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[clem84]

What kind of graphical fidelity are you guys expecting? I remember someone from SE a few years ago saying that if they were to remake FF7 with FF13 level graphics, the game would cost an insane amount of money to produce and probably wouldn't be profitable. I don't know if that statement would still hold true in regards to PS4. Since the console is more powerful, you don't need to do as much optimizing to produce impressive visuals.

So, can we expect FFX remaster level graphics? Maybe a little better?

 

[OmegaDL50]

I know that having a focus on action won't increase the difficulty. As I said multiple times before, if the difficulty is going to be so easy to the point where the materia customization is pointless outside of the few super bosses, then make the game action to at least give the player more field control and mobility. At least it's more fun actually attacking in an action game than it is to pick the same choice over and over again in an ATB.

And no, it was not the materia that made the game easy. The game is easy by nature and Materia breaks it.

No one said or is implying that you can't have harder ATB/turn-based battles. Of course you can! When done well, they are harder and more satisfying than almost anything an Action game can do. FFVII is not on that list, it does not do it well, and THAT'S the problem. And if they're not addressing the problem (which I doubt they will), then change the system to something at least fun.

Fun is relative.

You may find an action combat system more "fun"

I happen to enjoy the more strategy / menu driven combat systems more "fun"

In the end is simply down to a "preference" that is different.

The Final Fantasy series itself has pretty much predominantly known for their traditional RPG mechanics. Sure the series changes from title to title with various sub systems be it Job Classes, Materia, Espers, Junction, and so forth they still retained a commonality between each game.

Especially for the MAIN numerical installments. FFXIII was the first game to radically change the core mechanics of the series (removal of full party control, statistics and equipment significantly diminished, no back tracking or extremely minimal NPC interaction, less emphasis on story narrative explaining things thoroughly and replacing most of this with the datalog.)

FF7 being one of most if not THE most beloved entry to the series, so if the remake has an incredible undertaking to live up to legacy that has been one the greatest demands in the gaming eye in years.

Trust me when I say a genre shift is something that extremely different from the original game will be scrutinized even more so with a critical gaze, especially from THIS fanbase no less.

 

[Makoto Yuki]

From the interviews with Nomura, it's sounding like they want to make this game even better than the original. I imagine they are gonna go crazy with the graphics. Based on the same interview, Nomura says they are focused on the PS4, so I hope they manage to squeeze all of power out of the system to make the graphics look incredible.

 

[Icyflamez96]

Zippers will be multiplied.

Every zipper procedural

 

[Two Words]

FFXIII is not turn based.

No FF game past III is turn based.

Why do we keep using this term?

If FFXIII isn't turn based, then neither is FFVII.


They are turn based.

 

[Death Penalty]

If FFXIII isn't turn based, then neither is FFVII.


They are turn based.

Agreed, it's just people using some really odd and pedantic semantics. Just because the enemy can take its turn while yours is going does not mean it isn't turn-based.

 

[fallingdove]

I know that having a focus on action won't increase the difficulty. As I said multiple times before, if the difficulty is going to be so easy to the point where the materia customization is pointless outside of the few super bosses, then make the game action to at least give the player more field control and mobility. At least it's more fun actually attacking in an action game than it is to pick the same choice over and over again in an ATB.

And no, it was not the materia that made the game easy. The game is easy by nature and Materia breaks it.

No one said or is implying that you can't have harder ATB/turn-based battles. Of course you can! When done well, they are harder and more satisfying than almost anything an Action game can do. FFVII is not on that list, it does not do it well, and THAT'S the problem. And if they're not addressing the problem (which I doubt they will), then change the system to something at least fun.

What did the trailer say again - ...some will welcome the reunion, others will fear it...?

When I hear people talk about a need to make the game more challenging, more action oriented, i start to worry about the path FF7 will be forced down. Square isn't particularly good at action, nor are they particularly good at challenge. Their competencies rest somewhere in the style, world, and story sections of video game design, and many could argue that they have lost their way in those as well. I would rather a 'true to the original' set of mechanics with a graphic and presentation overhaul than for square to bastardize the classic by further exploring genres that they don't perform well in.

