Koji Igarashi Kickstarts Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night (2.5D, backdash, 2018)

I'm guessing since it could eat into the games overall budget? It's not directly their problem of course, but if porting doesn't go as smoothly as planned and more resources need to devoted to the Wii U version as a result, that could result in compromises to the base game.

You would hope they already thought this through, on the viability of a Wii U port. But there's no way to know for sure.

That's why I keep bringing up that they're also getting outside funding on top of the KS money. And the base game funding was a fraction of what they already amassed here. To me it all just sounds like platform elitism unless one just expects a humongous disaster on all fronts at which point there shouldn't even be any excitement for the game itself which also leads to the question: why the panic?
 
"Compromising their original view" to put this on an extra platform would be a less silly theory if WiiU's user base wasn't minuscule. I just can't buy that conspiracy theory when (to me) everything points to they not considering WiiU an initial platform simply because they'll have to build that version from scratch, which requires money (hence, it was always a stretch goal in the "basement").
 
Anyone worried about wether the Wii U can handle it has never seen or played DK Tropical Freeze. It's gonna be fine. This is IGA's baby. He's not going to make some gameboy-ass version of it. If he says it runs on Wii U then who are you to question it?
Tropical Freeze is a first party game and doesn't use Unreal Engine 4. Completely different scenario.
 
"Compromising their original view" to put this on an extra platform would be a less silly theory if WiiU's user base wasn't minuscule. I just can't buy that conspiracy theory when (to me) everything points to they not considering WiiU an initial platform simply because they'll have to build that version from scratch, which requires money (hence, it was always a stretch goal in the "basement").
It is still every bit as silly because that's still not what's happening here
 
It is still every bit as silly because that's still not what's happening here
Yeah, but it's an extra layer of silly :P "They're downgrading the game to go after that WiiU money!". Lol okay.

Tropical Freeze is a first party game and doesn't use Unreal Engine 4. Completely different scenario.
I don't think this game will use UE4 on WiiU. "Downports" are usually building the game from scratch, like MN9 on handhelds.
 
The fact that it's being dumped onto a port house mitigates the concern to a large degree. Would still prefer the money being thrown at Armature Studios to go towards developing the real version of the game though.
 
First Kickstarter I've funded, so happy to do it. If it's half as good as Ecclesia I'll still be happy. It's been too long since I've played an IGAvania from the man himself.
 
The fact that it's being dumped onto a port house mitigates the concern to a large degree. Would still prefer the money being thrown at Armature Studios to go towards developing the real version of the game though.

Out of those $3,000,000 there are $2,750,000 going towards "the real version of the game" and $250,000 are what they're asking for the "not real version of the game" to be made on top by another studio. Those $250,000 are half of what they originally were asking for to secure development of the main game (plus the outside funding that still exists).
 
So, to recapitulate:

- WiiU basement stretch goal was implied from day one.
- It wasn't confirmed until they got certain amount of money (it's almost as if they planned it so the budget for the main version wouldn't be affected!).
- It's being outsourced to a port house.
- No kind of parity has been promised between both versions in the first place.

Curse U, WiiYou!
 
Out of those $3,000,000 there are $2,750,000 going towards "the real version of the game" and $250,000 are what they're asking for the "not real version of the game" to be made on top by another studio. Those $250,000 are half of what they originally were asking for to secure development of the main game (plus the outside funding that still exists).

Like I said, it being dumped on a port house reduces the concerns to very mild ones (even buffer funding for the actual game since game development is risky would be a better use of the money IMO). Good luck to Armature in either rebuilding the game from scratch or porting UE4 to the WiiU and then porting the game though.
 
(Fair warning, I started this post trying to make it simple and concise. Please refer to the "TL;DR" for a simplistic take, but bear in mind that it naturally comes off as a little more brash. I tried very hard to make this post nuanced and to not try to offend anyone defending the port or worried about the port.)

I regret to finally weigh in on the Wii U controversy, but I feel that I should state my opinion on it regardless.

The facts are:
1. The game will almost certainly receive the funding necessary to hire Armature to downport the game.
2. IntiCreates has promised to focus on the "primary platforms", those supported by Unreal Engine 4 (PC, PS4 & Xbox One).

