Microsoft/Phil Spencer to appear at PC Gamer/AMD's PC gaming show at E3

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MrNyarlathotep said:
Are we pretending that DX12 offering significant performance boosts is because they're just great guys who really want to see PC gamers getting the most out of their machines, and not because AMD and DICE were already getting there with low level non-Microsoft APIs, and the last thing in the world MS wants is better performance on an OS that isn't sold by MS?
Click to expand...
I was about to make the same post more or less.

What we are supposed to believe:
  1. Phil Spencer, empowered by the spirit of Nadella, recognized the sorry state of DX11.
  2. He single-handedly crafted DX12 out of his sweat and tears and the love he feels in his heart for PC gamers.
  3. Through his heroic effort, your hardware will be 100% faster now!

Here's what happened:
  1. AMD created a low-overhead API, and was opening it up to the Khronos group for broad adoption.
  2. Microsoft aren't idiots and realized that the only reason they are at all relevant in PC gaming these days is DirectX. If DirectX goes, then so does Windows' hold on PC gaming. Ergo...
  3. They actually put effort in PC graphics API development for the first time since 2009 and produced D3D12.
  4. ... but of course, it's still Windows 10 exclusive, even though 99% of its advantages could easily be achieved on any post-Vista Windows.
 
Kinthalis said:
Again, this is mostly a problem that only exists in communities like NeoGaf. NeoGaf is NOT representative of the larger console base out there.

Those people don't buy x version of a game because of ANYTHING other than marketing.

No one is going to tell them to buy the PC version instead, the vast majority don't even own a gaming PC. The only place core audiences for console and PC intermingle is in enthusiast driven places like NeoGaf.

There is only a problem when Microsoft releases Halo for PS4. THAT would likely mean lost sales of the Xbone. Halo 5 on PC would only mean a few lost Xbone sales, and millions of PC sales.
Click to expand...

If you're right then we already can play 99% of console games on PC, which still not happened.
Besides, why MS need to be the first one to do that(put their flagship title to PC)
 
Kinthalis said:
Again, this is mostly a problem that only exists in communities like NeoGaf. NeoGaf is NOT representative of the larger console base out there.

Those people don't buy x version of a game because of ANYTHING other than marketing.

No one is going to tell them to buy the PC version instead, the vast majority don't even own a gaming PC. The only place core audiences for console and PC intermingle is in enthusiast driven places like NeoGaf.

There is only a problem when Microsoft releases Halo for PS4. THAT would likely mean lost sales of the Xbone. Halo 5 on PC would only mean a few lost Xbone sales, and millions of PC sales.
Click to expand...

Hopefully now that MS has their a store to sell those games they will allow more of those games to come over. Whether folk buy the game on XB1 or PC the game drives folk into the MS ecosystem, and they see 100% of the profits.

The only problem is how to make sure you don't loose XB1 gold members or are able find something other than paid multiplayer to drive subscriptions on both platforms.
 
Durante said:
I was about to make the same post more or less.

What we are supposed to believe:
  1. Phil Spencer, empowered by the spirit of Nadella, recognized the sorry state of DX11.
  2. He single-handedly crafted DX12 out of his sweat and tears and the love he feels in his heart for PC gamers.
  3. Through his heroic effort, your hardware will be 100% faster now!

Here's what happened:
  1. AMD created a low-overhead API, and was opening it up to the Khronos group for broad adoption.
  2. Microsoft aren't idiots and realized that the only reason they are at all relevant in PC gaming these days is DirectX. If DirectX goes, then so does Windows' hold on PC gaming. Ergo...
  3. They actually put effort in PC graphics API development for the first time since 2009 and produced D3D12.
  4. ... but of course, it's still Windows 10 exclusive, even though 99% of its advantages could easily be achieved on any post-Vista Windows.
Click to expand...

Thankfully, it's a free upgrade.
 
chadskin said:
CBBu9COWwAAPzZB.jpg:large

https://twitter.com/renderpipeline/status/581086347450007553

Tehehe
Click to expand...

Damn, so much of the wording is identical... o_O
 
Durante said:
I was about to make the same post more or less.

What we are supposed to believe:
  1. Phil Spencer, empowered by the spirit of Nadella, recognized the sorry state of DX11.
  2. He single-handedly crafted DX12 out of his sweat and tears and the love he feels in his heart for PC gamers.
  3. Through his heroic effort, your hardware will be 100% faster now!

