chozen
Member
At least let us warp to the designated points like on towers and buildings OUTSIDE of combat, how is that even a problem. Tabata is restricting WAY too much now.
Stella has been removed from FFXV; Itamuro writing game; Demo 2 June 9; FFXV not @ E3
- Thread starter LiK
- Start date
At least let us warp to the designated points like on towers and buildings OUTSIDE of combat, how is that even a problem. Tabata is restricting WAY too much now.
Haeralis The BRave
Banned
This is something I think people are not entirely right about. Nomura's dark toned Versus trailers were often at night, but at the same time, the 2008 trailer he had included the road trip aspect (which he had also talked about prior to the rebranding) which was very lighthearted, just as it is now.
And another thing, you know what else had some dark trailers? Kingdom Hearts II, which was a Nomura game through and through. Just because the trailers of Versus were dark does not at all in anyway guarantee that a completed Versus XIII would be dark.
I've been hyped about Versus for so long, but most of the changes just seem kind of minor and don't bother me or make me doubt that the original vision is still there. The only disappointing thing was the lack of multiple playable characters, but I have a feeling that'll be the selling point of the sequel
Death Penalty
Member
So in that case falling damage really doesn't make much sense in either game. I can understand it as a trapping of MMO gameplay- most MMOs use falling damage- but in an action RPG I don't really see why it's being implemented if it doesn't have any story justification. Tabata seems to be fond of adding inconvenient "realistic" touches for the pure sake of it and I don't much like it. It doesn't make sense in the context of what Noctis is physically capable of, and outside of that it seems to just be an annoyance in gameplay. I'm not trying to be combative, it's certainly not a huge complaint. But both falling damage and running out of breath seem like they'll do little to enhance the experience beyond making a player groan.
Falling damage, at least, has the potential to see gameplay use so I'll try to reserve judgement.
Considering that such a drop would kill 1/2 my HP in The Witcher, I'm pretty satisfied with that amount of fall damage
Lol TW3 is so weird with fall damage. You negate most of it in most situations if you hold A to roll when you hit the ground.
chozen
Member
I don't get how you guys are okay with the fall damage that was added and it's just a hindering the combat. Witcher and FFXV are completely different games with different systems Witcher has no Air combat FFXV will have that on the regular and I'm expecting us to be fighting in the air at building heights. After killing enemies in the air and then dropping to take damage seems like a flaw. Yes Fantasy based on reality where we can lift a Titan thats 1000 tons but will take damage from the gravity of our own weight.
Not realistic at all. The realism applies to the world like cars, cultures, and locations. How ever the fantasy aspect will be applied to the combat, magic, and creatures. That's what fantasy based on reality is.
Not realistic at all. The realism applies to the world like cars, cultures, and locations. How ever the fantasy aspect will be applied to the combat, magic, and creatures. That's what fantasy based on reality is.
I think the falling damage in XIV is there so that people don't take unnecessary shortcuts when there are stairs and such.
A 50 feet jump down a valley without damage or landing response just looks dumb and glitchy.
People will take the damage since 1 HP will remain anyway. In the end it's pretty minor.
A 50 feet jump down a valley without damage or landing response just looks dumb and glitchy.
People will take the damage since 1 HP will remain anyway. In the end it's pretty minor.
This is how I feel about it.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
There's nothing to leak.
Makoto Yuki
Banned
Like you, I'm also cautiously optimistic about FFXV changes and all. Also, like you, I hope there's a myriad of things to do in the world. I almost want Read Dead Redemption style random encounters. While I doubt that's gonna happen, I hope they at least manage to make the world feel alive.
I recall some sort of Armiger move being used in a trailer as Noctis was fighting on the skyscraper. He has a moment of hang time before teleporting straight down to the ground -- with his phantom swords spinning about briefly. Perhaps it's some sort of ability you gain when you collect that weapon that you may not have previous access to.
Maybe with the proper timing, you wouldn't take fall damage or something.
Maybe with the proper timing, you wouldn't take fall damage or something.
I'll never understand the praise for Tabata though. Toriyama's FFX (ok his not only him), FFX-2, FFXIII, XIII-2 and LR are infinitely better games, Final Fantasy(s) and products than Crisis Core, The 3rd Birthday and Type-0. But well, I can't everyone agreeing with me can't I?