It is very likely that Armature will move Bloodstained to Unreal Engine 3 or Unity rather than attempting an Unreal Engine 4 Wii U branch, the resources required would most likely be a waste of time and effort, so undeniably Armature will likely need to work on converting most assets into a compatible format with either Unity or UE3.

To branch off from this line of thought for a moment; there has been some controversy recently regarding Project Cars' own Wii U build, and its possible failure to ever release despite the version being promised by the studio. Ian Bell, the head of the Slightly Mad Studios expressed uncertainty in the game being completed for Wii U, going so far as to admit to hoping they can switch development over to a "NX" version after a possible E3 announcement.

I find it unlikely that IntiCreates will take any chances at breaking such a promise when developing this game and consequently must put more effort into ensuring the game's gameplay and relative visual parity than most people here give them credit for. Despite a majority of the load of dealing with programming on two different engines being lifted by outsourcing this Wii U version to Armature, there is no actual way for them to go completely "hands off" with it. To actually go without constantly considering "can Armature actually manage this on Wii U?" and working closely with them to ensure parity would be hugely irresponsible.

IntiCreates will have to work closely with Armature to assure asset similarity while watching Armature's progress from a distance, to not have at least a full time supervisor or small team at IntiCreates dedicated to helping Armature through the Wii U branch's starting from day one, completely dedicated to assuring quality across both platform sets would be reckless, no matter how much both developers may trust each other. It is reasonable to make the assumption that Bloodstained will not be as demanding technically as Project Cars, but simple features such as seamless area transitions allowed by streaming using the increased RAM size and speed on the "power trio" vs Wii U must be responsibly accounted for by IntiCreates when developing. I am not very worried that the game will be "pushing the envelope" in regards to the hardware of the "power trio", but it doesn't need to for IntiCreates to potentially run into small snags in development, the most likely problem is properly accounting for the much weaker CPU and RAM of the Wii U, not the graphical aspect.

Essentially, my current opinion on the Wii U port is cautious optimism, with "cautious" being the key word. I believe it is possible for everything to work smoothly and for both builds being released and with relative parity. But what I want to stress, is that those dismissing concerns because IntiCreates will simply "farm out" the port to Armature and saying anyone worried about it is either irrationally hating on the Wii U, unfairly distrusting of both IntiCreates and Armature, overestimating the graphical demands of the game, or any combination of all of these, are being slightly ignorant of the predictable reality of this "outsource port".

In regards to trusting the two developers to deliver the game properly, I'm not that worried, though I have to admit that IntiCreates has my trust more than Armature. Armature's ex-Retro reputation and leadership is still probably worth something, but they have (through probably circumstances beyond their control, such as a real lack of independent funding necessary for a product of their own) in my opinion failed to meet the expectations such a reputation has given them, with only MGS 2 & 3's Vita ports personally impressing me, and even that was likely built mostly on the foundation Bluepoint built for the X360 and PS3 ports.
I trust these developers to keep their promises, and to do their best to make the game the best it can be on both platform sets, this trust extends however to IntiCreates not employing a "hands off" approach. Such an action would actually be very worrying for me, as both companies will have to have close co-operation to make this come to fruition. Naturally I understand people's worries that this co-operation will cause snags during the games development, and I wouldn't expect loading times or graphics to be unaffected on Wii U, but I doubt the core of the game will have to be sacrificed to appease Wii U development so I don't share these exact concerns.

TL;DR:
Basically, those dismissing concerns about the port causing IntiCreates to be "tied down" to the Wii U by simply saying "Armature will deal with it" are being ignorant of how irresponsible such inaction would be on IntiCreate's part. I would posit that there is no way simply dumping a finished game built with UE4 for the "power trio" on Armature with a bundle of money and wishing them the best of luck would work out well, no matter the competency of either developer, nor the "simplicity" of the game. Therefore IntiCreates must work closely with Armature during development, thankfully they won't have to worry about the exact coding technicalities of porting the game, but they will have to co-operate with Armature. I trust them to do this well, so I'm not trying to speak "doom and gloom" regarding the Wii U version, I just want to make clear my opinion that simply dismissing fears regarding the Wii U port as Wii U hate or distrust for the developers would be ignoring of the realities of game development, and that everyone should consider all angles before basically caricaturing people as simply "Wii U/Nintendo haters". I have faith both developers can pull off the game without significant "sacrifices", though I understand why people would have concerns, and I hope what I've just written will inform people that concerns exist beyond "Wii U sucks".

