7 People — Including 2 Kids — Shot In West Philly (USA)

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TheGeoKing said:
"Why won't it work?"

"Because it won't work."
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How's that war on drugs working out?

When people really want the military, the police, and gangs to be the only people with guns, then it will work. Right now, a majority of people in the U.S. want to be able to own a gun for self-defense. You might make some progress with magazine capacity limits or "assault weapon" regulations from time to time, but you're a million miles away from convincing people they can't at least have a shotgun (weapon used in the crime this thread is about). Heck, Joe Biden endorses the shotgun for home defense. And as for handguns, the Supreme Court has specifically stated we have the right to own those.

It won't work. Maybe someday.
 
AstroNut325 said:
The poverty and education bills are blocked by the people who are major proponents of easy access to funds.
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Care to elaborate? Most education bills are feel good legislation that are objectively harmful. And as far as poverty goes, we got TPP rammed at us that will kill whats left of manufacturing in the country.


Also it be wise if america as a whole start taking mental illness more seriously. Not sure why people got upset when people where calling the SC shooter mentally ill when he clearly is.
 
It's funny that the downfall of this country will most likely be because of people clinging to the first ten amendments. Even though the Constitution was designed as a living breathing document meant to change along with society.

Irony at its best.
 
tearsintherain said:
I like to hope in 50 years time our medical technology will advance to the point where brain imaging technology diagnoses and treats people with sociopathic tendencies at birth, so we can fix the causes of our problems rather than try to bandage the symptoms.

Of course based on recent studies that will also cut down on the number of CEOs in the country, which may not be a bad thing.
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That'd be nice. But I think that might include pretty much everyone. Whether you look to Miligram's experiments, or all those people who helped with the holocaust, the average person is quite capable of committing the most heinous crimes.

Off topic but this week, I thought about for quite a while, whether I was going to use the word psychopath in a paragraph for a short story I was writing. ‘antisocial personality disorder' just doesn't have the ring to it.
 
tearsintherain said:
I like to hope in 50 years time our medical technology will advance to the point where brain imaging technology diagnoses and treats people with sociopathic tendencies at birth, so we can fix the causes of our problems rather than try to bandage the symptoms.

Of course based on recent studies that will also cut down on the number of CEOs in the country, which may not be a bad thing.
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So basically the only answer to quell the amount of violence in your country is to wait for the technology to basically treat EVERYONE?

America is fucked.
 
Bodacious said:
The first gun I ever called "mine" was a 12 gauge bolt-action shotgun given to me by my grandfather. He mail-ordered it out of the Sears-Roebuck catalog when he was 14 years old and it was delivered to his front door. That gun has never harmed anything but quail, squirrel, and rabbits. Every other gun I've ever owned has never done anything but punch holes in paper targets, soda cans, etc. You probably don't want to hear it and you might throw some statistics around to refute it, but the truth is that owning guns doesn't make a person a killer. The type of person with the dead heart it takes to commit crimes such as in the OP will always be able to obtain a gun if they want one. Even if you were able to pass a blanket ban on all types of firearms in the USA, there'll be hundreds of millions of them still on the street after those who follow the law surrender theirs (there won't be many who do). Any attempt at forceful confiscation will turn into a bloody clusterfuck, and you'll be giving rise to a black market with accompanying violence to make prohibition look like a day at the beach. The guns aren't going anywhere, so probably better to start looking at changing the people. Outside of organized crime stuff, this shit wasn't happening in civilian life 80-100 years ago, and they sure as hell all had guns too.

I think we should start with abolishing all prohibitions on recreational drugs, i.e. "the war on drugs." All it does is keep a huge criminal industry funded and competitive.
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So why are there almost no gun related deaths in ...Belgium? Oh wait. No gun culture.
 
Ingueferroque said:
So why are there almost no gun related deaths in ...Belgium? Oh wait. No gun culture.
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I think the obvious answer at this point is that Americans are genetically predisposed to being mentally ill and are more prone to acts of violence. I mean it's obviously the narrative Americans like to push with all their "guns aren't the problem" talk.
 
Why does the normal population need access to such heavy firepower? You have the right to own a firearm? Here is a hunting riffle. Single shot. That it.
 
The war on drugs is not even close to an acceptable analogy for removing guns.

Just get rid of the fucking guns.
 
GaimeGuy said:
A preventable massacre.
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Seriously, it's simple economics.

That's not to say it will be easy in a country with as many guns as this one has.

