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[Kevinroc]

that's what happens when you end up on the wrong side of #Cyclopswasright

The guy who walked out on his wife and baby because his ex came back to life?

 

[Parallax]

Cyke is the dude that deals with the reality he's given. And the fact that he gets crap while people will defend the Illuminati, Scarlet Witch, Wolverine, Cap, or whatever, is simple randomness.

Schism? I've already gone over why he's 100 percent right, but let me restate it: Mutants live in a fictional universe predicated on conflict, those who don't fight or know how to defend themselves will inevitably die. Phoenix shit? Bro had Cable for the future telling him how everything would work out if the Avengers had their way. AvX? You don't come to my house with an army and demand I hand over a child, no questions asked, especially after you were incognito over my people's most horrible genocidal events when you should've been there protecting them. Xavier's death? Scott will take that L and has - which is odd, because no one hated Wolverine over being brainwashed and killing Northstar or Jean for annihilating an entire planet - even though everyone kicked Xavier out years ago for enslaving Danger.

Marvel Now? What has Scott really done? Saved mutants? That's what the X-Men are supposed to do. Punked the Avengers? So? Aired a legitimate grievance on TV? Talked to an Omega-level mutant instead of bombing him into oblivion?

Seriously, people hate him, but it's over nothing more than not coloring inside the lines.

first mistake right there, though, the future isnt that simple. hell bishop came from one where things didnt work out because of the girl . taking future events in account in the present is always a means to make things worse

 

[guek]

Cyke is the dude that deals with the reality he's given. And the fact that he gets crap while people will defend the Illuminati, Scarlet Witch, Wolverine, Cap, or whatever, is simple randomness.

Schism? I've already gone over why he's 100 percent right, but let me restate it: Mutants live in a fictional universe predicated on conflict, those who don't fight or know how to defend themselves will inevitably die. Full stop, in every case. Phoenix shit? Bro had Cable for the future telling him how everything would work not out if the Avengers had their way. AvX? You don't come to my house with an army and demand I hand over a child, no questions asked, especially after you were incognito over my people's most horrible genocidal events when you should've been there protecting them. Xavier's death? Scott will take that L and has - which is odd, because no one hated Wolverine over being brainwashed and killing Northstar or Jean for annihilating an entire planet - even though everyone kicked Xavier out years ago for enslaving Danger.

Marvel Now? What has Scott really done? Saved mutants? That's what the X-Men are supposed to do. Punked the Avengers? So? Aired a legitimate grievance on TV? Talked to an Omega-level mutant instead of bombing him into oblivion?

Seriously, people hate him, but it's over nothing more than not coloring inside the lines.

I don't agree with everything above but keep in mind, I never said Scott was fully in the wrong. Mistakes were made on all sides. I just don't enjoy his character anymore.

 

[Coriolanus]

All of what you listed as irrelevant were only so in hindsight. That doesn't make any of it right. But yes, they absolutely should have involved Doom. Even if they hadn't gotten the world at large involved, a course of action I could understand and stand behind, they still should have told more people. They lucked out in the end but who is to say it couldn't have gotten there a different way? And if they had ended at the same conclusions, at least they'd know they got there together rather than fragmented and at each other's throats. Doom saved them all but the Illuminati didn't even know they were helping him to begin with.

Even if they had gotten Vic involved, none of them would have ever agreed to MM's plan. Heck, none of them would have liked to be in the same room as MM, let alone listen to him.

As for the bolded, whatever could have happened is irrelevant. What matters is what happened. You cannot judge someone on hypotheticals.

But sure, they should've gone to the world. Then there'd be no Cabal. Fair's fair, two major fuckups.

 

[guek]

Even if they had gotten Vic involved, none of them would have ever agreed to MM's plan. Heck, none of them would have liked to be in the same room as MM, let alone listen to him.

As for the bolded, whatever could have happened is irrelevant. What matters is what happened. You cannot judge someone on hypotheticals.