Here's what happened:
  1. AMD created a low-overhead API, and was opening it up to the Khronos group for broad adoption.
  2. Microsoft aren't idiots and realized that the only reason they are at all relevant in PC gaming these days is DirectX. If DirectX goes, then so does Windows' hold on PC gaming. Ergo...
  3. They actually put effort in PC graphics API development for the first time since 2009 and produced D3D12.
  4. ... but of course, it's still Windows 10 exclusive, even though 99% of its advantages could easily be achieved on any post-Vista Windows.
Click to expand...

It's a Windows 10 exclusive because they are giving everyone with Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 Windows 10 for free.

But sure, ignore that little fact.
 
Maximilian Kolbe said:
Problem is the feeling.
Think about the reaction if Sony port their every PS4 exclusive to PC after 1-2 years.
Click to expand...

Huh?

Are you saying if you saw Red Dead Redemption on the PC you would somehow feel "bad" that you enjoyed it on the Xbox 360? I don't get what you're saying.

Somnia said:
Holy hell the console wars have even migrated to here but this time PC vs MS (which granted has been going on longer)

Why can't people accept that this is a new MS and it takes time to build up these things. The new CEO and Phil have said PC Gaming is a focus for them, this is not Mattrick and Balmer saying it anymore. Do we know if they are serious? Who knows, but why just immediately count them out?
Click to expand...

Sorry. When it comes to gaming Microsoft doesn't get a pass from me just because they "say" something.

I've been in their camp off and on since 1999. I'll need more than words and INITIAL actions before I get excited by anything they do.
 
LewieP said:
It's pretty amazing that Sony are less hostile towards PC gamers than Microsoft are.
Click to expand...

Sony are working with Capcom on SFV, which is coming to PC as well as PS4, what else have they done that is for PC gaming? Do they even provide official Playstation drivers for Dualshock 4?

Everybody's Gone to the Rapture was originally a PC game, now PS4 exclusive, I don't have a problem with that, they're funding it now and thats how they operate but thats hardly a pro PC move.

Ori was originally 360 only, then they moved it to Xbox One/PC day 1. MS seemingly let Crytek port Ryse to PC(?), MS funding DR3 saved it and it came to PC later, State of Decay is PC/Xbox (Microsoft IP), Press Plays games have come over etc.

I mean, if you want to criticise Microsoft, then I guess thats fair enough, but Sony aren't exactly doing much for the PC space, they sold SoE as well so their PC presence outside of SFV is... nil? I don't think MS are all that hostile to it, as I said earlier, they've been upping sort, more will come. Just because they don't bring over ever game, doesn't mean they are "hostile", I don't think DX12 is hostile regardless of why theyre doing it
 
Somnia said:
Holy hell the console wars have even migrated to here but this time PC vs MS (which granted has been going on longer)

Why can't people accept that this is a new MS and it takes time to build up these things. The new CEO and Phil have said PC Gaming is a focus for them, this is not Mattrick and Balmer saying it anymore. Do we know if they are serious? Who knows, but why just immediately count them out?

Also Phil openly said they would discuss Windows 10 and PC Gaming at their conference to those saying they can't be bothered showing it at their own show, they planned to from the get go, but I bet due to this PC Gaming show they decided to sponsor it and move their PC Gaming talk over to this to target that audience who will be watching, it's not some giant conspiracy jesus.
Click to expand...
It's not like we should just trust them because there's new folks at the helm. After so many years of spitting bullshit about how much they care about the PC.

We're going to need some tangible evidence at this point, regardless of who's in charge.

And the one variable that's seemingly being forgotten in this debate, is the idea that Spencer is trying to sell you an Xbox One, first and foremost, which breaks the whole logic.
 
Somnia said:
Holy hell the console wars have even migrated to here but this time PC vs MS (which granted has been going on longer)

Why can't people accept that this is a new MS and it takes time to build up these things. The new CEO and Phil have said PC Gaming is a focus for them, this is not Mattrick and Balmer saying it anymore. Do we know if they are serious? Who knows, but why just immediately count them out?

