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[Hari Seldon]

Yep. Got too mainstream. Everyone used to fairytale happy endings and plot armor for all the major characters can't handle it.

They need to make a comic book version where Ramsey is a cackling maniac bent on stealing everyone's pennies via a rounding error and John Snow shows up in tights and arrests everyone (he doesn't kill because REASONS), after a brief but totally believable scene where the hero might actually be killed.

 

[anaron]

Not sure I understand why people are only dropping the show now because of the rape scene. We had a rape scene near the start with Daenerys, why not drop it then? Did they for some reason think it was a one time thing?

because it's been layered and layered on with pointless rape scenes since then/constant gratuitous female nudity and torture

"but that's how it was!"

Grantland's quote on the subject pretty much sums it up:

"There’s a fine line between exposing the dirty truth of the world and wallowing in it."

 

[ultron87]

No, they decided 'Sansa is going back to Winterfell... And the only way this makes sense is if she marries. The only individual in Winterfell right now who this makes sense for is Ramsay. Ramsay is a crazy, psychotic cunt. Sansa realizes that the only thing she has for her right now is her last name, and her beauty. She also realizes that if she wishes to rise to a position of authority again she's going to have to sacrifice even more.'

There is literally no other scenario that would have made sense. Would Ramsay suddenly indulge in his soft, sensitive side? Now, Sansa and Theon both have a reason to take him down when the time comes, and I think it's clearly headed in that direction. It makes perfect sense, both in terms of story development and character depictions and tendencies.

She arrives at Winterfell but Stannis attacks before they actually get married. Theon, in an attempt to redeem himself, helps her to get out of the castle during the battle after confessing he didn't kill Bran and Rickon. There. I solved your impossible writer's knot.

Even if there is literally no way to have this happen in any other way the writers are still responsible for creating the scenario. They don't even have "but it's from the book" to fall back on. I really, truly, hope that they handle it well and examine what this horrible thing means for Sansa's character, but as I've said numerous times in this thread, past history with this in the show does not make me hopeful.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

"but that's how it was!"

Grantland's quote on the subject pretty much sums it up:

"There’s a fine line between exposing the dirty truth of the world and wallowing in it."

Spot on.

This is the most popular HBO show. I expect less amateur things than relying on shock raping your most popular ladies in order for them to grow or do anything.

I don't have a problem at all with what happened to Sansa on its own. It was fittingly dark and weird for all of those characters involved. It's just that it's the same shit over and over.

 

[Nerokis]

I don't think much will come from her storyline in Winterfell. I don't see any potential turning point for her character here, she'll be even more angry and scared and that'll be it. Maybe she'll light the candle and help will show up but I doubt she'll do anything more than that. With the books, the focus was on Theon as it was his story. If you want to give them the benefit of the doubt here, you're free to. But I don't know, they've been botching story lines left and right, especially with the land of bad fight planning & fight choreography and the Inquest of Loras' birthmark

We'll see.

Littlefinger not caring what happens to Sansa? He might as well be a different character from his book counterpart.

That was my personal interpretation, and I also worded it poorly. I'm sure he has affection for her, but he doesn't strike me as someone who would do everything in his power to avoid putting her in an unpleasant circumstance.

Alternatively, it was sort of implied that Littlefinger is unaware of Ramsay's "tendencies," but I'm not sure how plausible that is.

 

[Speevy]

I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to, but if your are saying the authorial intent was that the Jaime/Cersei sex scene was an unambiguous rape then I guess it accomplished its mission well enough because the majority here clearly read it as such.

This is what I'm referring to

https://youtu.be/TfvVluNxujc?t=2974

Clear as day

 

[CornBurrito]

That was my personal interpretation, and I also worded it poorly. I'm sure he has affection for her, but he doesn't strike me as someone who would do everything in his power to avoid putting her in an unpleasant circumstance.

Alternatively, it was sort of implied that Littlefinger is unaware of Ramsay's "tendencies," but I'm not sure how plausible that is.

I recall reading something that in the show version not everyone is aware that Ramsay is fucking crazy. However, the whole point of Littlefinger is that he has dirt on everyone and that he is obsessively in love with Sansa. And all the sudden in the show version he either knows nothing about Ramsay (which goes against his character) or is fine with knowingly sending Sansa to a man who is known to mutilate, kill, rape, etc... (which goes against his character).

Look, I get it. Some book readers complain about the most asinine things, like "Only Cat" vs "Your sister". But this change is fucking up Littlefinger's character.

