Yeah I agree here too. This is not a good time to buy unless you HAVE to.
AMD Radeon Fury X Series | HBM, Small Form Factor And Water Cooling | June 16th
- Thread starter wachie
- Start date
Yeah I agree here too. This is not a good time to buy unless you HAVE to.
dgrdsv
Member
yeah I think this is an awkward time to upgrade considering the nm shrinks and overall huge performance gains with it. Found a 270 for $90 on Reddit to crossfire with, course now I need a new PSUstill cheaper than a new GPU and its only a stopgap measure until next year. Can't wait for HBM2.
There was no huge performance gains in the beginning of 28nm and there won't be any in 16/14nm either. It's just not how it works anymore. The cost of a new production process is so high that all you get for the same price is the power savings but not the higher density.
Good points. I'm a big AMD supporter and defender but only when they give me better results than the competition
I need a card mainly for VR (1080p@90FPS) and HDTV (1080p@60FPS) gaming.
nVidia pluses:
-don't care about SLI (my 2017 GPU will be dual GPU for VR, after the die shrink to 14nm)
-don't care about shadowplay. +0
-HDMI 2.0 but I don't need it at all. +0
-Physx +1
-can be used as blunt weapon in case of home invasion: +0.1
-Has More VRAM +??? (question is if 4GB of HBM is always better than 6GB of GDDR5 )
AMD pluses:
-Quieter +1
-Can be overclocked more +1
-Much Smaller +1
So, 3-1 for AMD so far.
If the 980ti has better performance at 1080p, +1 to nVidia. That would bring the score to 3-2. AMD stil wins..
TressFX cancels hairworks, both brands have similar VR optimizations, though AMD seems to have the edge there but both should be fine for the first 12-18 months of VR.
The size and noise both very heavily favor AMD, and they are very important. Especially the noise.
So I'm leaning AMD right now. Dat quiet watercooling and HTPC-friendly size are very legitimate, as the neogaf parlance goes.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
Honestly, I'd give another plus to Nvidia for drivers. Nvidia has definitely better driver support and quality than AMD does. So it's basically neck and neck. Plus then, if you'd like, is down to G-sync vs Freesync (Pricier, works better and better range vs cheaper, works well, but more limited range than G-sync) monitors.
It does when you run out of memory with only 3GB @ 1440p.
IMACOMPUTA
Member
I don't find nVidia drivers to be better than AMD drivers. Maybe marginally, but that'd be worth 0.1 point only. Not a whole point. Certainly not!
Far as free/G sync goes, I'm only going to be playing VR games (no sync in VR) and games that require a console controller, and which I will therefore play on my HDTV, which does not support sync either.
So they are both useless to me. I just can't think of a single game that would play better on kb/mouse + 27" monitor that I'm interested in. FPS/RTS come to mind but I rarely play either.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
Well the high refresh rates of those monitors allow the game to run well above 60FPS (or noticeably anyways), which in turn creates smoother game play, and with bigger screens comes bigger resolutions too, making it look better in the process. Even if it's not an FPS or RTS, but lots of other games would benefit too. Plus, IPS's color gamut is pretty sweet. Also, having a history of both AMD and Nvidia, Nvidia's drivers have been much nicer to me.
michaelius
Banned
Good points. I'm a big AMD supporter and defender but only when they give me better results than the competition
-Can be overclocked more +1
How do you know that before seeing even single review ?
Maxwell cards easily reach 17-20% overclock, something like Gigabyte G1 can run 25+ % higher than reference nvidia card.
At the same time GCN cards hardly ever exceed 1200Mhz clock so you are looking at 10-15% which is unlikely to change on even bigger die.
Not all of them. Dat Silicon Lottery breh.
Not sure how he knows the AMDs are more quiet. The 980ti also comes with liquid cooling versions.
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
So any consensus on the 4GB? How long until it becomes an issue? I'm still a good month or so from upgrading my 780. Was all set on the Ti but the Fury X looks great.
Sir Abacus
Member
Hah, I don't really care too much. I mean, in the last 6 months I've probably only played one game where I wanted better textures, which was GTAV, but I only played it for about a week, and I'll probably never touch it again. Otherwise it's Dirty Bomb, EUIV, Tribes, Warsow, QuakeLive, Ratz: Instagib, that sort of thing.
We're gonna have to wait for reviews to see how 4GB plays out with HBM.
Sir Abacus
Member
G1s are binned man. 1291 boost stock. That's already 20% over reference off the bat.
digitalrelic
Banned
yeah I think this is an awkward time to upgrade considering the nm shrinks and overall huge performance gains with it. Found a 270 for $90 on Reddit to crossfire with, course now I need a new PSU
I've been a PC gamer for almost 20 years, and seriously, all you ever hear is "this is an awkward/bad time to upgrade because xxxx is right around the corner". I've been hearing this for the entirely of my PC gaming hobby.
