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[2 Slice Toaster]

2 Millions is enough, to finish the story.
It has always been like that.

In your mind, what kind of Shenmue game does 2 million dollars produce? How much different is it from the previous games?

In my mind, I cannot conceive of anything as anywhere near expansive and on the scale as Shenmue 1/2, to the point where I struggle to realize what Suzuki's vision for the game actually is. I don't even see how we get anywhere close to those games even at 10 million.

 

[Mononoke]

Is this your first kickstarter? I have to believe this is your first kickstarter.

Everyone is being so dramatic about everything.

Agreed.

I just think people are upset that so many people jumped the gun, and launched an anti campaign against it (assuming Sony was funding it). I agree they could have done this better. And I also don't think the negative reaction against it made it not reach $10 million (it didn't help, but $10 million was a high goal).

Basically, people should really not act before they have all the information. This is true of a lot situations. It's also just frustrating how some were using their dislike for Sony to attack this KS. I mean hell we had that one thread get turned into Sony holding the game hostage. Ridiculous.

 

[beril]

Yes, also considering that Witcher 3 was made in Poland, where wages and cost of living are significantly lower than in Tokyo.

Japanese game dev salaries are also pretty low though. Probably higher than Poland, but significantly lower than US and western Europe

This is a few years old, but if if there's been a raise it has probably been negated by the weaker yen (with the current conversion rate the average in the article is just $42k )
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/118701/Report_Japanese_Developer_Salaries_Average_57590.php

 

[border]

Suzuki chose to use Kickstarter and make the game with the fans because it would allow him to include fan’s input in the game and make it a true ending they would be happy with and maintain full control of the game.

2 Millions is enough, to finish the story.
It has always been like that.

Suzuki has already said that Shenmue 3 is not going to conclude the story.

 

[El_Cinefilo]

I don't think anybody mentioning Witcher 3 (myself included) is expecting Shenmue 3 to be anywhere near the scale, scope and graphical fidelity as Witcher, It's just an example of how much can be done with a fairly modest production budget.

Shenmue being much smaller and using Unreal Engine makes me think a decent game can be made for $10m

 

[UrbanRats]

In your mind, what kind of Shenmue game does 2 million dollars produce? How much different is it from the previous games?

In my mind, I cannot conceive of anything as anywhere near expansive and on the scale as Shenmue 1/2, to the point where I struggle to realize what Suzuki's vision for the game actually is. I don't even see how we get anywhere close to those games even at 10 million.

It's not super clear to anyone, including the developers themselves, because game development is complex and features can become more or less hard to include, when something new pops up.

But what i expect is at least a somewhat linear adventure game, with relatively simple production values, that will finish the story Yu had in mind for Shenmue 3, which is not to say that it'll conclude the whole Shenmue story.

Suzuki has already said that Shenmue 3 is not going to conclude the story.

Read above, that's what i mean.

2 Millions should get you that.
Anything above, will get Shenmue 3 closer and closer to a scope similar to what Shenmue 1 & 2 were. (that goal, i assume, being 10+ millions)

 

[border]

As far as we know Shenmue 3 had and was designed around the scope in the range or somewhat above the Dreamcast and if you're telling me that we still haven't made progress on working on scale so minute that the entire Uncharted 4 jeep scene would've fit the entirety of Shenmue 1 & 2 many times over would mean a complete amateurish attempt at resource handling.

Not to say that it isn't an achievement of some sort, but Uncharted 4's jeep sequence is just a bunch of copy/pasted high-fidelity assets that you truck through at 60 miles an hour, combined with some great looking physics and destruction. Scale is not hard to create if the level of unique details is mostly irrelevant (and it is in this case). That said I wouldn't be surprised if you told me that stage/sequence alone cost 2 million dollars.

The hallmark of Shenmue was completely unique assets and structures, unique NPCs with their own daily routines, and being able to have varied and different conversations with all of them. Whether this can be done on a tiny budget at HD fidelity remains to be seen, but obviously it's all a matter of how big you want the world to be and how much stuff you want to put in it.

 

[NeOak]

Polygon and Ben Kuchera should be considered a banned site and

Spoiler

idiot

"journalist" from GAF for the FUD they spread without checking sources.

Fucking Ben Kuchera. Now I understand why he is so hated. Ugh.

