Support NeoGAF

[Novum_Veritas]

Look at the Star Wars reveal. People were clinging to "in-engine" like it meant something. That game is never ever going to look like that trailer and yet people were losing their mind.

So people are at fault here because they believe in engine trailers are in-game trailers, so if we are honest here, people and the companies are both at fault here.
People believe reveal trailers are equal to the finished product, and companies show stuff which is early in development and cannot be run on a PS4 or XOne or even a normal home PC because it lacks optimization for this.
They render these on their in.house machines which are far beefier than any home PC could be.

 

[eot]

WTF IS THAT ON HIS EYES ?

this remind me of this

DON'T CLICK IF YOU DON'T WANT NIGHTMARES

Oh god, that's maybe the second worst thing ever that I shouldn't have clicked on.

 

[McHuj]

How can there be a Battlefront downgrade if that will be the first time the gameplay is shown?

Because DICE claimed that's what the game looks like.

I get that they can't reach the level that they want too, but it's a good thing that people take devs to task for this and not accept the marketing machine.

 

[piratethingy]

Ugh why are the ps4 and xb1 so weak... I want to build a new computer but there's probably not much point because it's starting to look like my 7850 is going to last another three years.

 

[Langdon Alger]

The game still looks great. The main character's animations look pretty stiff and robotic though.

 

[cripterion]

Well Just Cause 3 and the new Batman Arkham Knight are not released yet, so you can not fully say if they will get a little downgrade or not, you can only say a downgrade is there when you have the full finished product, Batman Arkham Knight and Just Cause 3 are not yet gold or finished, so these 2 are bad examples.

So the other games listed don't count? lol way to be selective.

You're right I can't say for sure about Arkham Knight and Just Cause 3 but Arkham games looked good before and they didn't showcase graphics that couldn't be done on current platforms, same with Just Cause.

Feel free to revisit this thread when the games are out and look like they were showcased in the trailers, my point was to show you that claiming " it is pretty hilarious that people still believe the first reveal trailers" is not so hilarious considering it's not an universal thing in this industry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8HVQXkeU8U

Another reveal that turned out just the same as the final game. So don't tell me it doesn't happen or that we should always be skeptical just because X did it.

 

[SaberEdge]

Don't forget "oh, put that is just not the same area" and 'different weather' like it's cool argument.

But those are absolutely legitimate points. It's unreasonable to compare different areas or different weather/lighting conditions and then make sweeping downgrade claims.

Funnily enough, it's actually the downgrade claims that have been shown to be false more often.

There were claims that the Igni sign had been downgraded, but then we find out that the signs have different strengths or different forms and the stronger Igni form is still in the game.

There were similar claims about water in the game no longer dynamically reacting to the Aard sign, but that too has mostly been shown to be untrue.

There were also claims that the game would "look nothing like that Sword of Destiny trailer" and yet with the release of each new bit of material that we can directly compare this is being shown to be false as well. Much of the material is essentially identical in terms of assets, with only differences in time of day to distinguish them, while a minority of other material shows lateral changes, a few minor downgrades and a few minor upgrades. The newer media for the game that we can compare most certainly does look quite a bit like the Sword of Destiny trailer.

 

[jett]

It's mind-boggling that people who claim they are tired of downgrade talks or don't wish to acknowledge it, would come post in THE thread that downgrade talk has been relegated to.

Some people have to justify their choices and purchases at all costs.

 

[Novum_Veritas]

So the other games listed don't count? lol way to be selective.

You're right I can't say for sure about Arkham Knight and Just Cause 3 but Arkham games looked good before and they didn't showcase graphics that couldn't be done on current platforms, same with Just Cause.

Feel free to revisit this thread when the games are out and look like they were showcased in the trailers, my point was to show you that claiming " it is pretty hilarious that people still believe the first reveal trailers" is not so hilarious considering it's not an universal thing in this industry

I was not selective, I know that the trailers with the 4 youtube links looked like the finished product, I certainly will revisit them, I'm also not sure what the in house circumstances are with each developer, not universal but pretty common as of today, sadly.

 

[Jonm1010]

No, people should use common sense really, the 1st thing with heavy downgrade was Watch_Dogs no?
People still think that reveal trailers are equal to the finished product, and now everyone is mad or at least most here are mad that the game was downgraded, I do not get it really.
I really think most people are just barely mad that again has lied in their faces again, and they fell for the same trick again, oh and I pre ordered it after the the E3 reveal in June 2014, I knew this would happen.