 

[Verger]

because it's been layered and layered on with pointless rape scenes since then/constant gratuitous female nudity and torture

So all that gratuitous torture of Theon was just fine and dandy? Or all the violence and beheadings against men.

Why is it only a problem when it is done to women?

 

[Freshmaker]

The show creator's defense of the scene is pretty bad too. They called it "a woman making a difficult decision." They came out to defend their last rape scene as well, claiming it was also not actually rape. This seems to be a recurring issue.

Well, nobody's supposed to think "Yay! Rape" in the first place. OTOH, pretending it never happened in medieval societies (which GoT is following rather closely) is rather insane.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

So all that gratuitous torture of Theon was just fine and dandy? Or all the violence and beheadings against men.

Why is it only a problem when it is done to women?

I mean, have you just been absent for commentary and critiques about the treatment of women in popular media for decades?

 

[nelsonroyale]

Yep. Got too mainstream. Everyone used to fairytale happy endings and plot armor for all the major characters can't handle it.

How about plot armour for all the major villains?

 

[Verger]

I mean, have you just been absent for commentary and critiques about the treatment of women in popular media for decades?

None of that should be relevant here. Women shouldn't be treated "special" in fiction and somehow immune to horrors while it's ok for men to be abused a million times over.

 

[vas_a_morir]

Well, nobody's supposed to think "Yay! Rape" in the first place. OTOH, pretending it never happened in medieval societies (which GoT is following rather closely) is rather insane.

She had resolved to have sex with him, no matter what. She just didn't expect him to be so monstrously depraved about it.

None of that should be relevant here. Women shouldn't be treated "special" in fiction and somehow immune to horrors while it's ok for men to be abused a million times over.

Theon is a cis-gendered white male oppressor. He deserved his attempted rape, genital mutilation, and enslavement.

 

[blitzcloud]

In my view the author of the whole series is fucked up.

So history is double-fucked up? Triple even, i'd say. For Game of Thrones, magic and dragons aside is basicly a tale of stories that really happened in the past. Red wedding equals the real event known as Black dinner

 

[ultron87]

So all that gratuitous torture of Theon was just fine and dandy? Or all the violence and beheadings against men.

Why is it only a problem when it is done to women?

No one would complain if the effects of the various traumas against women in the show were treated with the same nuance that the effects of Theon's torture have been. He's an incredibly interesting character that was deeply affected by and is still trying to come to terms with his trauma. That's interesting and good writing!

 

[vas_a_morir]

No one would complain if the effects of the various traumas against women in the show were treated with the same nuance that the effects of Theon's torture have been. He's an incredibly interesting character that was deeply affected by and is still trying to come to terms with his trauma. That's interesting and good writing!

Arya Stark doesn't exist, huh? Brienne of Tarth, who's that?

 

[nelsonroyale]

They are speeding things along with Sansa because in the books it is chapter after chapter of nothing with her character. I am fine with this.

And much was lost in translation...

It does seem a titilation scene though...Lets have the classic damsel in distress (which Sansa most emphatically has been, the classic maid) raped by the most depraved character in the series...I mean the event at this point in the cycle of her character makes no sense and is a massive departure from the books, so it is not surprising people are making a fuss. Sansa is not one of my fave characters at all, but there is a big difference between the event happening to Jayne Poole (a sideshow character) and Sansa...

Blitzcloud: Wait, are you claiming this series is historically 'accurate'? It isn't that accurate to the War of Roses from what I am aware (and my knowledge on it is super slight). Loosely based and inspired are more likely.

 

[Brakke]

Theon is a cis-gendered white male oppressor. He deserved his attempted rape, genital mutilation, and enslavement.

Theon is a child-murdering, family-betraying coward.

Nobody deserves what happened to him. I think that's kind of the point there. People are first excited to see this slimeball get his comeuppance, then as it drags on and on and on they start to get uncomfortable about it and eventually come back around to sympathizing with him.

 

[ultron87]

Arya Stark doesn't exist, huh? Brienne of Tarth, who's that?

I don't understand. Yes, their storylines have been better. I can still complain about the shitty ones with the added in rapes.

 

[jtb]

the "this is the world they live in" excuse to insulate the showrunners from responsibility of writing not-garbage stories rings a little hollow when they've chosen to write this world, they've chosen to write this plot, etc.

the use of torture and sexual violence—not gender-exclusive, mind you—in this series as a means of extracting sympathy from viewers is sadistic, exploitative, and just tiresome. game of thrones doesn't shock me, it just makes me roll my eyes with how transparent their storytelling is.

