SteveWinwood
Member
oh if bodacious owned a gun and never shot anyone okay I guess we should just move on
7 People Including 2 Kids Shot In West Philly (USA)
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AstroNut325
Member
Isn't this a logical fallacy? How are other countries able to achieve a much lower gun violence per capita?
HiredN00bs
Banned
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOKWcH1zBl2kfnCwyyZWk5MW28lgaNa7L
Why wouldn't a ban like Australia instituted be reasonable for the USA?
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
this doesnt really mean anything, saying guns dont kill people, people kill people is just pointless. its extremely easy to demonstrate that a large population having unfettered access to guns is a terrible idea. and 'changing people' doesnt operate like that at scale. if you have a population and 1% is deeply unstable then you give everyone extremely effective murder weapons....
source: all of the mass shootings america likes to have
of course it is, but its the problem obama or someone else reasonable must also address. the shouting post gun control when the first person without a 'defense gun' gets shot, will be bad
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
You can legally own guns in australia too, but the laws are much stricter.
makingmusic476
Member
I love how many gun rights advocates say "fuck stats, here's an anecdote" to justify the continuation of our sprawling firearms manufacturing and distribution industries, as if the ease by which guns can be obtained has no effect on how dangerous criminals can be.
And, of course, there's also the people killed by accidental shootings. Or the unarmed people shot by police because they've become inclined to believe everyone could be armed. These are things you just don't see in countries like the UK, Australia, and Japan.
But hey, my right to shoot squirrels should not be infringed!
SteveWinwood
Member
i mean I own a gun and haven't shot anyone
whoopteedoo
what the hell does that have to do with anything
whoopteedoo
what the hell does that have to do with anything
Yeah Canada has a permitting system but once you fill out the paperwork you can start ordering guns off the internet straight to your door. Canadians can also buy stuff that hasn't been allowed or strictly regulated in the USA for over 80 years, like sawed-off shotguns and silencers. The per capita gun ownership rate there is high, but no devastating gun death statistic. Why is that? (It certainly isn't only because of that permitting system. Might help, but not so much that it accounts for the discrepancy vs. USA)
The culture perhaps? There are countries that allow citizens with decent amounts of firepower yet they do not descend into madness.
We can own short barrel shotguns such as sawed offs and the like.
I think American gun laws are completely stupid, but I feel at this stage trying to get rid of them would be looking putting the toothpaste back in the tube. You guys have a cultural problem just as much as a gun availability problem (although it's likely they go hand in hand). I can't even begin to imagine the problems you'd see if the government actually started to try and take guns off people. Whoever does decide to start and tackle the problem is going to have to be smart about it.
MisterShine
Member
What don't people get about this?
There are twenty-some dead kids in the ground in Connecticut that proved, definitively that gun control is never, ever going to happen in this country. Ever.
This is the price we pay for our government and culture of 200 years. Nothing is going to make a damn bit of difference now.
There are twenty-some dead kids in the ground in Connecticut that proved, definitively that gun control is never, ever going to happen in this country. Ever.
This is the price we pay for our government and culture of 200 years. Nothing is going to make a damn bit of difference now.
Messypandas
Member
Sad and fucking maddening
TheStruggler
Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
sadly this, the time was then those poor little children, but wait it was to early to talk about gun violence and gun control.
Because it won't work. It just won't. Nothing would sell more guns in the USA than banning them. Even people who don't own guns now would feel the need to get theirs. And we're very obviously incompetent at controlling what comes across our borders, so the supply won't dry up.
MisterShine
Member
The problem is it is far, far too late. Our dilemma was set before our current President was born. We have about as many guns as we have people, and we have had a culture of personal defense and weapon ownership older even than our actual country.
Even IF there is a massive shift in the views on gun control (and there absolutely won't be) there are far to many guns out there and they are too easy to move around. There is nothing to do that will make a difference in our lifetimes.
Messypandas
Member
As a Brit the only change I heard arising from that was that they knocked the school down. Pathetic.
Because the citizens don't want it.
Flawless logic. In other words, why bother trying? Why bother limiting the amount of gun fatalities. "Because it wont work. It just won't"
I am quite surprised at the amount of defeatism that a lot of you exhibit, thinking that you cannot change the direction of your country on gun ownership. In 1934 they passed the NFA. Somehow back then they got this to work.
Now here we are in the age of social media with big brother at every turn. Now tell me, how is it too late?
Now here we are in the age of social media with big brother at every turn. Now tell me, how is it too late?