Again, you had the developers promising the final product would match the released footage. You then had everyone on gaf basically saying to trust CDprojekt red "look at their past, they don't lie" etc. etc.

Just because this has become the norm doesn't mean it should be accepted or people should sit back and just let it continue to happen without pushback.

 

[icecold1983]

HB lateral

 

[jet1911]

Damn

The guy you're quoting isn't exactly right.

 

[Galileo]

-snip-

I don't understand why no one is taking these pictures into consideration, it's baffling because they show exactly the same scene, unlike those in the OP

 

[Kalamari Rimbo]

I can write entire books about why I think CDPR downgraded it and why it's so frustrating for this to become an industry wide guideline but I'll just stick to simply saying I'm very disappointed. This has got to be one of the most noticable downgrades I've ever seen.

 

[Novum_Veritas]

Again, you had the developers promising the final product would match the released footage. You then had everyone on gaf basically saying to trust CDprojekt red "look at their past, they don't lie" etc. etc.

Just because this has become the norm doesn't mean it should be accepted or people should sit back and just let it continue to happen without pushback.

The problem is many developers promise to much, and customers buy into it, common sense should ring here and customers should ask themselves if this can be achieved.
This up roar is only been there because customers buy into the companies promises, if they would just wait for the final product or nearly finished footage, this wouldn't be the case.
I never said that anyone in here should trust any company not even CD Project, just be skeptical and not buy into everything they show you.

 

[Einchy]

SaberEdge, most of the talk downgrade talk is directly in reference to when the game was first shown. No one is saying that EVERY single time a new trailer or screenshot came out that the game was downgraded.

By the way, how can you completely dismiss the comparisons from the reveal trailer because they had some compression or were at different times a day and all of your comparisons that you are posting are from different times of day and with compression.

I really do not know why you're defending such obvious downgraded. It's really beyond me.

Even the people who say they don't give a fuck about downgrades are at least admitting that the game looks worse than it did when it was first shown.

 

[cripterion]

I was not selective, I know that the trailers with the 4 youtube links looked like the finished product, I certainly will revisit them, I'm also not sure what the in house circumstances are with each developer, not universal but pretty common as of today, sadly.

The problem is many developers promise to much, and customers buy into it, common sense should ring here and customers should ask themselves if this can be achieved.
This up roar is only been there because customers buy into the companies promises, if they would just wait for the final product or nearly finished footage, this wouldn't be the case.
I never said that anyone in here should trust any company not even CD Project, just be skeptical and not buy into everything they show you.

Ok fair enough

It's hard to tell which is which I agree, I linked you the BF4 reveal but somehow I doubt the SW Battlefront reveal will look like that so I see where you are coming from.

 

[Jonm1010]

The problem is many developers promise to much, and customers buy into it, common sense should ring here and customers should ask themselves if this can be achieved, this up roar is only been there because customers buy into the companies promises, it they would just wait for the final product or nearly finished footage, this wouldn't be the case. I never said that anyone in here should trust any company not even CD Project, just be skeptical and not buy into everything they show you.

The fault will always primarily lie with the one deceiving not the ones deceived.

This goes double when the one guilty of deception is an accredited company releasing a product to customers based in part around a deception.

 

[FATALITY]

Funny how CD Projekt RED gets a pass but Ubisoft gets all the flak.

do i need to tell how much pc gamers hate ubisoft?

 

[Kama_1082]

It's mind-boggling that people who claim they are tired of downgrade talks or don't wish to acknowledge it, would come post in THE thread that downgrade talk has been relegated to.

They wouldn't DARE bad mouth CDPR

 

[Genio88]

The downgrade is pretty noticeable and clear, i remember the downgrade-gate about Watch Dogs, while seems like nobody really cares about The Witcher 3 downgrade, i guess Ubisoft isn't as loved as CD Project here

 

[Frillen]

There's no doubt that the game has a downgrade, but it's not going to take my enjoyment of the game away from me.

 

[Novum_Veritas]

Ok fair enough

It's hard to tell which is which I agree, I linked you the BF4 reveal but somehow I doubt the SW Battlefront reveal will look like that so I see where you are coming from.

Seen that link, thanks for that, one other odd thing is, BF4 or Battlefront are action shooters, The Witcher 3 is an open world game, it is really hard to distinguish between the performance between open world and between ego shooter maps. But lets see what DICE will show and how it will look

 

[cripterion]

do i need to tell how much pc gamers hate ubisoft?

