Stella has been removed from FFXV; Itamuro writing game; Demo 2 June 9; FFXV not @ E3

Is there, or can someone do, a chronological list with links of all the official trailers that have come out for FFVsXIII/FFXV since its reveal in 2006?

I'm sure there is a fan or two who already has that ready to be copy/pasted.
 
Stone Ocean said:
Weren't 7 8 and 9 announced at the same time? Making those games must've been fun.
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So.......

VII-VIII-IX were announced at the same time.

X-XI and XII (?) were also announced at the same time.

XIII-XIV and Versus XIII were also announced at the same time.

XVI, XVII and Versus XVI next? :P
 
Garlador said:
Actually, that taught them to be efficient.

I remember reading that, because of deadlines and time constraints, they HAD to get everyone on the same page, so they ironed out every issue and got everything planned out before they ever started programming or modeling or actually making the game (at least in FF9's case).

But then you had something like, say, Xenogears, which just flat out ran out of time and money and they went "well, it's shipping anyway". Basically half the game is just... not there. They learned from that and future projects were planned to be less "epic" and "ambitious", and instead became, well, just good and polished.
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To be fair, I don't think it's really true. I doubt it taught them anything, because the process they were making the games with was fundamentally broken. This became very apparent as games scaled up in complexity after FFX. We saw long delays, tons of work being scrapped and redone. People stepping down. Etc.

It may have worked in spite of inefficiency in the PS1 era because there were less moving pieces in terms of "planning everything out", but the reality is that working on games (and anything in entertainment really) is often a fluid process. Not everything is going to work the way you envision it at first, so if you have a rigid system that assumes everything will work before implementing it, when something doesn't, the entire process falls apart.
 
benzy said:
All that matters is that the black hair'd girl is still there.

mJi8Vas.jpg
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Wow, that's straight up gorgeous.

She looks better than Stella/Luna ever did.
 
WolvenOne said:
It's unfortunate, but FFXIII Verses just didn't work out. While I can understand being disappointed by that, clinging to that disappointment is counterproductive beyond a certain point.

Besides, just because FFXV may not be the game you wanted, doesn't necessarily mean it won't be a good game in it's own right. I would advocate waiting and judging XV on its own merits, rather than making your mind up ahead of time before you've even experienced it properly.
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We were led to expect pretty much the same game and plot until they progressively unveil the "surprise", so to speak. Since so far I can only judge the game by the people at the helm and their track records, this doesn't exactly boost my confidence into it.

While I know full well that the Nojima/Nomura combo wasn't exactly amazing, they at least managed to get some really great set-pieces going (and guess what were the first things that got removed).
It's very obvious that the Insomnia invasion is the key to FFXV beginning, and yet instead of seeing it firsthand from the hero's perspective, the new writing staff puts you away from it. You're being told of it rather than living it, and (even if it's not much to go by) that's a worrying sign to me.

Show, don't tell.


Anyway that's all I can say from the little we know. And as you say, when the time comes, I'll be fully used to the idea of it being a completely different project. But for one I would've liked that they didn't hide that from us for so long.
 
The worst part is that they were seemingly repeating the same mistakes again with 2013 trailer, they showed so much now they don't know if they will be in the game. It's not something that long past. Nomura really had to be stopped.
 
duckroll said:
To be fair, I don't think it's really true. I doubt it taught them anything, because the process they were making the games with was fundamentally broken. This became very apparent as games scaled up in complexity after FFX. We saw long delays, tons of work being scrapped and redone. People stepping down. Etc.

It may have worked in spite of inefficiency in the PS1 era because there were less moving pieces in terms of "planning everything out", but the reality is that working on games (and anything in entertainment really) is often a fluid process. Not everything is going to work the way you envision it at first, so if you have a rigid system that assumes everything will work before implementing it, when something doesn't, the entire process falls apart.
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Yep, aaaaand that's what happened when Square hit the HD era. The process was already straining in the PS2 era, it pretty much came off the rails when they had to enter HD development. Same could be said for a loooooot of Japanese developers sadly. I think that's why so many of them jumped into mobile development so eagerly. It was easier for them to just, scale everything back then it was to fix their development processes.