Toriyama has put out way better games ,in terms of gameplay,story ,pacing and pretty much everything.
I don't like Tabata's games at all.Not even a single one of them ,but I am willing to go him the benefit of the doubt because he never worked with on a console with a Major budget.
Thirdbirthday was garbage,Crisis core was bad and Type-0 was meh.
really should've just made a new game
SoraanTribal
Member
I wasn't expecting to, but I actually did prefer the XIII trilogy over Type-0. Maybe I had my expectations way too high for Type-0 and looked at it as a game that I'd never get to play, so it must have been "amazing!" type of thing. Yeah, it was pretty meh indeed. It did some decent things (mainly the battle system), but the story was really the biggest disappointment for me. One big complaint I had was how everything looked so similar in each region.. the level design was absolutely shit. Yeah, I know it was on the PSP, but other games didn't have to copy/paste rooms over and over. I kept hearing about how it had this very dark and fantastic story when it really didn't. Anything that was remotely interesting about the lore/story wasn't even in the main cutscenes, but extra stuff and things I read on wiki. Kind of sad because it had potential. Then again, the XIII series had similar issues about hiding lore/info away from players and in datalogs. Fucking hope XV doesn't have that problem.
Some people kept praising Type-0 because they were desperate for anything new.
The sobering fact is that game really wasn't as good as any of the XIII games ,and it didn't even feel like FF to me at all(well it was a spin off anyway)
Yeah FFXV needs to work on world building ,lore and exposition in general.This needs to come back in full force and not exist in secret menus.
Seven Force
Banned
Eh, that's kinda relative. I think Type-0 is merely okay, but it felt like FF more to me than XIII or it's follow ups ever did.
They mentioned something along the lines of the whole Duscae region being 1/10th of the game. Apparently what we got in the demo is only a part of the Duscae region.
Death Penalty
Member
I agree, but I find myself wondering if they were unable to wiggle out of marketing deals and if they just couldn't afford to waste the assets after all this time. Yeesh, it must be such a mess.
The real shame here, I think, is that Nomura will probably never get another crack at a project of this scale. I adore his projects, and the concepts that he lent Versus XIII remain fantastic. At this stage though I wonder if he'll stay with the company much longer. They seem to be giving him only token projects.
S-E gets a lot of criticism for a lot of things, often rightfully so, but at least they don't let their big projects die. FFXIV is perfect proof of this. FFXV is actually the 2nd "reboot" in a row for the main numbered FF series.
I personally complained about a lot of XV-related things lately, but I'm still thrilled they're making a big game featuring Noctis in this universe. It's just that there's still a lot of mourning to do over what's been lost on the way.
Green Mamba
Member
Yeah, that way we could endure years of goobers clamoring for a cancelled game just like they clamor for a remake of FFVII.
Though I am unsure if years of "well, Nomura wouldn't have let this happen" that are sure to occur after release are going to be any better.
I've said it before, but there's no way S-E can win with FF. I guess it's the price to pay for maintaining a series that's supposed to reinvent itself every iteration over 25 years.
You're bound to divide your fanbase.
Combined with recent failures with management and game engines... gulp.
I hope he doesn't leave.
He's still really important for the company ,because ,through his character design,he's pretty much responsible for the image of the company's Japanese games.
At least officially he's directing KH3 which is one of SE's major upcoming games.
Yeah.I totally respect their willingness to pull through with the game.
Outright canning the game would've been awful ,and would've cause major fan rage and upheaval against the company.
Tabata's games are so bland and forgettable. Crisis Core was so souless, nothing like the original FF7 ;_;
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
My typing fingers are ready to rebut that for the next years. I've played KH games. Nomura is no game designer god .
Kid could draw real good, and they gave him the reigns of a few linear button mashy games that turned out okay... That's about it.
the_sun_king
Member
The strangest thing is that this whole fiasco somehow celebrates Nomura as a creator when we can really only speculate on how his final game would be. Which is equally ridiculous.
YankeeDonB
Member
Considering that such a drop would kill 1/2 my HP in The Witcher, I'm pretty satisfied with that amount of fall damage
Try outright kill you. Geralt takes damage dropping from heights I've jumped in real life with no injury. And he's a super mutant.
