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[David Ricardo]

Manufacturing and shipping physical copies costs money. With the external funding being much less than what people assumed, I now understand why the stretch goals for this project are all gameplay-focused and the reward tiers are lacking. Instead of putting backer money towards producing fan swag, Suzuki wants to put every single cent into game development. This isn't meant to be on an indie scale project like Bloodstained or PoE, Suzuki wants to make this an AAA game as much as he possibly can.

I understand it costs money to manufacture physical copies, but I suppose it doesn't cost 31$. If I pay 60$ and let's say 15$ go to production and shipping, he still gets 16$ more to fund the game. And once I get to 60$ I may start thinking in spending even more. But right now, I don't even consider paying more than 29$ because I feel like I'm paying for things I won't be getting.

 

[Spaghetti]

it cost around $80m. but it also was in development for about 5-6 years, starting on the saturn and ending on the dreamcast.

$45 million actually, yu suzuki came clean about that at an event a couple years ago. i'd pull up the source but it seems to have significantly sunk on google because of all the shenmue 3 news.

 

[Yjynx]

Seems you're not understanding.

Of course various negations could be happening or not

To try and help you, perhaps look at Chris Roberts of Star Citizen fame , how that was handled early on.

This Shenmue thing could've been handled a lot better. Too many are in the dark and also many assumptions and cost of development based of wrong info of old games are going around.

One bad thing right now is how people think its mostly funded by Sony and even saying Sony should now refund the 2 million now they reached the goal. Press and fans alike think this

I have to post info on a Giant Bomb after show with Adam Boyes stating how large funding isn't possible. It's not possible with Microsoft either due to ip rights.

So please stop with the quotes and accept this can be handled in a much better way with a bit more info for the fans to act or not

OK I get it. I'll admit that it might be handled better but at the same time there are definitely an attempt of spreading the misinformation around. Even the press like polygon should have known better.

 

[Pikma]

i was pulling my information from the famitsu article which apparently was written before the kickstarter went live. so to my knowledge it's still accurate that sony and other additional funding sources will be kicking in sub-$2 million.

So Shenmue 3 is probably the cheapest console exclusive ever and one of the biggest and most talked about at the same time? Poor Sony I hope they don't go bankrupt because of wanting to support their beloved fans.

 

[DidntKnowJack]

I think announcing it at e3 did harm it a lot. It gave the impression that Sony was financially backing this up.

This is what Boyes said at the conference word for word.

"Now recently, a developer told us that they were bringing back a fan favorite to kickstarter for PC and PS4. Now this is very much their project, but we wanted to celebrate their announcement on our stage."

 

[Zafir]

Didn't the first Shenmue cost like $70 million ($100 million adjusted for inflation)?

Sort of. That total is a poor example of what it would cost now though.

That total includes the game being developed for saturn and then dreamcast. It also includes assets for 2 and 3. Not to mention a lot of the tech used then was ground beaking at the time.

Now they're using a preexisting engine which can do all the things Shenmue 1 and 2 did easily.

 

[Toki767]

I understand it costs money to manufacture physical copies, but I suppose it doesn't cost 31$. If I pay 60$ and let's say 15$ go to production and shipping, he still gets 16$ more to fund the game. And once I get to 60$ I may start thinking in spending even more. But right now, I don't even consider paying more than 29$ because I feel like I'm paying for things I won't be getting.

That other $16 probably goes to rights and royalties to actually print PS4 discs.

There's no such fees for a PC version I think which is why that's the only one being offered.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

from the kickstarter:



still sounds like an open door to me.


he may be at the top, but the kickstarter as well as corsi/boyes/drake all contradict that. in the case of corsi/boyes/drake, they are all closer to the matter and i would think would know the details more exactly/intimately

Then why haven't they announced Xbox One support? It would definitely get them more backers, and should be an easy port with a PC version already planned. "Additional platforms" is probably more like Linux and OSX.

But anyway, I won't stop you from deluding yourself. The comments from House are pretty damn clear, and I think he knows what 3rd party exclusives his company is publishing.

 

[chromatic9]

As I've posted in a few other Shenmue threads this week, if you want to understand Sony's relationship with this game look at Grim Fandango Remastered, the game that Boyes announced at E3 last year. Like Shenmue 3, that was managed through SCEA's third party productions group under Boyes, it was self-published by the original dev under licence and it was PS4/PC with other platforms TBA. Sony's involvement is in providing publicity and making things happen, but definitely not publishing or financing the game apart from possibly a pub fund type arrangement (which is basically a loan against future revenue), not tens of millions of dollars as some seem to think!

