Koji Igarashi Kickstarts Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night (2.5D, backdash, 2018)
- Thread starter PranooY
- Start date
Alex_Mexico
Member
Hope you and all of the backers that plan to get Bloodstained on WiiU realize y'all might not get the game day one for your console.
Something tells me that in two years when they announce the release date for the game on PS4,XB1 and PC and confirm the WiiU version is coming a little later that we will have a meltdown here of people going apeshit demanding a refund and whatnot.
There's no doubt in my mind that no amounts of cool off-TV and game pad integration (map viewable on it does sound amazing) will make up enough to not call it the least good version. As long as ppl realize it'll most likely be inferior and come out later I so that we can avoid said meltdown we'll be fine.
There are plenty of posts detailing exactly how it could negatively effect things. To state otherwise is willful ignorance.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Could you be so kind as to point me to one? I'm genuinely interested. I haven't come across one of these and I'd like to know
That's all well and good but I'm saying that I don't even think it would've been an option if it was going to cause problems. I have faith in these people to make this game and I'm sure they know all the potential problems that could come from any part of this games development.
AmethystEnd
Member
Seriously. I've already stated that I personally don't care what platforms it comes out on as long as I get to play it, but these random driveby posts that gloss over the actual reasoned arguments from the opposing side like they aren't valid bother the fuck out of me.
I don't think there's any evidence or proof either way. However, that's also not necessary.
Kickstarting is a process of estimating how much you want something, and weighting the potential for it to work out in a way that you get what you want, and pledging accordingly. There's no evidence for anything really, everyone is just acting on likelihoods.
Yes, and most of them are just boil down to the selfish desire to not let the game's vision "be dragged down by an inferior console" despite the fact that they've aloted a budget for it.
Yeah, you can try to reword "a system not for its spec" any which way you want, but to say 2.5D Metroidvanias aren't meant for the Wii U is woefully ignorant too, considering how the second screen just seems to complement these games nicely.
What exactly do you mean by "unfocused"? So far, all I've seen are a series of deliberate and planned decisions. The meaning of the FAQ on Day 1 reads very unambiguous to me. They wanted to use Unreal 4. In the average case scenario where they only barely meet their goal, the know they will have a working budget of $5 Million and have no resources to spend to make a version of the game that would run outside their first 3 targets. However, before this Kickstarter even started, they were clearly interested in supporting the WiiIU audience as well. They calculated how much additional money they would need to get that done and they contracted a developer they believed in to get that done well (who even had the time to prepare a statement on the subject) and would only put that version of the game on the table if sufficient demand was expressed. They did this all specifically so that there would be no blowback on the PC/PS4/Xbone versions. This all reads to me like a development team that was committed to Unreal 4 but took the time and due diligence to figure out how to expand their target audience in the manner that pleases everybody involved. From a planning and conception stage I don't see what they did wrong. What are you seeing that I'm not seeing? I understand your Diablo example but given the history of the franchise and the type of gameplay it tends to express, what realistic issues are you envisioning (if you could be specific that would be great)?
Could you be so kind as to point me to one? I'm genuinely interested. I haven't come across one of these and I'd like to know
Imagine any ways that a video game being cross-gen might hinder it and they're basically all applicable. Compounded with that, imagine any way that a game having to function similarly enough to be considered the same game on two separate engines might cause issues, or cause the developer to not take advantage of features of the more advanced engine and again they are all applicable.
Evidence or proof is perhaps the wrong word, but I mean to say they are saying things which imply ways that the final product could be lessened, compared to the impression given before a WiiU port was a realistically stated possibility.
No one is saying 2.5D Metroidvanias aren't meant for WiiU. I'm saying "This 2.5D metroidvania may end up being a lesser product because it is being designed in such a way that it will function on systems with a wide performance gap." It means that there is a very real likelihood that there are things that may have been implemented which take advantage of the more advanced platforms that they decide not to because they want it to be back scaleable to the older platforms.
The prospect of the game a person is backing before a WiiU version is planned, and the prospect of the game a person is backing after a WiiU version is planned are two prospects with an appreciable difference.
I believe unfocused is referring to stuff like the stretch goals that are vague in what they will actually be offering.
charlequin
Banned
Look, the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the idea that someone, somewhere might not want a Wii U version is obviously absurd, but you guys are working yourselves up over a monster of your own creation.
No, there is not "realistic evidence" that this port will affect the main version of the game in any way, and to assume it will is to let excitability and paranoia get the better of sober consideration. This is a game being funded by a publisher, with the port being handled by a completely different team. They're not going to be siphoning arbitrary amounts of money for the port team (if they have this stretch goal at all, it's because Deep Silver decided they would put up the difference on it if they could make it to a specific funding level) and they're not going to be looking fearfully over their shoulder to make sure they don't accidentally do something that's difficult to port (this is, indeed, the entire purpose of handing porting out to an external team.) Budgetary dollars don't come close to translating one-to-one to game quality (as we've already seen with past projects) and it's likely that porting funds would otherwise be sitting in a rainy-day fund anyway to avoid arbitrary scope creep.