...So keep the turn based battle, keep the materia, keep the leveling rates; but maybe add side dungeons and quests that enrich the world and challenge the fans at each segment of the story. Hell, make the Golden Saucer online optional so that i can challenge friends to updated versions of the mini games and i will be satisfied with the enhancements.

 

[Nightengale]

Square isn't particularly good in action...

Nomura's track record is that of a ARPG director.

I'd personally be a lot less concerned if Nomura was going action than if he had to tread ATB.

 

[Death Penalty]

What did the trailer say again - ...some will welcome the reunion, others will fear it...?

When I hear people talk about a need to make the game more challenging, more action oriented, i start to worry about the path FF7 will be forced down. Square isn't particularly good at action, nor are they particularly good at challenge. Their competencies rest somewhere in the style, world, and story sections of video game design, and many could argue that they have lost their way in those as well. I would rather a 'true to the original' set of mechanics with a graphic and presentation overhaul than for square to bastardize the classic by further exploring genres that they don't perform well in.

...So keep the turn based battle, keep the materia, keep the leveling rates; but maybe add side dungeons and quests that enrich the world and challenge the fans at each segment of the story. Hell, make the Golden Saucer online optional so that i can challenge friends to updated versions of the mini games and i will be satisfied with the enhancements.

Kingdom Hearts I and II, titles directed by the man now directing the VII remake, have the best action RPG combat on the market in my opinion. Likewise, the superbosses in those games are some of the most satisfying challenging experiences I've ever had. I can't agree with either of your two core points, and wonder how you came to these conclusions.

 

[threelights]

Fun is relative.

You may find an action combat system more "fun"

I happen to enjoy the more strategy / menu driven combat systems more "fun"

In the end is simply down to a "preference" that is different.

The Final Fantasy series itself has pretty much predominantly known for their traditional RPG mechanics. Sure the series changes from title to title with various sub systems be it Job Classes, Materia, Espers, Junction, and so forth they still retained a commonality between each game.

Especially for the MAIN numerical installments. FFXIII was the first game to radically change the core mechanics of the series (removal of full party control, statistics and equipment significantly diminished, no back tracking or extremely minimal NPC interaction, less emphasis on story narrative explaining things thoroughly and replacing most of this with the datalog.)

FF7 being one of most if not THE most beloved entry to the series, so if the remake has an incredible undertaking to live up to legacy that has been one the greatest demands in the gaming eye in years.

Trust me when I say a genre shift is something that extremely different from the original game will be scrutinized even more so with a critical gaze, especially from THIS fanbase no less.

Fun is relative, sure. In the end that ends up with no advantage to either side. Action with mindless mashing or turn based with the exact same mindless mashing.

Also, it's not as much of a "radical change" as people are making it out to be, it's not a "genre shift", it's still an RPG. FFVII was not reminded for it's deep strategy options and rewarding battle system. It was reminded for everything else.
FFXIII barely changed things. FFIV brought more changes than XIII by implementing the ATB system...

And the game will be scrutinized no matter what Nomura does, especially from THIS fanbase.

 

[OmegaDL50]

Square isn't particularly good in action...

Nomura's track record is that of a ARPG director.

I'd personally be a lot less concerned if Nomura was going action than if he had to tread ATB.

A Director is just that though, one who just guides the project and oversees everything and making sure the rest of the staff are doing their jobs aligned with the overall vision for the projects goal.

It doesn't mean that the folks who also did extensive programming and coding for the ATB or Traditional FF games aren't doing the heavy developing duties on the program side of things.

I'm sure it's a fair consensus to say as long as this game doesn't end up as FF7: Kingdom Hearts Edition, and retains a level of full party control and retains the freedom of options available to the player, I don't foresee there being issues.

