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[Aaronology]

Blackface precedes both me and her. I didn't decide anything.

Let's sidestep how in the wrong she is or isn't for a moment. I am not sure it's accurate to call this blackface. Her intent clearly was not mockery or any of the other historical reasons white people have dressed up as caricatured people of color, and the level of deception is so extreme here it can't be compared to much else.

I'm a little impressed with the lengths she went to become a black woman, a little disturbed by how far she went covering up her past (something no one should have to do) and actually a little sad that she felt the need to.

Not really angry, though. This is all too bizarre to me for that.


Edit:

It is a white woman pretending to be a black woman. Using tanner and bronzer to darken her skin, trying to style her hair in ethnic black designs such as afros, braids, using brown/muted colored lipstick etc. Trying to deny the existence of her white father and her white heritage. Just because she's not doing it maliciously doesn't remove the fact she's reduced the identity of black women to nothing more than a certain hairstyle and darker skin. It's a caricature and almost costume for her.

Copying black women is not the same as making a caricature of them, Madness. And this woman, crazy as she clearly is, has black siblings, has a black husband, and joined and worked for the NAACP. Had she never been discovered and "outed", she likely would have spent her life on that course. This isn't a defense of her deception; I just think it's a little unfair to claim this was a costume for her. This was her life, albeit one built on lies.

I'm not entirely sure how to feel about any of this, honestly.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

It is a white woman pretending to be a black woman. Using tanner and bronzer to darken her skin, trying to style her hair in ethnic black designs such as afros, braids, using brown/muted colored lipstick etc. Trying to deny the existence of her white father and her white heritage. Just because she's not doing it maliciously doesn't remove the fact she's reduced the identity of black women to nothing more than a certain hairstyle and darker skin. It's a caricature and almost costume for her.

It is a man pretending to be a woman. Using make-up and lipstick to doll up his face, trying to style his hair longer, having surgery to round the face. Trying to deny the existence of his penis and past male life. Just because he's not doing it maliciously doesn't remove the fact he's reduced the identity of a woman to nothing more than a dress and some cleavage. It's a caricature and almost costume for him.

etc.

Like, the argument you're making is a bizarro-world version of the arguments TERF use against transgender people - that you can't ever be a woman without having been born a woman. A huge part of the TERF argument rests on the fact transgender women often take on feminine stereotypes, because it seems to insist being a woman is about having those stereotypes (something TERFs obviously disagree with). It's usually accepted, at least on this site, that TERFs are wrong and reprehensible, so why are we taking the exact same line of logic they use, but on a marginally different subject, and suddenly it's the right thing?

 

[Imperial Bishop]

What the actual fuck?

 

[Chuckie]

I said nothing about biology. Race exists because society has created it, it's stupid to say right now there is no such thing as race because that doesn't reflect the reality of our society.

I was responding to someone who was trying to score some gotcha SJWs points and was clearly trying to claim a color blind argument as in lol since race doesn't exist you can't say she can't be black.

Yeah I know you are not talking about biology, but that is the field the term race comes from and seems to be the field qualified to determine the meaning of the word.
It is a term that has been misused and abused and needs to die because it creates a distinction between people that isn't there.

Stating that there is only one human race does not mean you do not recognize ethnic diversities and the enormous discrimination and racism that runs rampant all around the world. Nor that it is a good idea to lie about your ethnic background.

Edit: Also race as a social construct is derived from the biological construct. People back then did think white, blacks, asians were different subspecies of the human species. Now they know they are not, so it is not stupid to say there is no such thing as different human races. It is the correct thing to say.

 

[Jack Remington]

If she is giving a lecture as a professor of Africana Studies discussing how her ancestors were deprived of rights, if she misrepresents that a photo of a black man is her dad, and if she says she is black on applications for certain positions, people may have issues with her dishonesty. This is different from saying "I was born X, but I identify as Y", but it is lying about the fact that you were born X.

But she is hurting other people. Not physically perhaps, but emotionally and/or indirectly. Haven't you read the response by some of GAFfers here that clearly expounded that fact, in that they feel she tramples all over their identity?