But sure, they should've gone to the world. Then there'd be no Cabal. Fair's fair, two major fuckups.

lol, you say you can't judge based on hypotheticals right after putting forth a hypothetical reaction to Doom's involvement. At the end of the day, it's all fiction, it all could have been written whatever way Hickman desired. I don't have a problem with how things turned out, I think Hickman's run has been phenomenal. I just don't agree that the only mistake the Illuminati made was not involving Doom.

 

[Coriolanus]

lol, you say you can't judge based on hypotheticals right after putting forth a hypothetical reaction to Doom's involvement.

Assuming how one would react is not the same as convicting based on how one could've reacted.

 

[guek]

Assuming how one would react is not the same as convicting based on how one could've reacted.

Who said anything about convicting? I'm just saying what I believe they should have done rather than what they did, which you did as well.

Unless you're talking about what I said about them building the bombs, which is a much grayer area as far as legal action is concerned. All I was saying was that they should have taken more responsibility for their choices leading to what happened rather than exclusively blaming Namor.

 

[The Silver]

The guy who walked out on his wife and baby because his ex came back to life?

yes that guy, there a problem here?

 

[shadyspace]

Val is totally an asshole.

 

[Squire]

It's interesting Pryor is in a position of power in Battleworld. Curious to see when/how Cyke shows up (not that they would necessarily know one another.)

Btw, do we think that new recruit Thor is Odinsom reincarnated? Or just a random grunt?

 

[J10]

The Infinity Gauntlet #2 cover art looks pretty sick.

 

[googleplex]

The guy who walked out on his wife and baby because his ex came back to life?

Not that it matters, but that was an editorial mandate from the head of marvel at the time.

Scott leaving the X-men to be with Madeline Pryor was supposed to be his happily ever after. Unfortunately for his characterization. Marvel wanted all of the original X-men back together. So they brought Jean back from the dead and had Scott leave his wife and child.

That as severely out of character for a man that is all about loyalty.

 

[Sou Da]

Why is Cyclops being "right" even a debate? He was very clearly in the right in both big conflicts but was put in the wrong because Wolverine is Wolverine and there was no way the rest of the world was going to continue let him going with that much power in AvX.

 

[MHWilliams]

first mistake right there, though, the future isnt that simple. hell bishop came from one where things didnt work out. taking future events in account in the present is always a means to make things worse

I concede this point.

I don't agree with everything above but keep in mind, I never said Scott was fully in the wrong. Mistakes were made on all sides. I just don't enjoy his character anymore.

Ah, carry on then.

 

[mreddie]

Val is totally an asshole.

She is technically Doom's kid.

 

[Infinite Stars]

I just finished reading Infinity Gauntlet #1 and uh..well..It wasn't really my thing. I like the art, I like the idea, but It's just not fitting with me.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

She is technically Doom's kid.

Don't you mean she is totally Reed's kid?

 

[mreddie]

Don't you mean she is totally Reed's kid?

Timely wimey wibbly wobbly.

 

[exmachina64]

Not that it matters, but that was an editorial mandate from the head of marvel at the time.

Scott leaving the X-men to be with Madeline Pryor was supposed to be his happily ever after. Unfortunately for his characterization. Marvel wanted all of the original X-men back together. So they brought Jean back from the dead and had Scott leave his wife and child.

That as severely out of character for a man that is all about loyalty.

I never knew this.

 

[kswiston]

Timely wimey wibbly wobbly.

She was never Doom's kid. Even the original Claremont version of her was Reed's.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

She was never Doom's kid. Even the original Claremont version of her was Reed's.

Yup. She obviously inherited being an asshole from Reed.

 

[mreddie]

She was never Doom's kid. Even the original Claremont version of her was Reed's.

So the whole Valeria Von Doom turns ages backwards to being in Sue's belly meant nothing then?