Fuck what citizens want! If they can't understand a change for the better is in the interest of public safety then you get what you're given not what you want.
Conor_Fool
Banned
Fucking christ, 7 people picnicking are shot and some people still make jokes. Grow the fuck up.
It's unfortunate that threads like this turn into gun control debates but its a reasonable response. The U.S. now more than ever needs to reexamine these laws and come up with a reasonable solution, though I fear that won't happen anytime soon.
I can't believe that none of these 7 victims are dead. I hope that as many as possible are able to pull through.
It's unfortunate that threads like this turn into gun control debates but its a reasonable response. The U.S. now more than ever needs to reexamine these laws and come up with a reasonable solution, though I fear that won't happen anytime soon.
I can't believe that none of these 7 victims are dead. I hope that as many as possible are able to pull through.
Sign
Member
People saying, why bother if someone might, possibly, somehow, one-day, potentially, be able to purchase a gun with laws in place sound like people who are part of the problem to me. Full. Stop.
If this country really wanted to get rid of guns, we could do it. Maybe not all guns, but most. At the very least, it would be expensive and difficult to obtain one.
1) massive buy-back program for all regular citizens.
2) make all production, manufacturing and distribution of fire arms / ammunition illegal.
a) all companies that do this have their current inventory purchased and destroyed.
b) all smaller re-sellers have their inventory purchased and destroyed.
3) make it illegal to purchase, sell, trade and gift fire arms / ammunition
-) this will force more known websites to clamp down on these sort of transactions, along with gun shows, etc.
4) make it illegal to open and conceal carry.
5) people may keep what guns they have at home, but they must be registered.
a) if one is caught with an unregistered fire arm in the house that is a felony / fine and the weapon is confiscated.
b) if the weapon is used in a crime it is confiscated and the owner is held liable, unless it was stolen and reported stolen previously. They are still fined.
-) most people will end up selling their weapons, because why risk it and they haven't used it.
6) any weapon confiscated is destroyed.
7) Profit.
Are you going to have a black market? Of course. But it is going to be for a niche group that is going to have a dwindling supply of weapons. Because here is the thing, a lot of people don't own fire arms and most who do have never had to use them. Hell, the average police officer has never had to discharge their weapon either.
And, unlike prohibition and war on drugs where any asshole can grow weed / make alcohol, making a fire-arm / ammunition is much more difficult.
It will mean people who want to get a gun will have to know how, it will mean needing money to afford the purchase, it will put time between a person "wanting to use a gun" and getting it, etc.
It won't stop everything, but it will be better.
If this country really wanted to get rid of guns, we could do it. Maybe not all guns, but most. At the very least, it would be expensive and difficult to obtain one.
1) massive buy-back program for all regular citizens.
2) make all production, manufacturing and distribution of fire arms / ammunition illegal.
a) all companies that do this have their current inventory purchased and destroyed.
b) all smaller re-sellers have their inventory purchased and destroyed.
3) make it illegal to purchase, sell, trade and gift fire arms / ammunition
-) this will force more known websites to clamp down on these sort of transactions, along with gun shows, etc.
4) make it illegal to open and conceal carry.
5) people may keep what guns they have at home, but they must be registered.
a) if one is caught with an unregistered fire arm in the house that is a felony / fine and the weapon is confiscated.
b) if the weapon is used in a crime it is confiscated and the owner is held liable, unless it was stolen and reported stolen previously. They are still fined.
-) most people will end up selling their weapons, because why risk it and they haven't used it.
6) any weapon confiscated is destroyed.
7) Profit.
Are you going to have a black market? Of course. But it is going to be for a niche group that is going to have a dwindling supply of weapons. Because here is the thing, a lot of people don't own fire arms and most who do have never had to use them. Hell, the average police officer has never had to discharge their weapon either.
And, unlike prohibition and war on drugs where any asshole can grow weed / make alcohol, making a fire-arm / ammunition is much more difficult.
It will mean people who want to get a gun will have to know how, it will mean needing money to afford the purchase, it will put time between a person "wanting to use a gun" and getting it, etc.
It won't stop everything, but it will be better.
Interesting.
If that's the case, then what exactly do citizens need the government for?
To save us from ourselves, I suppose. There's an old line of logic.
Messypandas
Member
Its not going to happen over-night, but after decades of confiscating, gun amnesties etc you're going to see a drop in gun circulation. You think some would be teen school shooter would know how to get a gun on the black market? Smuggled across the border and sold in some back alley? In Britain I know theres ways to get guns, but personally, I'd have no idea where to even start looking. Thats a good thing.
