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[Tovarisc]

Because the game went gold long ago, and we have footage of the final product. isn't that anough?

Isn't "long ago" like 2-3 weeks and as far I know we haven't seen footage from retail PC version on Ultra settings, we have seen footage from early console copies tho.

Build played by youtubers was, according devs, pre-gold and old build. What ever that means in terms of weeks.

Yikes, well maybe offer a slider for the threshold when those LOD's activate or something if that's possible =/

Like DieH@rd said they bake LOD values right into assets. In order to have multiple LOD settings you would need multiple versions of the assets which most likely would cause size of the game to skyrocket.

I think in one interview dev said that all platforms will use same assets with same LOD values. Is it bad thing or forgivable considering their team size and budget? Depends who you ask from.

How can there be a Battlefront downgrade if that will be the first time the gameplay is shown?

DICE dev said that Battlefront do and will look like that released in-engine? video.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

first bloodborne and now witcher 3... it's always like this.

Bloodborne? What? The game looks exactly the same as it did at Gamescom last year.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

The sad thing is this target render didn't even look that amazing. It was nowhere like PS3 Motorstorm CGI. It seemed like a nice achievable leap from Rockstar RDR.

I would have expected an engine built for next gen shaders and running through today's $999 GPU and $999 CPU to look just as nice. Just what is holding back today's realtime graphics?

Manpower?
Time, money to work on these highres assets?

Probably scalability with lower end hardware. That would be my guess

 

[Jedi2016]

The "work in progress" argument doesn't really fly, IMO. You would not have wanted to see what the game actually looked like in 2013. Low-poly assets, mostly missing textures, zero lighting, 12fps, half-finished or completely missing animations... would the "work in progress" sticker really have settled your nerves over how it was going to look?

Is the argument here over the simple existence of the "downgrade", or CDPR's reaction to the accusation? Because the simple truth of the matter is that what we saw in 2013 was just a CGI target render. No more, no less. Maybe it was even done in-engine, but as the game itself was nowhere near that condition at the time, it's still pre-rendered. The same thing that everyone else does. There's not a single developer in the world that has a game fully playable, with that level of fidelity and optimization, two full years before release. If you honestly believed that was 100% in-game footage, you should probably see someone about your state of delusion.

If CDPR came out tomorrow and said "Yeah, we thought we could get it looking like that, but we couldn't quite hit the mark. But, the game still kicks ass and we think everyone will really enjoy it.", would you all shut up or would you keep bitching just to hear the sound of your own voice?

 

[Gaz_RB]

This is especially annoying. I thought the first demo looked completely achievable on next gen hardware, at worst, on a powerful PC. But nope, Ubi failed.

I think the trend in bullshot now days is to show seemingly possible videos ingame and downgrade from there.

I feel like that's always been how it is. I remember comparing Gameinformer preview shots to gameplay and being real disappointed. Bullshotting has been the standard forever, whether in screenshot or video form.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

At least tell me the fur is still this good for the next gen wolf.

 

[Tovarisc]

Is there a review embargo or anything on W3? Would a downgrade have come to light before release if there were no leaks?

Embargo ends on May 12th, but there also is literally hours of gameplay released by CDPR itself and many many youtubers who got to play and record up to 12 hours. It's not like CDPR has been hiding current state of games graphics.

 

[Phinor]

damn I hate downgrades, why not just show a game the way its gonna release?

Because if they did that, the first gameplay video would have been shown only earlier this year just in advance of the final release. If you are going for demanding visuals, it's impossible to know where exactly you end up 2-3 years in advance especially when the new consoles were still in development when the game was taking shape. They could start with crap visuals and improve over time but that would be couple of years of negativity around the game, people complaining about how terrible it looked when it was first announced.

There's no winning scenario here if you want to show the game earlier than some months before release when major optimizations are done.

 

[JordanKZ]

At least tell me the fur is still this good for the next gen wolf.

