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[iBlue]

PM is fun to play but streaming it its like giving nintendo the middle finger.

 

[xaszatm]

Dark Pit was never highly requested. And Nintendo is a global company, so this is a terrible excuse. Smash sells far better in America than it does in Japan.



What "shit" did I post? The personal attacks are getting really old.

News Report: Japanese Developer in Japanese Company living in Japan is biased towards the Japanese.

And how the hell is it a terrible excuse? They were making it already. I still cannot believe how a single "slot" is causing so much distress. It's a "slot". Nothing would have taken it. Out of all the complaints here, why is this one even discussed. You have actual good reasons not to like this game.

 

[Boss Doggie]

PM's playerbase kind of died after Nintendo started muscling it out of tournaments I think. It isn't played at the biweekly tourneys in my town anymore.

Isn't it having EVO presence, even if it's a side tourney?

 

[Professor Beef]

Isn't it having EVO presence, even if it's a side tourney?

Side tournaments don't get exposure.

 

[Rentahamster]

Eh, 64 is pretty much Pikachu the game plus some stragglers. I'd say something about Melee, but then you'd get posters refuting me with "but these characters are viable too!" as they watch the same characters yet again being used in a tourney.

I'm not sure you understand my point. The previous poster claimed that you can't balance for only 1v1 with tournament rules since it would make the balance of the other modes bad. That's somewhat true to the extent that bigger hitting, slower, heavier characters have an easier time landing their moves when other people are distracted. However, it's not completely true. You CAN have both. Balancing for 1v1 doesn't not automatically invalidate other modes. This isn't a zero sum game. They are not mutually exclusive. You CAN balance the game primarily for 1v1, yet make it so that it's also balanced enough for other modes like FFA.

Besides, mostly casuals will be playing FFA with items on anyway, and in that situation, there is enough randomness and chaos to make the whole balancing issue moot anyway.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Side tournaments don't get exposure.

I always thought they get decent numbers though.

I'm not sure you understand my point. The previous poster claimed that you can't balance for only 1v1 with tournament rules since it would make the balance of the other modes bad. That's somewhat true to the extent that bigger hitting, slower, heavier characters have an easier time landing their moves when other people are distracted. However, it's not completely true. You CAN have both. Balancing for 1v1 doesn't not automatically invalidate other modes. This isn't a zero sum game. They are not mutually exclusive. You CAN balance the game primarily for 1v1, yet make it so that it's also balanced enough for other modes like FFA.

Besides, mostly casuals will be playing FFA with items on anyway, and in that situation, there is enough randomness and chaos to make the whole balancing issue moot anyway.

True enough I guess. Still, Smash is the game that laments on big, slow characters anyway.

 

[Rentahamster]

True enough I guess. Still, Smash is the game that laments on big, slow characters anyway.

The sad thing is it doesn't have to. Many other fighting games have reconciled fast/weak vs slow/strong archetypes just fine. Project M did a good job in buffing some slow characters up enough to be viable. There can always be improvements, and you don't want slow characters to mainly rely on gimmicks or anything, but it's doable.

The fact that Sakurai can't seem to manage this is due in part to his shortsighted and naive approach to balancing, testing, and game design.

 

[Boss Doggie]

to be fair it's something fighting games suffer from, I think the only series that got it made are GG, some SNK games, and maybe some SF

With that said PM kinda removed what made big, slow characters less big, slow though. Though at least that's what I played in 2.0 lol

 

[Brainfreeze]

What's wrong with it? Why are the accusations of favoritism "unfounded"? Sakurai's logic is fundamentally flawed. He mentioned Star Fox, yet it's the only franchise to LOSE content in the transition from Brawl to Smash 4. So no, I wouldn't accuse him of having a Star Fox bias if he suddenly decided to direct a new Star Fox game. It's all 20/20 hindsight. But if he directed a Star Fox game and then added Slippy Toad and James McCloud to the Smash roster, then yes, I'd probably say something. Sakurai constantly deflects and/or blames other people (the fans, the competitive scene, etc.) without ever taking the criticisms into consideration. Stubbornness is not a flattering characteristic.

I...I don't understand how it's "bias" for a game developer to put what he wants in a game he develops. Jesus Christ you sound entitled, and that's why people jump on you.

Especially when your solution is basically "If I was the developer, here's the characters I would put in. But it's not bias when I do it." Which is just...stupid.

Man, I'm going to regret even bringing this debate up, but don't act like the fact that you get shit all the time is because everyone else is crazy.

 

[Acerac]

to be fair it's something fighting games suffer from, I think the only series that got it made are GG, some SNK games, and maybe some SF

With that said PM kinda removed what made big, slow characters less big, slow though. Though at least that's what I played in 2.0 lol

I thought they doubled down on Bowser being big and made him a relative giant? It's been ages since I've played, so I could be mistaken.

 

[FZZ]

Masahiro Sakurai: The Act of Balancing Leaks

 

[Oblivion]

At the end of the day, I’m aiming for intermediately-skilled players to be able to properly enjoy the game. Fundamentally, my goal with Smash has been to create an “enjoyable party game”. If you want to enjoy thrilling tactical gameplay, you might be better suited for other 2D fighting games.

Recently, there was a tournament featuring the top Japanese and American players. In 1v1s, the natural tendency is to use low risk moves to gradually deal damage to the opponent. Smash attacks rarely came out, and the matches were prone to becoming long, drawn out affairs. When considering the variety of ways Smash can be played I think this is a waste, but the winner was certainly decided by skill.

Just as surely, people who play the game this way enjoy it from the bottom of their hearts, and make many friends playing this way. Because the game accommodates a wide variety of playstyles, it’s only natural that it captivates so many people in a variety of ways.

Sakurai can be so infuriating when he speaks about such things.

You would think he would be aware that he made a game at some point in the past where the issues that he complains about were not a factor.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

PM is fun to play but streaming it its like giving nintendo the middle finger.

Or giving them a hug because it shows the love and passion of the fanbase to create something as awesome as PM. A lot of time and effort is put into that mod.

 

[Not]

Sakurai can be so infuriating when he speaks about such things.

You would think he would be aware that he made a game at some point in the past where the issues that he complains about were not a factor.

The thing is, he made a conscious effort in Brawl to make it slower and less favoring of skill. He's not going to make a faster game JUST to satisfy the tournament players he references, even if that means they can only use "safe" slow attacks.

 

[Anura]

I...I don't understand how it's "bias" for a game developer to put what he wants in a game he develops. Jesus Christ you sound entitled, and that's why people jump on you.

Especially when your solution is basically "If I was the developer, here's the characters I would put in. But it's not bias when I do it." Which is just...stupid.

Man, I'm going to regret even bringing this debate up, but don't act like the fact that you get shit all the time is because everyone else is crazy.

Sakurai bias has always been salty people being salty. It's not a thing and has never been. I do however, love to joke about it when I talk about MK, lol.

 

[chaosblade]

It died off on its own at our locals. People who want Melee gameplay... play Melee, and people who want Sm4sh gameplay, play Sm4sh. Before, it was just Melee or Brawl or PM, so obviously it was Melee and PM, but now we've phased out PM for Sm4sh (also easier for us to have the TVs for the latter).

Seems to vary depending on where you live. PM doesn't seem very popular on the coasts but attracts a bigger crowd elsewhere. It gets equal to slightly larger turnouts than Melee at the local monthly here.

I always thought they get decent numbers though,

Not really, PM was a side tournament at Evo last year and only got around 64 entrants. It will probably do a lot more this year just because the more dedicated PM community is rallying in order to keep it alive in spite of attempts to silence it. Especially after the mess with TBH5.