Step 1) Greatly reduce number of guns in country via voluntary buyback. Also, shut down all gun manufacturers in country.

Step 2) Outlaw all guns and impose strict penalties for owning one.

What will this do other then piss off a bunch of gun advocates? Significantly increase the cost and difficulty to acquire a gun. Once you manage to get rid of the super majority of guns, the black market costs will start to go up. The more pressure that is put by authorities in obtaining illegal guns, the higher the price will go up to a certain point.

Who will this effect the most? Basically, the majority of mass shootings are perpetrated by those who would have difficulty getting or affording a gun. Who will this effect the least? Gangs who have the resources and connections to acquire them, particularly via smuggling. This is also the reason why police will probably be armed for the foreseeable future.

This is why it works in other countries, it's considerably harder and more expensive to get a gun in many other first world countries. Meanwhile, in the US you might just find one on the sidewalk.

What it will take for this change to go into effect is anyone's guess. It won't be easy in any definition of the word, and will require a constitutional amendment amending the 2nd amendment of which was made during what might as well be a different world, for a purpose that no longer has any feasibility.
 
Sign said:
Anybody can try and grow weed / make meth. Until people can manufacture weapons and ammunition on the same scale this comparison is beyond poor.
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There's no need to manufacture anything. Guns and ammo last many, many, many decades. You can buy surplus WWII Russian rifle ammo right now that still works good as new. There are hundreds of millions of guns in the U.S. And hundreds of millions more around the world, and the supply will follow the money.

I mean this is all hypothetical cuz it ain't happening anyway, but there's no supply problem.
 
this summers wild already. seems like gun violence is peaking each summer . last July forth in Chicago was crazy but this year people are really upping the senseless violence early
 
Bodacious said:
There's no need to manufacture anything. Guns and ammo last many, many, many decades. You can buy surplus WWII Russian rifle ammo right now that still works good as new. There are hundreds of millions of guns in the U.S. And hundreds of millions more around the world, and the supply will follow the money.

I mean this is all hypothetical cuz it ain't happening anyway, but there's no supply problem.
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It's up to the government to make it a supply problem. Like it is in other countries where weekly mass shootings (defined as more then 3 people) don't occur.

It's really a decision in that, is it worth it to allow people to own guns freely where the cost is daily senseless deaths?

I no longer think it's worth the cost.

If you know of another method that would allow everyone to keep their guns and reduce gun deaths to levels similar to countries with advanced gun control, I'm all ears. I used to think there was another way, but over the years I've discovered, there really is no other way due to the ability of the human mind to do mental gymnastics at a level that should not be possible.
 
Only sell ammunition to registered people at prices of >50$ a piece. Every other way of obtaining ammo is fined with >50K$. Selling ammo gets you jailed. No amendment needs to change (?), people can have as many weapons as they see fit.

In 20 years people will have used what ammo they had stored. Homeowners will have no more then ten rounds at home to protect themselves. A kid can't easily get ammo (needs to be registered/cost) to shoot up a place on impulse and a hunter has to pay a hundred bucks for the animal he just shot, wich is fair.

Would something like this work?
 
Seriously. Get rid of the guns.

The amendment suited the old days, not modern times.

I'm telling you, other advanced nations are watching and are like WTF USA?

Since our gun cull in Australia many years ago, not one crazy shooting spree.
 
What terrifies me about the US isn't just its lenient gun control...it's also the cultural mentality that romanticises firearm ownership as quintessentially American, a symbol of defiance against the tyranny of government. This was touched on by another Gaf user in the other thread, who posted a photo of one of these billboards. As American as baseball and apple pie:

2048x1322


JgyzTz8.jpg


CHyP1n1UsAAMONH.jpg:large

("$30 gets you everything! Eye/ear protection, pistol or revolver, 50 rounds of ammo, souvenir T-shirt, range pass, instructor")
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I feel like this is going to take a long time to change, sadly.
 
maniac-kun said:
Why does the normal population need access to such heavy firepower? You have the right to own a firearm? Here is a hunting riffle. Single shot. That it.
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Many Americans believe that anyday now the government is going to overstep it's bounds and they need the guns to fight back...

That or they believe Obama is going to reenact slavery

Or that we're coming back for part 2 of the American Revolutionary War.
 
Sign said:
People saying, why bother if someone might, possibly, somehow, one-day, potentially, be able to purchase a gun with laws in place sound like people who are part of the problem to me. Full. Stop.

If this country really wanted to get rid of guns, we could do it. Maybe not all guns, but most. At the very least, it would be expensive and difficult to obtain one.