Granted, this wasn't the only factor at work here. I suppose that's a discussion for another day though.

DSix said:
We were led to expect pretty much the same game and plot until they progressively unveil the "surprise", so to speak. Since so far I can only judge the game by the people at the helm and their track records, this doesn't exactly boost my confidence into it.

While I know full well that the Nojima/Nomura combo wasn't exactly amazing, they at least managed to get some really great set-pieces going (and guess what were the first things that got removed).
It's very obvious that the Insomnia invasion is the key to FFXV beginning, and yet instead of seeing it firsthand from the hero's perspective, the new writing staff puts you away from it. You're being told of it rather than living it, and (even if it's not much to go by) that's a worrying sign to me.

Show, don't tell.


Anyway that's all I can say from the little we know. And as you say, when the time comes, I'll be fully used to the idea of it being a completely different project. But for one I would've liked that they didn't hide that from us for so long.
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They did not say, "This is going to be the exact same game." In fact even the re-unveiling trailer looked radically different from the early vXIII PS3 footage. The team did absolutely nothing to imply that this was going to be a near carbon copy of a defunct PS3 era game. In fact if I remember various interviews correctly, they made it clear that many things had changed during the course of development.

You assumed and wanted XV to be a carbon copy of V-Xii. Given all the changes made to development and the games very name, that was an entirely unreasonable assumption for you to make.
 
Yeah but no, Toriyama just erase Stella because she was already better than Lighting. All the talks about 'XV is not vXIII anymore' is just a PR-ish bullshit, we still have the initial concept about the overall world, the main protagonist since 2006 (or so).
We didn't no much about the game, Nomura is a talented guy but too ambitious for the current Square Enix, and I really don't know why I don't leave this (sinking) ship.

I was hyped but between this script writer shift, and the Stella Gate, I don't know where FF XV is going. Looking for BD EL on my beloved 3DS now and eventually DraQue VII (coming in 20??).
 
Ishida said:
Exactly.

People seem to believe that the Versus/XV team was renewed on some executive's whim. Development of that game was rebooted and shifted because of a very simple reason: It was simply not working.

Year after year, E3 after E3 we would see basically the same stuff about Versus XIII: Nothing.

Sure, we got some (amazing) trailers, and some tidbits here and there from Nomura on certain interviews. But people are of short memory if they forget that Versus XIII issued a period of silence, a "dark age" where fans were starving on information and all we would get is "We are skipping this year's E3".

Then Tabata gets on the helm. The team gets shifted. Suddenly we start getting trailers and information up the ass, even at the point where we believe we are getting too much information.

I really like Nomura. I'm a fan of its work. But Tabata and his team are getting actual work done. They released a demo, they listen to fan feedback, and are letting us know of CLEAR DATES for the game's next major showing (Gamescom).
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Preach!
 
Re: Stella/Luna again:
How do you know that most of Luna's background story isn't still similar to Stella's. She still seems to be an important political figure (see the demo's Secret Movie), she still seems to have the same kind of power as Noctis (see the small crystal shards flying around her - like when Noctis summons), she still has a connection to the sky name-wise (= "moon" now instead of "star") and she still seems to be a love interest of Noctis (see the "Your date's already waiting for you." line in the TGS trailer when they talk about Luna waiting in Altissa).

That's a lot of similarities. The things that were changed probably were for the better (who knows what convoluted mess Stella's story could have turned out with Nojima/Nomura writing).
Anybody trying to make claims about Luna's personality based on a few seconds of the same scene of her sitting at a table: come on...


Btw, the young girl in the beginning of the E3 '13 trailer is Stella, right? So Noctis knows her from his childhood? It was never confirmed, though, right? I wonder if that plot point stayed the same with Luna now.
https://youtu.be/Rbwm-mzm5QA?t=11s

---

benzy said:
All that matters is that the black hair'd girl is still there.

mJi8Vas.jpg
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THIS. Can't wait to see more of her.
 