We're not a hivemind.

 

[| Praxis |]

After watching a few videos of this I'm still unsure why people are hyped. It's doing nothing for me sadly. That downgrade is very noticeable as well.

Medieval fantasy is the new ww2 shooter.

 

[d9b]

That is a downgrade alright, there's no denying it.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

Wanted to point this picture that's not in the OP but is from the album where all the images in the OP come from.

Granted, this isn't the best comparison but if you've been keeping up with the game and have seen the media that CDPR has put out, you know for a fact that nothing even comes close to the bottom screenshot.

Look at the HUD, the compression on that picture is fucking horrible.

This thread is a ridiculous creation until people actually have the game and can capture ultra settings at full 1080p.

 

[CryptiK]

I don't understand why no one is taking these pictures into consideration, it's baffling because they show exactly the same scene, unlike those in the OP

Look at the vegetation in each of the screenshots. Vegetation got a huge downgrade. Anyone who says otherwise is blind.

 

[Novum_Veritas]

The fault will always primarily lie with the one deceiving not the ones deceived.

This goes double when the one guilty of deception is an accredited company releasing a product to customers based in part around a deception.

Well I'm more interested how much people will complain when the game is released on consoles and PC, if people will even say they want something in exchange for the lies CD Project showed to them, also curious if CD Project will gave a statement why many things had to be downgraded. So you mean that companies are at fault and the customers are only the deceived ones? As I said the companies do only things which are accepted by the customer, what the customer want to see, so both are at fault not only one participant.

 

[Tenebrous]

The downgrade is pretty noticeable and clear, i remember the downgrade-gate about Watch Dogs, while seems like nobody really cares about The Witcher 3 downgrade, i guess Ubisoft isn't as loved as CD Project here

I think the difference is people on all platforms were disappointed by Watch_Dogs visually. Perhaps it was because the generation was relatively new and people expected a bit too much from their current-gen consoles, or maybe the big thing was the E3 settings being hidden away... Whatever the case, it attracted flak from all platforms.

This is only really attracting hate from PC gamers, and rightly so. Having things like LOD and texture quality on parity with the PS4/X1 is pretty laughable considering how much CDPR have been bigging up the PC version, firmly stating they're a PC company, and whatever else.

I purchased the game on 07/06/2014 according to Steam (day one it went up for sale), and I'm sure I'll still enjoy it, but I'm very disappointed in CDPR.

 

[Des0lar]

Wanted to point this picture that's not in the OP but is from the album where all the images in the OP come from.

Granted, this isn't the best comparison but if you've been keeping up with the game and have seen the media that CDPR has put out, you know for a fact that nothing even comes close to the bottom screenshot.

Why are people using this as an example? Everything in the first picture is terrible, compression artifacts, low resolution....

Why can't we wait with direct comparisons until we have ultra setting 1080p /4k pics?

 

[shadowsdarknes]

You think this is a joke ?

People have built computers in anticipation for this game. There are dudes that post in this very forum that splashed $2000 to make sure they have the adequate hardware to enjoy what was promised so far.
So, yes, CDPR lied and they should be at least ashamed for that. In the US you sue people for shit like this.

I literally don't feel the slightest shred of sympathy because someone went out and bought an expensive PC to play a game that far away from seeing the final build.

I'm not saying CDPR should have misled, but your sympathy card isn't really doing it for me.

 

[Head.spawn]

I've been holding out hope that there is some magical tick box hidden in the menus of the PC version that would make it look looked the original reveal, that people keep forgetting to click. But I guess I'm just in denial; it doesn't seem to be the case. Some of assets are just completely different and not a matter of resolution, shaders or anything that can be enhanced.

Here's hoping the game is at least good.

 

[Ostinatto]

I can write entire books about why I think CDPR downgraded it and why it's so frustrating for this to become an industry wide guideline but I'll just stick to simply saying I'm very disappointed. This has got to be one of the most noticable downgrades I've ever seen.

The most painful downgrade for me was onDSII:

 

[cripterion]

After watching a few videos of this I'm still unsure why people are hyped. It's doing nothing for me sadly. That downgrade is very noticeable as well.

Medieval fantasy is the new ww2 shooter.

I'm hyped because the game still looks damn good, in terms of gameplay and graphics, and I like open world RPG's.

Some people have a hard time understanding we can be critical of a game while still very much looking forward to play it, it seems.