He's directing KH3, but it's still not the same as directing THE main project in the company, which he formerly was helming.
Even if it's not the same level of downgrading that Sakaguchi got, it must still sting. Probably even more so, given the team that he's working with probably wasn't the team he was wanting to take into the game.
He has to be aware that he's on thin ice.
He's proven to be a great director with the KH series IMO.
Though your point remains really, we indeed have no idea how the game would've turned out.
The only real mistake was announcing the game too soon back in 2006. And then announcing the reboot too soon again in 2013.
They should've went with a teaser instead of 2x 6min trailers featuring detailed gameplay, if they weren't sure they were going to keep it that way.
That's what most studios do when the game is 3+ years away.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I see lots of kids who played KH when they were very young... growing up in the shadow of Versus' development. They watched youtube trailers. Fell in love with the 30 seconds they saw on loop over and over again. And they studied who made these games and deified Nomura. And they committed to this game being immaculate, if only we would wait for its release.
This whole Tabata-taking the reigns thing is a rude awakening to the fantasy of an immaculate game design being passed down from a designer God who can do no wrong.
It reminds me of how us kids were raised to view George Lucas in the early 90s. A creative mastermind... Would that we would be allowed a piece of his next holy work.
Not much of a fan here tbh.
For sure he is after the removal from FFXV ,but I hope he doesn't leave still $:
The reboot announcement in 2013 was SE's biggest mistake by far regarding this title.
What the heck was the point of that ?
Comparing Nomura to George Lucas is a TAD harsh
I'm guessing they wanted their next-gen presence to be felt next to every other high-profile publishers. I'll be the first to admit I would've been pissed had S-E Japan again be absent of E3 that year.
chozen
Member
Lol I wonder who is a game designer god by your standard.
The fact that you refer button mash and kingdom hearts together tells me you haven't looked at critical mode level 1 runs. Pretty sure you can't button mash through that.
That's absolutely what I think it is (although your description is a bit extreme for me since Nomura is still my favourite creator at SE). I know it's that because we say that stuff like multiple playable characters, airship, Shakespearean tone, darker themes, KH gameplay, Stella, etc. when yes, they sound amazing on paper, but we have no idea how things would have turned out in the final product. Heck, the reason why some of that could not be implemented may have been because these things were very problematic.
I won't deny that the concepts were exciting, but that's all they are...concepts. At the end, it's all empty.
Even if we never really knew much about the old project, I think it's entirely reasonable to have found it more interesting than the current project based on what we know of both.
Same thing with Stella and Luna. We don't know much about either, sure, but it's still enough for people to have something of an opinion.
Same thing with Stella and Luna. We don't know much about either, sure, but it's still enough for people to have something of an opinion.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Case in point I suppose?
I was a grown up when KH came out and I played through the whole thing. One of the lesser Square games of the 1992-2006 run of masterpieces (I'm being generous extending it beyond 1994-2000 actually)
An okay game? Sure. An exceptional game design? By no means.
I think Nomura is capable. On a modest game design. But I don't think he's exceptional... And he may even be a poor game designer if he truly is responsible for Versus's impossible scope.
True. At least Lucas got to make the prequels instead of being pulled from the project.Comparing Nomura to George Lucas is a TAD harsh
Certainly true. KH3 got held up because of XIII and then Versus XIII-now XV. I remember reading articles in 2008 about the need for some staff being pulled from Versus to work on finishing XIII.
We will never know what a KH3 by the Kingdom Hearts team of 1 and 2 would have been like instead of the BBS team.
YankeeDonB
Member
I like Crisis Core, and elements of Type 0, but think Tabata has yet to really prove himself. But, as someone who's never been able to get into Kingdom Hearts, most of Nomura's directing leaves me cold. Whatever my worries are, they're rooted less in the directorial change and more in the aura of uncertainty still surrounding the game (and 2 years after the reboot). Hope Gamescom puts that uncertainty to bed.
chozen
Member
I think if Nomura were given more time (quite some time) he could do it and only him.
