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[The Elite]

Hope that Wireless Dongle/Xbone Controller combo gets a swift release. My 360 gamepad is starting to get a little rancid despite weekly cleanings.

I wonder if we will get word on when we will see a big software upgrade for Xbox One. Will it be released on July 29th with Windows 10? Will we have to wait for streaming until the fall? I wouldn't be shocked if they made us wait.

Also, is there a schedule of all the E3 conferences this year? There seem to be more than usual.

 

[CharmingCharlie]

There are limits to how lazy one should be allowed to be

So the reason people don't want to use Microsofts windows store is because they are "lazy" ? Have you seen the utter shitfest that store is ? I got a cheapo Win8.1 tablet and checked their store out and after leaving I felt the need to run 6 virus checkers just to be safe.

Not only that but Microsoft has a confidence issue. When I buy digital I want to do so with the confidence that in 10 years time the store I bought the game from will still be there. I have that confidence in Steam but with Microsoft they have changed, abandoned and neglected the PC platform that often that I can't even be sure 6 months from now whether their store will be there. Just look at the history of GFWL and you will understand why people are reluctant to use the Windows Store.

Now sure they can release all their stuff on their store if they like. I won't be buying anything from it and when they don't sell software I hope they come to the conclusion that "Hm we ignored the biggest DD platform on the PC that is why our stuff didn't sell". Instead what will happen is they will make it all Windows Store exclusive see fuck all in sales and go "hm no one wants to play games on the PC, lets abandon it again".

 

[Nzyme32]

People who are saying this "one more button to click" thing are either being dumb or disingenuous. Was it one more button to click for GFWL? Sure. Did GFWL also fuck up a lot and screw up a lot of games? Yes.

A new store and platform means a lot of changes. Different multiplayer functions, different social services and jus general different functionality. In 2015 you still have to start a game to patch it in Uplay for pete's sake.

IF MS manages to make a platform that's fully functional and simplistic, I'm willing to give it a chance. But it's pretty obtuse to dismiss concerns about the platform as "not wanting to push another button" unless you're just totally blind and deaf to the MS' recent history.

I think the best we can hope for, is that third parties are not stuck in a similar way to GFWL in that they can only have a GFWL version and not other things such as GoG or Steamworks integration. Ultimately that is what has caused all those games to remain broken until they invested in getting out of it.

 

[alexandros]

Here is a preview for Microsoft's portion of the conference.

And here's the crowd's disposition towards MS:

 

[patapuf]

The difference is that Valve doesn';t make games anymore. If MS actually invests in some high-end PC exclusives then I think they have full right to sell them solely on their own DD platform. Complaining about that seems terribly petty, because you're weighting couple dozens of millions of investment against being forced to make one more click. There are limits to how lazy one should be allowed to be

PC gaming doesn't need to be saved by MS. It's doing amazing on it's own. If MS makes games and sells them on Windows Store only it's not really promoting platform, but promoting their store.

I'ts fully within their right. But i'm not touching an MS PC store front with a ten foot pole. Uplay has a better track record than MS in that respect, that's saying something.

And here's the crowd's disposition towards MS:

MS has done quite a lot to earn that.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Like, everybody knows Valve's customer service is terrible. It's basically a joke unto itself at this point. But it hasn't really turned people off from the service in a big way; maybe one or two isolated incidents here and there, but most people just grin and bear it.

You only have to deal with Customer Support if something goes wrong.
Meanwhile Valve are continuously adding new features and services to Steam to make it not just a "best of breed" digital service for gaming, but for digital services in general.

MS (a large general purpose software company) didn't even introduce two-step authentication until 2 years after Steam (a shop that sells games) did.

 

[alexandros]

MS has done quite a lot to earn that.

Beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

[Wiktor]

So the reason people don't want to use Microsofts windows store is because they are "lazy" ? .

If there's really a game there they want to play, but decide not to because they will have to launch it from Windows Menu instead of through Steam...then I just don't understand those people. At this point they stop being pcgamers to me and transform into steam gamers.

But this is GAF. It's extremely Steam centric, so that's not all that surprising. PCgamers as a whole aren't that hardcore in this area, as shown by the fact that most of biggest pc games aren't even on Steam.

 

[alexandros]

If there's really a game there they want to play, but decide not to because they will have to launch it from Windows Menu instead of through Steam...then I just don't understand those people. At this point they stop being pcgamers to me and transform into steam gamers.

What? Come on, you are being hyperbolic here. I don't buy EA games since they went Origin-only because I don't trust EA as a service provider. Like, at all. Do I have to turn in my PC gamer badge?