I just hope Nomura doesn't decide to do what he wanted to do with Versus and implement it for 7:R, I don't want FF7:R to a shadow of Versus.

FF7:R should stand on it's own legs as its own thing, and not be a poor mimicry of some other project that never seen the light of day.

 

[Two Words]

Kingdom Hearts I and II, titles directed by the man now directing the VII remake, have the best action RPG combat on the market in my opinion. Likewise, the superbosses in those games are some of the most satisfying challenging experiences I've ever had. I can't agree with either of your two core points, and wonder how you came to these conclusions.

Kingdom Hearts combat is not a satisfying action combat game. I was literally just replaying it now and I do not wa t FFVII to play like this at all.

 

[Death Penalty]

Kingdom Hearts combat is not a satisfying action combat game. I was literally just replaying it now and I do not wa t FFVII to play like this at all.

Couldn't disagree with you more. In my eyes Kingdom Hearts is simply the best in the biz when it comes to action systems.

 

[Skilletor]

I don't want an ff7 where I don't have direct control over every single action of my entire party. Anything less would be horrible.

 

[Two Words]

Couldn't disagree with you more. In my eyes Kingdom Hearts is simply the best in the biz when it comes to action systems.

Best in the biz? What kind of action games have you been playing? KH is fun and does some things right, but it is not some high quality execution of the action genre.

 

[Death Penalty]

Best in the biz? What kind of action games have you been playing? KH is fun and does some things right, but it is not some high quality execution of the action genre.

You name it I've probably played it, and in my opinion as far as action RPGs go Kingdom Hearts reigns king. What would you cite as a better example of an action RPG and what do you feel are Kingdom Hearts' shortcomings?

 

[fallingdove]

Kingdom Hearts I and II, titles directed by the man now directing the VII remake, have the best action RPG combat on the market in my opinion. Likewise, the superbosses in those games are some of the most satisfying challenging experiences I've ever had. I can't agree with either of your two core points, and wonder how you came to these conclusions.

I completely disagree, you fight the camera more than you do the enemies or bosses in Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2. Birth by sleep, I felt, had the best battle system of the bunch and yet it was still style over substance.

Nomura is pretty good at capturing non-controlled cinematic action, that's why I feel that if they took the best of their ATB and let Nomura go wild with a dynamic camera, it could be a nice coat of paint for the game. Anything action oriented means i will only be controlling Cloud for most the game and i will have to fight terribad companion AI like i am going to have to do in FFXV, like i did in Xenoblade, and every other (non-ffxii) action based battle system.

 

[Two Words]

You name it I've probably played it, and in my opinion as far as action RPGs go Kingdom Hearts reigns king. What would you cite as a better example of an action RPG and what do you feel are Kingdom Hearts' shortcomings?

The Witcher 3 is a good recent example. Kingdom Hearts is just extremely limited as far as what it offers. It's really not much of an RPG, honestly. I'd point to Diablo 3 as another recent action RPG that obviously has a different perspective and pacing. Kingdom Hearts has about as much RPG elements as Destiny, which is a problem as far as ARPGs go.

 

[Steel]

You name it I've probably played it, and in my opinion as far as action RPGs go Kingdom Hearts reigns king. What would you cite as a better example of an action RPG and what do you feel are Kingdom Hearts' shortcomings?

I like KH and think it has solid combat, but several Tales of games(particularly Vesperia), Dragon's Dogma, and any Ys(other than I and II) game beat it, imo.

 

[Karkador]

To quote the man himself again:

But the original is out again: The "HD" PC version is coming to PS4 already. We don't need two of the same thing. Even if we beautified and upgraded the visuals -- something that's bound to happen. If it's a full remake, then of course, we want to take a different approach. If we actually just upgraded the visuals -- there'd be no need for me to direct it.

This, exactly this

 

[fallingdove]

You name it I've probably played it, and in my opinion as far as action RPGs go Kingdom Hearts reigns king. What would you cite as a better example of an action RPG and what do you feel are Kingdom Hearts' shortcomings?