It was a mistake not to be clear about this from the start. Fortunately there's plenty of time left to improve the Kickstarter.

Yes exactly and still lots of time.

Sadly the best info right now for fans and press to understand is Adam on a Giant Bomb stream and scattered forum posts buried in a thread like this.

 

[Pikma]

Why, exactly? It's not like fans providing the funding get nothing in return.

I know, they get $10,000 jackets!!!!!!!

 

[Spaghetti]

So Shenmue 3 is probably the cheapest console exclusive ever and one of the biggest and most talked about at the same time? Poor Sony I hope they don't go bankrupt because of wanting to support their beloved fans.

again, it isn't clear if it is actually a console exclusive at all. i would ask anybody who wants it on xbox to make themselves known to phil spencer. there's still a chance for things to change.

 

[spons]

It's such a weird thing to say.

Wanting fans to finance the MAJORITY of the cost. But a third party gets the game as a marketing/console exclusive.

I'm hoping this is not the case, because that would be truly scummy.

Well they did announce this game as being their project, so the marketing part is questionable.

Also, people aren't funding this as quickly as a couple of days ago. It seemed to be off to a flaming start and now just somewhat chugs along.

 

[Jomjom]

Forget the console wars and Shenmu for a moment and think that way
This is the 1st kickstarter that was pushed by a giant cooperation at e3 even by just exposure, and no one think that giant cooperation do things just for good will since there is no good will when it comes to money.

It's just natural that some projects at kickstarter are mad.

Newsflash: no creator of a KS game project does it out of just "goodwill". Fuck when will people understand KS isnt some sort of charity make a wish foundation for your dreams?

 

[joshcryer]

If Sony isn't an investment partner to some significant extent then it becomes a Taletell game level of production and there is no hope for any profit. Just a small company breaking even at most. It would be utterly inconceivable to me.

I don't know how I feel about this or if it's true or what. It feels like if MS wanted to they could come right on in and make it a game for the X1 and completely screw Sony over.

Sony better get the fuck on board now if they aren't. Seriously.

As I've posted in a few other Shenmue threads this week, if you want to understand Sony's relationship with this game look at Grim Fandango Remastered, the game that Boyes announced at E3 last year.

If it's like that then Sony blew the pooch. Totally fucked up. Boyes has to be wiser than that. I don't know though. We'll have to see. This is crazy.

 

[HighResTomato]

Why, exactly? It's not like fans providing the funding get nothing in return.

Because it is. If Sony want this to be exclusive so bad they should just fund it like SFV instead of banking on the fan base their desperation for a sequel.

 

[Acheteedo]

Well shit... that's a tiny budget then. That sucks, hope it's just public bullshit in order to boost the kickstarter contributions.

 

[yatesl]

Also, people aren't funding this as quickly as a couple of days ago. It seemed to be off to a flaming start and now just somewhat chugs along.

That happens with most Kickstarters.

 

[DidntKnowJack]

Because it is. If Sony want this to be exclusive so bad they should just fund it like SFV instead of banking on the fan base their desperation for a sequel.

It wasn't their call. This isn't their IP.

And SFV is a different situation completely.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

I know, they get $10,000 jackets!!!!!!!

Most people have pledged 30$, including me. That gets them the game. Other Kickstarters also have crazy-expensive unique items, this is really not a point of contention.

 

[BuffetChamp]

$10 Million? Err that means they want that much from donations before companies like Sony and whomever else will even touch this with real investment?

 

[Maintenance]

People are already concern trolling in this thread? Damn that was fast.

 

[Coxswain]

i was pulling my information from the famitsu article which apparently was written before the kickstarter went live. so to my knowledge it's still accurate that sony and other additional funding sources will be kicking in sub-$2 million.

Well regardless of when it was written, the "sub-$2m" figure is still contingent on him having an expectation that the Kickstarter campaign would only return $2m.

Like, hypothetically, if Yu Suzuki were a lunatic and "expected" that the Kickstarter would raise $50 million, then his statements would still be true even if Sony were putting in $40m.

That's obviously not the case, but if his expectations for the Kickstarter were to raise $5m, then the amount of outside funding is "sub-$5m", not strictly "sub-$2m".