Assuming you have a powerful assed PC, nVidia's HairWorks is still in there, I believe.

 

[SaberEdge]

Except a lot of the things people are pointing out have nothing to do with resolution. The grass example quoted last page is simply a different asset. Doesn't matter what res your gif is at; those assets are completely different. It went from amazing individual stalks of wheat to grass-brush we've had since Crysis.

The grass thing is interesting. The vast majority of comparisons are between the grass in that one very small village scene and the typical short grass seen in a lot of areas in the new footage.

But it's not like we saw Geralt ride through miles of that kind of grass in the old trailers. We've already seen different types of grass and herbs in certain locations. The grass in that village scene might simply be a different localized arrangement. I notice, too, that the yellow flowers and taller wheat-looking grass is present in other parts of the game in newer footage.

I do think the base "short grass" in that village scene looks better than the base short grass in the newer footage, but I think a lot of that has to do with the color difference and sharpness. It seems there was more color variation in the older grass, while the new grass is more of one solid color. I have no idea why they would make such a change because the colors would have zero impact on performance and could really enhance the look of the ground foliage. Luckily this is pretty easy to change and I suspect it will be one of the first things modded in the game.

I see words like massive and huge downgrade being thrown around like it's the truth. Neogaf and hyperbolic statements to the extreme never cease to stop around here.

Yep, all I can do is shake my head at the absurdity of it all.

 

[hohoXD123]

People need to realise that every game gets downgraded from trailers etc. They are only to hype people up with amazing graphics that we will never gonna see in final product.

Not really, a lot of the PS4 exclusives for example weren't downgraded and in some cases even surpassed their early in-game footage. It's not just an inevitable part of the games industry.

 

[Cachuli]

Bloodborne was downgraded?

imo a little bit

 

[Turin Turambar]

so, how come pc versions get downgraded too? i understand problems here or there and changes that need to be made to scale the game properly, but a lot of this stuff reeks of devs showing shit off that they know they won't be able to achieve when the time comes

Because in pratical terms, it's already freaking hard to finish properly one version of the game. They delayed the game two times, I'll remember you. Having to do two versions of the game, with different effects, geometry, textures, etc, would mean more than half a year of delay. A delays mean for a company not only time, but money (extra time of development you have to pay).

And you have to consider that computers don't have infinite power. People say "...but pcs" as if pcs could run anything you want. Nope.
You can't release a product designed around the few guys who have 980s. Your game also needs to run in computers with a $150 gpu. And in computers that maybe are three years old. In other words, optimization and downgrades are also beneficial for the pc version in the way the increase the market segment is directed to.

I mean, some of the stuff seen in the old trailers give me the feeling it would run at 25 fps in a modern pc.

 

[Totobeni]

This is especially annoying. I thought the first demo looked completely achievable on next gen hardware, at worst, on a powerful PC. But nope, Ubi failed.

I think the trend in bullshot now days is to show seemingly possible videos ingame and downgrade from there.

I still think Watch Dogs easily possible on PC, but the fact is PC is not the only platform they aim and Ubi perhaps did not want the PC version to look completely different than the console version (why else will Ubi disable PC ports graphic options), Witcher 3 maybe in the same situation (and I think that PC high end GPUs can handle Witcher 3 before the downgrade with no problems)

 

[tuxfool]

Bloodborne? What? The game looks exactly the same as it did at Gamescom last year.

As does the witcher 3...

 

[Primethius]

The grass thing is interesting. The vast majority of comparisons are between the grass in that one very small village scene and the typical short grass seen in a lot of areas in the new footage.

But it's not like we saw Geralt ride through miles of that kind of grass in the old trailers. We've already seen different types of grass and herbs in certain locations. The grass in that village scene might simply be a different localized arrangement. I notice, too, that the yellow flowers and taller wheat-looking grass is present in other parts of the game in newer footage.