Dragon's Dogma for one...

Shitty camera, lack of attack impact, lack of playstyle or attack variation, weapons feel samey except for the 'super moves', enemies lack depth, fights have to be designed around arena style gameplay (probably due to the camera), etc.

 

[TheGreatDirector]

It would be nice to have a poll of people who prefer to have the original turn based system, people who would want an ARPG type game, and people who don't really care.

 

[Two Words]

This, exactly this

That doesn't mean ARPG. That's saying "We're going to fully remake this game as a 2015 game." It's a big assumption to say that means it's going to be an action game. If Nintendo said they were doing a from-the-ground-up remake of Ocarina of Time, that doesn't mean they're going to turn it into a turn-based game.

 

[Death Penalty]

The Witcher 3 is a good recent example. Kingdom Hearts is just extremely limited as far as what it offers. It's really not much of an RPG, honestly. I'd point to Diablo 3 as another recent action RPG that obviously has a different perspective and pacing. Kingdom Hearts has about as much RPG elements as Destiny, which is a problem as far as ARPGs go.

I guess we disagree fundamentally because I would rate the Witcher and Diablo as having serviceable combat at best with their main draws coming from elsewhere. Meanwhile, for me, combat is the core draw of Kingdom Hearts. I'll agree that I would love deeper RPG elements even if I wouldn't call Kingdom Hearts a slouch there- it has a plethora of attacks, spells and areas where Sora can be leveled up and customized. It could use more though for sure, and I think adding something like the materia system would be an excellent fit.

I'm not saying VII should have 1:1 combat with Kingdom Hearts. I hope it doesn't and is its own thing. I'm just saying I have faith in anything Nomura directs when it comes to gameplay.

I like KH and think it has solid combat, but several Tales of games(particularly Vesperia), Dragon's Dogma, and any Ys game beat it, imo.

For me, Tales games don't even come close. I REALLY need to play Dragon's Dogma though. Like, need. I hear so many great things.

 

[Icyflamez96]

every battle system procedural

 

[Steel]

For me, Tales games don't even come close. I REALLY need to play Dragon's Dogma though. Like, need. I hear so many great things.

Tales games are hit or miss in the combat system, it seems. They take some getting used to and they kinda play like 3d fighters, but they've got more depth than any action-rpg system I've played. And yeah Dragon's Dogma is awesome, as much as I hate the remaster trend, that game deserves it more than anything else.

 

[Karkador]

That doesn't mean ARPG. That's saying "We're going to fully remake this game as a 2015 game." It's a big assumption to say that means it's going to be an action game. If Nintendo said they were doing a from-the-ground-up remake of Ocarina of Time, that doesn't mean they're going to turn it into a turn-based game.

I'm not saying it should be, or will be, one thing or another. I'm saying that people should really temper their expectations if they think it's going to be the same ATB thing. Tetsuya Nomura makes a pretty specific kind of game, and it's not that.

 

[fallingdove]

This, exactly this

There are other ways to remake a game than to completely change it. There is so much more that could be done around cinematics, music; fleshing out the world in full 3d. That's why people get so excited about these trailers - it is our childhood imaginations fully realized with a medium that we have watched grow and evolve as we have.

Slapping a sub-par action system together around a familiar set of characters and plot lines doesn't do anything to enhance Final Fantasy VII(1997), it reworks Advent Children to be more interactive.

 

[Two Words]

I'm not saying it should be, or will be, one thing or another. I'm saying that people should really temper their expectations if they think it's going to be the same ATB thing. Tetsuya Nomura makes a pretty specific kind of game, and it's not that.

I don't think people are saying it is going to be the same ATB system. They're saying it will be some kind of ATB system. That doesn't mean they're saying it will be some ATB system that feels like a PS1 game.

 

[Dimmle]

can

we

still

date

barret

 

[fallingdove]

I don't think people are saying it is going to be the same ATB system. They're saying it will be some kind of ATB system. That doesn't mean they're saying it will be some ATB system that feels like a PS1 game.