So who are exceptional directors and visionaries in the gaming industry ? and what are exceptional game designs by your standards? I'm interested
TheGreatDirector
Banned
A lack of information for the current project and an abundance of information for the old is definitely making these changes seem bad in the public eye. We really have seen too much of Versus as a developing project rather than simply seeing it in at a much more advanced stage. I'm actually a bit relieved XV is skipping E3 in case we got another trailer that would end up as a misrepresentation of the current Final Fantasy XV.
Regarding the cities in XV, what have been people's thoughts on the size of Insomnia.? After reading the post about the guy who thought Accordo would be Los Santos size, I've wondered how big people think Insomnia would be considering all it has ever seemed like was a gigantic opening set piece.
I like Nomura's work. Like a lot. KH3 is one of those games I am looking crazy forward too. I have enjoyed pretty much all of his work.
However, he fucked up on Versus' development and was rightfully replaced. It was taking too long, too many restarts and changes and that falls on the director.
However, he fucked up on Versus' development and was rightfully replaced. It was taking too long, too many restarts and changes and that falls on the director.
When people think about Stella ,they constantly refer to the infamous battle scene ,but you know there's also this scene.
Stella doesn't seem particularly commanding or assertive in this scene in her mannerisms.
I predict both to turn out to be the same/very similar characters.
Stella doesn't seem particularly commanding or assertive in this scene in her mannerisms.
One could easily argue that the look on Luna's face here is pretty resolute and assertive.
We know so little about either character anyway ,but I am just pointing out something that people constantly ignore.
I predict both to turn out to be the same/very similar characters.
InfiniDragon
Member
Crisis Core was fantastic. Haven't played Type-0 so I can't say on that one but that stuff Kagari posted kinda makes me never want to. D:
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Oh trust me I know. Learned by necessity and experience
People calling Nomura's work on Versus XIII "empty" is breaking my heart. You can call it concepts, unfinished product, amazing prospect, vaporware or whatever.
But empty? Holy shit. Lightning Returns XIII to Gamestop is empty. Geeeezz...
This is a hugeeee diference... massive even. The screenshots are speaking volumes in every single scene.
Stella is confidence and action in every other scene. Luna is empty and dead inside, no matter how you look at it.
Look at the screenshot.
Anxious in every scene. It's fine. I like variety. But how can you not see the big departure from Stella?
But empty? Holy shit. Lightning Returns XIII to Gamestop is empty. Geeeezz...
When people think about Stella ,they constantly refer to the infamous battle scene ,but you know there's also this scene.
Stella doesn't seem particularly commanding or assertive in this scene in her mannerisms.
One could easily argue that the look on Luna's face here is pretty resolute and assertive.
We know so little about either character anyway ,but I am just pointing out something that people constantly ignore.
I predict both to turn out to be the same/very similar characters.
This is a hugeeee diference... massive even. The screenshots are speaking volumes in every single scene.
Stella is confidence and action in every other scene. Luna is empty and dead inside, no matter how you look at it.
Look at the screenshot.
Anxious in every scene. It's fine. I like variety. But how can you not see the big departure from Stella?
I agree that they probably are roughly going to end up the same character and that Luna's expression *could* imply that she's more than just a damsel in distress, but I think it's wrong to discount the Stella battle scene just because there was also a scene that painted them in a similar light. Again, with what we've seen of the two characters, it's entirely reasonable for have liked what they saw of one character over the other (with the caveat of knowing that both characters are obviously only very little slices of what the final product represents).When people think about Stella ,they constantly refer to the infamous battle scene ,but you know there's also this scene.
Stella doesn't seem particularly commanding or assertive in this scene in her mannerisms.
One could easily argue that the look on Luna's face here is pretty resolute and assertive.
We know so little about either character anyway ,but I am just pointing out something that people constantly ignore.
I predict both to turn out to be the same/very similar characters.
It doesn't mean FFXV is definitely going to be a worse game for dumping Stella and putting in Luna, but I don't blame people for being less interested because of it. It's the game's job to win them over, after all.
jimmypython
Member
Type-0 is a better game than CCFF7 IMO - although not jaw dropping/god like, a very natural improvement between the first and second game from a same person's direction.
Tabata's directing ability has been improving at a normal pace over the years...and it is a reasonable decision to let him do a console FF game. That being said, why didn't the company let him do a whole new XV and Nomura finish his versus is beyond me. The "Nomura doesn't finish game" excuse simply cannot stand.