I do think the base "short grass" in that village scene looks better than the base short grass in the newer footage, but I think a lot of that has to do with the color difference and sharpness. It seems there was more color variation in the older grass, while the new grass is more of one solid color. I have no idea why they would make such a change because the colors would have zero impact on performance and could really enhance the look of the ground foliage. Luckily this is pretty easy to change and I suspect it will be one of the first things modded in the game.



Yep, all I can do is shake my head at the absurdity of it all.

You can watch the high-quality Sword of Destiny trailer and look at various scenes in which the grass looks better. It's not contained to one scenario.

 

[silva1991]

imo a little bit

Night time is still in the game. and it doesn't look like the one in the gif


this is the very first long game play video shown of the game


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWId6_Pemck

 

[crazyrabbits]

Is the argument here over the simple existence of the "downgrade", or CDPR's reaction to the accusation? Because the simple truth of the matter is that what we saw in 2013 was just a CGI target render. No more, no less. Maybe it was even done in-engine, but as the game itself was nowhere near that condition at the time, it's still pre-rendered. The same thing that everyone else does. There's not a single developer in the world that has a game fully playable, with that level of fidelity and optimization, two full years before release.

That's a problem with the industry in general, though - far too often it's revealed that the material that's being shown off is rendered/bullshot, and fans naturally lap it up. It's only natural to feel misled when a game comes out and it's not at that same fidelity.

Case in point, Watch Dogs. The PC ultra settings were there from the get-go, but were disabled ostensibly for parity's sake. I won't be surprised if that's the same case here.

 

[miDnIghtEr20C]

Not really, a lot of the PS4 exclusives for example weren't downgraded and in some cases even surpassed their early in-game footage. It's not just an inevitable part of the games industry.

Ha.. of course.

 

[Krusenstern]

Bloodborne was downgraded?

It wasn't. Maybe he's mistaking the lack of cinematic filters used in the trailers as downgrade. That's not a downgrade.

The lower resolution textures and flat lighting among other things in the Witcher 3 are a legit downgrade though.

imo a little bit

This is a different time of day. No downgrade. Go back during the night and it will look exactly like this.

 

[Vamphuntr]

Is there a review embargo or anything on W3? Would a downgrade have come to light before release if there were no leaks?

It's a very popular and hyped AAA game. I doubt most review outlets are going to risk not getting review copies or getting blacklisted for doing a negative preview. Considering what happened with GMG they seem to be rather petty so it might be a wise decision.

I'm just hoping the PC version will look great. My stance on the game is changing a lot depending on the screens. Some of the screens released in the last few months sometimes looked no better than DAI while other looked much better. There seem to be major difference in graphical qualities between areas so there still might be "impressive" area in the game.

 

[zufuel]

https://youtu.be/mUvJ-FcyMHs

 

[Stampy]

This is worse than Ubisoft pulled with Watchdogs, just goes to show how important is winning the favors of gamers.

Wow, this gif really shows it. :/

 

[krizzx]

Not really, a lot of the PS4 exclusives for example weren't downgraded and in some cases even surpassed their early in-game footage. It's not just an inevitable part of the games industry.

Which ones surpassed their early in game footage?

https://youtu.be/mUvJ-FcyMHs

I'm not sure what exactly this is supposed to be demonstrating. Could you elaborate?

I'm seeing different lighting and hair texturing, but they look mostly the same to me. outside of the shoulder armor.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Which ones surpassed their early in game footage?



I'm not sure what exactly this is supposed to be demonstrating. Could you elaborate?

I think the GIF is meant to emphasize how lighting as changed. At the very least. Armor changed as well so not sure if that's textures?

 

[Psychological Intellect]

You're really exegerating here.
110% would be more these.

Yes, I'm actually comparing the same scenes at the same time of the day while the OP didn't do it for Witcher 3.

lmao. the uncharted 3 one isn't a downgrade. It's literally a prerendered cutscene but they changed the time of day. Chloe's model is exactly the same.

