AMD Radeon Fury X Series | HBM, Small Form Factor And Water Cooling | June 16th

Kikorin said:
I'm so confused right now. I need a new pc (I still have the glorious 8800gts 512mb), but I've been out of the hardware world for looooong time. Best choice for me looks to be the 980 ti, but I don't well understand what AMD will show in short time.

I think I'll still wait a month or two before decide where spend my money.
Click to expand...
A 980ti is a good buy in that it is pretty much on par with the fastest card currently available and will definitely see you through playing all console ports this generation really well.

It's not a particularly good buy in terms of price/performance (the highest-end NV card which is good in that metric is the 970).
 
Another 300 series card leaked: AMD Radeon R7 370 leaked

AMD-Radeon-R7-370-Performance1.png
 
i doubt it has the power consumption of a GTX750ti though, which is a massive plus for that card as it also doesn't require an extra power source.
 
DBT85 said:
A Fury line of cards.
Click to expand...

And when does that release? Also, what is the card called? I was following this thread fairly closely up until a few days ago what changed? I tried reading back a few pages and it's just some back and forth about which card is getting what.
 
bomblord1 said:
Wait I thought the 390X was fiji?? Then which card IS the new HBM on?
Click to expand...

The Fiji GPU will be marketed under the product name Radeon Fury. It's been rumoured for some time that the 300 series products would be tweaked 200 series GPUs.

EDIT: It'll all be announced on June 16th.
 
bomblord1 said:
And when does that release? Also, what is the card called? I was following this thread fairly closely up until a few days ago what changed? I tried reading back a few pages and it's just some back and forth about which card is getting what.
Click to expand...

Release is not known, but announce should be the 16th. Hopefully if you got in a t the front of the queue you'd be able to get one before the end of June.

Names look like Fury Pro, Fury XT and Fury Nano at this stage. Possibly the Pro and XT models will by long triple fan units and the Nano would be a hybrid model since the PCB will be much smaller on this card compared to the 290x for example.

Rodin said:
So it should be slower than the 980ti and more like the 980 right?
Click to expand...

If they buff the 290x a bit they might get it to match or jsut beat the 980 and I'd expect a lower price too.
 
Hope this works for AMD, maybe they will have the better/more affordable 4K card.

However I stuck with my gut feeling and went with the evga acx 2.0+ 980ti SC from newegg this weekend. Evga has treated me well over the years.. And I really wanted that hair physics ability for witcher3.

Really hope AMD has their drivers up to snuff and that this card does well so that HBM and 14nm graphics will be uber competitive. so we as customers win =D
 
wachie said:
What you should have said was that Nvidia has mindshare on their side. Even if Nvidia GTX Y has less VRAM than comparable AMD Radeon Z, most people would still buy Nvidia.

You will likely see this with GTX 970 3.5GB vs 390X 8GB.
Click to expand...

This has happened before though. The 7970 launched with 3GB while the 680 only had 2GB and people didn't consider it a big deal then. Sure, we were still on last gen so VRAM requirements weren't booming that much yet. The same thing sort of applies to power consumption. ATi/AMD had em beat on performance/W for three generations, but that didn't stop anyone from buying 480s. People just like to flipflop between things to tout that puts their favourite brand in a good light. I guess that's how brand wars just go.

Edit: like it has been mentioned before, perception is one of the major factors that sells cards.
 
bomblord1 said:
And when does that release? Also, what is the card called? I was following this thread fairly closely up until a few days ago what changed? I tried reading back a few pages and it's just some back and forth about which card is getting what.
Click to expand...
I posted it as a separate thread - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1049274

It's also posted in this thread, just more than a few pages deep.
Nachtmaer said:
This has happened before though. The 7970 launched with 3GB while the 680 only had 2GB and people didn't consider it a big deal then. Sure, we were still on last gen so VRAM requirements weren't booming that much yet. The same thing sort of applies to power consumption. ATi/AMD had em beat on performance/W for three generations, but that didn't stop anyone from buying 480s. People just like to flipflop between things to tout that puts their favourite brand in a good light. I guess that's how brand wars just go.

Edit: like it has been mentioned before, perception is one of the major factors that sells cards.
Click to expand...
Yes, back then it was "did you look at this feature X". People complained about the Crossfire dongles (back in the R380 series) but now that the situation is reversed, it's "fine".
 