She clearly hurts NAACP by undermining their legitimacy because holy shit, they elected someone acting as a black person--who posted a tweet ridiculing someone else marrying a white person, can you imagine--as one of their goddamn leaders.

She clearly hurts the social movement of POCs by making it look like a joke where everyone is just too stupid not to even notice a white person playing pretend as a black person amongst them.

Again, I don't get how this is so hard to understand.

Alright, I get these sentiments. I still have a lot of sympathy for her at heart. It really looks like she wasn't doing this for some kind of "convenience", but because she genuinely did feel like this was her culture. She got so deep into it that she did things that would be expected of a black woman in her position, like giving lectures. She probably didn't expect to be outed.

 

[Baroquemantic]

A friend was telling me about this earlier, but I figured he was just fucking with me. I still can't believe this is real.

 

[Alienous]

It is a white woman pretending to be a black woman. Using tanner and bronzer to darken her skin, trying to style her hair in ethnic black designs such as afros, braids, using brown/muted colored lipstick etc. Trying to deny the existence of her white father and her white heritage. Just because she's not doing it maliciously doesn't remove the fact she's reduced the identity of black women to nothing more than a certain hairstyle and darker skin. It's a caricature and almost costume for her.

Well she became the leader of a branch of the NAACP, so I don't think you can say that the extent to which she was a 'black woman' was a caricature.

The parts of her appearance that would make her look more like a black woman she changed (hair, skin stone) but blackface? I guess technically, but that isn't my first impression of this.

 

[ivysaur12]

Oh boy, a lot of idiots on twitter trying to compare this to Trans issues and joking that "we should give her a magazine cover". Shut up.

 

[Madness]

etc.

Like, the argument you're making is a bizarro-world version of the arguments TERF use against transgender people - that you can't ever be a woman without having been born a woman. A huge part of the TERF argument rests on the fact transgender women often take on feminine stereotypes, because it seems to insist being a woman is about having those stereotypes (something TERFs obviously disagree with). It's usually accepted, at least on this site, that TERFs are wrong and reprehensible, so why are we taking the exact same line of logic they use, but on a marginally different subject, and suddenly it's the right thing?

What the fuck is this. I am utterly at a loss for words at the amount of people thinking this is a 1:1 comparison with transgender people and gender dysphoria. Fuck.

 

[ivysaur12]

lord.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

What the fuck is this. I am utterly at a loss for words at the amount of people thinking this is a 1:1 comparison with transgender people and gender dysphoria. Fuck.

Then explain it, step by step?

 

[Pristine_Condition]

I suspect if this idea that race is "just what you self-identify as," becomes a thing, California universities and the Ivy League are going to have a helluva lot more black, hispanic, and native american applicants with all sorts of uh...unusual surnames.

 

[Bad_Boy]

i always used to say everybody wants to be black, but nobody wants to be black. that all changes now.

i say she should get a pass. i mean she pulled it off so well, even adopted little black babies. fooled all her peers, etc. i say fuck it.

Spoiler

im black,

and this lady doesnt offend me in the slightest for some odd reason. but i understand why some of you guys are heated.

 

[Fried Food]

They need to fire her ass. Who knows where the NAACP, and the Black community at large, would be if they had an actual black person at the top position. To be honest, browsing this thread has made me kinda legit disgusted just looking at this lady.

 

[Vaporak]

etc.

Like, the argument you're making is a bizarro-world version of the arguments TERF use against transgender people - that you can't ever be a woman without having been born a woman. A huge part of the TERF argument rests on the fact transgender women often take on feminine stereotypes, because it seems to insist being a woman is about having those stereotypes (something TERFs obviously disagree with). It's usually accepted, at least on this site, that TERFs are wrong and reprehensible, so why are we taking the exact same line of logic they use, but on a marginally different subject, and suddenly it's the right thing?

Because very nearly everyone doesn't realize that logic is content independent.

 

[Laughing Banana]

lord.

Which is why I asked, does her position as the NAACP leader bring her financial benefits of some sort? I imagine it does.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Because very nearly everyone doesn't realize that logic is content independent.