Also Phil openly said they would discuss Windows 10 and PC Gaming at their conference to those saying they can't be bothered showing it at their own show, they planned to from the get go, but I bet due to this PC Gaming show they decided to sponsor it and move their PC Gaming talk over to this to target that audience who will be watching, it's not some giant conspiracy jesus.
Click to expand...

The arguments are indeed based on the past, but rightly people don't simply jump to trusting and adoring Microsoft following a few employee / rank / strategy changes. They will have to prove it for years consistently before people actually trust in them. What you see now is exactly the response that should be expected after years of poor implementations, empty promises and failures. I'm always open to things improving, but there is plenty of history to be very sceptical rather than trusting.
 
legacyzero said:
It's not like we should just trust them because there's new folks at the helm. After so many years of spitting bullshit about how much they care about the PC.

We're going to need some tangible evidence at this point, regardless of who's in charge.

And the one variable that's seemingly being forgotten in this debate, is the idea that Spencer is trying to sell you an Xbox One, first and foremost, which breaks the whole logic.
Click to expand...

No tangible evidence. People provide tangible evidence. I'll just ignore that.

Primethius said:
Lol.. you realize that your fact doesn't actually address his point at all, right?
Click to expand...

LOL... you realize that I wasn't arguing against his primary point but merely replying to his last statement, right?
 
LewieP said:
It's pretty amazing that Sony are less hostile towards PC gamers than Microsoft are.
Click to expand...

Before Sony sold off SOE, Sony were vastly more relevant to PC gamers than MS has been in well over a decade.

FordGTGuy said:
All we know is that AMD is in full support of it and that's pretty odd behavior for a "competitor".
Click to expand...

Sorry, I think it is pretty fucking telling that a third party engine developer (DICE) and a graphics card manufacturer had to figuratively light a fire under Microsofts arse to get a significant change to the DX rendering APIs.
 
Durante said:
I was about to make the same post more or less.

What we are supposed to believe:
  1. Phil Spencer, empowered by the spirit of Nadella, recognized the sorry state of DX11.
  2. He single-handedly crafted DX12 out of his sweat and tears and the love he feels in his heart for PC gamers.
  3. Through his heroic effort, your hardware will be 100% faster now!

Here's what happened:
  1. AMD created a low-overhead API, and was opening it up to the Khronos group for broad adoption.
  2. Microsoft aren't idiots and realized that the only reason they are at all relevant in PC gaming these days is DirectX. If DirectX goes, then so does Windows' hold on PC gaming. Ergo...
  3. They actually put effort in PC graphics API development for the first time since 2009 and produced D3D12.
  4. ... but of course, it's still Windows 10 exclusive, even though 99% of its advantages could easily be achieved on any post-Vista Windows.
Click to expand...

Yeah, especially after seeing chadskin's Twitter link, DX12 was less of a product of goodwill and more of a product of not wanting to lose a significant portion of PC gamers.
 
MrNyarlathotep said:
Before Sony sold off SOE, Sony were vastly more relevant to PC gamers than MS has been in well over a decade.
Click to expand...

No they aren't.....


MrNyarlathotep said:
Sorry, I think it is pretty fucking telling that a third party engine developer (DICE) and a graphics card manufacturer had to figuratively light a fire under Microsofts arse to get a significant change to the DX rendering APIs.
Click to expand...

So I assume you have evidence to back up this claim right?
 
Nzyme32 said:
If they care about PC gaming, they should push for content specifically to take advantage of the platform rather than pre-existing titles. Microsoft used to do a decent job with their PC studios back in the 90s
Click to expand...

Microsoft didn't have a console in the 90s. I'm not against games that take advantage of the PC like a new RTS or SIMs, but they already have games on a platform that's very similar to PC hardware wise. It wouldn't be trivial, but it also wouldn't be super expensive to port these games to PC.
 
FordGTGuy said:
No tangible evidence. People provide tangible evidence. I'll just ignore that.



LOL... you realize that I wasn't arguing against his primary point but merely replying to his last statement, right?
Click to expand...

Uh.. Yes, actually I do.

That's exactly what I was referring to. Your point doesn't actually address what you think you were trying to address.
 
FordGTGuy said:
No tangible evidence. People provide tangible evidence. I'll just ignore that.
Click to expand...
What are you even on about, though? I get it. You like Xbox. You like Spencer. It's cool. But let's not lie to ourselves here.