 

[krizzx]

I think the GIF is meant to emphasize how lighting as changed. At the very least. Armor changed as well so not sure if that's textures?

Yeah, I noticed the lighting and the armor difference. I was wondering if their was something that was suppose to correlate it to the current downgrade issue. The difference between those two look more like design tweeks outside of the shoulder armor and lighting.

They turned the mesh from vertical to horizontal.

 

[tuxfool]

https://youtu.be/mUvJ-FcyMHs

Still really bad quality, but it would be great if more comparisons were in this vein.

 

[zufuel]

Which ones surpassed their early in game footage?



I'm not sure what exactly this is supposed to be demonstrating. Could you elaborate?

I'm seeing different lighting and hair texturing, but they look mostly the same to me. outside of the shoulder armor.

I? nothing, thought I could contribute something. I will enjoy in PC and console

All this seems absurd, but the thread is about this and just wanted to bring something

 

[cripterion]

Just looking at it is enough to set me off unfortunately. *Shivers*

Pardon my ignorance, but what is it supposed to be? Isn't that elaborate makeup?

 

[krizzx]

I? nothing, thought I could contribute something. I will enjoy in PC and console

All this seems absurd, but the thread is about this and just wanted to bring something

Oh, alright. I thought I was missing something.

 

[Oni Jazar]

People should get used to this. These games are being designed on hardware that is way more powerful than either console and then made to work on them. I don't think it's misrepresentation because stuff shown at e3 are clearly a work in progress

Why should we get used to it? How about devs show what they're working with not imaginary target renders. Consoles have nothing to do with this. We're talking about how it looks on Ultra PC.

 

[Raven77]

My question is, did they deceptively make it look better than they knew they could to drive pre-orders or were the old pics / videos a target that they just weren't able to hit.

One is acceptable to me as a consumer...the other is not.

 

[hohoXD123]

Which ones surpassed their early in game footage?



I'm not sure what exactly this is supposed to be demonstrating. Could you elaborate?

I'm seeing different lighting and hair texturing, but they look mostly the same to me. outside of the shoulder armor.

I believe Killzone was one of them, particularly in the forest area.

My question is, did they deceptively make it look better than they knew they could to drive pre-orders or were the old pics / videos a target that they just weren't able to hit.

One is acceptable to me as a consumer...the other is not.

The fact that the review embargo is a week before release makes me think it's probably not the former.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

imo a little bit

Those are completely different times of day. You can still fight the Cleric Beast at Night, but given how early it is in the game, a lot of people stumble across it during the early evening time frame.

 

[tuxfool]

Why should we get used to it? How about devs show what they're working with not imaginary target renders. Consoles have nothing to do with this. We're talking about how it looks on Ultra PC.

Can you prove that they didn't have segments of the game looking like that?

 

[Derp]

My question is, did they deceptively make it look better than they knew they could to drive pre-orders or were the old pics / videos a target that they just weren't able to hit.

One is acceptable to me as a consumer...the other is not.

The first one. The fact that they promised us that there was absolutely no downgrade should tell you that.

 

[SaberEdge]

This game has been struggling ever since they showed that preview of him walking around outside the town in the fielded area. The distance LOD was atrocious then, so this isn't anything new. I mentioned back then (like 6 months ago) why is it so difficult for games to have textures that look like this:

instead of:

This isn't the only game that's guilty of this. If fucking Unreal Tournament 2003 can run 2048x2048 grass/tree/bush/wall shrubery textures with full 0-255 transparency levels all at once handily, why can't a brand new sophisticated game engine? At least have the option, especially an option for texture detail in distant foliage LOD levels.

Probably because there's several hundred times more foliage being rendered on screen at any given moment.

 

[Ghostmaster]

Why should we get used to it? How about devs show what they're working with not imaginary target renders. Consoles have nothing to do with this. We're talking about how it looks on Ultra PC.