@Koozek

Who are you addressing, I never said Luna didn't have a similar background.

BocoDragon said:
The "authorship of the original team" couldn't get a game done. I do think if you read between the lines, Nomura was a dud as a AAA producer.
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Please give me a source on this. From the information I have gathered nothing suggests that Nomura was a dud at anything.

I'd like you to back up your claim.
 
You know there was no reason whatsoever to completely "remove' Stella in the game. When they threw in a character that looks just like her.

I mean couldn't they just have Luna be named Stella, and just tell fans Stella was "retooled"?
To me this makes no sense whatever as to why they had to have a "whole new character" in general. This was a pretty stupid move because all it did was make people who were excited for versus since the beginning dumbfounded, all to make whoever felt like they needed to make a new character feel apart of the team.

This so seems like the developer/director/writer going: "Guuyzzz. I totally want to like make a character. I'm in charge now, so you must make me my waifu girl named ugghh Luna."

Just weird changes like this is how the game loses it's original vision.
 
DiipuSurotu said:
They removed Fujin and Raijin from FFVII but they put them in VIII instead. This may not be the last time we see Stella. Believe!
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Edea too. Also, the concept for Advent Children(Geostigma) was originally going to be a major plot point for FFX(Yuna was going to go around healing people).

I still liked the idea of a FF game revolving around a hard-boiled detective. Imagine a detective mystery in a FF world that still has dragons and magic, but also stuff right out of modern and early-20th century era setting? I could see him sitting in his office with a cigar, in silhouette, while out the window, you see the light of twin moons and a swarm of wyverns flying across the night sky.
 
MagnaderAlpha said:
Edea too. Also, the concept for Advent Children(Geostigma) was originally going to be a major plot point for FFX(Yuna was going to go around healing people).
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Hehe, I love hearing about stuff like this. That early FFX concept art is super interesting to see (1, 2, 3).

MagnaderAlpha said:
I still liked the idea of a FF game revolving around a hard-boiled detective. Imagine a detective mystery in a FF world that still has dragons and magic, but also stuff right out of modern and early-20th century era setting? I could see him sitting in his office with a cigar, in silhouette, while out the window, you see the light of twin moons and a swarm of wyverns flying across the night sky.
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Yeah, I fantasized about this kind of a FF for quite some time now, too! Basically what Shadow Hearts: From the New World did, just with an AAA FF budget, woohooo. Luckily Tabata is a history buff and would love to make an "Alternate Reality" FF someday, so who knows :P
 
MagnaderAlpha said:
Edea too. Also, the concept for Advent Children(Geostigma) was originally going to be a major plot point for FFX(Yuna was going to go around healing people).

I still liked the idea of a FF game revolving around a hard-boiled detective. Imagine a detective mystery in a FF world that still has dragons and magic, but also stuff right out of modern and early-20th century era setting? I could see him sitting in his office with a cigar, in silhouette, while out the window, you see the light of twin moons and a swarm of wyverns flying across the night sky.
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A "Final Fantasy Noire" would be awesome.
 
Mr. RHC said:
@Koozek

Who are you addressing, I never said Luna didn't have a similar background.



Please give me a source on this. From the information I have gathered nothing suggests that Nomura was a dud at anything.

I'd like you to back up your claim.
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It's a Japanese company. Why would there be explicit evidence of this? I said to read between the lines- it's the safe inference.

He spent 6-7 years developing his pet project, which is an insanely long time to be developing something without oversight and milestones, and he was removed from it with very little fanfare. Then he was put on a project, KH3, which is a much more humble game design that we know he can deliver on.

The situation is very much like Matsuno on FFXII. They never came out and said he was having issues with getting he game done, he said "health problems". We all took that to be saving face for an iffy performance getting a game done.

I guess I'm surprised I have to justify it. What I am saying is the general reaction on GAF when we learned that Nomura was off the project.