Microsoft's track record is proof enough until the show otherwise. Are you really debating that?
 
People love Phil Spencer for not being Don Mattrick just as much as people love PS4 for not being Xbox One.

Any truth to this statement?
 
Durante said:
I was about to make the same post more or less.

What we are supposed to believe:
  1. Phil Spencer, empowered by the spirit of Nadella, recognized the sorry state of DX11.
  2. He single-handedly crafted DX12 out of his sweat and tears and the love he feels in his heart for PC gamers.
  3. Through his heroic effort, your hardware will be 100% faster now!

Here's what happened:
  1. AMD created a low-overhead API, and was opening it up to the Khronos group for broad adoption.
  2. Microsoft aren't idiots and realized that the only reason they are at all relevant in PC gaming these days is DirectX. If DirectX goes, then so does Windows' hold on PC gaming. Ergo...
  3. They actually put effort in PC graphics API development for the first time since 2009 and produced D3D12.
  4. ... but of course, it's still Windows 10 exclusive, even though 99% of its advantages could easily be achieved on any post-Vista Windows.
Click to expand...

This is much more succinct than my own post. The potential of Khronos Groups' Vulkan thanks to AMD's Mantle be opened up entirely to them, is pretty huge. Their projected adoption to multiplatforms is also laudable covering practically every OS from mobile to desktop and apparently consoles as well. That kind of freedom is fantastic for developers if they follow through and a headache for Microsoft
 
legacyzero said:
What are you even on about, though? I get it. You like Xbox. You like Spencer. It's cool. But let's no lie to ourselves here.

Microsoft's track record is proof enough until the show otherwise. Are you really debating that?
Click to expand...

All the games they've released on Steam in the past years is considered zero tangible evidence now?

Primethius said:
Uh.. Yes, actually I do.

That's exactly what I was referring to. Your point doesn't actually address what you think you were trying to address.
Click to expand...

Wait you're me now?

Dayum.
 
TomShoe said:
People love Phil Spencer for not being Don Mattrick just as much as people love PS4 for not being Xbox One.

Any truth to this statement?
Click to expand...

Phil Spencer seems like a cool guy who at the very least understands the community, whether or not he can act on that is another issue, but I like him - regardless of how relevant Microsoft are to PC gaming.
 
FordGTGuy said:
They just had a huge restructuring, a brand new CEO and Xbox is head by a guy that is actually working to make gaming better for all of us.
Click to expand...

FordGTGuy said:
Boo this man for bringing 100% performance improvements to our hardware! boo!
Click to expand...

FordGTGuy said:
Last I checked DDOS attacks have toned down considerably
Click to expand...

FordGTGuy said:
I'm not attributing anything, I said that the guy seems like the kind of guy that cares about the gaming industry as a whole. I provided you with an instance where under his power he helped contact Sony and Nintendo to work against DDOS together.
Click to expand...

In summary: Phil Spencer makes gaming better for all of us, brings 100% performance improvements to our hardware, stops DDOS attacks "under his power", and cares about the gaming industry as a whole.

Clearly he's appearing at PC Gamer's gaming show to be canonized.
 
TomShoe said:
People love Phil Spencer for not being Don Mattrick just as much as people love PS4 for not being Xbox One.

Any truth to this statement?
Click to expand...

Well, my pro-Phil Spencer stance is mainly down to the fact that he seems to make less blindingly stupid decisions and I'm prepared to give the guy a decent amount of time to make his mark on the division before deciding if he's trash or not. I don't think it could really get much worse than Mattrick and the decisions they made for the Xbox One... Phil was in charge of Microsoft Studios (the studios themselves and publishing) and I like the games line-up so far on Xbox One.

I like what I'm hearing so far in general, the interaction with fans is nice, he seems competent at least. This is I guess the first real E3 since he's had the top job (seeing as he got it just 2 months before E3 last year) and we will know a lot more about whether he is full of hot air at E3 and Gamescom or not.

I don't personally find it a coincidence that Mattrick left soon after the reveal and Marc Whitten seemingly left quite suddenly which paved the way for Phil to take the Head of Xbox job.
 
Best scenario for me would be......

1) All Microsoft games are coming to PC after a 6 month exclusive to the Xbox one
2) All Microsoft digitally bought games will be cross buy with Xbone and PC with Windows 10
3) Killer Instinct, Sunset Overdrive, Forza 5 ARE AVAILABLE TODAY!

