Witcher 3 downgrade arguments in here and nowhere else
- Thread starter Jigolo
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anderyoung
Member
I just installed this sweetfx mod by powerplay and wow the game is a "world" of difference, a lot sharper, sharper objects in distance, less orange, a lot less muddled and GRASS!
Comparison Video
http://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f146/sweetfx-p0werp1ay-993812-10.html#post23494904
download "The Witcher 3 by Powerplay Final V1.3" in the link above
unpack the files here
C:\GOG Games\The Witcher 3 Wild Hunt\bin\x64
load the game and press F12
icecold1983
Member
looks worse IMO. the increased sharpness and contrast just serves to exacerbate the poor vegetation/lighting/IQ.
I did wonder what it was that seemed different, looking at the game now compared back then. At first I actually just thought i had adapted to the current gen quickly and was just seeing all the flaws.
I wouldn't really say the game necessarily looks that much worse now despite looking fairly plain in comparison, but really it makes me think that this seems like the earlier trailers should be what "Ultra" is and the current "Ultra" settings are suppose to be "High".
Since really it's mainly filtering work and extra effects, aside from the image of that one part of the castle looking noticeably bare and simpler which could have been changed for any number of reasons, it's not like a model like that would make a noticeable difference in performance on anything, so that was probably a design choice or even just a bug that's not showing the correct model, who really knows.
I'd be curious to see since the missing effects are mainly just that, effects, if the devs decide to eventually release a DLC thing that gives PC users the option to turn on that extra stuff.
At least this isn't as massive of a difference as Dark Souls II had, despite apparently leading on PC in development.
I wouldn't really say the game necessarily looks that much worse now despite looking fairly plain in comparison, but really it makes me think that this seems like the earlier trailers should be what "Ultra" is and the current "Ultra" settings are suppose to be "High".
Since really it's mainly filtering work and extra effects, aside from the image of that one part of the castle looking noticeably bare and simpler which could have been changed for any number of reasons, it's not like a model like that would make a noticeable difference in performance on anything, so that was probably a design choice or even just a bug that's not showing the correct model, who really knows.
I'd be curious to see since the missing effects are mainly just that, effects, if the devs decide to eventually release a DLC thing that gives PC users the option to turn on that extra stuff.
At least this isn't as massive of a difference as Dark Souls II had, despite apparently leading on PC in development.
texhnolyze
Banned
Just took a couple of screenshot of this supposedly "last-gen graphics game".
Are those supposed to look impressive?
Despite the unarguable downgrade and the art style change, I've seen screens that actually manage to look impressive (a rare thing, though):
texhnolyze
Banned
Have you played the game?
icecold1983
Member
you act like looking better than a gen 7 title is some impressive feat
Maybe they ought to upgrade the PC graphics properly with the release of the 980ti at the great price, and whatever amd has cooking. Plus pascal next year...tw3 might end up looking dated quite quickly, even on consoles with EA's magical lighting tech apparently, - but have it compete on PC at least...cutscene graphics would be good.
Uupp-grade, Uupp-grade, Uupp-grade.
Uupp-grade, Uupp-grade, Uupp-grade.
jim2point0
Banned
Heh. Couldn't resist posting this here.
Remember this gif?
In-game (about as close as I could get it in about 5 minutes):
Remember this gif?
In-game (about as close as I could get it in about 5 minutes):
icecold1983
Member
original gif looks a lot better, tho im sure that wont be a popular opinion.
viveks86
Member
Heh. Couldn't resist posting this here.
Remember this gif?
In-game (about as close as I could get it in about 5 minutes):
Could you point where on the map this is? Want to try it out as well.
jim2point0
Banned
No, I agree.
The lighting is the biggest difference to me. The shadows in the GIF blend much nicer, whereas in the final game, there's not enough ambient light to properly light the shadows, so they appear way too dark. Lack of global illumination and all... =(
Sadly a lot of the chimney smoke is removed. It's still there, but way harder to see from this angle, and not nearly as impressive looking.