I mean, I've lost count of the amount of times I've heard over the last 9 months to prospective buyers "Wait for the 980Ti". Literally weeks after it's finally released and now I keep hearing "Wait for Pascal"... Insanity! It's all kind of hilarious to watch, actually.
ScepticMatt
Member
Currently not an issue in the very most cases. Games may use 4/6 GB, but that doesn't meant they require it (i.e. caching)
What is shown in software tools like Afterburner also isn't equivalent to what amount of space it uses in hardware (e.g. after compression)
Console ports are limited to 5.5 GB ish for RAM+VRAM, so I think that running current-console ports in 1080p should be fine for the next few years.
Obviously, gaming in 2160p+ with high levels of multi/super-sampling, or multi-monitor gaming uses more VRAM, but to be honest, neither card can run high-demanding games smoothly like that.
Well unless you plan to use SLI/Crossfire, where 4GB might be a bad idea. But I advise against either right now. Not all games scale, and AFR introduces extra lag and/or poor frame times.
Techreport said during their podcast that they will try to find VRAM overrun situations, and bench frame times to see if there is any hitching not captured by average fps values.
Right there with you. This seems like a great time to upgrade, if you ask me. We have two new products that are very compelling (980Ti and Fury X) and plenty of used offerings that are also very good for people who don't need the newest tech.
For those of us like myself who want to continue to run at 1080p but also want to be able to use Ultra (or near Ultra settings) at high framerates it seems like either of these cards will work pretty well.
General Lee
Member
Waiting is usually pointless, unless there's a new card/gen coming very soon. Otherwise you should just get one when you actually need it.
There's no guarantees as to when we'll see 16 nm GPUs. There's a good chance it'll take a long time before we see a big chip, and based on what's being said about future nodes transistor cost won't be lower, so if you want more, you'll have to pay more. Having better density and power consumption will let Nvidia/AMD create faster chips, but I wouldn't be surprised if they came with a higher price tag too. Most likely both sides won't be eager to make a 600 mm^2 chip first thing.
There's no guarantees as to when we'll see 16 nm GPUs. There's a good chance it'll take a long time before we see a big chip, and based on what's being said about future nodes transistor cost won't be lower, so if you want more, you'll have to pay more. Having better density and power consumption will let Nvidia/AMD create faster chips, but I wouldn't be surprised if they came with a higher price tag too. Most likely both sides won't be eager to make a 600 mm^2 chip first thing.
Evgas is $770 or so. Have no doubt at the $650 to $699 battle the AMD solution will be quieter.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Yeah agree, Pascal wont arrive until a good way into next year. If you need to upgrade now, now is a good time as when Arctic Islands/Pascal does eventually release, you'll have a nice Fury X/980 Ti to trade in for a healthy discount.
Irobot82
Member
PCPer retested the 290 with modified 15.15 drivers to see if any shenanigans were going on. Results is GTAV changes some but everything else pretty much stayed the same. That makes sense since GTAV is new and AMD probably put some driver improvements in there. So the 390x/390's does appear to contain more improvements then merely clock speed. Possibly process node refinements. I'd like to see tessellation and color fill testing done to see if they contain any Tonga juice in them.
General Lee
Member
The new driver supposedly increases tessellation performance quite a bit. Not sure how much of a real world difference it makes, but it's certainly surprising if they've managed to do it with just driver improvements.
http://www.legitreviews.com/12k-gaming-with-one-amd-radeon-r9-fury-x-graphics-card_166585
3x4k monitors in DiRT Rally @ 60fps.
While the FuryX is shaping up to be a decent performer for the traditional desktop gamer and possibly people looking forward to VR, the week after the reveal and up to the official reviews has turned terribly ugly. A big misstep from AMD for not having reviews ready straight after their reveal. If they were going to limit reviewers (which I agree with not giving one to KitGuru after that deplorable video), leaving this time gap is a sorry state.
I mouthed off earlier (sorry!) about the lack of DVI, while workable for the majority of people with converters. People who need Dual Link DVI, which are part of the overclocking Korean IPS crowd, are short on luck. And now lack of HDMI 2.0 is a real issue for those who have or want 4k TVs. 980Ti is a great alternative and a no brainer here. Another misstep from AMD, speak with your wallets.
AMD had tremendous momentum on the FuryX, eclipsing whatever the 300 series evoked in people, but it's a mess now. AMD still needs a lot of work on their PR and Marketing efforts.
3x4k monitors in DiRT Rally @ 60fps.
While the FuryX is shaping up to be a decent performer for the traditional desktop gamer and possibly people looking forward to VR, the week after the reveal and up to the official reviews has turned terribly ugly. A big misstep from AMD for not having reviews ready straight after their reveal. If they were going to limit reviewers (which I agree with not giving one to KitGuru after that deplorable video), leaving this time gap is a sorry state.