 

[dancrane212]

And here's the crowd's disposition towards MS:

Isn't it just going to be the usual press folk there? Did they open up attendance to the public or something?

 

[Synth]

So the reason people don't want to use Microsofts windows store is because they are "lazy" ? Have you seen the utter shitfest that store is ? I got a cheapo Win8.1 tablet and checked their store out and after leaving I felt the need to run 6 virus checkers just to be safe.

Sorry, but how is your baseless paranoia MS' fault?

 

[bede-x]

GFW Marketplace - as a gaming focussed digital store - was launched, rebranded, and shitcanned within a space of 4 years.

Sorry if that doesn't invoke huge amounts of goodwill and trust within me for using future digital storefronts.

And after that they tried to make always online DRM a standard in console gaming. Sorry, but while I'd like to play some of their franchises on PC, I'd never support a service by them being the foundation for the delievery of my games. Why would anyone knowing their history?

And I'm still keeping a close eye on what will happen to XBLIG when the 360 servers shut off. More gaming culture unceremoniously dumbed like garbage by Microsoft or will they actually understand why these games could be important to people and deserve more than disappearing at the flip of a switch?

So no, not eager to invest in any kind of store by Microsoft, but bring the games to Steam, driven by a company PC gamers trust and we'll talk.

 

[alexandros]

Isn't it just going to be the usual press folk there? Did they open up attendance to the public or something?

No idea, I was just trying to make a funny

 

[Renekton]

Here is a preview for Microsoft's portion of the conference.

DX12 is all that we want/need from them

It's a big deal.

 

[iNvid02]

Isn't it just going to be the usual press folk there? Did they open up attendance to the public or something?

few thousand public invites to E3 this year, they might make their way into this PC show. but you know microsoft will have its employees seated together making hella noise as phil shows off the wireless xbox one dongle.

 

[alexandros]

DX12 is all that we want/need from them

It's a big deal.

Vulkan is the real big deal. That's the bet that will change the future of PC gaming if it pays off. DX12 is just...neat.

 

[dancrane212]

few thousand public invites to E3 this year, they might make their way into this PC show. but you know microsoft will have its employees seated together making hella noise as phil shows off the wireless xbox one dongle.

No idea how PC Gamer/AMD is setting it up but usually the press conferences invites are not tied to show passes. Can't just walk into Sony's conference because you have an E3 badge.

No idea, I was just trying to make a funny

Well, they're no stranger to getting booed on-stage.

 

[Nzyme32]

If there's really a game there they want to play, but decide not to because they will have to launch it from Windows Menu instead of through Steam...then I just don't understand those people. At this point they stop being pcgamers to me and transform into steam gamers.

But this is GAF. It's extremely Steam centric, so that's not all that surprising. PCgamers as a whole aren't that hardcore in this area, as shown by the fact that most of biggest pc games aren't even on Steam.

If that were the case I would agree, however I think people are against it because they don't have any trust or faith in them at all concerning PC gaming and maintenance of services and their content (which is not to say they should be denied to opportunity to try again). This is a reputation Microsoft rightly earned for years of shit. It will take them years to prove otherwise - yet even the current discussions about what they want to do illustrate that lack of trust and the same patterns of listlessly moving over a different service from their console and adapting it to what they think PC gamers want and need.

Some of these features are great for Xbox owners, but that represents a minority of core PC gamers. The PC gamer interview shows the same things we have seen before. Xbox Live, the all amazing gaming social network that PC gamers have seemingly wanted, and GameDVR another service that PC gamers have always wanted and apparently have not got easy access to in better forms, as well as game streaming ....from the Xbox you own.

I suppose the issue is that as the platform holder, they are expected to do so much more than they are to support and bring features and games specifically to the PC ecosystem. They hold no PC events, bring no new content specifically to the platform outside of remasters thus far, bring no new hardware, and only make meaningful itterations to DX in the wake of AMD lighting a fire. If before launch of Windows 10, they release a single game for PC along with their service, it will mirror everything they did during the launch of GFWL; it ensues no confidence until they break that cycle and really make a monumental effort specifically on PC gaming and what it can do. The current announcements give the appearance of yet another flimsy attempt to attach Xbox console features to PC that already has them in better forms

 

[Wiktor]

What? Come on, you are being hyperbolic here. I don't buy EA games since they went Origin-only because I don't trust EA as a service provider. Like, at all. Do I have to turn in my PC gamer badge?