Lurtch (in Velen)
The lighting is the biggest difference to me. The shadows in the GIF blend much nicer, whereas in the final game, there's not enough ambient light to properly light the shadows, so they appear way too dark. Lack of global illumination and all... =(
Sadly a lot of the chimney smoke is removed. It's still there, but way harder to see from this angle, and not nearly as impressive looking.
Lurtch (in Velen)
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Pretty sure it's Lurtch.
Cave Johnson
Member
Heh. Couldn't resist posting this here.
Remember this gif?
In-game (about as close as I could get it in about 5 minutes):
Draw distance and FoV really do stand out... Ugh. I know the game deserves its accolades but I'm still sour about this.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
From the OT.
viveks86
Member
The chimney itself is removed!
Pretty sure that thing pops in out of nowhere as you get really close :/
GhostTrick
Banned
It's all about the draw distance too. Look how the field in the distance looks like. Less trees, yet more alive thanks to lighting. And now ? Looks all foggy and dead despite the higher number of trees.
icecold1983
Member
the grass still looks bad to me
alexandros
Banned
Yeah, that is my take on it as well.
jim2point0
Banned
From the OT.
Sadly that's much closer to what you normally get in-game. Even darker shadows with the much more yellowish palette.
You can tell that I've pushed my grass density a lot higher too
I didn't have any of those NPCs though
I'm not going to argue that. I just wanted to put up a comparison for this scene now that I've finally seen it for myself.
jim2point0
Banned
It's easily the best looking game there is, imo. Considering its scale that is.
It hurts me to look at that screenshot because my eyes go directly towards the blurry building.
LOD textures are a real problem in this game
There's also a shit-ton of ReShade used for that shot.
Wait why did someone re-upoad that to abload.de... lol
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I've seen people say that Red Dead or GTAV on (360 no less) looks better, which is pretty ridiculous. People need to play more last gen console games to get a reminder of what they looked like in comparison to the witcher 3It's easily the best looking game there is, imo. Considering its scale that is.
icecold1983
Member
That's absolutely fine. Since I said "considering its scale", are you thinking of a game that's as huge as Witcher 3 and has as many different locations with unique assets (Skellige with its "Alps style" mountains, Velen with its swamps, fields and sandy areas and Kaer Mohren which is completely unique again)? If there is a game this huge and with so many different locations looking as good as Witcher 3, I'd love to know about it.
Even better if it's well optimized and I can play it at 60 FPS with my R9 290.
icecold1983
Member
Just use a SweetFX config and the colors will be much better.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
GTAV doesn't use PBR, has very little interiors, don't even get me started on the terribad cloth physics and hair physics compared to 3. Some Foliage, rain effects, lighting system were great for a last gen remaster but it definitely takes a back seat to the Witcher 3.
DOWN
Banned
Let's not pretend this is really what the devs actually handed out and I don't understand this "best there is considering scale" metricIt's easily the best looking game there is, imo. Considering its scale that is.
That's it all right
icecold1983
Member
witcher 3 might as well not use pbr. i wouldnt be surprised if it wasnt using it at all and it was just more lies by cdpr. if it is using pbr its the worst implementation ive seen. the only area witcher beats gta v is character models(not animation)
lordfuzzybutt
Member
Yeah keep telling yourself that.
Dictator93
Member
I am so sorry, but this is so patently silly. Have you seen the materials up close? They are much more accurate and have fresnel among other properties which GTA V does not even have. It is definitely using some form of PBR.
Let alone how leather or clothing looks in this game. GTA on the other hand has more in common with the shading in something like mad mod mike then the Witcher 3.
Each of these materials has different microstructure and rather accurate reflectance properties; the two different leathers, dull metal on the sword hilts and sheaths, and the much more reflective metal of the chainmail
or in this screen, the candle is showing sub surface scattering the increases towards the candle wick (and light source) while the pewter goblets are extremely dull (like pewter).
icecold1983
Member
im not sure what mad mod mike is, but yes witcher 3 has better characters than gta v. thats the only time the materials ever look plausible. i played around in the starting area after you wake up from the dream for a bit, but i havent progressed passed the cutscene where you save that guy with the dumb and dumber soup bowl haircut.. i do regularly view the pc SS thread and have not seen any materials outside of character models that look good.
just saw the screen you added, mind pointing me to some screens of the world that you think have good materials?
