AMD Radeon Fury X Series | HBM, Small Form Factor And Water Cooling | June 16th

LQX said:
Holy shit I pray and hope those prices are real. Kind of irks me when I see estimates from some and they have the prices at $700-$900. Its like they are hoping for expensive out the ass cards.

Again, hopefully those prices are real, if they are, ATI may experience a renaissance like they did with the Radeon 9800 Pro.
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These are "rebrand" cards though. If you compare the old 200 to the proposed 300 series pricing it's looking like this:

R9 290X 4GB @ $330 -> R9 390X 8GB @ $390
R9 290 4GB @$270 -> R9 390 8GB @ $330
R9 280X 3GB @ $230 -> R9 380X 3/6GB @ $240
R9 285 2GB @ $200 -> R9 380 2GB @ $195

While I expect 300 cards to be a bit faster due to overclocks and new chips (Grenada instead of Hawaii for example) I'd say that on average this looks to be upping the prices, not lowering them.
 
godelsmetric said:
why not just have both hbm and gddr
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I think the main advantage of HBM is saving space by having a much smaller memory interface on the die so adding GDDR5 (along with the memory interface) would remove it. Chips have to be quite large as they're still stuck on 28nm for big chips.

Here you go:
Another advantage of HBM is that it requires substantially less die space on the host GPU than GDDR5. The physical interfaces, or PHYs, on the chip are simpler, saving space. The external connections to the interposer are arranged at a much finer pitch than they would be for a conventional organic substrate, which means a more densely packed die. Macri hinted that even the data flow inside the GPU itself could be optimized to take advantage of data coming in "in a very concentrated hump."
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This is a big advantage for AMD because it means they can use more die space for the GPU and make a 'bigger chip' on the same node. They've also needed more memory bandwidth than Nvidia for a while now.
 
TC McQueen said:
Because most PC gamers don't have 4K capable monitors, never mind 1440p ones?
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And most people don't have $800 to drop on a graphics card. That doesn't mean that top-end, enthusiast cards shouldn't be able to play games at enthusiast resolutions. 4k60hz G-Sync monitors exist and are becoming more common. To be honest, VRAM concerns will start to be an issue even for 1440p gaming.

Not to mention that downsampling for increased quality is a very real and VRAM-demanding process. I know nVidia has built-in driver support for this with DSR, but it can be done on any card using GeDoSaTo, etc. There are tangible benefits to rendering at 4K even for people not on a 4K panel.

I think the point is that when you're dropping $700+ on a graphics card, you are likely in the enthusiast segment that cares about having a 4K/1440p monitor or downsampling. If given a choice, and there's a $700 AMD HBM card that performs at 100% of the performance of a 980 Ti in non-VRAM limited applications, but with 4GB VRAM, why in the world would you choose AMD's offering? To have a card with HBM? Who cares?

Theonik said:
Well at present, there are two frontiers of gaming. There is 4K on one hand, then there is 90-144hz g/free-sync in 1080p and 1600p. The smaller HBM pool and future games using Vulkan and DX12, should allow AMD to make a good case to the high-end as long as the card is fast, without 4K. Nvidia was dragging behind AMD for a time at higher resolutions in a lot of games for instance and that didn't really affect them so I don't expect 4K will be as important as you think, but things have changed.

AMD's biggest hurdle at the moment is that they have pretty much lost the performance badge in the eyes of consumers. It will take them a lot of effort to break from that stigma, where people think that AMD only makes cheaper inferior cards for people who can't afford nVidia.
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Unfortunately, it doesn't seem the Fury line is looking to fix that, if rumors are true. Why would someone spend as much/more for a comparable card to the 980 Ti/TitanX with less VRAM but new tech (HBM)? HBM only seems useful if it leads to real performance advantages, but not as much if it's restricting how much VRAM the card has.

I don't know, I just can't imagine a true enthusiast build nowadays having anything but at least a 1440p IPS G-Sync monitor. There aren't even 1080p IPS G-Sync monitors available (note on IPS).

With many more 1440p/4K IPS G-Sync monitors launching soon, people are going to want cards with VRAM that stacks up to those resolutions in modern games. We're seeing open world games like GTA V push past 4GB even in 1440p, I don't suspect this is going to go down in games released later on in the year and into the next. Not to mention VR.

I just hope the situation with Fury isn't "compares equally to 980 Ti in price and performance, but with 4gb of VRAM, BUT LOOK, HBM!!". I'd like to see either a) cheaper than 980 TI with the same numbers, or b) better performance by a decent margin (10-20%) at the same price, but expect AMD to lose out on the 4K/1440p gamer market with only 4gb of VRAM.
 
dr_rus said:
These are "rebrand" cards though. If you compare the old 200 to the proposed 300 series pricing it's looking like this:

R9 290X 4GB @ $330 -> R9 390X 8GB @ $390
R9 290 4GB @$270 -> R9 390 8GB @ $330
R9 280X 3GB @ $230 -> R9 380X 3/6GB @ $240
R9 285 2GB @ $200 -> R9 380 2GB @ $195

While I expect 300 cards to be a bit faster due to overclocks and new chips (Grenada instead of Hawaii for example) I'd say that on average this looks to be upping the prices, not lowering them.
Click to expand...

4GB more memory on the 390X/390 is probably worth the extra $50 if they are clocked higher than their old counterparts.
 