Just noticed that wccftech is saying they have the prices for the 300 series (and they're seemingly aggressive)

Enthusiast R9 390X 8GB Enhanced Hawaii $389
Enthusiast R9 390 8GB Enhanced Hawaii $329
Performance R9 380 4GB / R9 380X 3GB
(NOT CONFIRMED) Tonga $239-$249
Performance R9 380 2GB Tonga $195
Performance R7 370 2GB Pitcairn $135
Performance R7 360 2GB Bonaire $107

http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-300-series-pricing-confirmed-aggressive/#ixzz3cTbYrd3i
 
^ wouldnt believe them just yet. They said 980Ti "exclusive" price reveal was $799 only to later edit it.

Still not a full Tonga. AMD, why you do this?
 
wachie said:
Yes, back then it was "did you look at this feature X". People complained about the Crossfire dongles (back in the R380 series) but now that the situation is reversed, it's "fine".
Click to expand...
While there is a lot of defence-force apologist trolling in these topics since forever, situations change. When the 4xx series was new, people were not really looking to stuff big GPUs in ITX boxes for instance. This is something that only became possible and common very recently.

Performance per W has become very significant in the last 3 years but wasn't always the case. Also the 4xx series outperformed many of AMD's offerings at the time on benchmarks which is what people at the time were looking for.
 
wachie said:
^ wouldnt believe them just yet. They said 980Ti "exclusive" price reveal was $799 only to later edit it.

Still not a full Tonga. AMD, why you do this?
Click to expand...

They took the driver team and put them solely on Windows 10,with that said they seem to be going all in on 16/14nm. The Rx-3xx should all be GCN 1.2 at the least but they're not, makes me wonder if there's going to be a GCN 1.3/2.0 or if they have a new architecture.
 
jett said:
It will be pretty strange if their premium Fury line is limited to 4GB.
Click to expand...

?

hbm has 1st gen limitations.

If you want big ass cards for a tower because OMG 4k skyrim extreme gfx mods, there are lots of 6-12gb models around.

Personally, I'm curious to see what kind of powerhouse can be crammed into an itx.
 
belmonkey said:
Just noticed that wccftech is saying they have the prices for the 300 series (and they're seemingly aggressive)

Enthusiast R9 390X 8GB Enhanced Hawaii $389
Enthusiast R9 390 8GB Enhanced Hawaii $329
Performance R9 380 4GB / R9 380X 3GB
(NOT CONFIRMED) Tonga $239-$249
Performance R9 380 2GB Tonga $195
Performance R7 370 2GB Pitcairn $135
Performance R7 360 2GB Bonaire $107

http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-300-series-pricing-confirmed-aggressive/#ixzz3cTbYrd3i
Click to expand...

R9 380X with 3GB makes zero sense in this line and would likely have 6GB instead.

Otherwise let's stack them up against current NV lineup:

kINPZSp.png


So unless 380X will end up being faster than 970 somehow the only pressure and "aggressive" part in this lineup is 390X which may end up on 980 performance level while having twice the RAM size. Am I missing something?
 
dr_rus said:
R9 380X with 3GB makes zero sense in this line and would likely have 6GB instead.

Otherwise let's stack them up against current NV lineup:

kINPZSp.png


So unless 380X will end up being faster than 970 somehow the only pressure and "aggressive" part in this lineup is 390X which may end up on 980 performance level while having twice the RAM size. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

benchmarks.
 
jett said:
It will be pretty strange if their premium Fury line is limited to 4GB.
Click to expand...

At this point it seems likely. The known limitations of HBM 1 together with AMD's statement recently about how lacking GDDR5 memory management has been are telling.

AMD said:
"You're not limited in this world to any number of stacks, but from a capacity point of view, this generation-one HBM, each DRAM is a two-gigabit DRAM, so yeah, if you have four stacks you're limited to four gigabytes. You could build things with more stacks, you could build things with less stacks. Capacity of the frame buffer is just one of our concerns. There are many things you can do to utilise that capacity better. So if you have four stacks you're limited to four [gigabytes], but we don't really view that as a performance limitation from an AMD perspective."

"If you actually look at frame buffers and how efficient they are and how efficient the drivers are at managing capacities across the resolutions, you'll find that there's a lot that can be done. We do not see 4GB as a limitation that would cause performance bottlenecks. We just need to do a better job managing the capacities. We were getting free capacity, because with [GDDR5] in order to get more bandwidth we needed to make the memory system wider, so the capacities were increasing. As engineers, we always focus on where the bottleneck is. If you're getting capacity, you don't put as much effort into better utilising that capacity. 4GB is more than sufficient. We've had to go do a little bit of investment in order to better utilise the frame buffer, but we're not really seeing a frame buffer capacity [problem]. You'll be blown away by how much [capacity] is wasted."
Click to expand...
 
