Ninja Scooter
Member
Didn't Khali Drogo basically do something similar in the first season?
More outrage at depiction of rape in Game of Thrones television show (spoilers)
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bengraven
Member
No one gave a shit about Dany being raped in episode 1 and 3 (or four?), but they were outraged that Cersei was raped. We only care if established characters are raped. Side characters are just some scullery maid or miller's daughter - eh.
D
Deleted member 1159
Unconfirmed Member
Not only does it make sense within the universe of the show, it's watered down compared to what happens to Jeyne Poole in the book. It's a shitty thing to happen to a character we all care about, but it wasn't out of place or gratuitous at all.
Pyramid head
Banned
Well, The scene with Cersei was, in the books, consensual sex. D&D decided to make it a rape scene on the show because, 'it felt right for Jaime to do that at that time' and 'remember, he's a character who pushed a boy out a window'. Fuck redemption eh? This rape, was something which happened to a different character in the book, but this time, D&D wanted a main character raped instead. Given that D&D other major additions to the story are basically loads and loads of scenes of tits, I think people may be becoming a bit weary.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I'm not opposed to her being raped, my problem is that they handled it poorly and have a history of using rape as nothing more than a shock beat for the show which is never explored again later. So they really don't get the benefit of the doubt here.
haha yeah everyone and their mom is making fun of the shitty xena warrior princess sand snake characters and that whole awful dorne plot. but someone complains about Sansa getting raped and it's all "What show do you think ur watching?" "that's just how it was back then (in this fictional fantasy world)!"
MHWilliams
Member
Nah. We literally have a thread of people dipping out of a movie because they dislike portrayal of the Joker. No one drops in there whinging about outage culture.
It's "outrage culture" when the person doesn't agree with the reasoning behind the dislike. It's a false construct. People don't like things all the time and are quite vocal about that dislike.
Idk why there's so much outrage,
what do people expect to happen on the wedding night of this.
Also, people point out that this is somehow killing Sansa as a character or making her look weak, but this could also be a huge part of how her character develops. Honestly, it's a little to early to think that this is "awful" by any means because we have no clue what any of the ramifications are.
hendersonhank
Member
Was she raped? She willingly married the guy and went to their bedchamber to consummate the wedding, and took off her clothes. She never protested, tried to get away, tried to push him away, or gave any indication of non-consent.
ReadingRambo
Member
In terms of stupid book deviations this is far less offensive than Barristan fucking Selmy dying to some scrub nobody in an alley. The books are full of rape for rapes sake, and the show has rarely shied away from some of the more brutal things in the book. No it wasn't Sansa, but many characters and arcs were consolidated.
Then maybe they shouldn't invent a scenario where this character is in a pre arranged marriage or show some consent from Sansa or have her get out of the scenario before the actual wedding!
I think I'm the only person that wants Ramsay Bolton to come out on top when this show is over and done with. Dude is quite the character.
I'll admit, I tittered.
bengraven
Member
Yeah, but "we knew they would fall in love eventually" and I'm sure we assured our concerned friends who haven't read the books...
Yeah, like I said in the other thread a couple days ago: it could have just ended with Theon being told to watch. Then you cut to black. If you want to and feel it's necessary then show the door and some quick screams. Then you show her the next day shaking and covered in bruises. Instead, they drew it out. They knew we were uncomfortable and you know Benioff was jerking off while editing the scene - not because it was sexually thrilling but because he gets a sexual thrill with making us uncomfortable.
KaiserBecks
Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this done by a guy who basically spent a whole season torturing another dude, leaving him both physically and emotionally crippled? Yeah, let's draw the line at "rape" though. Can't let the creators get away with that. Oh, the outrage.
Of course women don't have to be raped to grow stronger. What in the show even suggests that. They showed Sansa get married 3 times now where she avoided consomation the first 2 times. So this was a significant event her in particular. More to do with the fact she may realize being a pawn in these marriage schemes has a cost and she needs to begin acting for herself. Back in winterfell it's actually the perfect place for her to do that. I don't see how any of this is lazy in anyway besides people being sad that a fucked up thing happened to a liked character.
Is that really the case? From what I'm reading is it more like a character switch and the rape scene in the book was like twenty times more extreme and graphic. So they didn't add a scene, but rather replaced it.
In the books we didn't see it.
Ninja Scooter
Member
You didn't "see" it here either.
It doesn't really matter what Littlefinger would have or wouldn't have done. It matters what Sansa believed and what choice she made. Yes the whole thing is a manipulation and scheme by Littlefinger, but that doesn't preclude Sansa from also making a personal choice.