I really, REALLY want to see the benchmarks of that 390.
If it's better than the 970, and those prices are real, it's AMD this gen for me.
 
Yeah, these prices if straight REBRANDS look good on paper, but would prompt me to buy a 290X right now for even cheaper if true, if I was in the market. Heat, Wattage and eco system still need to factor in, especially at this price point.

If the rumours of RESPINS from TSMC to GlobalFoundries (Hawaii vs. Greneda) hold true, and these also come with efficiency bumps and GCN improvements, then these can be amazing.

One week away from the entire detailed reveal and reviews hopefully.
 
What exactly is Grenada? Is it supposed to be a similar kind of thing to Tonga with GCN 1.2, allowing better performance for the bandwidth (like how the R9 285 had 25% less bandwidth and could still trade blows with the R9 280, or slightly beat it)?
 
Abilidebob said:
I really, REALLY want to see the benchmarks of that 390.
If it's better than the 970, and those prices are real, it's AMD this gen for me.
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Same here. I fully expect 390 to at least have equal performance if that price holds true. 390 or 390X will be my next card if the performance is there and the prices are like this.
 
Abilidebob said:
I really, REALLY want to see the benchmarks of that 390.
If it's better than the 970, and those prices are real, it's AMD this gen for me.
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Interesting that despite all the hype about their Fury HBM cards, we must not forget that the 390 and GPUs under it is a more lucrative market than the super-enthusiast bracket that the 980 Ti and the Titan X also occupy at the top.

If AMD can make the 390 a 970 killer (faster, cheaper, double the memory), they might actually make some sales.
 
Fury is pretty exciting, but i'm most hyped about 390x.

If AMD can give me a card that generates less heat and noise than a 290x. And have a performance on par with the 980 i think i know were i'm going to spend my net upgrade money.
 
Even if it's rebranded and a high clock speed $390 is a very good price especially at 8GB. I really want to see how that card performs.
 
If those prices are real then dang.. I expect the rebrands to be at least 5-10% faster than the current 2xx cards. Compared to current benches of 2xx cards and throwing in 8GB will make them mighty tempting.
 
EvoMaldonado said:
Is water cooling the only option for the 390X? I've no experience with that type of cooling and thus a little apprehensive : (
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No, there's all sorts of air cooled options. But, you don't really need experience with it anyway. Just a 120mm fan mount.
KingTiger13 said:
so is it strategically in my best interest to wait on these after they're released, then wait on the 290x's price drop ?
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Impossible to say for sure. It'll likely happen at the same time though.
 
Seanspeed said:
Don't think there will be any price drop.
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I don't think so either. Old cards tend to disappear from the market rather than go down in price when a new range is introduced.

At least in the UK, 290/X prices have gone up from a few months ago, and there don't seem to be the same wide range of cards available now.
 
All I'm really interested in is 1080p gaming with all the bells and whistles turned on. Whichever card can do that with the best combination of price and real world performance will get my money. The 980Ti is a strong contender but I'm waiting to see how the Fury line looks. It only makes sense to have all of the information before making a decision. For me, 4GB of Vram is probably ok considering nothing that I am currently playing is using even that much.
 
I thought they weren't supposed to be announcing anything until after E3.
Sooner is certainly better. I'm pretty stoked to hear more about HBM and Fiji.

Not stoked at the prospect of having to sell my 295x2 setup though.... It feels like I just bought it.
 
kabel said:
Also in 1440p and more there will be a huge difference because of 3.5GB vs. 8GB.
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4GB of VRAM is hardly an issue for anything in between 2560x1440 to 4K currently. If you're expecting a huge difference because of that you'll be disappointed. Pixel fill rate is more important here so it's better to have more ROPs than more memory.
 
dr_rus said:
4GB of VRAM is hardly an issue for anything in between 2560x1440 to 4K currently. If you're expecting a huge difference because of that you'll be disappointed. Pixel fill rate is more important here so it's better to have more ROPs than more memory.
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I was hinting at the new games this fall, which I fear will mosty pump every bit and byte into the VRAM because that seems to be new style of game optimization.
 
kabel said:
I was hinting at the new games this fall, which I fear will mosty pump every bit and byte into the VRAM because that seems to be new style of game optimization.
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The PS4 and Bone have 8GB of shared memory, that's why VRAM usage has suddenly ballooned in the last 2 years.
 
Idempotent Button said:
I thought they weren't supposed to be announcing anything until after E3.
Sooner is certainly better. I'm pretty stoked to hear more about HBM and Fiji.

Not stoked at the prospect of having to sell my 295x2 setup though.... It feels like I just bought it.
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Why would you have to sell it?
 
DPB said:
I don't think so either. Old cards tend to disappear from the market rather than go down in price when a new range is introduced.

At least in the UK, 290/X prices have gone up from a few months ago, and there don't seem to be the same wide range of cards available now.
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It seems that many Aussie vendors have seemingly cleared their 290/290x lines all together, after having a small clearance sale on them. I was hoping for more drastic price cuts, but have missed out altogether on that line.

So I'm certainly hoping for the 3xx series to be as good or better bang-for-buck in the sub $500 price bracket, though ideally in the sub $400.

I may have to trawl the second hand market, grab someone's 970 or 290 when they look to upgrade.
 
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