More outrage at depiction of rape in Game of Thrones television show (spoilers)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Is this not business as usual for Game of Thrones? I've not seen any of the latest season, but horrible things happening to nice people is pretty much the defining feature based on what I've watched.
 
it was so uncomfortable to watch yet if you consider what they actually showed in the scene which was very little

it sort of reminds me of good horror movies in which whats not shown is worse than the thing that is. Maybe this a similar version of this phenomenon is whats happening with people's outrage they imagine the worst possible thing in their minds making it a more provocative scene had they just explicitly shown what happened.
 
Yeah. Saw the scene. Don't get the big deal. Nothing was shown. It was all offscreen (the bad stuff only lasted maybe half a minute) and i'm sure this show has shown things far far more graphic and depraved.
 
Yaboosh said:
I still don't know how you can say depicting this rape has no purpose.
Click to expand...

It doesn't really develop the male character, who's already a very clear cut sadist. As for Sansa, they'd have to take a pretty different take on the series. It's just one more forced rape scene in a series already known for graphic scenes of dubious value.
 
I'm trying to comprehend what made people so angry about this particular rape scene. It's a fictional story.. Was it hard to watch? Sure. Was that the intention? Of course.
I've never heard of a pleasant rape scene in a movie or tv show. Rape's gonna be rape. Whether you have a castrated service boy watching or not. What show did these people think they were watching?
 
gatti-man said:
I don't get the outrage. That scene was absolutely logical if you have watched the show. She married him, the guy is totally sick, of course he's going to have sex with her and there is no way she would be willing. So it's rape.
Click to expand...

She married him
Click to expand...

It's already not logical in your first three words. She saw what a psychopath he was, she has no plan other than wait it seems, she knows Stannis is attacking and probably going to kill him, and she still married him? How is that logical? The outrage is because the only reason the character would agree to be put in that situation is if the writers wanted her raped for shock value.
 
Lothar said:
It's already not logical in your first three words. She saw what a psychopath he was, she has no plan other than wait it seems, she knows Stannis is attacking and probably going to kill him, and she still married him? How is that logical? The outrage is because the only reason the character would agree to be put in that situation is if the writers wanted her raped for shock value.
Click to expand...

It was either rape and putting on a brave face for a while or getting mutilated to death. What was the better alternative, Lothar?

grumble said:
It doesn't really develop the male character, who's already a very clear cut sadist. As for Sansa, they'd have to take a pretty different take on the series. It's just one more forced rape scene in a series already known for graphic scenes of dubious value.
Click to expand...

You say that as if anything in GoT has any value other than being entertaining. I love it to bits, but it's just as empty as most other plot driven sagas.
 
Agree with this reviewer

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat...thrones_was_necessary_and_sansa_deserves.html

Sansa’s life is still at risk in Bolton-dominated Winterfell, but she’s clearly playing at something bigger than simple survival now. It’s unclear whether she and Littlefinger have a plan, or if he simply betrayed her by telling Cersei where she is. But whatever happens, it’s clear that Sansa is actively shaping her own future: She refused Brienne’s rescue, and refused to leave Winterfell or abandon her dismal nuptial plans after Myranda tried to scare her off. These decisions have nothing to do with Stockholm Syndrome, and, needless to say, don’t make her rape any less deplorable. But they do mean that those calling this just another pointless Game of Thrones rape are missing the point. Hopefully, within a few episodes, we’ll see Sansa’s plan in action—ideally it will involve Sansa taking down the wretched family that took her home, starting with Ramsay. Sansa’s rape was, indeed, as predictable as it was painful. But it’s also a pain Sansa must have predicted would happen, and one that she knew she could withstand, in service of her larger goal.
Click to expand...
 
who said in a Twitter post on Tuesday that she was “done” with the show
Click to expand...

All you quitters will be back to watching the show again when you inevitably hear how great episodes 8-10 are this season.

