Witcher 3 downgrade arguments in here and nowhere else
- Thread starter Jigolo
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Zeouterlimits
Member
That would be kind of terrible, it would probably mean more CG "concept" trailers.
Fixed?
viveks86
Member
It seems the reviews are all based on the PS4 version, so I guess the downgrade debate is going to stick around for another week at least.
Kinda weird considering the marketing deal was with MS.
stabiliser
Neo Member
Yeah that worked really well for Battlefront and EA. We give them shit for not showing anything but we do not want to accept than when they show something it might not be what the finished product will look like.
Up until last week people were complaning that there is no PS4 footage for the witcher, saying things like its inexcusable and everybody should be outraged. But when they show stuff form ther unfinished product we give them shit because their is screen tearing and framerate drops. And if they make an educated guess and show footage of what they think the game will look like and it ends up looking different it is an inexcusable downgrade.
I wonder, what would be the right course of action, it seems to me that you can only lose in this game.
God I hope so. It would make for some amazing popcorn threads.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Is there something like regional marketing ? Conan o'Brien showed the Xbox One package.
The Dutch Slayer
Member
sooooo goooodGave me a chuckle
viveks86
Member
I think the deal isn't all encompassing. They seem to have locked them in for retail/TV adverts and bundles only. Besides, may be the xbox version has taken longer to optimize so they couldn't send out copies on time. Who knows. But the scarcity of footage and the fact that it is being reviewed on PS4 will not do MS any favors in terms of marketing buzz.
OmegaDL50
Member
And this is why we don't deserve to get nice things.
Fahrenheit
Banned
Didn't they let people pick? Most review sites are gonna pick PS4 since it's more powerful then Xbox and not PC since it's so hard to nail down technical aspects of a review for a PC version.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
You... I like you.
viveks86
Member
Don't know if that's the case here. People were "sent" review copies and they only received the PS4 version. Gamespot sounded like they weren't able to review the PC version because they never received it. I wonder if at least the PC gaming sites would get the PC version
RobbieNick
Junior Member
Anyone who's interested, the Witcher 2 is on sale for $3 on Steam right now until 10 am (pacific) tomorrow.
Look,all I'm saying is if a game is announced and shown ~2 months before release I would be fine with that
Fahrenheit
Banned
Really? The way the tweets from gamespot came off to me was they could pick. But maybe that was between Ps4 and Bone. Assuming they be to worried about the PC version leaking with all the files needed to run.
viveks86
Member
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Nope, the man focus was bugfixing and polishing. Considering CDP Red past games history with enhanced editions and some other recent games that were a disaster on release, it's not a surprise that Witcher 3 got delayed twice.
I'm not saying the game looks bad or anything, it looks great but not as good as the VGX trailer.
This is just speculation on my side:
The VGX trailer was most likely a vertical slice, where only a part or parts of the open world was done.
The Downgrade happened because of the large map size. They had an interview a year ago (after the first delay news), where they said that the game was barely running (performance wise) and they didn't know how to fix it, they must have done the whole world map by then.
They finally got it fixed with the Umbra 3 technology, but due to that and the map size the quality got noticeably reduced (seeing on e3). I still don't know why they keep saying that there is no downgrade though, I mean it is clearly visible, regardless if the game looks great now or not. They shouldn't have made so many promises back then.
About the VGX trailer: I am not sure, but I think they said that the trailer was made in a hurry due to them being nominated (Spike Video Game Awards).
So if they hadn't been there on VGX, we probably wouldn't even have seen the trailer, at least not by that quality we got.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
I'd prefer the latter
Cave Johnson
Member
Or maybe, just maybe, you release a product that accurately represents your promotional material! GOW3 did it and most recently TO: 1886. Hell, the promotional trailer for TO was "targetted footage"!
Just think, if the scenario provided by the latter in context of KZ2 and Motorstorm when they clearly failed to deliver on that target render. Here we have a game that had one showcased 2 years before the release, had their visuals questioned in no less of a degree than what we see here, and, in all irony, delivered on the visual package despite the lackluster aspects that was already being anticipated. Hence, the focus no longer is about the visuals but the other aspects instead. This discussion clearly entails the reverse obviously not taking to heart the source of the issue.
So you guys think Zelda will be downgraded too?
I don't know that Nintendo really has a history of downgrading their games. I could be wrong, but they don't really have a precedent for doing that.
Here'a another example I was looking at, of foliage being hit hard. Pay attention to the grass and distant trees in these clips. Different times of day I realize, but the quality is drastically different.
Newer gameplay
Older gameplay
The top image still looks great, no denying that, but the grass and foliage on the bottom image is ridiculously full. There's hardly any blank patches of dirt and the detail on the trees down the hill, and quanity of them is certainly better. Again I'm not saying the top gif doesn't look great, but its for sure not the same level of detail as the bottom one.
You're still comparing two different locations. Is it too much to ask that people make statements based on accurate comparisons.
Sounds like a realistic analysis. I doubt it all came down to map size, but that's a good marker for how they probably encountered big challenges at various milestones throughout production.
And I bet the game will look great even if it's been bumped down a notch from 'super fidelity'. The main thing is it plays well and it's well designed.
Grabbed it. Won't get to it for months though due to my backlog.
Here'a another example I was looking at, of foliage being hit hard. Pay attention to the grass and distant trees in these clips. Different times of day I realize, but the quality is drastically different.
Newer gameplay
Older gameplay
The top image still looks great, no denying that, but the grass and foliage on the bottom image is ridiculously full. There's hardly any blank patches of dirt and the detail on the trees down the hill, and quanity of them is certainly better. Again I'm not saying the top gif doesn't look great, but its for sure not the same level of detail as the bottom one.