The reality of the situation is that the Wii U version will almost assuredly be a bad port (because almost all handed-off ports to less-powerful systems are ultimately pretty bad) and it will probably perform pretty poorly (because approximately no one is going to be buying their games primarily on Wii U in 2017) but it's not going to magically make for a worse game except inasmuch as people lather themselves up over it and go in poking at every corner looking for Wii U cooties. If you don't like it, you don't like it, but trying to pose it as some kind of rational, detached opposition doesn't do the discussion in this thread any favors.
And as for the other side of this equation:
Like, I think in general people need to understand in general that even with a stretch goal, the Wii U is an afterthought and consider their choices with that in mind. It is not going to look as nice. It will probably not run as well. It will very possibly not come out at the same time. It almost certainly won't get any serious post-launch support, even if the main version is getting feature updates. If offscreen play is really valuable to you (I'm talking the abstract "you" here), or you're a huge fan and plan on getting multiple versions anyway, then sure, fine. But people really need to have realistic expectations and understand this stretch goal in that context. (And it should go without saying that any manner of obnoxious schadenfreude gloating is not going to fly.)
In short, I would really prefer it if people could accept that pretty much anyone actually talking about the Wii U version here is being irrational at some level and maybe try to talk about literally any other aspect of the campaign or game itself?
Yeh, I stated in another post that evidence wasn't the right word to use but I clarified my thoughts above.
Yeah it's kinda sad. I only plan on playing this game on Steam but the more people that get to play this game the better.
charlequin
Banned
I'm just saying, in the time you've taken writing these posts about a problem that's probably not going to exist, you could have made yourself a sandwich or something and improved your life more than IGA dropping the Wii U goal would.
I mean, if theres any place thats great for attempting to articulate thoughtfully the reason you feel a certain way about something, I figured a message board would probably be that place...
Bots are better than you
Banned
Can only speak for myself, but i'm hoping for a new reward tier, i would love to go physical for Wii U if the goal is met and get the PS4 version digital. Best of both worlds, and i will end up having and playing the game on multiple systems not matter what.
Although ... the PS4 version should be available over PSN day one, so i just get it from the store, if there won't be any combo-reward.
AmethystEnd
Member
I hope everyone who is upset over whatever they are upset over just pull their pledges and tank this Kickstarter, so no one gets anything. That way I will get what I wanted all along!
What happened to "I'm back, but this time I'm not an asshole!"?In the hopes of changing the topic of discussion, I'm moving these points here:
A) So Ben Judd had an interview going over his career, insight into the Japanese game industry, more on this Kickstarter, etc. It's a great read. I'm not 100% if this is the topic for it but I figured I might as well post it here.
B) Also apparently, someone put up a forum for this game (I have no idea why since the game is still 2 years out but whatever). This topic caught my eye because it went over some classical artist interpretations of the 72 demons of the Lesser Key of Solomon. Will be interesting to see how close the enemies of the game come close to those old concepts.
Show us on the Saya doll where IGA touched you
A) So Ben Judd had an interview going over his career, insight into the Japanese game industry, more on this Kickstarter, etc. It's a great read. I'm not 100% if this is the topic for it but I figured I might as well post it here.
B) Also apparently, someone put up a forum for this game (I have no idea why since the game is still 2 years out but whatever). This topic caught my eye because it went over some classical artist interpretations of the 72 demons of the Lesser Key of Solomon. Will be interesting to see how close the enemies of the game come close to those old concepts.
I hope everyone who is upset over whatever they are upset over just pull their pledges and tank this Kickstarter, so no one gets anything. That way I will get what I wanted all along!
Show us on the Saya doll where IGA touched you
CaviarMeths
Member
I don't think the arguments against cross-gen games apply at all. We're talking about a 2.5D Igavania game here, not a AAA Assassin's Creed or Call of Duty. The concern is the engine, not the specs.
UE4 does not officially support Wii U, but the source code is open for anyone who wants to adapt it. The easier option though is to probably do what the developers of Red Goddess are doing, moving the Wii U version over to UE3. I don't know enough about either engine to say what that means, but I think it will mean less sophisticated lighting and shaders? No idea outside of that.
And that would likely be a cost covered by the publisher, not by KS backers, as it was planned at the beginning. If Armature is on board with this, they likely have been for weeks. I don't think your dollars are at risk of being spent carelessly.
At any rate, concern should rest entirely with Wii U backers and not at all with PC/PS4/XB1 backers.
I blame the bad influence from the last few pages in the thread. Negativity begets negativity...
AmethystEnd
Member
Theonik
Member
Bad Duckroll bad
I hope everyone who is upset over whatever they are upset over just pull their pledges and tank this Kickstarter, so no one gets anything. That way I will get what I wanted all along!
I hope you get banned for trolling this thread.
ShogunDarius
Member
I dont really mind if a wii u port is being made, what I find somewhat perplexing is, are all the die hard wii u people so sure there arent going to get a pc, a ps4 or an xbox one in the next 2 years?
:Motorbass
Member
Oh yeah, Wii U port is reachable! Awesome. Now I can back it. Local CoOp might be glorious
pretty sure, yes
Pretty sure, yeah. I don't play at home very much, and when I do it's usually offscreen on the gamepad. I don't think I could really justify having another games machine.