A lot of you people get way too invested in your entertainment. You need to remind yourself that this is fiction. Also, this particular fiction is trying to realistically portray society similar to how things were in the middle ages. What happened to Sansa last episode wasn't exactly rape either. She knew she was going to have to sleep with him when she married him. It's all part of the plan. It was just humiliating because Theon/Reek had to watch and possibly painful because she was still a virgin. They didn't even show it and Khal Drogo did nearly the same thing to Daenerys in season 1 (minus someone to watch it) and that was shown.

Personally, I found it to be a lot more fucked up when Robb's pregnant wife got stabbed in the stomach.
 
fuzzyset said:
Just think of how many enjoyable characters are still alive though.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure GRRM heard you, and just killed another character.

MHWilliams said:
And at some point, people check out.

I'm not sure why this is hard for people to understand or a bad thing.
Click to expand...

I agree - but you can also understand why in the context of the horrors that the show has already had (stabbing a pregnant woman in the stomach repeatedly, slitting the throat of a baby); that people might be a little surprised that a rape scene is the "bridge too far". I think the argument people might be too afraid to have is whether rape is somehow more or less vile than all of the other things done on the show. I suspect people are really arguing that by proxy.
 
Z.. said:
So agonizing suffering followed by death is better than rape. Not to mention she would've been raped anyway. I really don't see what you're getting at here.
Click to expand...
Oh, she died?

Maybe I'm misreading your post.

Her character is where it is because she is making a play for power. She is suffering Ramsey for a chance at getting her home back.

Had she chosen to run, she would be left with a life in obscurity, constantly on the run. By staying in Winterfell, she is trying to take back what is rightfully hers (though she's ensnared in Little Finger's plot as well).
 
scabro said:
its rape

how are you gonna make rape more ambiguous and tasteful? As is, its a fairly tame representation of rape. I mean i just watched a certain episode of Spartacus so maybe my expectations are a little off.
Click to expand...

Uh, it's really easy to make rape more tasteful. An example of a distasteful rape is the porny pounding seen in Craster's Keep last season. A tasteful rape, which D&D seem unable to write, would be like the handling of
Claire Underwood
's rape in House of Cards.

We don't see it explicitly, but it has major implications on the plot and is described in a way that is entirely based around the victim's pain. I think it's pretty odd that the rape scene was apparently more traumatic for Theon than for Sansa.
 
Night Angel said:
Oh, she died?
Click to expand...

What? Of course not. But that was the alternative... what do you think would've happened if she said no? Would they have any reason at all to keep her alive? Nobody of import would care if they killed her so you can believe they would. Or worse, make her Reek #2.
Isn't oppression and scare tactics the Bolton way?
 
Z.. said:
What? Of course not. But that was the alternative... what do you think would've happened if she said no? Would they have any reason at all to keep her alive? Nobody of import would care if they killed her so you can believe they would. Or worse, make her Reek #2.
Isn't oppression and scare tactics the Bolton way?
Click to expand...
Got it. I misread your post. See my edit. My reply is better for the person you quoted.
 
Valhelm said:
Uh, it's really easy to make rape more tasteful. An example of a distasteful rape is the porny pounding seen in Craster's Keep last season. A tasteful rape, which D&D seem unable to write, would be like the handling of
Claire Underwood
's rape in House of Cards.

We don't see it explicitly, but it has major implications on the plot and is described in a way that is entirely based around the victim's pain. I think it's pretty odd that the rape scene was apparently more traumatic for Theon than for Sansa.
Click to expand...

Would you have rather seen Sansa's face at the fade out instead of Theon's?
 
Valhelm said:
Uh, it's really easy to make rape more tasteful. An example of a distasteful rape is the porny pounding seen in Craster's Keep last season. A tasteful rape, which D&D seem unable to write, would be like the handling of
Claire Underwood
's rape in House of Cards.

We don't see it explicitly, but it has major implications on the plot and is described in a way that is entirely based around the victim's pain. I think it's pretty odd that the rape scene was apparently more traumatic for Theon than for Sansa.
Click to expand...
So the only good way to portray rape is to not portray it at all? Isn't that more or less what happened here, making the viewer live the scene through Theon's reaction rather than slowing it in all of its gruesomeness?
 