Do people really think everything was just fine in development, and its just a coincidence that he wasn't headlining the so-called "full development" of XV? It's right there but Square's not going to come out and say it: they lost confidence in him. 6-7 years. It was a bloated, featured-creeped production that was never going to get done under his watch, and they needed Mr. Wolf (Tabata) to come in and clean thugs up.
 
BocoDragon said:
It's a Japanese company. Why would there be explicit evidence of this? I said to read between the lines- it's the safe inference.

He spent 6-7 years developing his pet project, which is an insanely long time to be developing something without oversight and milestones, and he was removed from it with very little fanfare. Then he was put on a project, KH3, which is a much more humble game design that we know he can deliver on.
.
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I thought proper production didn't start up until 2011? =O

http://gematsu.com/2011/09/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-in-full-production
 
Mr. RHC said:
I thought proper production didn't start up until 2011? =O

http://gematsu.com/2011/09/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-in-full-production
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That is quite true.

But in some sense... Isn't that kind of a bit of spin? Final Fantasy XV: A Realm Reborn by Hajime Tabata didn't begin production until 2011...

...But Nomura and co obviously had a task for 2006-2011. They made all kinds of content. I think SE expected that project to eventually come to fruition but it just wasn't happening, so they pulled out the brakes (and the producer).
 
BocoDragon said:
It's a Japanese company. Why would there be explicit evidence of this? I said to read between the lines- it's the safe inference.

He spent 6-7 years developing his pet project, which is an insanely long time to be developing something without oversight and milestones, and he was removed from it with very little fanfare. Then he was put on a project, KH3, which is a much more humble game design that we know he can deliver on.

The situation is very much like Matsuno on FFXII. They never came out and said he was having issues with getting he game done, he said "health problems". We all took that to be saving face for an iffy performance getting a game done.

I guess I'm surprised I have to justify it. What I am saying is the general reaction on GAF when we learned that Nomura was off the project.

Do people really think everything was just fine in development, and its just a coincidence that he wasn't headlining the so-called "full development" of XV? It's right there but Square's not going to come out and say it: they lost confidence in him. 6-7 years. It was a bloated, featured-creeped production that was never going to get done under his watch, and they needed Mr. Wolf (Tabata) to come in and clean thugs up.
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Versus XIII/XV appears to have literally driven some fans insane. What you're saying makes perfect sense, but it will fall on plenty of deaf ears. Keep fighting the good fight, though.
 
Is it really Nomura's fault about all of this? I dunno, the track record seems to indicate that there are far more deeper underlying issues at Square.

With XII, XIII, and XIV all also going under extremely troubled developments, all the directors can't be incompetent.
 
Megidolaon said:
Is it really Nomura's fault about all of this? I dunno, the track record seems to indicate that there are far more deeper underlying issues at Square.

With XII, XIII, and XIV all also going under extremely troubled developments, all the directors can't be incompetent.
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XIV 1.0 killed a lot of things. But if anything I blame the poor management of the company as a whole last generation.
 
Mr. RHC said:
@Koozek

Who are you addressing, I never said Luna didn't have a similar background.
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Oh, I wasn't talking to anyone specific. Just those making a big drama about Stella now, when she was changed at E3 '13 already, anyway (looking totally out of place with her anime doll face), and that was when Nomura was still around. She wouldn't have looked like the "strong woman" from the first, 2008 Versus trailer in FFXV and she already didn't seem like that in the 2009 trailers, so who knows if she really was supposed to be a fierce woman in the final game, which would have been cool to see, nontheless, but well, we'll have to wait and see how Luna turns out eventually.

Constantly being negative about any change from now on is a waste of time and energy. Versus is gone. And personally I'm happy about this in some way, anyway, as I wasn't excited for the floaty KH battle-system to begin with and didn't care about character-switching. The important themes and the exciting settings are still in, so everything's fine.
I'm looking forward to whatever they think is the best. Things change all the time in creative processes. Tabata explained well enough why they had to change some things. I have no trust in the original
 
Megidolaon said:
Is it really Nomura's fault about all of this? I dunno, the track record seems to indicate that there are far more deeper underlying issues at Square.