I would propably let you keep pcgamer status in your id, but I would like to ask you to give back your badge

 

[CharmingCharlie]

Sorry, but how is your baseless paranoia MS' fault?

You know those dodgy download websites you find on the net. The kind that go "click and download our handy dandy no nonsense downloader that totally isn't infested with viruses" that is the vibe you get from the Windows store.

Hell half the stuff on the store isn't even there. I lost count of the number of times I clicked on a product on the windows store only to be told "this app is only available from the creators website". The windows store is pretty much a low grade half hearted effort (surprise surprise). There are very good reasons to avoid the windows store and I haven't seen Microsoft making any effort to change it.

What? Come on, you are being hyperbolic here. I don't buy EA games since they went Origin-only because I don't trust EA as a service provider. Like, at all. Do I have to turn in my PC gamer badge?

Yup pretty much my take on things. This is the thing about DD it is all about the trust. I trust valve to provide a quality DD service, I trust Valve to be there in 10 years time and I trust Valve to not turn Steam into a paid subscription service. EA, Microsoft and Ubisoft have given me NO reason whatsoever to trust them. If anything those three companies have gone out of their way to ensure I wouldn't even trust them to piss on me if I was on fire.

If that makes me a "steam gamer" and not a PC gamer (despite being a PC only gamer since ditching my Amiga 1200 for a Pentium 75 all them years ago) then fine I am a Steam gamer then.

 

[dancrane212]

MS certainly should be trying to make good with PC folk after GFWL, no doubt about that. I swear at some point Phil Spencer made a point on twitter about having to do something about their games on GFWL if the option to re-download your purchased content was turned off.

Porting the MS GFWL games to the Win10 store and giving free access to those who bought the game previously would be a good step in the right direction. I wonder how hard that transition process would be since the games are already using Xbox servers?

 

[Wiktor]

If that were the case I would agree, however I think people are against it because they don't have any trust or faith in them at all concerning PC gaming and maintenance of services and their content (which is not to say they should be denied to opportunity to try again). This is a reputation Microsoft rightly earned for years of shit. It will take them years to prove otherwise - yet even the current discussions about what they want to do illustrate that lack of trust and the same patterns of listlessly moving over a different service from their console and adapting it to what they think PC gamers want and need.

But those will still be MS games. Them being on Steam won't stop Microsoft from royally fucking up everone who bought them on Steam if they really want to. All they need to do is shut off the servers. If you don't have any faith in Microsoft then you should be weary of buying anything from them, no matter which service sells it.

I suppose the issue is that as the platform holder, they are expected to do so much more than they are to support and bring features and games specifically to the PC ecosystem. They hold no PC events, bring no new content specifically to the platform outside of remasters thus far, bring no new hardware, and only make meaningful itterations to DX in the wake of AMD lighting a fire. If before launch of Windows 10, they release a single game for PC along with their service, it will mirror everything they did during the launch of GFWL; it ensues no confidence until they break that cycle and really make a monumental effort specifically on PC gaming and what it can do. The current announcements give the appearance of yet another flimsy attempt to attach Xbox console features to PC that already has them in better forms

Oh..don't get me wrong. I think MS support of pcgaming in the last decade has been a complete disgrace. They should be held to higher standards. I just don't think a part of this should be expecting them to support a company that wants to grow into their direct competitor in gaming space.

I honestly think most people wouldn't mind Windows Store exclusivity for Microsoft games if MS would put huge effort into it. Release multiple big budgeted exclusives each year, provide great service with constantly updated features etc. I think this could work well. But instead MS will probably just release some weak multiplats or remasters on undeveloped service and I won't be surprised if for this meager effort gamers just won't bother.

 

[Ge0force]

The thing about an open ecosystem is that publisher's are free to release their games where they see fit. Valve aren't required to place DOTA2 on the Windows Store, and Microsoft aren't required to put their games on Steam. You're not really arguing for an open ecosystem. You're arguing for everything to be available on your chosen ecosystem.

On open ecosystem is more than freedom in release dates. I'm talking about active support for mods and community content, no stupid rules for devs like parity clause etc... Last thing we need on pc is a console-like closed ecosystem where everything is controlled and monetized by its owner.

Of course MS isn't required to bring their games to Steam. But it would be nice if they gave us a choice. I don't have an Xbox, so I don't care for cross-buy. All my games are on Steam, all my friends are on Steam. I just don't feel like using multiple ecosystems. A few MS exclusives won't change that.

 

[alexandros]

I honestly think most people wouldn't mind Windows Store exclusivity for Microsoft games if MS would put huge effort into it.