Valhelm said:
Uh, it's really easy to make rape more tasteful. An example of a distasteful rape is the porny pounding seen in Craster's Keep last season. A tasteful rape, which D&D seem unable to write, would be like the handling of
Claire Underwood
's rape in House of Cards.

We don't see it explicitly, but it has major implications on the plot and is described in a way that is entirely based around the victim's pain. I think it's pretty odd that the rape scene was apparently more traumatic for Theon than for Sansa.
Click to expand...

That HoC rape is not the same as what happened in GoT,
that took place in the past
while GoT is happening in the here and now.

Cersei getting raped by Robert is the closest to the HoC thing
 
Pyramid head said:
The red wedding achieved all that and more as it was. Adding the part I mentioned only served to make it a smidge more shocking.
Click to expand...

The symbolic nature of stabbing the pregnant woman who Robb went with, breaking his vow to Walder Frey, is a pretty crucial (and obvious) aspect of what happened.
And again, shock value isn't necessarily a bad narrative tool, depends if it serves a purpose, which it did in that scene, to scar the audience as brutally and as violently as possible, while killing someone who was assumed to be a plot armor protected, hero bringing justice and revenge to the Lannisters, despite their superior financial and political power.

f0rk said:
Was Robb, Cat and the rest of the northerners getting shanked not enough then?
Click to expand...
No.

And i haven't read the books, so i have zero interest in the comparison.
Something either works or it doesn't on its own right, anything beyond that is beside the point.
 
Z.. said:
So agonizing suffering followed by death is better than rape. Not to mention she would've been raped anyway. I really don't see what you're getting at here.
Click to expand...

She was given an out by the old woman telling her to light a candle whenever she needed help. That could be a trap. But you know with 100% certainty that she is going to light that candle in a future episode. They wouldn't have set it up otherwise. If it is a trap, she's still going to fall in it. Perhaps it is a trap and that's when Reek saves her and redeems himself. Why not skip the rape and go straight to that?

But really she should never even have entered Winterfell and told Littlefinger to go fuck himself. Maybe Littlefinger would have tied her up and forced her to do it. But at least that's something that would make logical sense.
 
Lothar said:
She was given an out by the old woman telling her to light a candle whenever she needed help. That could be a trap. But you know with 100% certainty that she is going to light that candle in a future episode. If it is a trap, she's still going to fall in it. Perhaps it is a trap and that's when Reek saves her and redeems himself. Why not skip the rape and go straight to that?
Click to expand...

It's not a trap. Bri sent the message to sansa to light the candle. I thought it was obvious.
 
Carnby said:
It's not a trap. Bri sent the message to sansa to light the candle. I thought it was obvious.
Click to expand...

There's a strong chance the guy Brienne was talking to and the old woman talking to Sansa are Bolton people. Ramsay likes to play games. Don't forget that Ramsay actually organized a rescue for Theon from his torture room just so Ramsay could have the fun of capturing him again.
 
Valhelm said:
That might have been better, really? The best situation would be to not show it, but if you have to, at least make it about the victim.
Click to expand...
We're talking fictional characters here. They're tools of the storytellers.

I get the deviating from the books critique, but sanitizing a storyteller's vision is not for the audience to decide.
 
Kind of a side note: one thing the recent gay marriage SCOTUS ruling brought up, which I had no idea of, was that rape within a marriage was only really considered a thing in the USA as recently as ~1980. Yes, up until the 80's it really wasn't recognized that a spouse could rape his/her wife/husband in the US.

Rewind the clock a thousand years and you have all sorts of fuckery that we consider barbaric and wrong being the norm.
 
Lothar said:
She was given an out by the old woman telling her to light a candle whenever she needed help. That could be a trap. But you know with 100% certainty that she is going to light that candle in a future episode. They wouldn't have set it up otherwise. If it is a trap, she's still going to fall in it. Perhaps it is a trap and that's when Reek saves her and redeems himself. Why not skip the rape and go straight to that?
Click to expand...