Basically, I believe that his statements in the interview are true, and it's very possible that the outside funding comes to less than $2 million, but it would also be very unusual for him to "expect" to come away from the campaign with "only" the $2m minimum funding, and so his statements in that article could reasonably mean that his outside funding is anywhere from $1-2m (or less, but that would be unusual) up to $5-6m (or more, but that would also be unusual).

 

[Insomnium]

Because it is. If Sony want this to be exclusive so bad they should just fund it like SFV instead of banking on the fan base their desperation for a sequel.

One is a popular franchise with one of the most active community in thw world and the other is a cult classic, very much dead in the last 14 years. Yeah, I know, no difference right?

 

[Spaghetti]

Then why haven't they announced Xbox One support? It would definitely get them more backers, and should be an easy port with a PC version already planned. "Additional platforms" is probably more like Linux and OSX.

But anyway, I won't stop you from deluding yourself. The comments from House are pretty damn clear, and I think he knows what 3rd party exclusives his company is publishing.

seeing how he's contradicting the kickstarter itself along with three other sony people who are closer to the matter than he is, i think there's still room to cast doubt on console exclusivity. hopefully there is more information soon, i could be wrong of course but until it is made definitively clear, everything is still on the table.

as for why there isn't an announced xbox one version? cost most likely, but it may have something to do with a lack of outreach from microsoft. now that shenmue 3 is definitely a thing it may change their mind. all it needs are the fans to reach out.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

Because it is. If Sony want this to be exclusive so bad they should just fund it like SFV instead of banking on the fan base their desperation for a sequel.

They clearly made a deal with Yu Suzuki good enough for him to agree to exclusivity, and we know some funding is involved. It's just that the risk is too great for them to justify spending tens of millions, how is this so hard to understand?

 

[Elfforkusu]

Well regardless of when it was written, the "sub-$2m" figure is still contingent on him having an expectation that the Kickstarter campaign would only return $2m.

Like, hypothetically, if Yu Suzuki were a lunatic and "expected" that the Kickstarter would raise $50 million, then his statements would still be true even if Sony were putting in $40m.

That's obviously not the case, but if his expectations for the Kickstarter were to raise $5m, then the amount of outside funding is "sub-$5m", not strictly "sub-$2m".


Basically, I believe that his statements in the interview are true, and it's very possible that the outside funding comes to less than $2 million, but it would also be very unusual for him to "expect" to come away from the campaign with "only" the $2m minimum funding, and so his statements in that article could reasonably mean that his outside funding is anywhere from $1-2m (or less, but that would be unusual) up to $5-6m (or more, but that would also be unusual).

Right.

It's also possible (my opinion: likely) that the outside funding has not been finalized, that is it currently falls within a range. In that case, the better the kickstarter does, the more interest he's able to drum up with outside partners = more money.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

seeing how he's contradicting the kickstarter itself along with three other sony people who are closer to the matter than he is, i think there's still room to cast doubt on console exclusivity. hopefully there is more information soon, i could be wrong of course but until it is made definitively clear, everything is still on the table.

as for why there isn't an announced xbox one version? cost most likely, but it may have something to do with a lack of outreach from microsoft. now that shenmue 3 is definitely a thing it may change their mind. all it needs are the fans to reach out.

He's not contradicting the Kickstarter though. Linux/OSX-support would still be "other platforms". It's not necessarily about consoles. You're the one reading stuff into it.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

It's such a weird thing to say.

Wanting fans to finance the MAJORITY of the cost. But a third party gets the game as a marketing/console exclusive.

I'm hoping this is not the case, because that would be truly scummy.

To be fair, we still don’t know if Sony is going to donate anything just yet. It would be amazing if they did!

Spoiler

DO IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!

 

[Majukun]

i just realized that suzuki is still convinced to make the game the original size..so this means that ven if we get shenmue 3...we are gonna need a shenmue 4 and maybe a 5 one to reach the end.

 

[Jomjom]

People are already concern trolling in this thread? Damn that was fast.

Yeah I'm out I can't handle another of these threads with people who i suspect are just jealous it's not going to xbox. Why is xbox even being mentioned in this thread? The game is ps4/pc. I just see it as concern trolling and subtle port begging mixed in with a bit of "if i can't have a thing I'm going to try my hardest to make sure no one else does too. "

 

[Rymuth]

One is a popular franchise with one of the most active community in thw world and the other is a cult classic, very much dead in the last 14 years. Yeah, I know, no difference right?

They clearly made a deal with Yu Suzuki good enough for him to agree to exclusivity, and we some some funding is involved. It's just that the risk is too great for them to justify spending tens of millions, how is this so hard to understand?