From AMD's comments, it seems like their memory management was (is) ass and they didnt have to do much to make amends. If thats enough for 4K with 4GB, we dont know. But it does throw a wrench in the "VRAM benchmarks" we have had until now.

Fiji rumored specs also list 128 ROPs (33% more than Titan X), so it will be a shame if the card is bottle necked by VRAM limit.
 
Disappointing if there's no full Tonga.

8GB DDR5 to compete against the 970/980. So AMD will have a memory advantage here, but not at the high end. I've always felt the 290/290X had more long term potential than the 970 due to GCN longevity and not having Frankenstein VRAM, so having a full 8GB should help some more.
 
Theonik said:
While there is a lot of defence-force apologist trolling in these topics since forever, situations change. When the 4xx series was new, people were not really looking to stuff big GPUs in ITX boxes for instance. This is something that only became possible and common very recently.

Performance per W has become very significant in the last 3 years but wasn't always the case. Also the 4xx series outperformed many of AMD's offerings at the time on benchmarks which is what people at the time were looking for.
Click to expand...
Perf/W was/is always important. I find it double standards to complain about it now.
 
wachie said:
Perf/W was/is always important. I find it double standards to complain about it now.
Click to expand...
The amount of importance one gives to it absolutely depends entirely on their use cases.
People's use cases are different now whether you think it is hypocritical or not.

Edit: People weren't building compact machines where thermal performance was tight at the time with those cards but now that is possible so people value that more.
An i7 960 at the time came with a TDP of 130w compared to 65w Broadwell today. And nVidia still got panned by a lot of people for it hence why they improved on it in the 5xx and beyond series.
 
So is it the 390x that was benching 105% better than Titan? Or we're in a wait and see mode since we don't know?

105% better than Titan and more than half the price seems insane and would put 980ti to shame too.
 
Amey said:
Longer PCB isn't required for big blower. Remember gtx670 ref version.
They can use same small PCB with multiple Cooler Designs.

nvidia-geforce-GTX-670_2.jpg
Click to expand...

I think that is something they want to avoid though. All those Nvidia cards would buzz from the vibrations which was especially annoying when they were idling and supposed to be quiet. It's one of the main reasons I spent a lot of time tracking down a reference 7870 (they quickly stopped production of them to save cost) for my case which needed a blower over all of the blower 660s that were available with the same short PCB.
 
Shining Sunshine said:
So is it the 390x that was benching 105% better than Titan? Or we're in a wait and see mode since we don't know?

105% better than Titan and more than half the price seems insane and would put 980ti to shame too.
Click to expand...

The card that will go up against the Titan X will be branded Fury (Fiji chip). Supposedly there'll be three variations but we don't know yet which one will be the top one. Its performance is still up in the air, but we do know that it's pretty huge. Last calculations I saw based on the picture put it somewhere between 550 and 600mm² whereas GM200/Titan X is 601mm².

The rest of the numbered 300 series are most likely going to be rebrands or respins.
 
Untalkative_Bunny said:
?

hbm has 1st gen limitations.

If you want big ass cards for a tower because OMG 4k skyrim extreme gfx mods, there are lots of 6-12gb models around.

Personally, I'm curious to see what kind of powerhouse can be crammed into an itx.
Click to expand...


Why are you downplaying and mocking the importance of 4K? It's the next "frontier" of gaming, and making enthusiast cards with enough memory and performance to handle it is what companies should currently be focused on for their top end. nVidia has solidified their commitment with upping the VRAM on the 980Ti to 6gb and having the Titan X with 12gb. 4K simply consumes a massive amount of VRAM and needs these ridiculous numbers, especially going forward.

What's the point of releasing a $700-900 enthusiast card using HBM if it can't handle the resolution enthusiasts want to play at due to VRAM limitations? The use of HBM is entirely insignificant if it doesn't equate to real, tangible, demonstrable performance increases. If HBM has memory limitations at 4GB, then maybe it shouldn't have been on this line of high-end cards.