 

[Parallax]

Why is Cyclops being "right" even a debate? He was very clearly in the right in both big conflicts but was put in the wrong because Wolverine is Wolverine and there was no way the rest of the world was going to continue let him going with that much power in AvX.

because he wasnt right in avx. Noone was. people keep missing that point. Both groups needed each other, but were too proud or stubborn to admit it.

So the whole Valeria Von Doom turns ages backwards to being in Sue's belly meant nothing then?

That was reed under the mask if i remember right

 

[kswiston]

So the whole Valeria Von Doom turns ages backwards to being in Sue's belly meant nothing then?

In the future that Valeria Von Doom was from, Reed Richards was Doom.

 

[mreddie]

In the future that Valeria Von Doom was from, Reed Richards was Doom.

Ok, this is insane.

 

[Ke0]

Cyclops, the bloke who had the power of Phoenix and instead of trying to restart the mutant species he flies to the moon to make moon dust versions of Jean.

Heh.

 

[Kevinroc]

Ok, this is insane.

It gets even more insane because Val was originally the child that Sue miscarried back in the 1980s. Franklin instead shunted his sister off into the multiverse, where she was raised as Valeria Von Doom. Once the threat of Abraxas was dealt with, Val was shunted back into her mother's womb.

Doctor Doom later ended up delivering the child when Reed was unavailable.

 

[lil]

Comics are weird, man. I'm reading the original X-Men and it's so cute and simple in comparison to the wacky stuff I'm reading itt. I am dreading the point where I catch up.

 

[kswiston]

Comics are weird, man. I'm reading the original X-Men and it's so cute and simple in comparison to the wacky stuff I'm reading itt. I am dreading the point where I catch up.

It's usually not that bad when you are following month to month (though the odd story line is out there from day 1). However, when you get a compressed cliffnotes version of 50 years of stories, it will sound insane.

 

[Squire]

Not that it matters, but that was an editorial mandate from the head of marvel at the time.

Scott leaving the X-men to be with Madeline Pryor was supposed to be his happily ever after. Unfortunately for his characterization. Marvel wanted all of the original X-men back together. So they brought Jean back from the dead and had Scott leave his wife and child.

That as severely out of character for a man that is all about loyalty.

I'm not taking Scott off my shit list, but in all fairness: I'm pretty sure that's a detail that matters.

 

[mreddie]

It gets even more insane because Val was originally the child that Sue miscarried back in the 1980s. Franklin instead shunted his sister off into the multiverse, where she was raised as Valeria Von Doom. Once the threat of Abraxas was dealt with, Val was shunted back into her mother's womb.

Doctor Doom later ended up delivering the child when Reed was unavailable.

And Doom named her after his lover... who he killed.

 

[exmachina64]

Comics are weird, man. I'm reading the original X-Men and it's so cute and simple in comparison to the wacky stuff I'm reading itt. I am dreading the point where I catch up.

Just wait till you get to the part that intersects with your avatar.

 

[lil]

It's usually not that bad when you are following month to month (though the odd story line is out there from day 1). However, when you get a compressed cliffnotes version of 50 years of stories, it will sound insane.

Hahaha, this is fair. I think you could give a cliffnotes version of just about any long-running thing that makes it sound nuts.

Just wait till you get to the part that intersects with your avatar.

Oh Lord no. D: I've heard some of the things poor Carol was subjected to (and look, yet another weird comic book pregnancy!) and I'm already terrified, lol.

 

[kswiston]

And Doom named her after his lover... who he killed.

To make a suit of enchanted human skin armor.

That part sort of gets glossed over by Doom fans trying to cast him as an antihero.

Several Marvel heroes are dicks, but they don't go around flaying their first loves in a scheme to show their arch rival that they totally are the best.

 

[Slayven]

To make a suit of enchanted human skin armor.

That part sort of gets glossed over by Doom fans trying to cast him as an antihero.