Have we been watching the same show? The whole point of the rape is that she doesn't NEED saving. She knows exactly what she's doing... that's what the bathtub scene was all about, as well as her sudden change of personality last season. She's finally playing the game, instead of just playing the innocent bystander. She grew tired of being a victim of circumstances. When she does light the candle, it will be because she means business, not to avoid suffering.

Carnby said:
It's not a trap. Bri sent the message to sansa to light the candle. I thought it was obvious.
Click to expand...

I think he meant Sansa might've thought it was a trap.
 
Lol at all the outrage. You would think that Game of Thrones was a TV show for children that suddenly showed something that was way out of line.

As a fan of the show, I wasn't terribly happy with the scene because it seemed like Sansa, as a character, was going to be a participant in the "game" rather than the victim she has been since the series began.
 
gioGAF said:
Lol at all the outrage. You would think that Game of Thrones was a TV show for children that suddenly showed something that was way out of line.

As a fan of the show, I wasn't terribly happy with the scene because it seemed like Sansa, as a character, was going to be a participant in the "game" rather than the victim she has been since the series began.
Click to expand...

Again, it seems like I watched a different show than you lot. What victim? She willingly accepted what happened as the cost of doing business. If anything, this was the defining moment where in she showed just how far she's willing to go. What in the hell is going on here? Is the consensus that she was a victim? Oo
 
I've just watched the episode again. People will have their opinions on onscreen rape in general, which is understandable as it's a very emotive subject, but I disagree with the scene as shot being gratuitous - either visually or narratively. The scene in question implies far more than it shows.The disturbing nature of the scene (in that it is more so than the S1 marital rape of Daenerys) mostly comes from the way it is shot (by showing less) and also the fact that you know the character well. That and the Reek watching on part is simply disturbed/disturbing in itself.

I also think it's interesting how this is seen as terrible while the prurient objectification of women as whores and sexual objects in the show, which in the grand scheme of things is a potentially more harmful trope, is given a free pass. I sometimes think that people are willing to watch, even enjoy, a surprising amount of sexual exploitation on screen as long as it's depicted lightheartedly, whereas facing some of the potential consequences of such prevalent misogyny causes people to turn away.
 
Z.. said:
Have we been watching the same show? The whole point of the rape is that she doesn't NEED saving. She knows exactly what she's doing... that's what the bathtub scene was all about, as well as her sudden change of personality last season. She's finally playing the game, instead of just playing the innocent bystander. She grew tired of being a victim of circumstances. When she does light the candle, it will be because she means business, not to avoid suffering.
Click to expand...

Again, it seems like I watched a different show than you lot. What victim? She willingly accepted what happened as the cost of doing business. If anything, this was the defining moment where in she showed just how far she's willing to go. What in the hell is going on here? Is the consensus that she was a victim? Oo
Click to expand...

Even the people defending this are really divided about this. A lot of people are saying she went into it willingly but didn't know how terrible Ramsay was. She thought he was just going to be a typical asshole, not Joffrey squared. She wasn't prepared for this. No one could be prepared for Ramsay.

With the way she seemed terrified to tell him to make Theon leave, and she's screaming and crying, I'm leaning towards that being the case. I think she's definitely a victim.

Also the words used by the old woman were "If you're ever in trouble, light the candle." and we know Theon has to redeem himself somehow.
 
Lothar said:
There's a strong chance the guy Brienne was talking to and the old woman talking to Sansa are Bolton people. Ramsay likes to play games. Don't forget that Ramsay actually organized a rescue for Theon from his torture room just so Ramsay could have the fun of capturing him again.
Click to expand...

Well... There is always that.
 
Valhelm said:
Uh, it's really easy to make rape more tasteful. An example of a distasteful rape is the porny pounding seen in Craster's Keep last season. A tasteful rape, which D&D seem unable to write, would be like the handling of
Claire Underwood
's rape in House of Cards.