Further, you've been able to stick a full-sized GPU in an ITX case for ages now. I had a full custom loop watercooling system with a 780 Ti inside of a Corsair 250D over a year ago, and many other people do too. And there are even smaller cases that support full sized graphics cards, see the Raven:

http://www.silverstonetek.com/raven/products/index.php?model=RVZ01

Anyways, being smaller to fit in small form factors is "interesting" but not a selling point. Case manufacturers have already adapter their ITX designs to allow for full-sized GPUs.

What I want to see out of AMD is aggressive pricing and an enthusiast card that will convince me to skip out on Titan X and go for their offering instead. Which is still a hard sell considering their long standing driver/software issues and suboptimal Crossfire support.

I wanted to be excited about this announcement, but everything reported so far about the Fury line seems "meh".
 
Nachtmaer said:
The card that will go up against the Titan X will be branded Fury (Fiji chip). Supposedly there'll be three variations but we don't know yet which one will be the top one. Its performance is still up in the air, but we do know that it's pretty huge. Last calculations I saw based on the picture put it somewhere between 550 and 600mm² whereas GM200/Titan X is 601mm².

The rest of the numbered 300 series are most likely going to be rebrands or respins.
Click to expand...

Ah okay. So those ones with the prices aren't the big one.
 
Holy shit I pray and hope those prices are real. Kind of irks me when I see estimates from some and they have the prices at $700-$900. Its like they are hoping for expensive out the ass cards.

Again, hopefully those prices are real, if they are, ATI may experience a renaissance like they did with the Radeon 9800 Pro.
 
victor.m said:
Why are you downplaying and mocking the importance of 4K? It's the next "frontier" of gaming, and making enthusiast cards with enough memory and performance to handle it is what companies should currently be focused on for their top end. nVidia has solidified their commitment with upping the VRAM on the 980Ti to 6gb and having the Titan X with 12gb. 4K simply consumes a massive amount of VRAM and needs these ridiculous numbers, especially going forward.
Click to expand...
Because most PC gamers don't have 4K capable monitors, never mind 1440p ones?
 
LQX said:
Holy shit I pray and hope those prices are real. Kind of irks me when I see estimates from some and they have the prices at $700-$900. Its like they are hoping for expensive out the ass cards.

Again, hopefully those prices are real, if they are, ATI may experience a renaissance like they did with the Radeon 9800 Pro.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind these aren't Fiji. Fiji will be the $600, $700, $800 whatever it is set of three GPUs.
 
victor.m said:
Why are you downplaying and mocking the importance of 4K? It's the next "frontier" of gaming, and making enthusiast cards with enough memory and performance to handle it is what companies should currently be focused on for their top end. nVidia has solidified their commitment with upping the VRAM on the 980Ti to 6gb and having the Titan X with 12gb. 4K simply consumes a massive amount of VRAM and needs these ridiculous numbers, especially going forward.

What's the point of releasing a $700-900 enthusiast card using HBM if it can't handle the resolution enthusiasts want to play at due to VRAM limitations? The use of HBM is entirely insignificant if it doesn't equate to real, tangible, demonstrable performance increases. If HBM has memory limitations at 4GB, then maybe it shouldn't have been on this line of high-end cards.

Further, you've been able to stick a full-sized GPU in an ITX case for ages now. I had a full custom loop watercooling system with a 780 Ti inside of a Corsair 250D over a year ago, and many other people do too. And there are even smaller cases that support full sized graphics cards, see the Raven:

http://www.silverstonetek.com/raven/products/index.php?model=RVZ01

Anyways, being smaller to fit in small form factors is "interesting" but not a selling point. Case manufacturers have already adapter their ITX designs to allow for full-sized GPUs.

What I want to see out of AMD is aggressive pricing and an enthusiast card that will convince me to skip out on Titan X and go for their offering instead. Which is still a hard sell considering their long standing driver/software issues and suboptimal Crossfire support.

I wanted to be excited about this announcement, but everything reported so far about the Fury line seems "meh".
Click to expand...
Well at present, there are two frontiers of gaming. There is 4K on one hand, then there is 90-144hz g/free-sync in 1080p and 1600p. The smaller HBM pool and future games using Vulkan and DX12, should allow AMD to make a good case to the high-end as long as the card is fast, without 4K. Nvidia was dragging behind AMD for a time at higher resolutions in a lot of games for instance and that didn't really affect them so I don't expect 4K will be as important as you think, but things have changed.

AMD's biggest hurdle at the moment is that they have pretty much lost the performance badge in the eyes of consumers. It will take them a lot of effort to break from that stigma, where people think that AMD only makes cheaper inferior cards for people who can't afford nVidia.
 
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