Too many differing variables in that gif IMO
Unless that older gameplay implied the game was going to constantly look like that at all times of day etc., I don't consider it a fair comparison. Is it for certain supposed to be the same area?
I'd say a slightly fairer comparison would be to this clip right here.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
The game still looks the same as it does in the 35 minute demo, yes.
I don't think that would be a wise financial move from any company.
You need to build anticipation for your product, multiple stages of marketing etc. to reach the widest possible audience.
If you give something a two month window, its either make or break for the marketing, not everyone may be paying attention. You lose multiple bites at the cherry so to speak.
How do you think Witcher 3 would fair if they waited till last month do the reveal. Do you think they would have this many pre-orders, won most anticipated lists 2 years in a row, had journo and youtube events promoting the game, been on Conan etc etc.
What if in that two month window either Last Guardian, Fallout 4, the next Elder Scrolls was announced. Customer focus would be divided, maybe the game would be completely ignored, too risky I'm afraid, investment is way to high.
anothertech
Member
Reserving judgement till I see it in ultra at 60fps.
If there is that drastic difference, I hope someone can hack it to look like the 2012 trailer like they did with watchdogs lol
If there is that drastic difference, I hope someone can hack it to look like the 2012 trailer like they did with watchdogs lol
CyberPunked
Member
Not to sound like I'm bringing out my tinfoil hat. But every single thread on the Witcher forums which discusses either the visuals of the game or the potential downgrade, has been shut down/locked.
The reason they tend to be giving for locking the threads is that the threads go "off topic", which is a blatant lie.
I attempted to make a new downgrade specific thread last night, and made it very clear that the topic of the thread was the discussion and sharing of opinions of the apparent change in visual style, and graphical fidelity that the game went through during it's development. The thread was removed, not even locked, within an hour with no reason given.
The reason they tend to be giving for locking the threads is that the threads go "off topic", which is a blatant lie.
I attempted to make a new downgrade specific thread last night, and made it very clear that the topic of the thread was the discussion and sharing of opinions of the apparent change in visual style, and graphical fidelity that the game went through during it's development. The thread was removed, not even locked, within an hour with no reason given.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
There are videos at ultra and 60fps even with hairworks on.
OmegaDL50
Member
Well people said that Xenoblade X was downgraded before launch, however that did turn out to be false, as evidence based OT for the Japan release and the many images and streams for the game.
Also those Zelda pictures shown above are about as par as the stuff you see in Dragon Ball Xenoverse and generally any other Anime style 3D game with a properly well done cartoon shader applied.
I mean THIS is a PS3 game
The Wii U is supposedly slightly more powerful then the PS3 in terms of GPU hardware, so Ni No Kuni can look like that on the PS3, I really don't see any reason why Zelda U can't look like those images above.
I mean we've seen similar high quality anime-game footage from the Naruto Storm games from CC2, so it's not unfeasible for Zelda U to look like the the teaser footage when there are other games that are comparable with a similar cartoon shader.
Anyways, This is far more off topic than I want to be, back to The Witcher 3.
Yeah it is a tinfoil hattish thought. Maybe the title of this thread could give you some clues as to why it was removed?
viveks86
Member
So what do you think was downgraded in the 35 minute demo compared to SoD/VGX, other than foliage? Anything else specific or just "I'm not blown away, hence must be downgraded"? The latter is a fair answer too, but I just want someone to actually point out what is missing in that footage
That said, this one could be a first in my opinion. We've seen the second footage from it already and we could see the limits. They are a little too ambitious for the tech they have in my opinion. It's a crappy LOD fest. They are clearly putting the size of the map over the pretty gaphics. That first vid was the part where it looked good, it won't be downgraded in itself i guess, but lots of other parts won't look super pretty.
Sanctuary
Member
Never forget:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBtAvX4Pkyk
Technically not a preview of an actual Zelda game, but that demo is just about how everyone was expecting Celda to look.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
I don't really know, honestly. I had a look at the 35 minute gameplay video again and it looks exactly like the retail code. As I say, I think there was a clear downgrade, but it's been obvious for months as it kind of coincided with the art style change.
the_batman
Banned
who's forcing the devs to go for parity.
Jigolo
Member
You see its not about location here though. Its about the detail in the trees, foilage, grass, draw distance and lighting. All noticeably worse on the first gif
OmegaDL50
Member
I don't believe anyone is forcing a dev to go for parity. It's entirely a conscious decision to develop your game using the lowest power as a baseline rather developing at higher power and scaling down accordingly.
Darkstorne
Member
Yep, I can only assume the people who can't notice the difference don't pay attention to the finer details of visuals like some of us do.
It's also important to note that no-one in this thread is saying the game looks "bad" now. It still looks beautiful. It's just not as visually impressive, from a technical standpoint, as it was before. That's not an opinion - it's a fact. People can be perfectly entitled to say they don't mind the downgrade, and that it isn't much of a downgrade, but they can't pretend there isn't one.
I'm going to hope the modding community gets on board with this game, and we can recreate some grass textures that resemble the originals. I helped out a popular Skyrim mod called Skyrim Flora Overhaul by providing some high quality grass textures, and I'd happily do the same for The Witcher 3 if it's possible. SweetFX and (hopefully) ENB can easily restore this game's original colour palette for those that prefer it. Grass density will be the hard part...
So you guys think Zelda will be downgraded too?
Nintendo games don't get downgraded. I wish it would come on Wii U so everyone would see the game being like this or better.
DOWN
Banned
Why whould it not come on WiiU?
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