We don't see it explicitly, but it has major implications on the plot and is described in a way that is entirely based around the victim's pain. I think it's pretty odd that the rape scene was apparently more traumatic for Theon than for Sansa.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen House of Cards' scene so i cant comment, but i mean the scene as it is is pretty tame. They immediately pan from Sansa and Ramsey to Theon. And the reason that Ramsey does it is to specifically torture Theon and Sansa. How/why would you do that more "tastefully"? Its supposed to be terrible, and even then how they shot it isn't like it was overly gratuitous. They foused on Theon because him being there and watching is specifically what (presumably) will snap Theon back into Theon, and why Sansa didn't want to have sex with Ramsey. I'm sure they'll focus on Sansa as well next episode. They literally faded to black mid scene, we have to see what they do with Sansa.
 
I think the talk of 'tasteful' rape scenes is crazy. I think I get what you are TRYING to say, but there has to be a better way to describe it.

The Lamonster said:
Can't take the heat? Get out of the kitchen.
Click to expand...

Well, I think these people are. So there will probably be less people in the future of the show 'shocked' and 'bewildered' by the gruesome shit that goes on in the show in future seasons if these folks stop watching now.
 
People aren't outraged by the idea of GoT depicting rape, they're just whiny that it happened to a character they were rooting for.

It's a show that prides itself on shock value for the sake of shock value so nerds have something to talk/advertise about on Twitter. This is nothing new.
 
don't worry they will be back next week after they've had time to calm down and they feel left out from others talking bout the latest episode
 
There is this troubling idea here and elsewhere that since the show is so full of rape, torture and violence people should be "ok" with it and people should not feel upset about the rape of a main character. It doesn't speak very well about the show, or some of its viewers for that matter.
 
mantidor said:
There is this troubling idea here and elsewhere that since the show is so full of rape, torture and violence people should be "ok" with it and people should not feel upset about the rape of a main character. It doesn't speak very well about the show, or some of its viewers for that matter.
Click to expand...

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat.
 
Aurongel said:
People aren't outraged by the idea of GoT depicting rape, they're just whiny that it happened to a character they were rooting for.
Click to expand...

Hell, I'd be down with including the Reek part as long as it made sense. As long as we had some notion of a revenge plan rather than waiting for Stannis. I'd be okay with it if she tried to stab him first as soon as they were alone on their wedding night. (He couldn't kill her. He needs her for the north) I think many of the people mentioning agency may agree with me. At least she would be attempting to make a power play.
 
hiiD22m.png


He's got a point

Valhelm said:
That might have been better, really? The best situation would be to not show it, but if you have to, at least make it about the victim.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think you're right
 
Lothar said:
Even the people defending this are really divided about this. A lot of people are saying she went into it willingly but didn't know how terrible Ramsay was. She thought he was just going to be a typical asshole, not Joffrey squared. She wasn't prepared for this. No one could be prepared for Ramsay.

With the way she seemed terrified to tell him to make Theon leave, and she's screaming and crying, I'm leaning towards that being the case. I think she's definitely a victim.

Also the words used by the old woman were "If you're ever in trouble, light the candle." and we know Theon has to redeem himself somehow.
Click to expand...

Well then, since we're all just speculating it's pointless to be outraged until we have a full picture. But the victim thing really doesn't make much sense narratively as she would've gone for the candle.

As for my 2 cents, I don't think redemption is coming for Theon at all. He is quite literally dead.
I think Sansa went into this knowing exactly what could (and did) happen. That she screamed and cried doesn't mean anything by itself. As for her not knowing how terrible Ramsay was, I'll point to the bathtub scene again. Time will tell, I guess... but if it turns out that Sansa was indeed just a victim, that was some godawful writing on their part. -.-'

Not said:
Yeah, I think you're right
Click to expand...

You guys need to watch Irreversible. Now THAT's how a rape scene should be handled.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

It's been like 6 years and LittleFinger's ending still upsets me. Game Of Thrones Spoilers.
2
61
3K
Madflavor replied
HBO Announces More Cast of Upcoming Harry Potter TV Show
2
62
3K
Avid Reading Horse replied
Man-children of GAF, show off your collections of worthless plastic!
Social Community  2
51
671
rubik's dude replied
Korean Netflix Show Review: Mr Plankton *SPOILERS*
12
18K
near replied
Squid Game creator thoroughly sick of the show after wrapping S2
2
72
6K
YCoCg replied
Top Bottom