This. I don't expect Cloud, Tifa, and Barrett to be standing in a row facing 5 enemies in a row on the opposite side... There is a lot that Nomura could do in an ATB system.

 

[Dimmle]

I don't think it's too unlikely that we'll see something like XIII's battle system. Flashy, cinematic, fast-paced, and thoroughly ATB.

 

[Karkador]

This. I don't expect Cloud, Tifa, and Barrett to be standing in a row facing 5 enemies in a row on the opposite side... There is a lot that Nomura could do in an ATB system.

Like turn it into Crisis Core, I guess?

 

[bananafactory]

Amazon just updated my pre-order shipping date from Dec 31, 2017 to January 5, 2017

itshappening.gif

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[fallingdove]

Like turn it into Crisis Core, I guess?

Possibly. Though I think one of the charms of the older final fantasy games is that you can actively switch between characters to manage battle strategies. Crisis Core's battle system would make that difficult.

 

[SomeRandomWeirdGuy]

"If we actually just upgraded the visuals -- there'd be no need for me to direct it."

Just upgrading the audiovisual aspect is all anyone ever wanted. It's what people were calling for for years and now suddenly it needs to be a huge revamp. As a massive Kingdom Hearts fan, this game going ARPG would make me lose all respect for Nomura. ARPGs have their place, and it's not in Final Fantasy VII

If they want it to be more interactive just go the Paper Mario or Lost Odyssey route

 

[Crash Station]

Besides the niche anime stylings, I think JRPGs went into such sharp decline with popular videogame culture because turn-based systems aren't fun compared to other types of videogames. However, lots of action games have experience and other elements that put JRPGs on the map. I mean, they pretty much got eclipsed by modern games, because of how slowly they were evolving.

But console JRPGs pretty much abandoned turn-based altogether by the middle of the PS2 era.

By that logic, they declined because they AREN'T turn-based anymore.

Want to know some of the few successful ones still around? Persona. Want to know what kind of battle system it has? Turn-based.

 

[Nightengale]

The folks handling this "revamp" are still world class game directors, writers and producers. Highly creative people.

I don't see them just being satisfied with audiovisual improvements. Might as well leave it to Toriyama then,since he's a good event director.

 

[Defunkled]

can

we

still

date

barret

This is what I want to know. Easily one of my favorite moments from the original game.

 

[Lindsay]

Spent like 4 hours grinding BP in the Battle Arena... hold O to win? I don't think so!

I hope they keep the Chocobo race cheats >.>

btw FFVII does have some nice non-pre-rendered environments! I looooove the looks of both Chocobo race tracks, and the the Snowboarding courses!

 

[Dimmle]

This is what I want to know. Easily one of my favorite moments from the original game.

I need this game to still be as weird as the original. You can have your Sephiroth siblings and Zack and expanded universe bloat, I just want to go on a date with Barret. Part of this game's identity was excised in the years leading up to this announcement and I hope Nomura and co still realize what makes it special is not Cloud in a wheelchair.

 

[Karkador]

But console JRPGs pretty much abandoned turn-based altogether by the middle of the PS2 era.

By that logic, they declined because they AREN'T turn-based anymore.

Want to know some of the few successful ones still around? Persona. Want to know what kind of battle system it has? Turn-based.

As far as I remember, the most popular JRPGs in the PS2 and Gamecube era were action-based, though they weren't common. KH and Tales of Symphonia were huge.

As for Persona, ehh...I gather that the Persona games are popular because of everything but its battle system, which is pretty generic. The dungeon crawl through the tower is also a horrendous grind.

 

[Crash Station]

As far as I remember, the most popular JRPGs in the PS2 and Gamecube era were action-based, though they weren't common. KH and Tales of Symphonia were huge.

As for Persona, ehh...I gather that the Persona games are popular because of everything but its battle system, which is pretty generic. The dungeon crawl through the tower is also a horrendous grind.