Given infinite free time and money, I'd love to play everything, it's not a question of disliking anything in particular (there's loads of PS4/PC stuff I'd like to play).
AmethystEnd
Member
Sir_Crocodile
Member
I think that was hit a couple of days ago.
AmethystEnd
Member
Oh, right. I got that stretch goal and the Wii U one mixed up in my head.
Pain and suffering? duckroll confirmed for being the devilI hope everyone who is upset over whatever they are upset over just pull their pledges and tank this Kickstarter, so no one gets anything. That way I will get what I wanted all along!
So Robbie Belgrade, the original (and best) Alucard is on-board. Things I imagine him saying-
"I've come to destroy this Kickstarter." - hinthint Duckroll. Surely $1000 is worth it to hear that.
"It's dangerous to go alone - Take this."
"Heihachi Mishima Wins--wait, wrong game!"
"I've come to destroy this Kickstarter." - hinthint Duckroll. Surely $1000 is worth it to hear that.
"It's dangerous to go alone - Take this."
"Heihachi Mishima Wins--wait, wrong game!"
I must say, the addition of a Wii U port does seem weird. Obviously, it will have to be designed separately using a different engine, but it's more about where the Wii U will be in two or more years. Seriously, the Wii U isn't doing well...what's it going to be like in 2017?
BassForever
Member
*enters thread expecting excitement over new announcement*
*sees MORE WiiU whining on both sides*
This is truly the first KS I've seen where a WiiU port was viewed so negatively despite being for a series revival that has largely been on low powered hand helds.
I'm excited to see them getting Alucard back, I wonder if he'll be playing this games Alucard or if he'll have the role of a boss.
*sees MORE WiiU whining on both sides*
This is truly the first KS I've seen where a WiiU port was viewed so negatively despite being for a series revival that has largely been on low powered hand helds.
I'm excited to see them getting Alucard back, I wonder if he'll be playing this games Alucard or if he'll have the role of a boss.
Unknown Soldier
Member
I hope everyone who is upset over whatever they are upset over just pull their pledges and tank this Kickstarter, so no one gets anything. That way I will get what I wanted all along!
Well you heard it here first guys, it's time for everyone to do their part and increase their pledges ASAP!
Say whaaaaaaat!?
I haven't been following this thread so much since all the Wii U bickering started. Just checked out the Kickstarter page and...
It's true. I don't believe it.
My prayers have been answered.
I still want Robert Belgrade to do a voice in the game.
Thank you IGA. You may have my money
in a week
Now, everyone listen to this in celebration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeM7paJ17YM
ShogunDarius
Member
.
Like Hayter, he'll have a role and voice a special message for the $1k backers.
AmethystEnd
Member
I somehow missed that it was even getting a Japanese dub. Hayter clouded my mind.
Can't wait to see who they get for voice actors for the Japanese dub.
Then there's no question about it, I'll have to extort the money.
As much as I am hoping that Miriam isn't basically a repeat of Shanoa, I would really like it if she had the same va (Houko Kuwashima). I doubt they'll announce any casting on the Japanese side until after the KS has long finished though.
AmethystEnd
Member
I do love her voice.
:Motorbass
Member
Yeah, she's great.
Hmm, I don't know. Speed Run Versus maybe?
Perhaps speed run leader boards?
OmegaDL50
Member
Hopefully to get this discussion on a better track.
In Symphony of the Night regardless of whatever weapon Alucard equipped his attack animation for swinging his weapon was the same regardless whatever it was.
The only difference mind you was the individual weapon effects. Such as the Crissaegrim and it's invisible blades or the Shield Rod, weapons looked different in this regard but Alucard own animation didn't change.
Wouldn't be nice if Miriam when equipped with a Sword her attacks would be appropriate for a sword user, and instead if she equipped a Whip her animations change enough that it accommodates a whip fighting style, rather then say have a basic attack animation that is a one-size-fits-all approach like it was in SOTN.
I think even Aria of Sorrow had individual attack animations for certain weapons, so I don't see why this is something difficult to implement.
TL
R, If Miriam is equipped with a Sword her play style is reminiscent of Alucard, but if she has a Whip equipped her style changes up so that's it's similar to controlling a Belmont-like character.
In Symphony of the Night regardless of whatever weapon Alucard equipped his attack animation for swinging his weapon was the same regardless whatever it was.
The only difference mind you was the individual weapon effects. Such as the Crissaegrim and it's invisible blades or the Shield Rod, weapons looked different in this regard but Alucard own animation didn't change.
Wouldn't be nice if Miriam when equipped with a Sword her attacks would be appropriate for a sword user, and instead if she equipped a Whip her animations change enough that it accommodates a whip fighting style, rather then say have a basic attack animation that is a one-size-fits-all approach like it was in SOTN.
I think even Aria of Sorrow had individual attack animations for certain weapons, so I don't see why this is something difficult to implement.
TL
R, If Miriam is equipped with a Sword her play style is reminiscent of Alucard, but if she has a Whip equipped her style changes up so that's it's similar to controlling a Belmont-like character.