 

[vas_a_morir]

Theon is a child-murdering, family-betraying coward.

Nobody deserves what happened to him. I think that's kind of the point there. People are first excited to see this slimeball get his comeuppance, then as it drags on and on and on they start to get uncomfortable about it and eventually come back around to sympathizing with him.

Rewatch the 2nd season... most of the most heinous things he did were stuff that he kinda was forced to do. He was raised like a noble Stark, and he had no idea how to control/relate to his barbaric people. Not saying you are wrong, but upon rewatch, I came to see Theon's actions as largely out of his control. "largely" because he could at any time die and not have to do them, but that's about the only option.

 

[soleil]

the "this is the world they live in" excuse to insulate the showrunners from responsibility of writing not-garbage stories rings a little hollow when they've chosen to write this world, they've chosen to write this plot, etc.

the use of torture and sexual violence—not gender-exclusive, mind you—in this series as a means of extracting sympathy from viewers is sadistic, exploitative, and just tiresome. game of thrones doesn't shock me, it just makes me roll my eyes with how transparent their storytelling is.

What is there that needs to be "excused"?

 

[jtb]

What is there that needs to be "excused"?

Their consistently garbage writing of rape—from both a morality/didactic perspective (ie. does this series glorify/trivialize/etc. sexual violence) and from a pure storytelling perspective (ie. main characters are ignored in their own stories, their trauma is someone else's story).

 

[vas_a_morir]

I don't understand. Yes, their storylines have been better. I can still complain about the shitty ones with the added in rapes.

This is the reality of Sansa's choice outside the walls of her family's castle. She chose (although what choice did she have?) to wed Ramsey. This is part of it, and she knew it. While she had hoped he would have been a gentle lord and not some depraved bastard who was not raised with nobility, this is unfortunately part of it. We'll see, but seeing how other countless female characters have risen out of their tragic and abused pasts to become self-empowered, I hesitate to call this rape 'pointless' just yet. Seemed like it had a profound effect on two major characters.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

I recall reading something that in the show version not everyone is aware that Ramsay is fucking crazy. However, the whole point of Littlefinger is that he has dirt on everyone and that he is obsessively in love with Sansa. And all the sudden in the show version he either knows nothing about Ramsay (which goes against his character) or is fine with knowingly sending Sansa to a man who is known to mutilate, kill, rape, etc... (which goes against his character).

Look, I get it. Some book readers complain about the most asinine things, like "Only Cat" vs "Your sister". But this change is fucking up Littlefinger's character.

At first I thought that it didn't make sense that Littlefinger didn't know much about Ramsay but given that until recently he wasn't that important and the fact that anyone close enough to him to know would probably be too scared to inform on him given what he does to people who "bore" him it kinda makes sense that his information would be spotty.

As far as his relationship with Sansa, I feel like in both versions he cares to some degree for Sansa, but even in the book I feel like there's some degree of question as to what degree he cares for her versus his own ambitions. We don't have a POV chapter with him so all we have to go on is his actions and what he says to people, neither of which can we assume to be transparent.

If push comes to shove, will he choose her safety over his own power? I think that's up for debate.

And if we assume that he believes that Ramsay is a rational actor like Roose is, there's no reason to believe that she is actually in danger from the Boltons. The only reason it happens is because Ramsay is a sadist, not because there's any rational reason for them to do so. Abusing a Stark will further inflame the Northern lords, already chafing under the yoke, and killing a Stark would likely cause full on rebellion.

It may be slightly different than Littlefinger in the books in certain ways but I don't think it "destroys" his character.

 

[-tetsuo-]

It seems a bit premature to call the scene pointless, no? Perhaps we should, you know, see what happens after.

 

[jtb]

This is the reality of Sansa's choice outside the walls of her family's castle. She chose (although what choice did she have?) to wed Ramsey. This is part of it, and she knew it. While she had hoped he would have been a gentle lord and not some depraved bastard who was not raised with nobility, this is unfortunately part of it. We'll see, but seeing how other countless female characters have risen out of their tragic and abused pasts to become self-empowered, I hesitate to call this rape 'pointless' just yet. Seemed like it had a profound effect on two major characters.

It seems a bit premature to call the scene pointless, no? Perhaps we should, you know, see what happens after.