Explosions!
 
It'd be nice if he said killer instinct. Would it be available on steam tho or a windows store exclusive?
 
FordGTGuy said:
If you think they aren't supporting PC gaming without porting every exclusive to PC... well that's never going to happen.

I didn't know Sony has been releasing titles on Steam and a new development API for PC?

What a world we live in.
Click to expand...

Microsoft spend huge amounts of money preventing games from coming out on PC. Sony spend huge amounts of money funding development of games that support cross platform multiplayer between consoles and PCs. Sony often negotiate console exclusivity on games, but often these games come to PC at the same time as Playstation, and often if the PC version is later, developers are not gagged from mentioning the existence of the PC version.

Sony have never positioned themselves as a PC gaming company, which Microsoft have. My point was not that Sony publish more/any games on PC, but that Sony are less hostile towards PC gamers than Microsoft.

It's not that difficult to compare NuTomb Raider 2 with Street Fighter 5, and see that Microsoft's approach is far more hostile towards PC gamers.
 
Lord Kefka said:
Best scenario for me would be......

1) All Microsoft games are coming to PC after a 6 month exclusive to the Xbox one
2) All Microsoft digitally bought games will be cross buy with Xbone and PC with Windows 10
3) Killer Instinct, Sunset Overdrive, Forza 5 ARE AVAILABLE TODAY!

Explosions!
Click to expand...

I would rather the Xbox One became the Direct Xbox. Actually release games for Direct X and make them work on both platforms. We wouldn't even be talking about Steam Machines if they had done this with the original Xbox
 
Xplatformer said:
OK...Halo 3 and 4? You'd feel bad? Why?
Click to expand...

Let's put it a different way. I wouldn't feel bad if MS released something I've already played on PC (in fact there are numerous cases like Forza where I'd be ecstatic). However, if I KNEW reliably that they would all be on PC within a year or two, I certainly wouldn't have bought the console in the first place, and would have just waited patiently for the PC versions, whilst playing my Playstation 3 and Wii in the meantime. It's probably not beneficial for them to do that, because it'd divert any secondary revenue I've been worth over years towards their competition, and there's not even any gurantee that I don't just continue buying all my non-MS published games from Valve as usual.
 
chadskin said:
CBBu9COWwAAPzZB.jpg:large

https://twitter.com/renderpipeline/status/581086347450007553

Tehehe
Click to expand...
5Twist said:
Damn, so much of the wording is identical... o_O
Click to expand...

This reminds me of the time I took a summer course at a community college. It was a core engineering course and we had a paper. When I talked to the guys I was assigned they had just googled our topic and literally copied the text from the first couple items that showed up. I refused to be associated with that paper and made my own.

Now I wonder if he is over at Microsoft doing this document writing.
 
LilZippa said:
This reminds me of the time I took a summer course at a community college. It was a core engineering course and we had a paper. When I talked to the guys I was assigned they had just googled our topic and literally copied the text from the first couple items that showed up. I refused to be associated with that paper and made my own.

Now I wonder if he is over at Microsoft doing this document writing.
Click to expand...
I hope they failed. But really, similar wording in technical documentation is not too surprising.
 
LewieP said:
It's not that difficult to compare NuTomb Raider 2 with Street Fighter 5, and see that Microsoft's approach is far more hostile towards PC gamers.
Click to expand...

So what about Microsofts games that do come to PC? The more recent ones were day 1: Halo Spartan Strike, Ori, State of Decay YOSE, smaller titles yes but Fable Legends is coming too day 1, people might not care about it or want it but it doesn't change the fact that its coming.

I suspect a lot of their next wave of games which are coming weren't coming to PC originally and now they are making sure they can actually get them out on Xbox One on time.

Kalimba was likely delayed because originally Xbox One/360 then they canned the 360 version in favour of the PC one (and were trying to get it out in time for Christmas on Xbox One). D4 was Microsoft published and funded, like Alan Wake and Ryse I suspect MS could have tried to stop it if they wanted to, but they haven't.

Not doing cross-platform with PC for MMOs etc seems more hostile towards their own user base than it does PC, lets not forget they tried it before and it wasn't exactly a roaring success.
 
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