Yes, so explain what, specifically, about the content in this scenario, makes these two arguments different? That's exactly what I'm asking. I'm saying that a) the argument is the same, b) the content seems very similar, so intuitively c) the argument should be wrong for both sets of content. If you disagree, you need to explain what is *dissimilar* about the content and why the argument is right in one case and wrong in another. Nobody has done that yet.

 

[Alienous]

It is interesting. In a world, one I agree with, where Caitlyn Jenner can identify as a heterosexual woman who is attracted to females I'm having a hard time lambasting a woman who decided to identify as black, seemingly to feel more comfortable with herself.

I don't know if she could have done it without lying. The reaction would seem to imply otherwise, certainly. And there are, like between men and women, cultural differences between races that she might feel aligned too. I dunno, it's weird. It isn't the same as Transexualism but maybe it is an actual, genuine thing.

I'm inclined to be happy with her being whoever she wants to be.

lord.

But boy she isn't making it easy.

 

[numble]

She also seems to falsify claims of racism:

Spokane police files on Dolezal’s report that she received a hate mail package and other mailing in late February and March were released. Police records say the initial package Dolezal reported receiving did not bear a date stamp or bar code, which Dolezal herself told police when she reported it. Investigators interviewed postal workers, who said it was either very unlikely or impossible that the package could have been processed through the post office, and that the only other alternative was that it had been put there by someone with a key.

Neumaier said he was suspicious of several incidents Dolezal reported in Coeur d’Alene, including her discovery of a swastika on the door of the Human Rights Education Institute when the organization’s security camera was “mysteriously turned off.”

 

[J10]

Doesn't matter whether she intended to mock or not. Blackface is inherently mocking.

Stop comparing transgenderism to blackface. It's idiotic.

 

[cutmeamango]

I suspect if this idea that race is "just what you self-identify as," becomes a thing, California universities and the Ivy League are going to have a helluva lot more black, hispanic, and native american applicants with all sorts of uh...unusual surnames.

Race is self-identified in most censuses.
Quota systems already add "have X grandparents" rules to 'triage' smarties that could try to benefit from this.

 

[Vaporak]

Yes, so explain what, specifically, about the content in this scenario, makes these two arguments different? That's exactly what I'm asking. I'm saying that a) the argument is the same, b) the content seems very similar, so intuitively c) the argument should be wrong for both sets of content. If you disagree, you need to explain what is *dissimilar* about the content and why the argument is right in one case and wrong in another. Nobody has done that yet.

You misunderstand me, I wasn't taking any side. I was just explaining why the phenomena you are observing exists.

 

[Aaronology]

It is interesting. In a world, one I agree with, where Caitlyn Jenner can identify as a heterosexual woman who is attracted to females I'm having a hard time lambasting a woman who decided to identify as black, seemingly to feel more comfortable with herself.

I don't know if she could have done it without lying. The reaction would seem to imply otherwise, certainly. And there are, like between men and women, cultural differences between races that she might feel aligned too. I dunno, it's weird. It isn't the same as Transexualism but maybe it is an actual, genuine thing.

I'm inclined to be happy with her being whoever she wants to be.



But boy she isn't making it easy.

This is pretty much exactly how I feel about this, too.

Both parts.

 

[Madness]

Which is why I asked, does her position as the NAACP leader bring her financial benefits of some sort? I imagine it does.

Of course it does. She's the leader of the local chapter in Spokane. A quick search shows a posting for the position of executive aide in Washington state with a salary of $41,000. Imagine how much the head of a local branch would make. She's very clearly made a career out of this. Not only using her position to get speaking engagements or be interviewed in the press, as well as trying to be an authority on local black issues.