 

[NIGHT-]

They should just port shenmue 1 and 2 to psn and put the profits toward shenmue 3

 

[TheFatOne]

I would be perfectly fine with this game looking like a dreamcast game so long as it still comes out. Hope they have enough funding for the game to come out.

 

[Maligna]

Please update OP and spread this image around on twitter and Facebook.

 

[nib95]

Yeah, but the damage is done. The Kickstarter has stopped to a crawl...moreso than usual.

This won't pass 4 million, and if it does...it'll be by a paltry sum.

Lol. Come back when this Kickstarter ends.

 

[Theonik]

Maybe because more people are interested in an Igavania game than Shenmue 3? Maybe releasing Shenmue 3 on more platforms would widen its appeal? Just a couple thoughts.

First is very unlikely. More platforms and at least not treating PS4 owners like shit would certainly help though. The biggest boosts in Bloodstained's campaign and the ones that had the longest sustained boosts were the multiplatform versions.

 

[UrbanRats]

Please update OP and spread this image around on twitter and Facebook.

Looks like one of those "You have been visited by..." spam images, just saying.

 

[Maligna]

Looks like one of those "You have been visited by..." spam images, just saying.

I didn't make it. Just trying to get the info out because it's important. Someone else with more artistic talent can do thier own version.

 

[Sydle]

Just now catching up on this topic...

If that was the case he probably should have made that clear in the kickstarter info and shouldn't have made the announcement on Sony's stage. I thought it was a Bloodstained situation where he just needed to prove there was enough interest before Sony backed it entirely. Sorry if I don't remember every word Boyes said on stage, but regardless it should have been crystal clear when it was announced. A couple minutes on an E3 stage wasn't a good jumping off point.

I also don't get why people are upset about the Polygon article. I read it just now and it brought up some good points.

Personally, I won't be backing it. I thoroughly enjoyed the first game but found the sequel dreadfully boring, so I'm not interested in what he's thinking about for the third installment.

 

[Mononoke]

Lol. Come back when this Kickstarter ends.

Yeah, KS always get a big wave/push at the end. Always beginning and the end. The middle is always slow to a crawl.

Still, sucks that there was so much backlash against it early on during the first big push. Hopefully now that people know the situation, that wave on the back end will be enough to get it where it needs to go.

 

[Theonik]

Just now catching up on this topic...

If that was the case he probably should have made that clear in the kickstarter info and shouldn't have made the announcement on Sony's stage. I thought it was a Bloodstained situation where he just needed to prove there was enough interest before Sony backed it entirely. Sorry if I don't remember every word Boyes said on stage, but regardless it should have been crystal clear when it was announced. A couple minutes on an E3 stage wasn't a good jumping off point.

I also don't get why people are upset about the Polygon article. I read it just now and it brought up some good points.

"This is very much their project but we wanted to celebrate it on OUR stage"

 

[Chaos17]

FAQ of the kickstarter have been updated with this

Can you make an open world game for just $2 million?

No, we cannot make an open world game for $2 million. Shenmue will be produced using both the funds raised from the Kickstarter and through other funding sources already secured by Ys Net Inc. We are very sorry, but due to contractual obligations, details of outside investments will not be disclosed.

 

[giancarlo123x]

They need better rewards and this will fly up. If a physical ps4 copy were to be added I'd easily raise my pledge higher.

 

[Hugstable]

Polygon and Ben Kuchera should be considered a banned site and

Spoiler

idiot

"journalist" from GAF for the FUD they spread without checking sources.

Fucking Ben Kuchera. Now I understand why he is so hated. Ugh.

Almost every kickstarter has lulls like this, and if you think that a single article did so much damage than i don't really know what to tell you. This isn't the first kickstarter to have a lull after the first few days. This is probably going to have an explosion at the end especially if the 10m figure gets more exposure for the game he wants to make

 

[kuroshiki]

What I was not happy about neogaf was that mods did absolutely NOTHING when obvious trolling was going on, spewing mis-information like there is no tomorrow.

So now what.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Man, screw the negativity campaign against the Shenmue 3 kickstarter and the "concerns".

Jesus Christ, I'm freaking pissed.

 

[border]

I'm guessing that the reason they cannot provide a physical copy on PS4 is because Sony requires some kind of minimum press run, and they don't think they can hit the numbers for it.