The problem with rape being just a plot point for Sansa's "growth" is that, then the series is positioning being raped as a pre-requisite for female empowerment. She was naive and her arc was going around in circles... but now that she's been raped, she's naive no more! If nothing else, it's non-sensical considering how often the show dangles sexual violence as a means of generating tension—if rape is so ever-present, then how come she literally needs to be raped in order to get the message across?—and plot, and it's just trivializing the act/experience of rape itself by, perversely, making it necessary.

Not to mention, the show positions the scene as much about Theon's pain as it is Sansa's; as if the two are the same and equal. That's a cowardly move.

 

[VARIA]

They need to make a comic book version where Ramsey is a cackling maniac bent on stealing everyone's pennies via a rounding error and John Snow shows up in tights and arrests everyone (he doesn't kill because REASONS), after a brief but totally believable scene where the hero might actually be killed.

Haha, you reminded me of this:

 

[Shaanyboi]

What is there that needs to be "excused"?

Their repeatedly shitty reliance on using rape as an added plot device whilst simultaneously treating the victims' own trauma as backdrop/motivation for another character's arc as opposed to focusing on them.

 

[soleil]

Their consistently garbage writing of rape—from both a morality/didactic perspective (ie. does this series glorify/trivialize/etc. sexual violence) and from a pure storytelling perspective (ie. main characters are ignored in their own stories, their trauma is someone else's story).

About morality: I did not get the feeling the rape scene made rape out to be glorified or trivialized. Sansa and Theon were both shedding tears.

Storytelling: The latest episode ended with the rape so we don't know how the rape will affect the story yet.

Their repeatedly shitty reliance on using rape as an added plot device whilst simultaneously treating the victims' own trauma as backdrop/motivation for another character's arc as opposed to focusing on them.

In this scene, they focused on both Sansa and Theon. I know humans have short attention spans but I think it's safe to say that we can focus on two characters at a time. You're presenting a false dichotomy.

 

[impact]

So, why are people pretending to be upset or offended again? Rape is in so many different forms of media, as well as murder, torture and other awful acts. Get over yourselves.

I thought the episode was great, and the scene just fueled my hate for him even more. Same with the other two people I watched it with. Yep, pointless scene.

 

[Kinyou]

The problem with rape being just a plot point for Sansa's "growth" is that, then the series is positioning being raped as a pre-requisite for female empowerment. She was naive and her arc was going around in circles... but now that she's been raped, she's naive no more! If nothing else, it's non-sensical considering how often the show dangles sexual violence as a means of generating tension—if rape is so ever-present, then how come she literally needs to be raped in order to get the message across?—and plot, and it's just trivializing the act/experience of rape itself by, perversely, making it necessary.

Not to mention, the show positions the scene as much about Theon's pain as it is Sansa's; as if the two are the same and equal. That's a cowardly move.

But that's not at all how it's going down. Watch the end of season 4. The moment where Sansa becomes stronger is made very clear. This rape isn't the catalyst for her empowerment, it is something she was willing to go through because she has bigger plans. She knew that Ramsey was going to rape her since Little Finger told her that she'll marry him. He said she doesn't have to do it, but she went through with it because she wants Winterfell back

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

What did people expect Ramsey to do? know what type of character he has been...

I didnt read the books but the moment Lord Baelish proposed the plan, I knew Sansa was gonna be tortured one way or another, unless the North was attacked or something else...

none of this felt forced to me.

 

[vas_a_morir]

The problem with rape being just a plot point for Sansa's "growth" is that, then the series is positioning being raped as a pre-requisite for female empowerment. She was naive and her arc was going around in circles... but now that she's been raped, she's naive no more! If nothing else, it's non-sensical considering how often the show dangles sexual violence as a means of generating tension—if rape is so ever-present, then how come she literally needs to be raped in order to get the message across?—and plot, and it's just trivializing the act/experience of rape itself by, perversely, making it necessary.

Not to mention, the show positions the scene as much about Theon's pain as it is Sansa's; as if the two are the same and equal. That's a cowardly move.

Cowardly? It was BOLD. Theon's pained reactions were some of the most powerful imagery in the entire series, and the series is full of memorable imagery. Cowardly would be to not depict rape because it would anger self-proclaimed intellectual do-gooders.

They don't owe it to anybody to be fair. Just to tell a compelling story. Theon's guilt over the rape of his little sister that he indirectly caused is COMPELLING. Berserk did something similar to amazing effect.

 

[GeordieMark]

It seems a bit premature to call the scene pointless, no? Perhaps we should, you know, see what happens after.