1) massive buy-back program for all regular citizens.

2) make all production, manufacturing and distribution of fire arms / ammunition illegal.
a) all companies that do this have their current inventory purchased and destroyed.
b) all smaller re-sellers have their inventory purchased and destroyed.

3) make it illegal to purchase, sell, trade and gift fire arms / ammunition
-) this will force more known websites to clamp down on these sort of transactions, along with gun shows, etc.

4) make it illegal to open and conceal carry.

5) people may keep what guns they have at home, but they must be registered.
a) if one is caught with an unregistered fire arm in the house that is a felony / fine and the weapon is confiscated.
b) if the weapon is used in a crime it is confiscated and the owner is held liable, unless it was stolen and reported stolen previously. They are still fined.
-) most people will end up selling their weapons, because why risk it and they haven't used it.

6) any weapon confiscated is destroyed.

7) Profit.

Are you going to have a black market? Of course. But it is going to be for a niche group that is going to have a dwindling supply of weapons. Because here is the thing, a lot of people don't own fire arms and most who do have never had to use them. Hell, the average police officer has never had to discharge their weapon either.

And, unlike prohibition and war on drugs where any asshole can grow weed / make alcohol, making a fire-arm / ammunition is much more difficult.

It will mean people who want to get a gun will have to know how, it will mean needing money to afford the purchase, it will put time between a person "wanting to use a gun" and getting it, etc.

It won't stop everything, but it will be better.
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I approve of this. But I'd also add this to make it a little easier to swallow:

- Hunting rifles (the kind that you have to manually reload every two shots) should still be allowed. There's some areas in the US where you can find bears, and pro-guns people would immedialtely jump on this to try to repeal the whole gun control law.

- Some weapons have value as a collector weapon or as a memento. People should be allowed to keep them, as long that they're rendered permanently inoperable. With pieces removed from the trigger mechanism, and holes drilled through the canon.


But the chances for it to happen, however necessary it is, is rather low. There's just too much irrationality on the other side, and the polarisation of US politics means that what one chunk of the population want, another signifiant chunk will automatically oppose out of sheer knee-jerk reaction.
 
The problem is that the 2-year old didn't have a shotgun to fight back, Americans, your problem isn't that you need gun control, it's that more of your citizens should be armed to fight back these kinds of people.

Pass legislation for children to wield and shoot guns, this never would have happened if it was already in place/ fuck anyone that thinks they don't need gun control
 
Garruson said:
The problem is that the 2-year old didn't have a shotgun to fight back, Americans, your problem isn't that you need gun control, it's that more of your citizens should be armed to fight back these kinds of people.

Pass legislation for children to wield and shoot guns, this never would have happened if it was already in place/ fuck anyone that thinks they don't need gun control
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http://www.theonion.com/article/gorilla-sales-skyrocket-after-latest-gorilla-attac-30860

"SAN DIEGO—Following the events of last week, in which a crazed western lowland gorilla ruthlessly murdered 21 people in a local shopping plaza after escaping from the San Diego Zoo, sources across the country confirmed Thursday that national gorilla sales have since skyrocketed.

“After seeing yet another deranged gorilla just burst into a public place and start killing people, I decided I need to make sure something like that never happens to me,” said 34-year-old Atlanta resident Nick Keller, shortly after purchasing a 350-pound mountain gorilla from his local gorilla store. “It just gives me peace of mind knowing that if I’m ever in that situation, I won’t have to just watch helplessly as my torso is ripped in half and my face is chewed off. I’ll be able to use my gorilla to defend myself.”

“Law enforcement and animal control can only get there so quickly,” Keller added. “And you never know when you’ll need to use a gorilla to save your life.”"

(Should clarify that I know you were being sarcastic, haha.)
 
Gattsu25 said:
What kind of asshole shoots at a crowd?
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Ever been to a hood before? That type of shit happens here more often than it should, resulting in innocent people getting hurt over disputes between two or more people. That said, it's still a tragedy when it happens. Innocent people losing their lives is bullshit. I feel sorry for the families who have to bury their loved ones, and can relate.
 
What would happen if the NRA ceased? Feels like they help stack the cards of meaningful regulation with their "lobbying" to political parties. Shouldn't that kind of shit just be outright banned? I'm sure they do some good, but their interest is getting guns in the hands of people, not lowering circulation.
 