If you're going to argue Persona isn't popular for it's battle system, you could say the same about Symphonia, which had a heavy marketing push on a platform devoid of any kind of JRPGs in a relatively empty time of the year all around.

KH was also a combination of a large property and a massive entertainment entity that carved out its own identity due to, once again, things outside its battle system, which I'd call more generic than Persona's variation of Press Turn.

Stuff like DQ 8 was far more prominent than Tales, even outside of Japan. I believe even Suikoden 3 did around the same numbers as Symphonia in the west. On the action side, Star Ocean 3 also did pretty good, but Tales of the Abyss absolutely bombed.

And if you want to talk about how well turn-based stuff beyond that did, Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon outsold Symphonia in the west by quite a bit IIRC, though I'm not sure if they passed SO3. Either way, I'm fairly certain they outsold nearly every other non-Final Fantasy console JRPG that gen.

 

[The Jason]

I pretty much addressed everything you said in the post you're quoting...

I'm glad you have fun with the game, but it doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of battles are won by just doing nothing but attacking over and over again. There's a world of difference between an accessible game and a game that poses no challenge whatsoever outside of a small handful of fights.

And no, speeding up fights will not satisfy people that want an action game. ATB and Action are fundamentally different games that have completely different focus.

I would rather not satisfy the crowd that wants an action game. In my opinion it takes far more intelligence and forethought to play a turn based game. If you want a more stretegic game, then we're in agreement there.

 

[Skilletor]

As far as I remember, the most popular JRPGs in the PS2 and Gamecube era were action-based, though they weren't common. KH and Tales of Symphonia were huge.

As for Persona, ehh...I gather that the Persona games are popular because of everything but its battle system, which is pretty generic. The dungeon crawl through the tower is also a horrendous grind.

Final Fantasy 10 and 10-2? Dragon Quest? Lol. Those games probably outsold every other rpg on ps2 combined. (exaggeration, obviously, but I'm sure they sold better than any of their counter parts)

And 10hd has sold remarkably well... So, yeah people still like turn based. Not even taking into account pokemon, dragon Quest, persona, etc.

 

[Dark_castle]

Well at least I don't think they will make only playable Cloud and AI everyone else, when there are moments where Cloud is out of the party. Unless they change all that to cutscene, that would be very lame.

 

[enigmatic_alex44]

You know what, the mini games are cute and I hope they keep them around, I can skip the ones I don't like (such as Chocobo Racing)... but one thing I really hope they remove is that awful Golden Chocobo breeding. Spending hours on this terrible side-quest to get KOTR is NOT my idea of fun. I really hope it's removed and a better, more fun way to obtain KOTR is included. I dread the idea of ever doing that nonsense again.

Also, they need to make some of the missable, major story stuff mandatory for progress. So many people missed out on huge, important chunks of the story such as the Zack flashbacks, Lucrecia's cave, Yuffie, & Vincent in the original FF7. It would improve the experience for a lot of new players if this stuff was required to progress through the game or they'd miss some really important parts of the experience.

Agree? Disagree?

 

[duckroll]

Regarding the "action RPG" debate, Nomura mentioned in this week's Famitsu interview that the game system will be different, but he can't give specifics right now. But he does drop a hint by saying that it will be an "immersive gameplay system". Take that as you will.

He also says that the proper title for the remake will be revealed the next time they have news on the game, which should be some time this winter. They will not be using Advent Children models for the game, and all the character designs have been completed by him and Roberto Ferrari.

 

[Zane]

Regarding the "action RPG" debate, Nomura mentioned in this week's Famitsu interview that the game system will be different, but he can't give specifics right now. But he does drop a hint by saying that it will be an "immersive gameplay system". Take that as you will.

Fucking hell. The exact reason I've hated every FF since IX is because they got rid of the ATB.

 

[Green Mamba]

I can't wait for Cait Sith's AI to fuck up healing me in the middle of a battle.