I think the difference is people on all platforms were disappointed by Watch_Dogs visually. Perhaps it was because the generation was relatively new and people expected a bit too much from their current-gen consoles, or maybe the big thing was the E3 settings being hidden away... Whatever the case, it attracted flak from all platforms.

This is only really attracting hate from PC gamers, and rightly so. Having things like LOD and texture quality on parity with the PS4/X1 is pretty laughable considering how much CDPR have been bigging up the PC version, firmly stating they're a PC company, and whatever else.

I purchased the game on 07/06/2014 according to Steam (day one it went up for sale), and I'm sure I'll still enjoy it, but I'm very disappointed in CDPR.

There is some truth to that.
I think the consoles versions look great, they seem to have done well with the Xbox One version. When you see this footage of this game and compare it to say, Dead Rising 3, can't help but be amazed such a console could pull stuff like this.

The most painful downgrade for me was onDSII:

No wonder CDPR partnered with Namco for the EU physical release.

 

[GoldenCrow]

These threads are a bit daft. People need to realise that promotional material before the game is complete is not indicative of the final product. Every developer has high targets and starts out seeing which of these they can hit if any but as the game nears completion various aspects usually have to be altered or reworked depending upon multiple factors, those primarily being stability and gameplay. Sometimes the entire game can be reworked as it wasn't hitting the goals. If you want to see gameplay prior to a games release then you are going to have to put up with work that is intended purely for promotional purposes and therefore not realistic in its depiction of the final product, usually what you are seeing pre-release is a vertical slice taking elements that are being worked on and fleshing them out in a consumer friendly manner, if they actually showed you how the game was looking it wouldn't be far off from the Mass Effect presentation at E3 last year.

 

[ohyouagain]

I literally don't feel the slightest shred of sympathy because someone went out and bought an expensive PC to play a game that far away from seeing the final build.

I'm not saying CDPR should have misled, but your sympathy card isn't really doing it for me.

So you've never bought a knife because you planned to buy butter.

You sympathy argument is hollow. It's not the "sympathy" factor that made me react to this this downgrade. It's the fact that there I and thousands of others were lied to. Repeatedly.
For instance, we were given opportunity to see the game running at Ultra settings way after we got incentives to buy the game itself. The GTX 970 bundle incentives for example. And this promotion action was a nice piece of shit put together by nVidia and CDPR to make us buy a graphics card that isn't what it was hailed to be and a game that isn't what it was hailed to be.

It is a serious issue.

 

[jett]

The most painful downgrade for me was onDSII:

I remember there being people defending and/or pretending there was no downgrade in DS2's case as well.

 

[Shengar]

The discussion of this thread isn't about how the graphical downgrade will affect the gameplay experience. Some perhaps will be affected, others won't. What worth to discuss and makes it an issue is the practice of over-promising and false advertising. I always believe that many publishers being too hard to hyping their game that isn't even on 75% completion yet, sending out information and advertising a game aspect that might be still subject to change in the final version. All of this downgrade in the past year, Dark Souls 2, Watch_Dog, and now The Witcher 3 should be a textbook example in video game industry PR handbook.

 

[Inkvoterad]

After watching a few videos of this I'm still unsure why people are hyped. It's doing nothing for me sadly. That downgrade is very noticeable as well.

Medieval fantasy is the new ww2 shooter.

Because CDPR is one of the few bigger studios that who's games world arent littered with shitty fetch filler shit and instead filled with choices that significantly alter the game and also manages to be pretty fucking cool with the consumers.

People keep comparing this to the ubisoft thing, but lets be fucking real here: Watch dogs had nothing but nice visuals. We all knew it was going to be the same ubisoft mess as every other game they've released in the later years. While i am indeed pissed that they have been so quiet with some of the downgrades (the grass, i'm iffy about other stuff but the grass took a hit, goddamn) there's still the fact that this is a game made by people who really enjoy making great rpgs. And that's why i'll be fine.

Spoiler

also lol at all these compressed to fuck pictures, atleast the Dks2 downgrade talk contained 720p pictures. Shit.

 

[Jonm1010]

Well I'm more interested how much people will complain when the game is released on consoles and PC, if people will even say they want something in exchange for the lies CD Project showed to them, also curious if CD Project will gave a statement why many things had to be downgraded. So you mean that companies are at fault and the customers are only the deceived ones? As I said the companies do only things which are accepted by the customer, what the customer want to see, so both are at fault not only one participant.