That's because you have no interest in a balanced discussion.
This game is clearly still one of the best looking games around, and you absolutely /must/ consider scale when making comparisons to other games.
Those other games that are touted as having superior visuals, what do you think would happen if their maps were as open and detailed and seamless as TW3's?
These things come at a cost. Downgrade TW3's actual world and we'd get the visuals from the original trailers, but who would want that? Would be much shallower.
Dictator93
Member
Some world shots where the materials look good (brick in morning light, GI of some sort coming through from the ambient sun, and fresnel on wood):
icecold1983
Member
the bottom 2 have good materials. the top screen looks bad to me. i reckon the vast majority of the world does not have good materials.
The material/lighting properties exhibited in the first screenshot is what impressed me when I first saw it in pre-release gameplay videos. In a lot of open world games, the dusk/dawn sun bathes the entire scene with an orange tint, regardless of whether the surface of an object/building is facing the sun.
Here, the morning sun acts like giant ass spotlight shining from an angle and only surfaces that are hit with that beam (ie. facing the sun) gets lit appropriately....until the sun rises up high and envelopes the world with light. Driveclub does this too.
And yeah, the fresnel sheen on the wood is a material property that a lot of devs don't bother putting in their game (that's gonna change as PBR workflow gets more common).
This is the best logic I've ever seen. "Two out of three screenshots look good, so my conclusion is that the majority looks bad."
Absolutely impeccable.
icecold1983
Member
if those 3 screens were my only exposure to the game, sure slick.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=167410571&postcount=6913
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=167410943&postcount=6914
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=166730053&postcount=6801
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=166730141&postcount=6802
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=166734296&postcount=6810
just some posts from the pc ss thread. am i wrong that those type of areas are what your going to be seeing 90+% of the time? the materials and lighting/colors all look off/wrong. obv the IQ and composition of the shots is good
some examples of what i consider good lighting/shading/materials
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=167130949&postcount=6890
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=166700303&postcount=6037
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=165978932&postcount=5905
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=166065719&postcount=5923
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=166101055&postcount=5934
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=153196265&postcount=2539
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=152358152&postcount=2253
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=152358245&postcount=2254
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=150292232&postcount=1664
Is he running a mod or something? Shadow clipping everwhere... unlike majority of shots I've seen of the game.
This one isn't too bad, there are material properties that you dont find in a lot of AAA games. There seems to be subsurface scattering on the dude's skin (particularly his lower lip and cheek fold/wrinkle). Not surprising since this feature was clearly evident in early gameplay demos.
Then there's the specular sheen on the barks of trees directly behind him, which adds a bit of material complexity (not all types trees should have this though and Witcher3 doesn't seem to)
The material properties on Geralt's armour is pretty fuckin cool. I'm so glad that PBR has made it easier or more common for metallic surfaces in games to exhibit just a simple specular highlight. You can see here that the sword pommels and his right shoulder armor vaguely reflects the world around it (hint of blue from the sky)
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
Not only that, but the material response to the drab lighting conditions in the first shot is consistent with a PBR implementation. One of the main advantages of PBR is that artists only have to produce one set of maps that will shade appropriately in nearly all conditions, but to many it's just a buzzword that they associate with shininess.
icecold1983
Member
its hard to discern which screens are using mods considering the lighting in witcher. btw the specular on the trees behind that mutant girl look ridiculous. the trees look like plastic.
lordfuzzybutt
Member
I am on another hand amused that there are still people trying to argue with him, one who proved long ago that he doesn't accept other people's argument, doesn't even care to enough to play the game or to have a single post in the OT but still stands his ground here and fires back at people praising the game at the moment anything is posted.
Heh.
Nah they look fine, I've seen trees like that plenty of times. Either way, you can't deny the materials are more complex than in most games, the use of PBR is clearly evident.
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