You're talking to someone who called Indie Developers who forsake Xbox 'scumbags' and suggested they physically harm thesmelves for skipping his console of choice.

Dont even bother with that one.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

You're talking to someone who called Indie Developers who forsake Xbox 'scumbags' and suggested they physically harm thesmelves for skipping his console of choice.

Dont even bother with that one.

Didn't know that, thanks. I'll be stepping out of the ring on this one then.

 

[Spaghetti]

Well regardless of when it was written, the "sub-$2m" figure is still contingent on him having an expectation that the Kickstarter campaign would only return $2m.

Like, hypothetically, if Yu Suzuki were a lunatic and "expected" that the Kickstarter would raise $50 million, then his statements would still be true even if Sony were putting in $40m.

That's obviously not the case, but if his expectations for the Kickstarter were to raise $5m, then the amount of outside funding is "sub-$5m", not strictly "sub-$2m".


Basically, I believe that his statements in the interview are true, and it's very possible that the outside funding comes to less than $2 million, but it would also be very unusual for him to "expect" to come away from the campaign with "only" the $2m minimum funding, and so his statements in that article could reasonably mean that his outside funding is anywhere from $1-2m (or less, but that would be unusual) up to $5-6m (or more, but that would also be unusual).

suzuki also said that if the kickstarter only got $2 million that they would only be creating a story-focussed experience. of course, now that the kickstarter is gunning for the 4-5 million range, he's now expressing desire to be more ambitious. i don't think sony is going to match the kickstarter amount dollar for dollar either.

i just don't think anybody expected the amount of support the kickstarter has gotten already. adam boyes said as much recently. that's why nobody can get their story straight, because they've just had their planned answers blown totally out of the water.

it's still all or nothing with kickstarter. fans needs to dig deep and get the word out.

 

[R_thanatos]

I'm not convinced. If Kickstarter contributions were so important, the goal wouldn't have been set so low.

I'm sure they want to get as much as they can to help with the budget, but I'm also fairly sure Sony will have chipped in a cool 10-20m of their own at the very least.

This whole thing has been fishy from the beginning. The only reason I pledged is out of respect for YS.

That goal was so low because it was the bare minimum for the thing being made to be a "game", as more money being in the project , the game become closer to what we want ... i don't even see how that is so hard to understand. You obviously make a game in regards to the budget you have. The original idea was to make shenmue 3 in game form. not to make the perfect shenmue game.

 

[HighResTomato]

It wasn't their call. This isn't their IP.

SFV is a different situation completely.

If this was Suzuki's call then it seems even more stupid and I wouldn't in a million years back the project. As such a deal has to involve some personal gain he is not disclosing. If he wanted to make this game for all the fans by all the fans making it a console exclusive does not make sense.

This whole project is dodgy and they need to come forward with details if they want other people's money to develop it.

 

[Yjynx]

Seriously why any mention of Xbox again in this thread?

 

[Pandy]

This is what Boyes said at the conference word for word.

"Now recently, a developer told us that they were bringing back a fan favorite to kickstarter for PC and PS4. Now this is very much their project, but we wanted to celebrate their announcement on our stage."

Neogaf thread from Adam Boyes talking the NEXT day:

Sony is officially helping with funding and development with Shenmue 3
It was just announced by Gio Corsi during their Live from E3 Stream on twitch. It was something to gauge interest and since it hit it's goal they are officially partnering up to help fund and develop with YS Net.

If he'd just kept his mouth shut after announcing it on the E3 stage, I think it would have been okay.

 

[Jomjom]

Seriously why any mention of Xbox again in this thread?

Because salt.

 

[Dunkley]

It's a pity then that he isn't able to make it availible for the Xbox One, but I figure while development is on him, maybe Sony is handling all of the marketing.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

Seriously why any mention of Xbox again in this thread?

Seriously, I understand being annoyed that a title you want is not coming to your platform of choice, but some people are just plain in denial at this point.

 

[Zafir]

seeing how he's contradicting the kickstarter itself along with three other sony people who are closer to the matter than he is, i think there's still room to cast doubt on console exclusivity. hopefully there is more information soon, i could be wrong of course but until it is made definitively clear, everything is still on the table.

as for why there isn't an announced xbox one version? cost most likely, but it may have something to do with a lack of outreach from microsoft. now that shenmue 3 is definitely a thing it may change their mind. all it needs are the fans to reach out.