Side note:
(I want to make clear that I am very excited about Bloodstained and will be getting it first on PS4. Mentioning the level of my backing seems like it would be bragging or trying to say I have more of a right to be heard than others, which I don't, so it is irrelevant and thus I won't mention it. I will probably one day get the Wii U version if it uses the hardware's unique features to the best of its abilities, ie. interesting uses of the Gamepads, obviously starting with seamless inventory and map screens, but maybe they can fit something else in...?)
 
Why do so many people think a very simple 2D game with a few 3D models is going to be such a huge intensive game that the Wii U could not possible replicate it exactly with no trouble? The Wii U isn't some crappy low-powered thing, it's slightly more powerful than XBox 360/PS3, with quite a bit more memory. Bloodstained isn't a $50 million AAA game with Pixar-quality models that would really push the hardware, it's a $5 million indie game being made by a small studio designed to look like a 2D game. Project Cars is having problems getting their framerate from a solid 23fps to a solid 30fps true, but Project Cars is an entirely different category - just its tire physics is extremely system intensive, and those cars and tracks have a bazillion polygons.
 
Why do so many people think a very simple 2D game with a few 3D models is going to be such a huge intensive game that the Wii U could not possible replicate it exactly with no trouble? The Wii U isn't some crappy low-powered thing, it's slightly more powerful than XBox 360/PS3, with quite a bit more memory. Bloodstained isn't a $50 million AAA game with Pixar-quality models that would really push the hardware, it's a $5 million indie game being made by a small studio designed to look like a 2D game. Project Cars is having problems getting their framerate from a solid 23fps to a solid 30fps true, but Project Cars is an entirely different category - just its tire physics is extremely system intensive, and those cars and tracks have a bazillion polygons.


Because they think it being in unreal 4 auto means its impossible.
 
Because they think it being in unreal 4 auto means its impossible.

The game being on Unreal 4 doesn't mean anything in regards from a graphical perspective. It is merely an engine to work as a foundation to develop the game.

It is a very efficient engine however that allows certain degrees of freedoms and flexibility rather for example developing a new engine entirely from scratch from the ground up.

You could make a game as simple as Pac-Man or Tetris and STILL run on Unreal 4.

These are Mark Rein's own words - "If someone wants to take Unreal Engine 4 and ship a game on Wii U, they can! If they wanna ship an Unreal Engine 4 game on Xbox 360, they could make it happen." While that game might not look as pretty as it would on a "true" next-gen console, the new engine is scalable to a variety of platforms, including mobile.

As I said the other day, some people are taking the scope of the project beyond what it is. It's a 2.5D based platformer based on the Igavania gameplay archetype.

It's not that Unreal 4 is impossible, It's just that it's not "officially supported"

The Wii U version of the game probably won't be using Unreal 4 anyways.
 
I feel like a lot of people aren't all that familiar with Inti Creates' output. They're developers of primarily handheld games who aren't known for their technical or artistic 3D prowess, and aren't likely to significantly staff up for a single work-for-hire Kickstarter project outside of maybe blowing some of the stretch cash on outsourcing asset creation.

The last thing they're going to do is pull a Ready At Dawn and abruptly start pushing modern technical boundaries.
 
If the counter argument to this being a 2.5D Kickstarter game is "we don't know the true scope of the game", I'd argue that the developers probably do, and there's probably a reason why there's a WiiU version planned and not a 3DS or Vita one (which would sell much better).

Edit: and what the above poster said :P
 
I'm curious, how many of those that backed the game and are against a Wii U version would have still done so had they known a Wii U version was planned?
 
I'm probably going to back at the $60 level.