 

[Sydle]

"This is very much their project but we wanted to celebrate it on OUR stage"

If you can picture a 30-something with two large monitors working on project due the next day while passively tuning into Sony's conference you'll have a great idea why I don't remember what he said. All I recall is Shenmue, Sony, and kickstarter. I assumed the rest.

What I was not happy about neogaf was that mods did absolutely NOTHING when obvious trolling was going on, spewing mis-information like there is no tomorrow.

So now what.

Welcome to NeoGAF.

 

[kuroshiki]

I'm guessing that the reason they cannot provide a physical copy on PS4 is because Sony requires some kind of minimum press run, and they don't think they can hit the numbers for it.

unlike nintendo who require games made on their own factory, Sony doesn't control physical distribution nor manufacturing of the discs.

No physical because it is too much trouble for yu, that's all.

 

[Gestault]

May the record show that I would be happy with even a relatively simple visual novel that progresses the story, if that were all the funding could support. It looks like we're well past that, anyway. I don't understand how people actually interested in the end-result of the project would respond to developments with the creative scrutiny I've seen in the wild.

 

[afternoon delight]

Reading Kickstarter topics here is an exercise in torment but holy fuck people are already casting doubts on Shenmue 3 based on some lame ass set of consumer principles.... Of course this would happen. That's the story of Jesus, right here.

 

[Roto13]

So they're going to put it out without the level of detail that made the first two games worthwhile.

All right.

 

[kuroshiki]

If you can picture a 30-something with two large monitors working on project due the next day while passively tuning into Sony's conference you'll have a great idea why I don't remember what he said. All I recall is Shenmue, Sony, and kickstarter. I assumed the rest.



Welcome to NeoGAF.

You missed my point completely. Troll is everywhere, not only neogaf. I was not happy about how mods were not functioning at all.

 

[The Inventor]

Good work! More of this in this thread please!

Let's start by spreading this all over social media (Twitter, Facebook, gaming forums etc). Lets stay positive and get this done!

I've already started on Twitter. There's a new Playstation tweet about this game from a couple of minutes ago, it's a good oportunity to spread the word there.

 

[golem]

I'm guessing that the reason they cannot provide a physical copy on PS4 is because Sony requires some kind of minimum press run, and they don't think they can hit the numbers for it.

Igavania offered physical without a problem

 

[Hugstable]

So they're going to put it out without the level of detail that made the first two games worthwhile.

All right.

Umm maybe we should wait for 1) the kickstarter to end, and 2) Wait for more info on the game, before we start making ridiculous statements like that..

 

[Pharaoh 117]

Man, screw the negativity campaign against the Shenmue 3 kickstarter and the "concerns".

Jesus Christ, I'm freaking pissed.

Welcome to the Internet. It sucks, I know.

 

[klier]

Shenmue is going to be the new The Last Guardian

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

I've already started on Twitter. There's a new Playstation tweet about this game from a couple of minutes ago, it's a good oportunity to spread the word there.

Excellent!

 

[RK128]

After reading the OP....it sounds like Sony is filling a similar roll to what Deep Silver is doing with both Mighty No. 9 and Bloodstaned; giving a little bit of money (not a lot but a sizable amount) to help the project out alongside giving the game retail presence (at least in Might No. 9's case).

So, with all of that in mind.....why didn't they say that up front during the press conference :l? People wouldn't have been so lukewarm about the Kickstarter if Sony said:
"Hello, everyone! We want this game to happen as much as you do, so while we are contributing funding to the project, it isn't a lot. That is why there is this Kickstarter and Yu Suzuki chose Kickstarter due to it being a viable platform, shown through many Kickstarters of the past. If you want this project to become a reality, consider putting money into this Kickstarer."

People got so questioning about how Sony is dealing with Kickstarters (even a whole thread was made about that topic), so now that the dust is settled so to speak, the game is just a normal Kickstarter. I hope Yu Suzuki spreads that information to people, that way his goal of getting 5 million can happen and hopefully his dream goal of getting 10 million is possible.

I never played any game in the series (due to now owning a Dreamcast or Xbox), so I will watch the story on YouTube or something to catch up on everything . Hope for the best with this Kickstarter and that one of the biggest 'dream' games ends up being fantastic .

 

[Bowl0l]

Q.

