Xbox One adds Xbox 360 backwards compatibility

dcx4610 said:
The 360 used a PowerPC based CPU and the XB1 uses x86. They are two different software languages.

Native would mean that you pop the disc in and the XB1 would understand and read the game. Software BC would mean that they wrote an emulator in x86 in order to read and play 360 games. I don't think the system is powerful enough to do that.

A recompile would mean they would go in and literally recode the game in x86 format. They would have to do this game by game and it wouldn't be easy or cheap but that seems to be what they are doing. The benefit to this would be they would all be Windows 10 compatible as well.
Click to expand...

Yeah, from an engineering standpoint, this shit is pretty damn fascinating
 
The BC program is only open to Preview Members until the Holiday. MS is expecting around a hundred games for the full launch. This list only includes ones available today, the list will expand as we head into the fall.

For those of you wanting confirmation, three games were announced as pack-ins that will be BC. Fallout 3 is coming with Fallout 4.

RS Vegas and RS Vegas 2 coming with RS Siege.

The list will expand so stop complaining. Most of you aren't in the program now anyway.
 
Since most of the compatible games are Rare games, and that I never owned a X360, by now Ill just wait to get the colection.

But I hope they add lots of games soon, as the Gears trilogy. I intend to get some!
 
brokenbeans said:
You can't expect every game to be available right away.
Click to expand...

Yes we can! Rabble rabble rabble!

ia8bgI3.jpg
 
It must be recompiling for x86 (aka ports). Everything I know says emulating PowerPC on x86 just won't be fast enough.

The GPUs are similar enough, and of course both use Windows and DirectX.

Still, each game will have to be retouched a little.
 
dcx4610 said:
The 360 used a PowerPC based CPU and the XB1 uses x86. They are two different software languages.

Native would mean that you pop the disc in and the XB1 would understand and read the game. Software BC would mean that they wrote an emulator in x86 in order to read and play 360 games. I don't think the system is powerful enough to do that.

A recompile would mean they would go in and literally recode the game in x86 format. They would have to do this game by game and it wouldn't be easy or cheap but that seems to be what they are doing. The benefit to this would be they would all be Windows 10 compatible as well.
Click to expand...
Edit: this seems likely.
 
DeepEnigma said:
I am going with this.

The One is more than capable to emulating the 360 in software. Especially since it is already coded close to the metal being a console (PC's still have yet to, and once DX12 comes to PC's this will make emulators achieve their goals when upgraded as well).

Remember, the 360 was 512MB of ram, with a 10 year old GPU set.
Click to expand...

They not only have very different architectures but due to quirks like the 360 having a higher clock speed emulating 360 games the old fashioned way on XB1 can't work. It could be pure software emulation with some sort of innovative new trick MS came up with, but I doubt it. As those games are either really old or XBLA based which had a higher level SDK, I suspect it may be a more complex automated version of this:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...d-to-pc-but-the-original-dev-doesnt-mind-much
 
I assume most devs will say yes just because they could turn around and sell them on the xbox one store

I expect some to be annoying and say no, just because of resell factor... but this move should start pushing industry towards less remasters and more new content
 
Looking back at the XBox to X360 BC track record I would not get too excited.

Could just be another flashy headline then everything fades to black not long after.
 
dcx4610 said:
The 360 used a PowerPC based CPU and the XB1 uses x86. They are two different software languages.

Native would mean that you pop the disc in and the XB1 would understand and read the game. Software BC would mean that they wrote an emulator in x86 in order to read and play 360 games. I don't think the system is powerful enough to do that.

A recompile would mean they would go in and literally recode the game in x86 format. They would have to do this game by game and it wouldn't be easy or cheap but that seems to be what they are doing. The benefit to this would be they would all be Windows 10 compatible as well.
Click to expand...

So how would a recompile fit into their announcement that there would be not extra effort for developers/publishers to get their games onto that list except just giving their OK?
 
Heh. I've been meaning to replay some 360 games (Gears 3). Soon as that hits XBone I'm buying it. Great move by MS.
 
This has to be what that update we got last week that said in the notes "laying the framework for features announced next week"..
 
Hexa said:
They not only have very different architectures but due to quirks like the 360 having a higher clock speed emulating 360 games the old fashioned way on XB1 can't work. It could be pure software emulation, but I doubt it. As those games are either really old or XBLA based which had a higher level SDK, I suspect it may be a more complex version of this:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...d-to-pc-but-the-original-dev-doesnt-mind-much
Click to expand...

Possibly, but the "flick of the switch" comment that was made by MSFT leads me to think it's software based built by MSFT.

PC's have software CPU clocks and "under/overclocks" built in their emulators as well.