The big question is this: Where will that huge effort lead to? If I had to choose between supporting Microsoft and Valve I would give my money to Valve every single time. Not because "Microsoft is evil" and "Valve is nice". Simply because Valve is all in on PC gaming and they are moving (out of necessity no doubt) towards open platforms that guarantee the future of the platform even if Valve tries to take it over.

Microsoft on the other hand has spent the last 15 years treating PC gaming as a second class citizen and clearly prioritizes the Xbox hardware and ecosystem. They can do what they want, I don't care, but their interests as a company don't align at all with my interests as a PC gamer. So I will not support them until they prove after years of good behavior, so to speak, that their interests have changed.

 

[Wiktor]

The big question is this: Where will that huge effort lead to? If I had to choose between supporting Microsoft and Valve I would give my money to Valve every single time. Not because "Microsoft is evil" and "Valve is nice". Simply because Valve is all in on PC gaming and they are moving (out of necessity no doubt) towards open platforms that guarantee the future of the platform even if Valve tries to take it over.

Microsoft on the other hand has spent the last 15 years treating PC gaming as a second class citizen and clearly prioritizes the Xbox hardware and ecosystem. They can do what they want, I don't care, but their interests as a company don't align at all with my interests as a PC gamer. So I will not support them until they prove after years of good behavior, so to speak, that their interests have changed.

Well..fortunatelly most gamers treat pcgaming as a platform that covers more than Steam. Those are just games. You're not getting married to either of those companies. I will buy/download games I want where they are avaible and most people will do the same.

Even in broader perspective I prefer to support multiple services. Valve has shown that they can do some vile shit. And it doesn't need to forcibly take over pcgaming. it getting a vast majority of the whole market would be a tragedy. One of the joys of pcgaming for me is the freedom of choice and free competition. A future where everybody needs to go through Steam to make profit is pretty close to death of pcgaming to me.
I like the situation that is now. That Valve is strong enough on the market to lead the way, but not strong enough so that there's no competition.

 

[Synth]

You know those dodgy download websites you find on the net. The kind that go "click and download our handy dandy no nonsense downloader that totally isn't infested with viruses" that is the vibe you get from the Windows store.

Hell half the stuff on the store isn't even there. I lost count of the number of times I clicked on a product on the windows store only to be told "this app is only available from the creators website". The windows store is pretty much a low grade half hearted effort (surprise surprise). There are very good reasons to avoid the windows store and I haven't seen Microsoft making any effort to change it.

Yea, the external links are kinda silly I guess... but that's because currently the Windows Store only directly serves WinRT application, not desktop apps. WinRT apps are sandboxed off from the rest of the OS, which actually makes the store pretty much the last place you're going to find a virus.

On open ecosystem is more than freedom in release dates. I'm talking about active support for mods and community content, no stupid rules for devs like parity clause etc... Last thing we need on pc is a console-like closed ecosystem where everything is controlled and monetized by its owner.

Of course MS isn't required to bring their games to Steam. But it would be nice if they gave us a choice. I don't have an Xbox, so I don't care for cross-buy. All my games are on Steam, all my friends are on Steam. I just don't feel like using multiple ecosystems. A few MS exclusives won't change that.

There are no parity clauses etc for the Windows Store. They don't manage it the same way they manage an actual closed ecosystem (Xbox). As of Windows 8, you can't currently obtain desktop applications, so there's not really any modding to take into consideration right now. They're supposed to be adding desktop apps to the store (rather than just external links as mentioned by CharmingCharlie), and with that comes all the usual modding capabilities. They're not going to prevent stuff like that, because it's the foundation for a great many applications that are extremely important to Windows.

 

[Doffen]

Their most recent storefront is 2 years old.

They've had online digital stores since 2004. All of which were rebranded then discontinued.

Again, not a history where I'm super-confident in them not pulling the plug when they get bored.

I've had no issues with the store itself from my time with Windows Phone and Windows 8. The backend of the Windows Store for developers is also quite good in my opinion. Clean, easy to use and quick certification process.

 

[a secret-boss]

so AMD shows off their card today

 

[Xplatformer]

so AMD shows off their card today

They did.

And Phil is going to announce Fable for Windows 10, show some F2P games and talk about how great DirectX 12 will be once more developers take advantage of it.

Meh.

 

[Wiktor]

Lol...so much hyping up for a port of two years old Xbox One game and one remaster that isn't much different from the original 9 years old pc version. Microsoft didn't bother to fund one decent pc-centric game or even bring their odlies to DD platforms.

What a joke.