I always found that Unthinkable of the fans. I love Doom, but Doom is an asshole.

He also kidnapped a few women and gave them superpowers

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I always found that Unthinkable of the fans. I love Doom, but Doom is an asshole.

He also kidnapped a few women and gave them superpowers

He's a sociopathic genocidal megalomaniac.

One of the smartest minds in his universe, but an evil bastard all the same.

In no way does Doom come close to an antihero. That is pure crazy.

 

[Ke0]

He's a sociopathic genocidal megalomaniac.

One of the smartest minds in his universe, but an evil bastard all the same.

In no way does Doom come close to an antihero. That is pure crazy.

Seems fitting that Doom sees himself as God no?

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Seems fitting that Doom sees himself as God no?

Very!

 

[Slayven]

He's a sociopathic genocidal megalomaniac.

One of the smartest minds in his universe, but an evil bastard all the same.

In no way does Doom come close to an antihero. That is pure crazy.

And he is so unapologetic about it. That is why he is so good to read

"Listen to Doom, you will live and die by Doom's whims. And if Doom feels like it Doom will keep you as a pet until Doom finds a better use for you. For Doom eats first and he eats best"

Not like the other Doom ripoffs like Lex Luthor and The Master of The World, who pretends to be for the greater good.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

And he is so unapologetic about it. That is why he is so good to read

"Listen to Doom, you will live and die by Doom's whims. And if Doom feels like it Doom will keep you as a pet until Doom finds a better use for you. For Doom eats first and he eats best"

Oh, don't get me wrong.

I love the character, but some peeps have to be totally deluded to think he's anywhere approaching the antihero archetype.

Doom is always the villain. He just happens to be one that occasionally finds himself on the right side. Like Magneto.

A case could be made that Magneto is an antihero. He's definitely toyed with that time to time, but Doom? Definitely no.

 

[Kevinroc]

Doom is just so petty. The only reason he delivered baby Val was because he was told Reed couldn't. And he rubbed it in Reed's face afterwards.

Doom is absolutely fascinating to read about, but he is just a completely petty monster.

 

[Slayven]

Oh, don't get me wrong.

I love the character, but some peeps have to be totally deluded to think he's anywhere approaching the antihero archetype.

Doom is always the villain. He just happens to be one that occasionally finds himself on the right side. Like Magneto.

I will say this out of all the super villain world take over guys, I rather live under Doom's heel then others.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I will say this out of all the super villain world take over guys, I rather live under Doom's heel then others.

If you're a reasonably powerful mutant Magneto would be another.

 

[Slayven]

If you're a reasonably powerful mutant Magneto would be another.

With my luck my mutant power would be the same as Glob's

 

[Thunder Monkey]

With my luck my mutant power would be the same as Glob's

I'd probably mutate into a small monkey.

Toad tier basically.

Though I honestly wouldn't mind being Mags jester.

 

[Parallax]

Doom is just so petty. The only reason he delivered baby Val was because he was told Reed couldn't. And he rubbed it in Reed's face afterwards.

Doom is absolutely fascinating to read about, but he is just a completely petty monster.

I think thats why reed has so many people that try to throw things in his face. He simply doesnt give them the attention they crave. Namor goes on one of his rants about sue? He just shruggs it off and continues with what he was doing. Doom brags about being good with valeria? he goes back to eating his sandwich that he just made with a sandwich ray. That in turn pisses them off that they need to find other ways to try to get under his skin. Which we all know what does.

I will say this out of all the super villain world take over guys, I rather live under Doom's heel then others.

id live under certain kangs.

 

[Slayven]

I'd probably mutate into a small monkey.

Toad tier basically.

Though I honestly wouldn't mind being Mags jester.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

Christ, they really have done everything in comics...

 

[Thunder Monkey]

With Doom you don't go into living in Latveria looking for political freedom.

You go into it looking for stability.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Jesus...

I'd completely forgotten about that.