It happened in both places in the same night. Ten people at a block party in Detroit.
But we don't have a problem.
Great post
They also held a rally to collect and burn violent video games.
kitschykitty
Member
Canada has very strict laws on restricted weapons such as handguns which probably helps,you need a different classification of licence to purchase restricted weapons and they are only able to be taken out at home or in a place like a gun range and must be transported unloaded with trigger locks (unless you work in security). Also sawed offs are only allowed within certain size restrictions, and silencers are technically legal but for an insignificant amount of people who already had a licence for one before ~2000 or if you want one now you have to get special permission from the RCMP or chief firearms officer (which they really don't give out).
I agree with everything you said. Been my way of thinking for years.
Messypandas
Member
I feel safer already!
That's what they said about prohibition. That went well. This would be worse. It wouldn't limit the amount of gun fatalities, it would very likely increase them. People won't surrender the ones they have, and those without will suddenly feel they need one even if they never did before. You're just going to give the cartels another major source of income and power.
Cereal KiIIer
Member
onken
Member
Yes hide it away in a place it won't be seen, this is clearly the solution to this problem.
Gun control will never happen. All that will happen is more deregulation and more death.
If Sandy Hook couldn't change anyone's mind, nothing will.
Add to that, nobody is willing to support it. Most Dems get wishy washy. Republicans are in lockstep. The Police don't either. Nobody of any relevance to the issue will support gun control.
In fact, Obama just mentioning gun control will cause gun sales to spike. Its not about the fucking 2nd amendment, its about gun sales.
If Sandy Hook couldn't change anyone's mind, nothing will.
Add to that, nobody is willing to support it. Most Dems get wishy washy. Republicans are in lockstep. The Police don't either. Nobody of any relevance to the issue will support gun control.
In fact, Obama just mentioning gun control will cause gun sales to spike. Its not about the fucking 2nd amendment, its about gun sales.
Let's ban all guns, right ? That would've kept the shotgun out of this law abiding citizens hands.
onken
Member
Potentially yes, actually.
True. But also why, at least for now, it's not going to happen. GAF might want it, but the American public sure doesn't.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
Victims must be black because the 15 year old is an adult.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
But we do see less guns in the hands of criminals in countries where there is a gun ban. In a society where everyone is potentially armed why would a criminal not arm themselves.
Honestly the only argument that makes sense to me is that it's too late to do anything about it. And that is a really depressing and defeatist one. It's got to be worth at least trying something, even just stricter regulations.
I honestly think in about fifty years time, when guns are banned in america, you'll look back on this, and will not be able to explain to people why you thought you were actively for gun ownership.
AstroNut325
Member
Because its not some average person buying an illegal weapon.
Sign
Member
Prohibition was about alcohol. A social lubricant, a "mind-altering" substance if you will. The average citizen wants to unwind with friends, in social settings, feel different, etc.
We are talking about devices used to kill. The average citizen either doesn't own a weapon or has never had to use the one they do.
The fact that you are conflating prohibition / war on drugs with guns demonstrates why we need to hit the eject button on this cluster-fuck to begin with.
Any random Joe with a bathtub could make moonshine, manufacturing a weapon and ammo is considerably more difficult.
The average citizen doesn't need a device built to kill. It would be better than today as there would be a dedicated effort in removing weapons from the system.
Other countries would point to no, no it would not increase them. The fact that you are so intent on trying to paint a picture of destruction about getting rid of guns tells us more about your irrationality about guns then anything.
If done correctly, they won't have to. They will sell them to the government of their own volition. And guns are rampant in this country and people are not running out to buy them. You make them illegal to sell first thing then go from there.
Your average citizen doesn't have a gun or use the one they do, cartels aren't going to get shit. When they start selling their wares in Wal-Mart get back to us because until that happens any changes would only be for the better.
Fahrenheit
Banned
From my view a lot of these shooting come from poverty and education issues and not firearm issues. Also think it's gonna get a lot worse before it gets better. Wounder how it be when real unemployment rate is 20 to 30%?
tearsintherain
Member
I like to hope in 50 years time our medical technology will advance to the point where brain imaging technology diagnoses and treats people with sociopathic tendencies at birth, so we can fix the causes of our problems rather than try to bandage the symptoms.
Of course based on recent studies that will also cut down on the number of CEOs in the country, which may not be a bad thing.
AstroNut325
Member
The poverty and education bills are blocked by the people who are major proponents of easy access to funds.
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