Phrozenflame500
Member
Not really offended, but I thought it just served to weaken Sansa's character further. First she's finally adopting Littlefinger's manipulative tendencies and given a cool badass new outfit... then she's used by him for his own ends, and then raped rather brutally with little resistance physically or verbally.
If you want to give Sansa some agency then give her some agency ffs.
If you want to give Sansa some agency then give her some agency ffs.
I'll boil and eat my shoes if so. There's 0 chance he's not redeemed.
Ah yes, the middle ages were nothing but dragons, ice zombies, shadow vagina assassins, and rape. Good job Game of Thrones!
ReadingRambo
Member
Don't forget he also made Theon a eunuch (and continually taunts him about it). Can you imagine the outrage if female genital mutilation was implied?
In the books he asked for her consent (you can argue whether or not a pre-teen can give consent).
In the books the savage barbarian asks for consent.
Cheat Code
Member
I would have liked this scene to just be Ramsay knifing Sansa in the belly over and over and see if the outrage was on the same level.
D
Deleted member 1159
Unconfirmed Member
Wait what? I just read that chapter a few days ago. Ramsay literally jams his fingers in Jeyne causing her pain, then tells Theon she's dry and commands him to go down on her. It's told from Theon's POV, it's not off page at all.
bengraven
Member
It's because it's a character we've seen since she was a little girl.
"I'm going to marry a prince in four years and be heppeh!"
PhoenixDark
Banned
Even the plot purpose is puzzling. Her character arc has come full circle with her moving from victim/prisoner to someone willing to play the game...yet here we are with her once again as a victim/prisoner. The plotting is inconsistent. Which goes back to D&D doing random shit to generate shock or drama, regardless of character development or plot. Jaime killing his cousin and raping his sister comes to mind.
graffix13
Member
I mean, the show didn't even have the balls to put us there with HER, we were there with Theon, which kind of makes it even more poorly executed.
freakzilla149
Banned
Come on man. It was rape. Did she look like she was doing it willingly? She had no choice in the matter.
On topic, people need to get a fucking grip. This is Ramsey Bolton we're talking about, he castrated Theon and turned him into a slave. There is no way it was going to end well for Sansa, and given Ramsey's depravity, I expected worse.
Damned if they do, damned if they don't?
evilromero
Member
I'm definitely behind big time. I don't believe I even made it halfway through season 3 yet.
On the topic, I'm kind of surprised that journalist even watched the show that far in.
ReadingRambo
Member
Think you need to check again. Dany didn't even know the language yet.
Moff
Member
I understand where this outrage comes from, it's not just that more rape was added to the show, we saw tons of girls getting raped and no one cared.
but here we saw a female character being abused for many years now, and just when they made us think she might finally be in control for once they punch us in the guts with this rape scene. it didn't even need to be shown directly, we only saw alfie allens expression, and he did hell of a job to make this even worse than showing it directly.
in a way, it was similar to the red wedding, where hopes were built up that the good guys would finally be on top, just to have them brutalized. only this time it is done with rape instead of cutting people open. i understand the reactions, but I still think the scene was well done and served it's purpose.
and let's just finish watching the season before we compplain about this scene having no meaning, not making sense, being fruitless or not furthering the plot.
but here we saw a female character being abused for many years now, and just when they made us think she might finally be in control for once they punch us in the guts with this rape scene. it didn't even need to be shown directly, we only saw alfie allens expression, and he did hell of a job to make this even worse than showing it directly.
in a way, it was similar to the red wedding, where hopes were built up that the good guys would finally be on top, just to have them brutalized. only this time it is done with rape instead of cutting people open. i understand the reactions, but I still think the scene was well done and served it's purpose.
and let's just finish watching the season before we compplain about this scene having no meaning, not making sense, being fruitless or not furthering the plot.
half a moon
Banned
Is there a list of differences? I didn't think they'd do something this different.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Yeah it was a bad episode but I was surprised at the reactions only because that scene wasn't even one of the top 10 most disturbing on this show. The one criticism I read after that I sort of agreed with was (I think) Andy greenwald who hated that they focused on Theon during the scene to try and sort of conflate his fear and dread with Sansa's. Theon has been through some shit but he's still a pretty reprehensible character.
SocksAndShoes
Banned
Bing. This whole season has been a giant clusterfuck with character development. I'm done watching and I'm gonna wait for the books to finish the story. See you guys in 2022.
This is her playing the game, it's part of the marriage that she is doing to regain control of the north. Perhaps if she becomes another one of Ramsay's toys in the following episodes, but we have yet to see.
Cersei's rape is a much better example of a stupid scene.
ReadingRambo
Member
Have you read the books?!
We literally know nothing that happens after this scene. To assume that this particular event is going to revert her to some helpless, weak child is absurd. Being a rape victim doesn't automatically equal being weak.
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