As for those saying hey, she lives as a black woman, that doesn't make her one. Her upbringing, childhood, almost every facet of her being has been as a white woman in the USA. Just because after her parents adopted 4 black siblings, she decided to marry a black man and then pass herself off as Black doesn't change any of that. I also feel unless you're black or a visible minority, you won't understand what it's like to see someone pretend to be someone they're not, it matters how they feel that their culture, identity has been co-opted into a stereotype/caricature. She's free to do anything she wants, we're all free to call her out for it. I find this no different than the people who pretend to be Marines to try and get sympathy. I don't know, I've said my part numerous times in the thread. I feel many of you don't even care about any of this except the fact that someone has said you can't do this. Using all manners of excuses to explain why this should be allowed, trying to draw false equivalence with transgender people or gender dysphoria.

 

[Ruff]

Haha oh wow.


Maybe she just regenerated into River Song there, we can't judge

 

[air jordans for dogs]

This makes my transnationalism even more legitimate and real #JapaneseAndProud

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Of course it does. She's the leader of the local chapter in Spokane. A quick search shows a posting for the position of executive aide in Washington with a salary of $41,000. She's very clearly made a career out of this.

What? This is silly reasoning. She started her life white. Being white, statistically, means you are more likely to end up earning more than if you're black. If she was doing things purely for material gain, odds are she would never have done this in the first place. If you're looking for material gain, you don't try and become a member of one of the most under-priviliged groups in America. Sure, she gets paid by the NAACP - but she also has done work for the NAACP in aiding the black equality movement. Probably more than most people on this site have ever done, with a few exceptions. If she'd never been found out, most people probably would have praised her as having a worthwhile career.

As for those saying hey, she lives as a black woman, that doesn't make her one. Her upbringing, childhood, almost every facet of her being has been as a white woman in the USA. Just because after her parents adopted 4 black siblings, she decided to marry a black man and then pass herself off as Black doesn't change any of that. I also feel unless you're black or a visible minority, you won't understand what it's like to see someone pretend to be someone they're not, it matters how they feel that their culture, identity has been co-opted into a stereotype/caricature. She's free to do anything she wants, we're all free to call her out for it.

His upbringing, childhood, almost every facet of his being has been as a man in the USA. I also feel unless you're a woman, you won't understand what it's like to see someone pretend to be someone they're not, it matters how they feel that their womanhood, identity has been co-opted into a stereotype/caricature. He's free to do anything he wants, we're all free to call him out for it.

Again, the lines of logic are exactly the same, and you won't explain why the content makes them different.

I feel many of you don't even care about any of this except the fact that someone has said you can't do this.

I care because there is a reasonable chance that there is a woman here simply trying to live her life as the person she feels most comfortable as, and other people are trying to take an identity she may genuinely believe in away from her.

Using all manners of excuses to explain why this should be allowed, trying to draw false equivalence with transgender people or gender dysphoria.

Then explain the false equivalence, because nobody has yet.

 

[PartTimeWarrior]

But does she put sugar in her grits

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Race is self-identified in most censuses.
Quota systems already add "have X grandparents" rules to 'triage' smarties that could try to benefit from this.

So a woman can switch her racial identity sometime in her late 20s, but grandparents cant? Sounds ageist.

 

[Spinluck]

I will never look at #teamlightskin the same again.

How am I supposed to trust y'all?

 

[boiled goose]

Doesn't matter whether she intended to mock or not. Blackface is inherently mocking.

Stop comparing transgenderism to blackface. It's idiotic.

I agree this has nothing to do with transgenderism


Completely different.

Also blackface is generally wrong.

This is not blackface.

This is passing.

If we call two different things the same then worDS lose meaning.

 

[J10]

Then explain the false equivalence, because nobody has yet.

This woman chose to pretend to be black.

 

[Kinyou]

She also seems to falsify claims of racism:

I wonder if she wanted the attention or if she thought this would legitimize her "blackness"

 

[Rentahamster]

Wow.

They always told me that race is a social construct.

:/

Is this real life? lol...

 

[Deleted member 231381]

This woman chose to pretend to be black.

This man chose to pretend to be female.

Okay, I still need a better explanation here.

 

[Stereogatari]

It's funny how a white woman can pass as black. Shows how dumb racism is when the lines are blurred like that.

This woman chose to pretend to be black.

But if she feels she's black then what can we do? She's a trans-racial?