Love your work! You are a pioneer in this industry! As for my question:
How much game elements/features will we be missing in the game if the campaign doesn't reach the $5 million mark?

A.

I will say this: if we reach the $5 mil mark, one of the things I really want to do with Shenmue 3 will become a reality.
At $10 million, it will truly have the features of an open world

As we were saying in the thread, it will likely not get to 10 millions, unfortunately.
Maybe 6, tho.

I will be thankful if it can reach 5 million. Currently it's 3.4+ million with 27 more days to go. Seems like it has slow down a little.

 

[2 Slice Toaster]

Umm maybe we should wait for 1) the kickstarter to end, and 2) Wait for more info on the game, before we start making ridiculous statements like that..

No. 2 should definitely come before No.1 then, since they have already stated it is impossible to make an open-world game from the original funding goal. They really need to nail down the scope of the game to some extent, as opposed to just throwing up there hands and saying, "It will be as good as YOU make it!".

I can appreciate that true Shenmue fans would appreciate ANY form of game at this point, and appreciate the miracle of it existing at all. But if you truly want the game to live up to the same depth as the first two, you need more than the hardest of hardcore for that. You NEED the people who have concerns and uncertainty about the state of the project.

People NEED to stop lashing out and raging at anyone expressing scepticism as just another concern troll.

 

[TheCochese]

It's entirely too bad about not having a physical copy for PS4. I'll be backing the digital version for sure, but it's one of those things that I know collectors like to display series on shelves. Guess that's the PC version for them.

Unfortunately, this is the first Google result for Shenmue 3: http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/2...-3-broke-records-because-sony-lied-to-backers

 

[Mendax]

It's entirely too bad about not having a physical copy for PS4. I'll be backing the digital version for sure, but it's one of those things that I know collectors like to display series on shelves. Guess that's the PC version for them.

Unfortunately, this is the first Google result for Shenmue 3: http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/2...-3-broke-records-because-sony-lied-to-backers

wtf kind of people do this...

 

[Sydle]

You missed my point completely. Troll is everywhere, not only neogaf. I was not happy about how mods were not functioning at all.

You specified NeoGAF in your post. In any case, I agree that trolling is a problem.

The confusion around this game is pretty obvious, so the misinformation is understandable. I see two threads on GAF with one clearly saying Sony is officially funding it and this one where Kickstarter is funding the majority of it.

It seems you weren't entirely clear on Sony's role in this either...

Sony deserve a standing ovation for this. Fuck the haters.


1. Sony is financially backing 14 year old dead franchise that NOBODY was willing to pick. IF you don't know what is big deal about this, think this way.

MS in their 360 heyday when they basically poured endless money into Japanese market, ignored shenmue. Yeah. shenmue was THAT DEAD, mother fuckers.

Sony didn't have to back this. Hell, if Sony basically ignored all the pleas from shenmue fans and gamers, no one would blame Sony for it. Sony instead can spend that money to make their own IP or resurrect their OWN DEAD IP. But instead they listened to their fans and making bet that they can make profit out of this.


2. Sony doesn't even OWN the IP after financial gamble such as this.

You guys know what this means. Basically if Shenmue3 becomes smashing hit and profitable to make a sequel, there will be dozens publishers (even Sega, LOL) who want to make side project or sequels. Sony can lose entire privilege for console exclusiveness, but they are still willing to take that risk.

If this is not showing good will to gamers, I don't know what it is.


3. Sony doesn't block PC, this is huge.

Irony is, Sega's shenmue was basically a killer app Sega was preparing to kill Sony's PS2.

Now after 14 years, it is rival Sony's money that is reviving, Shenmue 3.


I mean, wow. God damn. If someone told me 15 years ago that shenmue 3 will be back by Sony's finance, NO ONE WOULD BELIEVED IT.

Hell, I'm sure none of the Shenmue fans would have look up anyone but SONY for publishing Shenmue.

Yeah bro. It's incredible for sure. Sony actually listen its fans. May their good will repay them with a lot of fortune.

I think we can agree that the communication and presentation could have been improved.