I haven't read the books, so I wasn't aware this scene was not taken from them, and do not know how the story unfolds beyond has transpired in the TV series so far. As a result, it's hard to determine whether it is gratuitous or not because, like you say, I don't know what the plot implications are yet.

Scenes like this are always uncomfortable, but I didn't feel like this one was unsympathetic or overly graphic. There isn't a nice way to portray a brutal rape. I always pay closer attention to to the way the aftermath and repercussions are handled as I feel that is key to setting the tone and emotional impact of the scene.

 

[thekad]

The problem with rape being just a plot point for Sansa's "growth" is that, then the series is positioning being raped as a pre-requisite for female empowerment. She was naive and her arc was going around in circles... but now that she's been raped, she's naive no more! If nothing else, it's non-sensical considering how often the show dangles sexual violence as a means of generating tension—if rape is so ever-present, then how come she literally needs to be raped in order to get the message across?—and plot, and it's just trivializing the act/experience of rape itself by, perversely, making it necessary.

Except that isn't what "the message" was... She wasn't naive before the rape. Do you even watch the show?

Not to mention, the show positions the scene as much about Theon's pain as it is Sansa's; as if the two are the same and equal. That's a cowardly move.

So that's a no, then.

 

[Liquidus Snake]

Man idk how people fine this stuff entertaining....rape is a serious issue in our society, and i dont like how the show trivializes this fact.

It really hurts me to see things like this because my pet dog recently got

Spoiler

raped

by another dog on the street recently, it was a shocking event to see and you could feel his angst and depression after it.

 

[Brakke]

Rewatch the 2nd season... most of the most heinous things he did were stuff that he kinda was forced to do. He was raised like a noble Stark, and he had no idea how to control/relate to his barbaric people. Not saying you are wrong, but upon rewatch, I came to see Theon's actions as largely out of his control. "largely" because he could at any time die and not have to do them, but that's about the only option.

Yeah we can read it that way. Then he's even more tragic. Everybody in Westeros hates him for the things he's done, he hates himself for the things he's done, nobody understands him, nobody relates to him, he's subjected to wild psychological and physical torture. In this way he's a victim of the toxic masculinity of the Iron Islands. He was a guy who didn't have an identity, tried to assume the identity of his birth father, and suffered mightily for doing so.

His torture wasn't "ok" because he's a cis white man. I didn't really think his torture was "ok" at all, shit got gratuitous. We can at least read it in context of several different interesting politics: the dangerous of toxic masculinity, the struggles around identity for adopted children (which is also interesting in conversation with Jon Snow the Bastard), our attitudes with regard to punitive "justice".

Except that isn't what "the message" was... She wasn't naive before the rape. Do you even watch the show?

What? How do you figure? Name three worldly, savvy plays Sansa has ever made?

 

[Kinyou]

What? How do you figure? Name three worldly, savvy plays Sansa has ever made?

Naive Sansa would have reacted very differently during the bath scene, don't you think?

 

[GameGuru59]

The problem with rape being just a plot point for Sansa's "growth" is that, then the series is positioning being raped as a pre-requisite for female empowerment. She was naive and her arc was going around in circles... but now that she's been raped, she's naive no more! If nothing else, it's non-sensical considering how often the show dangles sexual violence as a means of generating tension—if rape is so ever-present, then how come she literally needs to be raped in order to get the message across?—and plot, and it's just trivializing the act/experience of rape itself by, perversely, making it necessary.

Not to mention, the show positions the scene as much about Theon's pain as it is Sansa's; as if the two are the same and equal. That's a cowardly move.

You say this as though the only strong female characters have been raped. Arya hasn't been raped. The woman trying to rescue the stark girls hasn't been raped (though she almost was). A myriad of other female characters haven't been raped.

Also, its important to remember the show is set in feudal times. Women did not fare... well back then. Especially during wars.

 

[Brakke]

Naive Sansa would have reacted very differently during the bath scene, don't you think?

That play was naive af. Antagonizing a lady who's shown she's dangerous while you're an idiot who's never held a knife is a Dumb Move. She thinks her name will protect her from getting stabbed by Myranda? She thinks her betrothal to Ramsay will protect her?

 

[Damerman]

In the books it was way worse. Except it happened to a minor character so I guess that makes it OK?

Spoiler

jayne pool

didn't go through the same character development that Sansa has. After this scene, it becomes very difficult to notice that sansa is doing this as a choice in order to manipulate events later on, only because the show focused on Theon's reaction.