I mouthed off earlier (sorry!) about the lack of DVI, while workable for the majority of people with converters. People who need Dual Link DVI, which are part of the overclocking Korean IPS crowd, are short on luck. And now lack of HDMI 2.0 is a real issue for those who have or want 4k TVs. 980Ti is a great alternative and a no brainer here. Another misstep from AMD, speak with your wallets.
AMD had tremendous momentum on the FuryX, eclipsing whatever the 300 series evoked in people, but it's a mess now. AMD still needs a lot of work on their PR and Marketing efforts.
Next year will be a bad time to upgrade because the 16nm and HBM2 are not mature.
You need to give them one more generation on the same process.
Journey
Banned
Then you'll want to wait for the next generation GPU that's just around the corner and the process is never ending lol
Twilight Princess
Member
I need a new 980ti for gpgpu, hoping for a price drop when fury x launches.
And I think nvidia is rushing to go 14nm, didn't the green team originally aim for 20nm? We might see some problems with the first 14nm fab cards as a result.
And I think nvidia is rushing to go 14nm, didn't the green team originally aim for 20nm? We might see some problems with the first 14nm fab cards as a result.
Tallshortman
Member
Nvidia will not undercut AMD any time soon, they usually only drop price if it's significantly higher than AMD like when 7970 and 290X came out. If it's pretty much on par I wouldn't expect a drop. The Titan X will be massively overpriced as always though.
I don't recall anybody saying wait for 980 Ti.
RenegadeXV8
Banned
A bunch of sites received their review samples today. NDA is lifted June 23 8PM EST.
digitalrelic
Banned
No disrespect intended, but you weren't paying attention then. That response was the PC gaming crowds official motto for the past 3-4 months (minus the blip created by the Titan X).
CreepingFear
Member
Sometimes it makes sense to wait. I want to build a new rig and turn this current rig into my secondary computer. I could buy Haswell now, but with rumors of Skylake coming out in August or September, I choose to wait. I'm aware that this could get delayed or that Skylake might be a very small 10 percent improvement over Haswell. But I know myself. If I buy now and the newer thing comes out in just a few months, I'll feel like shit. This is why I've pretty much upgraded my GPU like every year with the exception of when I went to 780 Ti, I've waited for the 980 Ti.
A standard GTX660(not even Ti version) matched a 580.
Only for the 1st generarion of 16nm, it's a first date
The inevitable refresh on same node one year later will likely be more mature and have better yields. Likely because 40nm planar -> 28nm planar is relatively straightforward.
28nm Planar -> 16nm FinFET and GDDR5 -> HBM2 will be a new challenge for them.
Insane Metal
Gold Member
DAYUM. What a sexy beast.
Unknown Soldier
Member
The only "waiting" I heard about were the people saying wait for the cut-down Titan X. And that was because of what Nvidia did with OG Titan -> 780 Ti.
You can literally always say something similar to this. When the cards you're talking about come out someone will be saying, "if you can just wait 6 mos to a year the next cards will be so much better." If you want a new video card buy a new video card.
A few years ago yeah, but now it's taking a lot longer each step and big upgrades are coming (HBM1, HBM2) which people should think about compared to all the refreshes and minor improvements we've seen on CPU/GPU recently compared to how things were advancing.
Because he used his brain, the AMD card has 1 nidec(makers of the infamous Gentle Typhoons) fan on it while the GTX 980 Ti liquid cooled has a blower fan and a 120mm fan on it.
Self_Destructive
Member
I'm very interested in seeing how each company handles VR and the different technologies that come from it when VR finally hits the consumers.
I'm kinda disappointed in AMD about the HDMI port not being 2.0 compatible, but I understand it might not affect a very big group of people, so hopefully they get that sorted out at some point by the release of their next cards.
I'm also quite excited to see in the coming months how 4GB of VRAM affects their performance in more demanding upcoming games in the future. Another thing I love is just how sexy the card looks. I love the short PCB and an operating temp of 50'c under load with that watercooler is very nice.
I'm kinda disappointed in AMD about the HDMI port not being 2.0 compatible, but I understand it might not affect a very big group of people, so hopefully they get that sorted out at some point by the release of their next cards.
I'm also quite excited to see in the coming months how 4GB of VRAM affects their performance in more demanding upcoming games in the future. Another thing I love is just how sexy the card looks. I love the short PCB and an operating temp of 50'c under load with that watercooler is very nice.
Unless the 2 fans on the 980Ti hybrid are shit, generally, 2 fans will cool better than 1, and thus, they should be running at lower rpms => quieter. Did I use my brain...
Still, we need to wait for the reviews before making any blatant statements as facts.
im going for a 970 i guess. thanks for your input. i just hope 970 is capable of 1440p
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Actually considering the design of the Fury X it's not that out of place. ;P
WowZipZipBoomBoomWow
Banned
Plenty of people said this when the Titan X was revealed, before the 980 Ti was revealed, because everyone knew the 980 Ti was coming and would basically be a Titan X.
The only TVs I've seen with DP are the NEC commercial LCDs, and those are quasi-monitors and not TVs.