 

[Crocodile]

So now the narrative has changed to "well obviously Sony has to be mostly bankrolling this and the KS is mostly an interest check", which I admittedly thought was the logical scenario but was also what anybody screamed if people questioned if 2 million was really enough to make the game to now Sony isn't a major bankroller here (maybe only helping with marketing or something of the sort) and the KS is the primary funding source? Yeah this has been a circus. Because of all this confounding messaging a lot of legitimate concerns have arisen and even some concern trolling. It's clear that this KS is going to bring it record amounts of money - Shenmue 3 is getting made and that is great for gamers I just think things could have been so much better without so much shitty communication (plus a better run Kickstater).

People keep listing "They should have done a campaign like Bloodstained" but what people dont realise there is theres a lot more money going to PR outlets and suchforth to enable that than what Yu and his band would beyond the Sony link-up.

Mighty No 9 and Bloodstained were like these cross/social media projects from the start while Yu is just saying "need tons of money to make Shenmue game, please pitch in". I personally feel it makes his Kickstarter feel more earnest in weird ways. Theres no strange stretch goal social media manipulation engine to unlock nonsense. Its just: yeah, need money, thanks.

If Suzuki wants the Kickstater to hit 10 million to make the best game he can, he should be doing everything within legal, moral, ethical limits to try to get that done. If being "more earnest" (still not sure how the other campaigns were not/less earnest really) gets him less money and then everybody else gets a smaller game is that good?

All right, so wait. Polygon writes an article saying the funding of Shenmue may not be what backers think it is, and they need to do due diligence. Those who agree that the article has a point are told "just don't back." People take this to heart and factor this into their due diligence to make a backing decision accordingly.

The Polygon article is later vindicated, and promises of a sizeable investment from Sony evaporate. Those people mentioned above who made a decision to back or not back weren't misinformed. And now the article is being blamed, because they made more people consider all the risks than back based on riding a wave of unmitigated enthusiasm?

Right, Polygon didn't sabotage shit (as if one opinion piece could have such impact), the only reason an article like that could even have been written was because of this wonky messaging. It could have all be nipped at the bud and it wouldn't even require something like an explicit budget breakdown or necessarily named investors (though those would of course be preferred).

The problem is, we still have to imagine multiple scenarios precisely because there is still a great deal of uncertainty surrounding how much funding in addition to the KS funds is available to Suzuki.

This happens in most other KS, as many have tirelessly pointed out in multiple threads. The problem is, Shenmue 3 is a sequel to a series that is notorious based on the cost of their development, which were magnitudes higher than the KS total, for which we currently understand is supposed to represent the bulk of the project funding.

People have to understand there are a significant amount of people who didn't cry at the announcement at E3, and haven't contemplated on living on bread and bananas for an extensive period of time so that they can up their contribution to the KS. They simply might find the series interesting, possibly even enjoyed the past entries, but are sceptical based on the gulf in funding that has been guaranteed at this point, based against the past. Suzuki and his team have to continue to work to inform consumers about their vision if they want to continue to have people contribute.

Encouraging people to continue contributing, so that the end result is that much greater, is a fine idea. But telling people to stop talking about the KS funding sources, Sony, etc. is not. It is an interesting topic, and people have shown they want to talk about it. NeoGaf has always been about fostering intelligent conversation about gaming, beyond any other community I've seen. But the people who try to dissuade other from conversing about a topic, because in their eyes it is unproductive, or worse, because they feel it is borne out of malice from some petty console-wars BS may be doing it out of their love for Shenmue, but are losing sight of what Neogaf is about.

If things have gone off the rails, it is because of the nature of the information provided by Suzuki, Sony, and everyone involved in the project.

You yourself have recognized how confused people are based on your previous posts. Not everyone on Gaf and outside of it was glued to watching E3 conferences all week. They've heard Shenmue 3 and Sony. I understand people entirely want a positive narrative about this dream game coming out, but there have been recognizable stumbles along the way which are interesting to look at. The people becoming combative and adopting an "us against them" focus are just as bad, and damaging to changing this narrative.

Bless these posts.

After reading the OP....it sounds like Sony is filling a similar roll to what Deep Silver is doing with both Mighty No. 9 and Bloodstaned; giving a little bit of money (not a lot but a sizable amount) to help the project out alongside giving the game retail presence (at least in Might No. 9's case).

So, with all of that in mind.....why didn't they say that up front during the press conference :l? People wouldn't have been so lukewarm about the Kickstarter if Sony said:
"Hello, everyone! We want this game to happen as much as you do, so while we are contributing funding to the project, it isn't a lot. That is why there is this Kickstarter and Yu Suzuki chose Kickstarter due to it being a viable platform, shown through many Kickstarters of the past. If you want this project to become a reality, consider putting money into this Kickstarer."