I am just saying that the narrative that the One is not 'powerful enough' to software emulate that some are saying when it has 16x the ram and a 8-10 year newer GPU architecture (FLOPS) (and better tools) is a little disingenuous.
 
i can't believe people think this list is set in stone. It'll take time to get more games on it. I fully don't expect it to be 100% BC compatible woth all 360 games. As long as the major releases are Ok and not half assed BC like the 360 to xbox games, I can live with that. Would be fun to play Kameo, Perfect Dark, Enchanted Arms on the Xbox One
 
heyf00L said:
It must be recompiling for x86 (aka ports). Everything I know says emulating PowerPC on x86 just won't be fast enough.

The GPUs are similar enough, and of course both use Windows and DirectX.

Still, each game will have to be retouched a little.
Click to expand...

There is not way developers are going to spend any of their time rebuilding their games, or giving their source code to Microsoft, or Microsoft spending their time micro-tweaking each game to run on a recompiled build. Besides, it can't be as simple as just retargeting the application.

My bet is a Xbox 360 virtual machine, i.e., software emulation
 
Noobcraft said:
How would it recompile your disc based games on the fly? It's not download only. It has to be emulation.
Click to expand...
Yes, it is. They said in the presentation that even if you're using a disc for the license, you have to download the game.

The XB1 can't run the original code natively.
 
Noobcraft said:
Edit: Nevermind lol. Disc based DRM.
Click to expand...
It's not like they were going to give away free games. The download is comparable to installing disc-based games to the hard drive for normal PS4/XB1 titles, except that the installed data isn't the same as what's on the disc and thus needs to be downloaded from a server. The license still resides on the disc.
 
Kadin said:
Is this directed at anyone in particular or are you just saying the feature won't work?
Click to expand...

He means in the style of how people like ioriyagami, dcx4610, & Hexa have put it:

dcx4610 said:
The 360 used a PowerPC based CPU and the XB1 uses x86. They are two different software languages.

Native would mean that you pop the disc in and the XB1 would understand and read the game. Software BC would mean that they wrote an emulator in x86 in order to read and play 360 games. I don't think the system is powerful enough to do that.

A recompile would mean they would go in and literally recode the game in x86 format. They would have to do this game by game and it wouldn't be easy or cheap but that seems to be what they are doing. The benefit to this would be they would all be Windows 10 compatible as well.
Click to expand...

Hexa said:
They not only have very different architectures but due to quirks like the 360 having a higher clock speed emulating 360 games the old fashioned way on XB1 can't work. It could be pure software emulation with some sort of innovative new trick MS came up with, but I doubt it. As those games are either really old or XBLA based which had a higher level SDK, I suspect it may be a more complex automated version of this:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...d-to-pc-but-the-original-dev-doesnt-mind-much
Click to expand...

ioriyagami said:
There is no way developers are going to spend any of their time rebuilding their games, or giving their source code to Microsoft, or Microsoft spending their time micro-tweaking each game to run on a recompiled build. Besides, it can't be as simple as just retargeting the application.

My bet is a Xbox 360 virtual machine, i.e., software emulation
Click to expand...

Expectations should be kept in check. Plus not every publisher will have all games on board, especially licensed games or games in which publishers no longer exist.
 
ioriyagami said:
There is not way developers are going to spend any of their time rebuilding their games, or giving their source code to Microsoft, or Microsoft spending their time micro-tweaking each game to run on a recompiled build. Besides, it can't be as simple as just retargeting the application.
Click to expand...

And if it's anything like non game applications, each company is going to have a different build setup to build their game.
 
erale said:
So how would a recompile fit into their announcement that there would be not extra effort for developers/publishers to get their games onto that list except just giving their OK?
Click to expand...

Could be MS is planning on handling the recompiling in-house to sweeten the deal for whoever has to sign off on a game. Rare needs something to do, after all. That they're planning on launching with a relatively small selection of 100 or so games by the end of the year suggests that it's not quite as simple as dumping a bunch of 360 ISOs in the XB1 store.
 
I find it rather interesting people here can't seem to figure out how the Bone can emulate X360 games. I guess MS is just really good at what they do?
 
DeepEnigma said:
Possibly, but the "flick of the switch" comment that was made by MSFT leads me to think it's software based built by MSFT.

PC's have software CPU clocks and "under/overclocks" built in their emulators as well.
Click to expand...

What I'm guessing is still 'flick of the switch' MS software. I'm guessing its essentially an automatic recompile from the binary based on the SDK similar to how that guy ported the XBLA game to PC (but automated). This would work better if there's less stuff coded "to the metal" so to speak, which fits in with that game list as the earlier SDK and XBLA SDK were more like that.

I'm not sure what you mean by the second comment. There's no reasonable way to emulate twice the clock speed and you can't overclock the XB1 to 3.2GHz so...
 
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