Using rape as a tool against a character like Sansa was backwards, unnecessary and her reaction was contrary to everything that she went through and her untimely maturity. She should have at least maintained composure during the scene... It's not like Sansa hasn't been in a situation where she was sexually assaulted before. All of a sudden she acts weak and fragile?

She should have owned the consummation and Theon's reaction would not need to have been different, because it was still the sweet sansa that he knew. The showrunners deliberately turned the consummation into a rape scene that made sansa jarringly vulnerable for the sake of Theon's arc development. Sansa knows what happens after a marriage since she has been in the situation before not to mention that she was stripped in the iron throne and nearly raped when the poor of kings landing started to riot, so why does she cry when it happens? she should definitely have shown ramesey that she was not afraid of him and that she has been through worse than him.

ending the episode in that unnecessary scene was insult to injury.

 

[Cybit]

That play was naive af. Antagonizing a lady who's shown she's dangerous while you're an idiot who's never held a knife is a Dumb Move. She thinks her name will protect her from getting stabbed by Myranda? She thinks her betrothal to Ramsay will protect her?

She's a Stark...it's pretty par for the course on "nothing will go wrong I can't handle!" <things then go terribly terribly wrong>

 

[Deleted member 17706]

It seems a bit premature to call the scene pointless, no? Perhaps we should, you know, see what happens after.

Potentially premature outrage on the Internet? You've got to be kidding me.

Always fun to read the experts call out "lazy writing" or "amateur plot devices." It's like they can't just stop as disliking something. They have to come up with reasons why it's objectively bad and must not happen again!

 

[jtb]

Even if Sansa was really not-naive and world smart (which... I barely buy... but whatever)... that's only up until the point where she got raped. So, apparently she wasn't growing that much as a character. You can't have it both ways... was she growing as a character and the rape completely reset all that growth? Or was she naive the whole time, then got raped as a catalyst for plot change? Either way, you've got some really shitty writing to chose from.

And the direction of the episode was fucking cowardly. Theon didn't get raped. If you're going to depict a rape, then depict the rape&#8212;particularly if you're going to dangle the main character as emotional bait. It's truly the least you can do. His psychology is interesting, but the act of exploring his psychology is making the act of rape and Sansa objects to his own plot. As always, the rapes on this show become about the men. Come on.

 

[Damerman]

That play was naive af. Antagonizing a lady who's shown she's dangerous while you're an idiot who's never held a knife is a Dumb Move. She thinks her name will protect her from getting stabbed by Myranda? She thinks her betrothal to Ramsay will protect her?

this is such a contradiction. Myranda a no name commoner killing a high lord? bro, don't even try.

 

[TheDrizzlerJ11]

The sense that Sansa isn't the naive girl she was has been growing for awhile. And I think the bath scene solidified it. Sansa knows how important she is to Ramsey, she is the key to the north. She isn't to be fucked with, unless you're a Bolton, and she knows it.

 

[Ferrio]

Even if Sansa was really not-naive and world smart (which... I barely buy... but whatever)... that's only up until the point where she got raped. So, apparently she wasn't growing that much as a character. You can't have it both ways... was she growing as a character and the rape completely reset all that growth? Or was she naive the whole time, then got raped as a catalyst for plot change? Either way, you've got some really shitty writing to chose from.

I don't see how the rape negates any growth of the character.

 

[vas_a_morir]

I don't see how the rape negates any growth of the character.

Yet so many people seemingly believe this.

 

[Kinyou]

That play was naive af. Antagonizing a lady who's shown she's dangerous while you're an idiot who's never held a knife is a Dumb Move. She thinks her name will protect her from getting stabbed by Myranda? She thinks her betrothal to Ramsay will protect her?

Even if that is your conclusion, the change of character compared to the earlier seasons is obvious. And her betrothal to Ramsay does protect her (from anyone but Ramsey himself that is). If Myranda touches her she'd get it a hundred times worth and she knows that. Otherwise she would have tried to kill Sansa instead of just scaring her

Even if Sansa was really not-naive and world smart (which... I barely buy... but whatever)... that's only up until the point where she got raped. So, apparently she wasn't growing that much as a character. You can't have it both ways... was she growing as a character and the rape completely reset all that growth? Or was she naive the whole time, then got raped as a catalyst for plot change? Either way, you've got some really shitty writing to chose from.

Ehh... no. Like I said, it was something she was actively willing to go through because she has bigger plans. Not sure how rape "resets" character growth anyway.