People got so questioning about how Sony is dealing with Kickstarters (even a whole thread was made about that topic), so now that the dust is settled so to speak, the game is just a normal Kickstarter. I hope Yu Suzuki spreads that information to people, that way his goal of getting 5 million can happen and hopefully his dream goal of getting 10 million is possible.

I never played any game in the series (due to now owning a Dreamcast or Xbox), so I will watch the story on YouTube or something to catch up on everything . Hope for the best with this Kickstarter and that one of the biggest 'dream' games ends up being fantastic .

I don't know how much Deep Silver is contributing to Mighty No. 9 (but it getting VA for both languages, a physical in stores release, etc. suggest not an insignificant amount) but we do know Deep Silver is contributing at least about $4.5 million to Bloodstained's budget. That is close to 50%.

 

[King Gilga]

That's super disappointing, the scope of what they could do with sony funds is much bigger.

Oh well, what can you do, a lot less interested now...

 

[kuroshiki]

You specified NeoGAF in your post. In any case, I agree that trolling is a problem.

The confusion around this game is pretty obvious, so the misinformation is understandable. I see two threads on GAF with one clearly saying Sony is officially funding it and this one where Kickstarter is funding the majority of it.

It seems you weren't entirely clear on what Sony's role in this either...

and what I did wasn't damaging to the shenmue franchise, unlike trolls who screamed 'don't support shenmue kickstarter, sony is already paying the bills'. what is your point?

 

[RK128]

I don't know how much Deep Silver is contributing to Mighty No. 9 (but it getting VA for both languages, a physical in stores release, etc. suggest not an insignificant amount) but we do know Deep Silver is contributing at least about $4.5 million to Bloodstained's budget. That is close to 50%.

Guess I was mostly wrong about Bloodstained's case. And I look at that extra 4.5 Million as 'extra' money as a back up; if the Kickstarter wasn't a huge success, than that funding would have made up for that lack of support (I think :l). Still, its great seeing smaller publishers like Deep silver seeing potential with Kickstarter . Helps make more games a reality .

Regarding Shenmue 3, I guess Sony is having a similar role to Mighty No. 9 (helping out with other factors, which would be...around 1 million I assume?).

 

[Donos]

It's entirely too bad about not having a physical copy for PS4. I'll be backing the digital version for sure, but it's one of those things that I know collectors like to display series on shelves. Guess that's the PC version for them.

Unfortunately, this is the first Google result for Shenmue 3: http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/2...-3-broke-records-because-sony-lied-to-backers

holy...

It’s one thing to pledge funds in the belief that it’s the only way to see a long-desired project come to fruition and another to pledge them to a company that’s planning to take your money, pocket it, and claim the entire campaign was an attempt to assess interest. Kickstarter should kill the project cold — but if they don’t, Sony should cancel it of their own volition, thank people for demonstrating support for the franchise, and go make the damned game.

 

[Spaghetti]

That's super disappointing, the scope of what they could do with sony funds is much bigger.

Oh well, what can you do, a lot less interested now...

could always up your pledge if you care to. every penny counts i guess.

 

[Sydle]

and what I did wasn't damaging to the shenmue franchise, unlike trolls who screamed 'don't support shenmue kickstarter, sony is already paying the bills'. what is your point?

The misinformation and confusion is understandable. And internet dog piles on confusing or controversial topics is nothing new. The presentation of it all could have been better and a lot of this could have been avoided, but there's no going back.

If I were you I'd make peace with the fact it was a less-than-ideal start and focus on the positive. There are a lot of people out there who want to see it happen, so go rally with them instead of picking up a pitchfork.

 

[NervousXtian]

and what I did wasn't damaging to the shenmue franchise, unlike trolls who screamed 'don't support shenmue kickstarter, sony is already paying the bills'. what is your point?

You are accusing GAFers of damaging Shenmue... and you are bitching about the mods?

Holy shit man.

Stop acting like you have inside knowledge of everything going down.. you don't.. I don't think Yu even has an idea of what's totally going down.. just tossing out numbers with vague descriptions.

There's shit to be skeptical here without accusing anyone of trolling.