I'm just waiting until I have money, I'm on a fixed income currently.

I know the Kickstarter ends in 15 days.

I wonder if the Paypal donations will extend beyond the end of the campaign. Because if possible I want to pledge $30 now, and then $30 later when I can afford it, just for that Physical copy of the game.

I mean as far as I am aware the boxed version of the game is Kickstarter only and they won't be producing more physical releases after the fact.

So having a boxed copy might be worth to have due it being a limited edition thing.
 
Well it's not going to reach 3m sooner with that attitude lol

I have the same sentiment, but understand the reluctance when I consider that before this game has the Wii U version built into the backer awards, people could understandably be worried that they might not get the version they want. This might only be a real problem if donating through Paypal, and even then I'm sure they will figure out how to fulfill every order to each backers requests. Receipts and stuff.
 
Suffice it to say I agree with nynt9.

Same. Not making any more big posts about it since we've been going over this since near the start of the thread though.

Basically he notes that future kickstarters may emulate bloodstained if it becomes the most successful, so expect kickstarters with social media achievements and mystery publishers and being run by a 3rd party (fangamer, in the case of bloodstained).

I really hope that that isn't the case. Not because I don't like the campaign, but because I don't really like how fangamer has handled it, or their reasoning for exclusive physical versions. The social media thing probably was a good thing since I've seen a few kickstarters slump and then not get any mention at all on the internet except at the start and end, making me believe that they just were not getting good enough coverage. Also got to give a lot of credit for the tiers since the best physical version is pretty reasonable when I've seen a lot of kickstarters make it crazy expensive. I mean I'm putting as much money into this as I did Torment and that was defiantly a higher tier game for me. The higher cost of entry is also something that most indie kickstarters would not be able to command as well so it may be bad to try for that.

I'm curious, how many of those that backed the game and are against a Wii U version would have still done so had they known a Wii U version was planned?

I would have and did. It was clear from the start that the WiiU was in the basement and it was clear from the first day that this kickstarter was going to reach any stretch goals that they had set forth. The fact that some people are holding out until it reaches a certain stretch goal is laughable since there is no question that it will, and you aren't charged until the kickstarter is complete anyway. Their money could actually make the kickstarter reach those goals faster without any risk to themselves.
 
I'm probably going to back at the $60 level.

I'm just waiting until I have money, I'm on a fixed income currently.

I know the Kickstarter ends in 15 days.

I wonder if the Paypal donations will extend beyond the end of the campaign. Because if possible I want to pledge $30 now, and then $30 later when I can afford it, just for that Physical copy of the game.

I mean as far as I am aware the boxed version of the game is Kickstarter only and they won't be producing more physical releases after the fact.

So having a boxed copy might be worth to have due it being a limited edition thing.

Considering how strict they have been with the Kickstarter bonuses, I highly doubt they'll allow people to use PayPal after the campaign ends to get KS exclusives.

As for the physical copy: they confirmed they will be doing a retail release once the product is ready to be shipped, however, it won't include the Kickstarter exclusives mentioned in the $60 tier.
 
Well I know Durante has said that he'll put his pledge to minimum if a Wii U version exists.

Got to understand that he wouldn't be doing it to try to get it to fall under the goal, as it is going to be met either way, but because of a lack of trust in the development of it at that point. Or I could just be putting words into his mouth.
 
Got to understand that he wouldn't be doing it to try to get it to fall under the goal, as it is going to be met either way, but because of a lack of trust in the development of it at that point. Or I could just be putting words into his mouth.

It's obviously because he has concerns regarding the focus of the project should Wii U development be a thing regardless of the circumstances. He's said as much several times.

As a general statement rather than one targeted toward this specific post: not everyone who has voiced concerns against the Wii U news is against the actual console itself nor the owners of said console despite what many seem to believe in this very thread.
 
Can we stop complaining about the Wii U stretch goal and get back to what's really important, what this thread has been about since the beginning?

Complaining about the art design, the lack of Kojima, every Igavania after Aria of Sorrow, lack of classic Castlevanias, very upfront publisher backing, pricey physical copy tiers and IntiCreates being at the helm?