Why would they stop? This is obviously working for them. While the hardcore starts to hype the game based on prerenders some of that hype spreads to the casual gaming crowd, and that crowd is more numerous and more lenient than the hardcore crowd. As long as the game is good they will get away with it and earn more money than they would if they were honest.

 

[Fordfx2]

At least tell me the fur is still this good for the next gen wolf.

Hot Damn! Look at that tessellation!

 

[cripterion]

Oh, I didn't mean the game looks bad at all. It was more of a question as to why I'm not hyped. I have steadily been less and less interested in open world RPG's, especially medieval fantasy based ones. Not sure if it's an age thing or what, but it's worrying because I would have loved this in my teens. The game looks good, why am I uninterested? Admittedly I had the same problems with the second game for the same reasons.

The downgrade is noticeable though, but not a disaster. It still looks great visually.

I personally coulnd't finish the first game, I found it subpar and I cleared the Witcher 2 once, (Iorveth path) and didn't feel compelled to replay it again cause the gameplay wasn't really good.

This seems on another level though, so I'm still hyped about it but not as much as when I first saw the SOD trailer.

 

[Tovarisc]

The first one. The fact that they promised us that there was absolutely no downgrade should tell you that.

Yet same time there is hours of footage from builds that are very close to gold build kinda shows you that they haven't been hiding the game. Is it lie if they say "There is no downgrade, VGX trailer can be replicated in final game" and it can't be done? Yes it's, but then none of us have played final game on Ultra settings.

I give small benefit of doubt there, but for now I assume that statement from them is false.

 

[Primethius]

Here are some better captures from the Sword of Destiny trailer, especially in regards to foliage:

It's clear that the game didn't get downgraded across the board. Just certain things, while others were upgraded. No need to paint a picture of of this massive downgrade across the board where none exists.

 

[CouchMaster]

Oh god not that UC3 image again.

 

[SaberEdge]

Agreed. The console versions, for what they are, are looking pretty damn impressive. It's just the PC version which appears to be a letdown from a technical standpoint.

Huh? There seems to be the same basic gulf in graphics and performance that we typically see between console and PC versions of multiplats.

Good post.
I am curious about after release comparisons - seeing how locations changed will be interesting - but comparisons such as the one in OP are worthless.

I fully agree.

 

[zufuel]

Oh, alright. I thought I was missing something.

This already looks amazing.

I wish it were as shown for the first time? of course, but that will not happen. I think once in front of our screens of all this, no matter

 

[Einchy]

Here are some better captures from the Sword of Destiny trailer, especially in regards to foliage:


It's clear that the game didn't get downgraded across the board. Just certain things, while others were upgraded. No need to paint a picture of of this massive downgrade across the board where none exists.

Why are you ignoring the 2013 trailer? That's where the massive downgrades happened.

 

[Ridesh]

Here are some better captures from the Sword of Destiny trailer, especially in regards to foliage:


It's clear that the game didn't get downgraded across the board. Just certain things, while others were upgraded. No need to paint a picture of of this massive downgrade across the board where none exists.

But the Sword of Destiny trailer seems to be as fake in terms of graphics as the VGX 2013 trailer.

 

[Primethius]

Why are you ignoring the 2013 trailer? That's where the massive downgrades happened.

Didn't have that trailer downloaded in higher quality to screencap the foliage.

 

[Krusenstern]

Here are some better captures from the Sword of Destiny trailer, especially in regards to foliage:


It's clear that the game didn't get downgraded across the board. Just certain things, while others were upgraded. No need to paint a picture of of this massive downgrade across the board where none exists.

I don't know. I can't point out a single thing that looks better in the recent footages. The stuff we see in the Sword of Destiny trailer is on another level graphically.
Not only does the foliage look better. The lighting looks much better and not as flat in the new gameplay vids.

And compare the draw distance. Far away mountains and woods on the horizon look way more detailed.