 

[Aselith]

But does she put sugar in her grits

Which one is the good one?

 

[soundscream]

But does she put sugar in her grits

Only black imposters or members of the eternal struggle would do something so vile.

 

[Cap'n Cook]

 

[soundscream]

Which one is the good one?

You don't put sugar on grits. His ancestors are ashamed of him.

 

[J10]

Okay, I still need a better explanation here.

Ask a person who has transitioned if they're pretending or if they ARE.

 

[Prax]

I think the main problem is her dishonesty and hypocrisy, using these matters as a way to boost her own created self-esteem of being a "good person" who "fights for rights/values".

A bit like republicans who fight for "family values/anti-gay" stuff and then are found being caught with pants down. But this is the reverse version. lol

If she were being honest and just "really really wanted" to indulge in her weeb fantasies of being a different race/culture/background, then it wouldn't seem so insidious. It would be seen as the kinda dumb but live-and-let-live thing being a weeabo is.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Okay, I still need a better explanation here.

But if she feels she's black then what can we do? She's a trans-racial?

But she deliberately deceive others in a way that, although perhaps not directly, may hurt them?

Transgender people don't do that, do they?

Come on, how can you see stuff like her previous tweet about mocking black people marrying white people and can honestly say that what she's doing here is good?

 

[Aselith]

You don't put sugar on grits. His ancestors are ashamed of him.

Yep, yep, yep. I was totally gonna say that shit. As a black man, I am very offended by him putting sugar on grits. Very, highly offended. >.> <.< >.>

Spoiler

Nuh no I'm not white. YOU ARE

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Ask a person who has transitioned if they're pretending or if they ARE.

Ask her if she's pretending or if she IS. This is what I'm saying - she hasn't done this for any other purpose than to be this specific person. Being black doesn't get her any advantages - if anything, the opposite. As far as anyone call tell from reporting so far, the only reason she's being black is so she can be black because that's who she feels she is.

 

[Madness]

Okay, I still need a better explanation here.

You don't need jackshit. Stop the devil's advocate crap. Pretending to be black is not the same as transgender/gender dysphoria. This is a white woman lying to pretend to be a black woman. Falsely claiming on census forms she's white/black/native American, giving bullshit responses to reporters how "were all from the African continent", lying and saying a black man is her father and her real white father is her stepfather, lying about how she spent time in South Africa, and her numerous hate crime charges have inconsistencies like how she was the only one who discovered a swastika but magically at the precise time the cameras were down. Getting on a soapbox and talking down to black men etc.

Here she is telling black people and people of colour how to watch 12 years a slave in theaters in 'whiteopia' , and oh how tough it is for her because she's clearly a black woman right.

 

[J10]

Ask her if she's pretending or if she IS. This is what I'm saying - she hasn't done this for any other purpose than to be this specific person. Being black doesn't get her any advantages - if anything, the opposite. As far as anyone call tell from reporting so far, the only reason she's being black is so she can be black because that's who she feels she is.

I don't have to ask her. I've seen her two white parents.

 

[Juicy Bob]

Just... why?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

But she deliberately deceive others in a way that, although perhaps not directly, may hurt them?

Transgender people don't do that, do they?

They used to. If you were unfortunate enough to have been transgender sixty years ago, it would have been a de facto death sentence - nobody in society would accept you for even a minute. I wouldn't be surprised at all if many transgender people in different era simply abandoned their lives, fled to a different place where nobody knew them from before, and "pretended" to be a woman - that is, lived their life as a woman without ever telling anyone other people once considered them a man.

The only reason that (some) transgender don't feel they have to lie is because (some small parts of society) are now tolerant towards them, as a result of fantastic social progress driven, in part, by at least some people fifty or sixty years ago who probably did lie. This thread is making pretty clear there is no tolerance towards this lady.

 

[cutmeamango]

Here she is telling black people and people of colour how to watch 12 years a slave in theaters in 'whiteopia' , and oh how tough it is for her because she's clearly a black woman right.

It's not any different from arguments white people people make about other white people except that she thinks/pretends she's black.