If you knowingly sell me a fake Rolex as if it were real at your jewelry store, one that had a reputation for being honest and clean unlike other jewelry places around town, both from a legal and ethical standpoint the business is primarily at fault.

To put them on equal ground in terms of blame is absurd. People rightfully trusted cd project red because of their reputation, guarantees and promises. Individual culpability is certainly in play, but it is weighted much, much lower in terms of fault in this situation.

 

[Shengar]

These threads are a bit daft. People need to realise that promotional material before the game is complete is not indicative of the final product. Every developer has high targets and starts out seeing which of these they can hit if any but as the game nears completion various aspects usually have to be altered or reworked depending upon multiple factors, those primarily being stability and gameplay. Sometimes the entire game can be reworked as it wasn't hitting the goals. If you want to see gameplay prior to a games release then you are going to have to put up with work that is intended purely for promotional purposes and therefore not realistic in its depiction of the final product, usually what you are seeing pre-release is a vertical slice taking elements that are being worked on and fleshing them out in a consumer friendly manner, if they actually showed you how the game was looking it wouldn't be far off from the Mass Effect presentation at E3 last year.

CDPR can get away with this if they don't promised will keep the graphic quality in an interview.
Again, try to put cosmetic on promotional trailer of an unfinished game for the sake of hyping and over promising is a shitty practice that needs to stop.

 

[Kama_1082]

Because CDPR is one of the few bigger studios that who's games world arent littered with shitty fetch filler shit and instead filled with choices that significantly alter the game and also manages to be pretty fucking cool with the consumers.

People keep comparing this to the ubisoft thing, but lets be fucking real here: Watch dogs had nothing but nice visuals. We all knew it was going to be the same ubisoft mess as every other game they've released in the later years. While i am indeed pissed that they have been so quiet with some of the downgrades (the grass, i'm iffy about other stuff but the grass took a hit, goddamn) there's still the fact that this is a game made by people who really enjoy making great rpgs. And that's why i'll be fine.

Spoiler

also lol at all these compressed to fuck pictures, atleast the Dks2 downgrade talk contained 720p pictures. Shit.

You still haven't played TW3, and you dont know if there's gonna be shitty filler quests.

 

[Kosh]

New screenshot. Downgrade confirmed.

/end circlejerk

 

[WetTreeLeaf]

Can we got some disgusting sharpening on the bottom one too, for comparison's sake.

 

[hohoXD123]

You think this is a joke ?

People have built computers in anticipation for this game. There are dudes that post in this very forum that splashed $2000 to make sure they have the adequate hardware to enjoy what was promised so far.
So, yes, CDPR lied and they should be at least ashamed for that. In the US you sue people for shit like this.

No one spends $2000 on a PC just for Witcher 3, they weren't planning to destroy their PCs after finishing the game.

 

[RPGam3r]

I care more about the final product, which still looks awesome!

 

[His Majesty]

You still haven't played TW3, and you dont know if there's gonna be shitty filler quests.

No but we have both the journalist and youtuber impressions. And they are pretty damn good.

 

[Kama_1082]

No but we have both the journalist and youtuber impressions. And they are pretty damn good.

I rest my case.

 

[Novum_Veritas]

If you knowingly sell me a fake Rolex at your jewelry store, one that had a reputation for being honest and clean unlike other jewelry places around town, both from a legal and ethical standpoint the business is primarily at fault.

To put them on equal ground in terms of blame is absurd. People rightfully trusted cd project red because of their reputation, guarantees and promises. Individual culpability is certainly in play, but it is weighted much, much lower in terms of fault in this situation.

So why do people trust companies anyway? They want to sell the product for a high price to the consumer, it is not an uncommon method to sell you something and leave things out which have been advertised, one of the reasons there are a lot of law suits, because as of today companies promise you something which the product doesn't have and falls under false advertising.
So if people are that angry because of the downgrade, why not starting a petition for that?
Was there a petition for Watch_Dogs? So business seems always at fault and the customer is the one which was betrayed, problem is, you as a customer you have the duty to use your common sense and to question things.
Your example is the Rolex, the jewelry store sells me a "fake" Rolex for say $200, you as a customer should say this cannot be right, same equals to companies which show you the best graphics in the reveal trailers, it cannot be achieved especially when a game with an open world setting, because this is heavy on the GPU and CPU, it could not run on your machine with the same graphics like you have been shown in the 1st reveal trailer. I know the method of this is shady, but you as a customer have to question yourself, especially if you want to reward such methods or just boycott it.