Can we unite as a community and get this thread back on track?
 
Explain to me what the dungeon key did. Because right now it seems like fuck-all.

It basically unlocked the ability for us to actually collect the additional stretch goals. The wording was very tricky/vague, so a lot of people assumed we'll get to see every single stretch goal in the basement rather than a crap preview of the following goal.
 
Can we stop complaining about the Wii U stretch goal and get back to what's really important, what this thread has been about since the beginning?

Complaining about the art design, the lack of Kojima, every Igavania after Aria of Sorrow, lack of classic Castlevanias, very upfront publisher backing, pricey physical copy tiers and IntiCreates being at the helm?

Can we unite as a community and get this thread back on track?

That sounds equally awful. But I think that might've been your point.
 
It basically unlocked the ability for us to actually collect the additional stretch goals. The wording was very tricky/vague, so a lot of people assumed we'll get to see every single stretch goal in the basement rather than a crap preview of the following goal.

That's really silly.
 
Hope it makes it to the Wii U goal.

Shame even some high profile people here on GAF are complaining about a port. Petty, tbqh.

This thread has been a mess since the project was confirmed. Right from the get-go platform elitists were certain that a Wii U/Vita version would destroy the game even though the Kickstarter explicitly stated in the FAQ that those versions were excluded to begin with to prevent exactly that from happening.

Then we raised six times the original goal and the Wii U version, which was always planned, becomes a reality. Again, they explicitly explain how this will have no impact on the development of the main game.

But people still insist that the Wii U version will damage the main game. They insist that, despite always being the intention of the developers, that said developers are making a mistake and wasting their money when it could be (magically) put into the PC/PS4/X1 version of the game to improve it in nondescript and ambiguous ways.

It's been a stressful ride. GAF has been really sour everywhere I look lately. I don't know what's going on around here. Nobody is interested in talking about how exciting this project is or what they want to see. We just fight.
 
It's been a stressful ride. GAF has been really sour everywhere I look lately. I don't know what's going on around here. Nobody is interested in talking about how exciting this project is or what they want to see. We just fight.

Best brace yourself for E3, excitement of new game announcements to be drowned out by squabbling to be sure.
 
That sounds equally awful. But I think that might've been your point.

A-yup.

I'm normally incredibly cynical and a bit of a downer, always siding on the pessimistic side for most things because the video game industry has not given me a lot of good faith but...

...this project got me super excited again because Igavanias are 1. my favorite genre of game and 2. specifically my favorite series of games

So to see another one get made when there was no chance of it without a Kickstarter makes me deliriously happy.

Which means I'll probably just avoid this thread from now on because the excitement is being drowned out for me.
 
I just want to see it happen, to be honest.

But right now I'm insanely excited about the idea of having a separate classic mode.

For me, if this game only hit 850,000 and we never heard about any of the other stretch goals, I still would have been so excited. But with every stretch goal we've seen, this game has just gotten more and more impressive. Like there is going to be something for everyone. The game is going to be so rich and diverse in content.

I have faith that this game will be excellent. I want to believe it will be IGA's best. He has all the tools he needs. All that remains is his creativity. Does he have his masterpiece in him? We shall see.

But for now, every time I revisit the Kickstarter page, I wish this game was out right now. Because it's a dream game come true.
 
But for now, every time I revisit the Kickstarter page, I wish this game was out right now. Because it's a dream game come true.
I wonder if I'll be able to stay unspoiled for 2 years. Even it doesn't end up great, I really just wanna go in blind and not have negativity impact my hype like with MN9.
 
I wonder if I'll be able to stay unspoiled for 2 years. Even it doesn't end up great, I really just wanna go in blind and not have negativity impact my hype like with MN9.
I ceased reading and MN9 after it was funded. I missed every single drama, and now I'm super hyped that we'll get it soon :P
 
Counting the 51k they have from PayPal we're less than $90,000 away from $3,000,000.

I predict we'll hit the WiiU stretch goal in 24 hours approximately.
 
Let's do this! In a perfect world (AKA not this one) the next stretch goal would be a pixel art version for 3DS and Vita :P
 
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