AstroNut325 said:
Isn't this a logical fallacy? How are other countries able to achieve a much lower gun violence per capita?
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The countries that allow citizens to own firearms, even rather powerful ones (like Sweden, I think?) but don't have problems with gun violence have suitable social programs. They do their best to stamp out poverty and inequities - economically and socially. Here in the US we have the GOP and institutional racism and fundamental problems with our prison and justice systems, then blame the poor and disenfranchised when they resort to crime and violence. Aside from cultural issues and our huge population.
 
The Beard said:
Let's ban all guns, right ? That would've kept the shotgun out of this law abiding citizens hands.
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When you don't have guns flowing like water throughout all our cities, yes, it actually does make it harder to get them.

Messypandas said:
What would happen if the NRA ceased? Feels like they help stack the cards of meaningful regulation with their "lobbying" to political parties. Shouldn't that kind of shit just be outright banned? I'm sure they do some good, but their interest is getting guns in the hands of people, not lowering circulation.
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The gun manufacturers would start paying for regular TV ads.
 
Apt101 said:
The countries that allow citizens to own firearms, even rather powerful ones (like Sweden, I think?) but don't have problems with gun violence have suitable social programs. They do their best to stamp out poverty and inequities - economically and socially. Here in the US we have the GOP and institutional racism and fundamental problems with our prison and justice systems, then blame the poor and disenfranchised when they resort to crime and violence. Aside from cultural issues and our huge population.
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Also they don't fucking worship their guns. Someone that is dealing with the onset of depression would be glad to give up their fireearm in sweden for their own safety and that of their loved ones.

Someone in America would be angry and lash out. They'd accuse the government of tyranny at the mere suggestion. They may even forego seeing a doctor out of fear that they would be diagnosed with something that could cause them to lose their firearms.

People in America put the pistol on a pedestal. It's not just a hobby. It's an unhealthy, sick obsession.
 
There are two ways to eventually fix/drastically reduce this problem:

1) Restrict/ban guns.

2) Drastically reduce poverty levels in our country.

I'll let you take a guess which political party is adamantly against both of those.
 
Apt101 said:
The countries that allow citizens to own firearms, even rather powerful ones (like Sweden, I think?) but don't have problems with gun violence have suitable social programs. They do their best to stamp out poverty and inequities - economically and socially. Here in the US we have the GOP and institutional racism and fundamental problems with our prison and justice systems, then blame the poor and disenfranchised when they resort to crime and violence. Aside from cultural issues and our huge population.
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+1. There's a world of difference between the socio-economic climates of America and Sweden. I don't think they should be compared like this. Taking just a small judicial spectrum, lets see America ban capital punishment and reform their prison system as a method of rehabilitation.

Right now we can't even seem tackle rapes in prison and Police from shooting innocents.


Banning guns right now seems a more logical step in the right direction in curbing mass shootings.
 
America, for the love of God and the lives of your people, please do rethink your whole gun policy.

When people talks about gun control, noone is clamouring for removing the guns out of responsible gun owners, but rather about the rest of the people, the "not so responsible" gun owning ones.

Mentally unstable people, convicted criminals and minors (under 21 years old) would be a good start, don't you think? You can still be a huge gun enthusiast and practice your shooting range and hunting skills in places like Germany or Japan.

The only costs to this is that you need to apply a little tad more paperwork, yet the returns of this investment (less gun deaths and violence, less trigger-happy police) are inmense.
 
This is tragic, but all of you using this to rail about about guns need to understand something, even if we had gun reform a shotgun will never be illegal so it would have no impact on this event. And if the gun was illegal it wouldn't matter what the laws were.
 
RoKKeR said:
A shotgun. Fucking hell.

Enough is enough.
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This.

The gun laws in America will never be something I understand/agree with.

No person should be able to carry a gun like that, I even think guns in any form being available to the public is ridiculous but this is a joke.

Stuff needs to change. And before someone says guns aren't to blame.. they are. Things happen anyway but guns make mass killings MUCH easier.

I just find it sad that these people won't be the last :(
 
Ikael said:
When people talks about gun control, noone is clamouring for removing the guns out of responsible gun owners, but rather about the rest of the people, the "not so responsible" gun owning ones.
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There are LOTS of posts arguing for an absolute ban in this thread.

Mentally unstable people, convicted criminals and minors (under 21 years old) would be a good start, don't you think?
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Anyone who has been adjudicated mentally incompetent, convicted of a felony, or under 18 cannot legally purchase a firearm in the US. For handguns, the age is 21. So we already have all that.
 
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