With XII, XIII, and XIV all also going under extremely troubled developments, all the directors can't be incompetent.
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Oh I definitely think there are huge issues with workflow too. It's just as much the fault of the SE structure that Nomura wasn't held accountable to deadlines. Versus XIII was being developed in the same way that XIII was - an endless period of generating art assets, and only after some weirdly long period of time they said "ok let's corral this into a videogame".

Duckroll mentioned a few pages back that the workflow for FF7-9 were just as insane. Well that x HD assets and unrestricted creator ambition, and you had a mess on your hands.

Still if Nomura were more goal oriented, I think he'd have made something during the asset generation period that would have allowed him to stay on the project.
 
Kagari said:
XIV 1.0 killed a lot of things. But if anything I blame the poor management of the company as a whole last generation.
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Yeah, I figures they must have took a big hit with the original FFXIV. Ouch.

Yeah, I first felt trouble with XII. I loved the game as a whole, but you could really sense the issues during the second half when the story kinda fizzles out and the conclusion wasn't all that great.

BocoDragon said:
Oh I definitely think there are huge issues with workflow too. It's just as much the fault of the SE structure that Nomura wasn't held accountable to deadlines. Versus XIII was being developed in the same way that XIII was - an endless period of generating art assets, and only after some weirdly long period of time they said "ok let's corral this into a videogame".

Duckroll mentioned a few pages back that the workflow for FF7-9 were just as insane. Well that x HD assets and unrestricted creator ambition, and you had a mess on your hands.

Still if Nomura were more goal oriented, I think he'd have made something during the asset generation period that would have allowed him to stay on the project.
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yeah, it sucks. Especially since Nomura's team was kept away from Vs XIII to help for a long time on XIII, they weren't able to make much progress I assume. And I'm sure Square wants Nomura to churn out KH3 as soon as possible, so they want him to work on that and not linger on XV for more years.
 
Honestly, everyone involved has to take a big chunk of the blame. I really don't think SE's management is that deaf in regarding the development of Versus XIII, and I'm sure they knew that Nomura didn't have all the resources and manpower he needed. Heck, they admitted that HD game development was pushed back years because of FFXIV's reboot. They were aware of this. Nomura is regarded very highly by many people in the company and I'm sure they had good enough reason to remove him form the project.

It wasn't as simple as Nomura needing 200 in-house developers to right the ship under his command. If it were that simple, they would have given him the additional time and developers he needed. Nomura had to have made his own mistakes somewhere along the way.
 
After what happened with tales of zesteria (the current price for the game is about 20 dollars and its only a few months old) they couldnt keep stella in the game. They renamed her, changed a few details and say it is a new character. Can't say you were lied to now.

Personally I am only buying a ps4 if ffxv turns out good. If it is bad then that saves me money. blessed Ps3/ps4 cross platform gen.
 
When she walks down the street,
She knows there's people watching.
The building fronts are just fronts
To hide the people watching her

But she once fell through the street
Down a manhole in that bad way
The underground drip
Was just like her scuba days

Days
Daze
Days
Daze

She was all right because the sea was so airtight, she broke away
She is all right but she can't come out tonight, she broke away
She was all right, yeah the sea was so tight, air tight
She broke away, broke away

At the bottom of the ocean she dwells
At the bottom of the ocean she dwells
From crevices caressed by fingers
And fat blue serpent swells
Stella, Stella, Stella, Stella I love you

[Chorus]

Well, she was my catatonic sex toy, love-joy diver
She went down down down there into the sea,
Yeah she went down down down there, down there for me, right on

So good, oh yeah, right on

(There's something that's invisible,
There's some things you can't hide,
Try detect you when I'm sleeping,
In a wave you say goodbye...)
Click to expand...

RIP
 
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