I think it's pretty clear that PS4 has console exclusivity. Just like many of Sonys other indie projects.

It may come out on Xbox if it's only timed. Which may be the case, and could explain some of the ambiguity. No one's saying no because it may come eventually.

 

[Elios83]

Seriously why any mention of Xbox again in this thread?

Indeed, game has already dev partners and MS is not one of them. They missed the opportunity. Move on.

Now they just need the Kickstarter to end to take final decisions on the investements to make and the scope of the final game. It's pretty clear.

 

[Spaghetti]

He's not contradicting the Kickstarter though. Linux/OSX-support would still be "other platforms". It's not necessarily about consoles. You're the one reading stuff into it.

i don't think all the platforms would be lumped together so ambiguously if that were the case

 

[Sorral]

Quick and dirty translation of the Andrew House bit:

I feel like that should be in the OP. Thanks for taking the time to do that.

Because it is. If Sony want this to be exclusive so bad they should just fund it like SFV instead of banking on the fan base their desperation for a sequel.

Read the Andrew House interview. It seems that they are backing it up, but not as much as most were expecting. It might be also in the form of an indie pop fund as others mentioned with reduced licensing fee or something. So not a whole much in actual money.

Also, you can't really compare a franchise left untouched for 14 years with previous bad sales to SFV. Seriously..

$10 Million? Err that means they want that much from donations before companies like Sony and whomever else will even touch this with real investment?

From the interview and the initial information, the KS reaching 2M is already enough for investors to invest in it. The 5m and 10m numbers are what Yu wants to do more work in the game.

 

[DidntKnowJack]

If this was Suzuki's call then it seems even more stupid and I wouldn't in a million years back the project. As such a deal has to involve some personal gain he is not disclosing. If he wanted to make this game for all the fans by all the fans making it a console exclusive does not make sense.

This whole project is dodgy and they need to come forward with details if they want other people's money to develop it.

Let's be honest, you wouldn't have backed this project either way.

And I cannot believe we're back to this same stupid argument again that's already been proven to be bullshit.

 

[E-Cat]

One example of a KS project that did reach $10 million is the Pebble watch:

You can see it started out very similarly, but kept going at a rate that Shenmue 3 has already fallen behind.

I think there's a lot of frustration that the stretch goals are not really "stretch goals", but essentially needed to make the core game world complete. This is not the best way to court potential backers.

 

[Loudninja]

What ever they are doing they have Sony support which is fantastic or them.

 

[Pie and Beans]

People keep listing "They should have done a campaign like Bloodstained" but what people dont realise there is theres a lot more money going to PR outlets and suchforth to enable that than what Yu and his band would beyond the Sony link-up.

Mighty No 9 and Bloodstained were like these cross/social media projects from the start while Yu is just saying "need tons of money to make Shenmue game, please pitch in". I personally feel it makes his Kickstarter feel more earnest in weird ways. Theres no strange stretch goal social media manipulation engine to unlock nonsense. Its just: yeah, need money, thanks.

 

[GavinGT]

Why is it not possible to pay for a physical copy for the PS4?

I've got a theory on this:

Maybe it's part of the Sony contract. Sony publishes the disc version for stores and gets a larger cut of those copies.

They've been totally radio-silent about a physical PS4 copy except for the flat-out refusal in the Kickstarter FAQ. It has to be something contractual.

 

[chromatic9]

If Sony isn't an investment partner to some significant extent then it becomes a Taletell game level of production and there is no hope for any profit. Just a small company breaking even at most. It would be utterly inconceivable to me.

I don't know how I feel about this or if it's true or what. It feels like if MS wanted to they could come right on in and make it a game for the X1 and completely screw Sony over.

Sony better get the fuck on board now if they aren't. Seriously.



If it's like that then Sony blew the pooch. Totally fucked up. Boyes has to be wiser than that. I don't know though. We'll have to see. This is crazy.

if they fund most of it then it becomes a situation of needing to be an ip of Sony's.. Yu Suzuki is self publishing it. MS could just throw in 20 million to win the hearts and minds of gamers but they wouldn't own shit hence Phil Spencer's post on it.

All Sony is doing is helping out the best they can while not needing to control the ip and not lose out. Once done this game can be put on xbox or wherever. If Sony or MS back this then it needs to be in their control unless they feel really charitable.

Just to end, joshcryer posts highlights the mistakes on how this was presented and how fans and press have seen it. At least it can be fixed though