Yes, seriously. It's horrifying that there are people dieing in the 21st century because of a medieval ideology started by a warmonger pedophile.
Man decapitated at company near Grenoble, France, Islamist flag found on site
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Yes, seriously. It's horrifying that there are people dieing in the 21st century because of a medieval ideology started by a warmonger pedophile.
timetokill
Banned
So, what can be done to stop this?
Additionally, when you accept – really accept – the not-so-radical core belief that this life is only a prelude to the actually important life in paradise, and that your main concern should be to do everything to earn your entrance into paradise, you just stop giving a shit about your life and everybody else's life, including your countrymen's, on this earth.
Following this logic, provoking war then becomes the morally right thing to do.
Stereogatari
Banned
Well it's the irony of ironies. In the 19th century the original incarnation of Saudi Arabia was destroyed by the Turkish Empire (who were the "official" legislators of Islam at the time and much more amenable to European style reform) because they were deemed too extreme, but with Western help the Saudis were allowed to revive and gain independence from Turkey. As you say, all because of that sweet sweet black gold and also in order to weaken the Turkish Empire. Which in turn lead to Saudis gaining the legitimacy and resources to export their crap across the Muslim World, their aim presumably being to achieve geopolitical power as the "leaders" of the Sunni bloc. A side effect of which has been modern day Islamist terrorism, which is something the West are fighting. So it all comes around full circle and it's ridiculous.
I'm an Atheist, but I must say Mohamad was a great man. No different than figures like Alexander the Great. You have to be intelligent to create an Empire. Boiling him down to "pedophile warmonger" is quite a simple-minded thing to say. You could say that about numerous figures that Western culture idolises, like the aforementioned Alexander the Great.
Killing innocent people and constantly trying to start shit is ensuring their entrance into hell.
Good question. This is a war of violence, that has to be fought with violence yet can't bewon with it. It's as important to strike IS and all terrorists organisatios down as it is to bring edication and tolerance to the world. We can't kill an ideology with guns and really that is the true enemy here.
I completely agree and maybe even for their time Mohammad and Alexander the Great were benevolent and less violent than their peers. But fortunately for us the world changed and we're a much less violent society now so in comparison they are very violent and warmongers with todays standards.
We shouldn't idolize Mohammad anymore than we do Alexander the Great or Columbus
BrassDragon
Member
The single best stategy for preventing jihadist terrorism is having reliable and willing sources in the muslim community to give you early warning. From a purely stategic perspective (not to mention common human decency), the last thing you want to do is alienate and ostracize them.
Countries who don't do this have become completely dependent on bulk collection, coercion and electronic surveillance because their human intelligence game is hopeless.
Not according to their beliefs
Yes, but – as I am often told – religious doctrine, including the definition of an innocent, is open to interpretation, and who are we to impose our interpretation of Islamic doctrine onto them.
I don't disagree with your point regarding the killing of innocents, but that doesn't change that this core belief in the supremacy of death over life is a major motivator and problem regardless. The reason why people turn to such ideologies might be more complex, but the reasons that make them commit these attacks without flinching are beliefs like this one.
Calling all of Islam intolerant is garbage? Excuse me? Does the religion accept homosexuals? No? Then it's intolerant and fuck intolerance.
Stereogatari
Banned
Well said. We can respect them for the role they played in history, but not against todays standards and we can be selective between their actions. The Ancient Greek intellectuals, that the West bases itself on, didn't live in some Secular uptopia. They were the marginals in largely backwards and superstitious societies and they themselves believed in some of the superstitions.
Dan Carlin has asked this provoking but interesting question whether people in some thousand years will look at people like Hitler and think about them similarly to how we think about Alexander the Great today. Both were violent warmongers after all.
Yes, idolizing such figures uncritically is a really bad thing.
Nothing that is politically feasible, to my mind. Education is too slow, and most other options are off the table.
I guess a powerful, hungry, and ruthless right wing government could meet fire with fire and engage in terrorising the community as a whole, but we'd all get burned as a result.
People on here always conflate 'Islam' with 'Muslim'. They don't see that you're speaking on beliefs, they think you're attacking people.
MarkMclovin
Member
Unfortunately things like this are just going to keep happening until the root of this problem is solved. Which I doubt it ever will.
Solving the root of the problem would mean making all religions go away.
That is never going to happen.
Homosexuality is a sin in Islam but so is pre-marital sex (a far greater sin, actually). That doesn't mean that all Muslims are intolerant towards homosexuals, just as they are not all intolerant to fornicators. As far as I am concerned, other people do not follow the same rules as I and that is not my business. I don't appreciate randomly being called intolerant.
There seems to be a misunderstanding because that is not what happened at all.
eerik9000
Member
Obligatory:
Translation: Somewhere in Middle-East:
They got me...
72 virgins are waiting for you in heaven!
Hey there, that's very offensive to Trekkies and Linux enthusiasts!
Wait Mohamad is great because Alexander the Great was a "great" man?
First of all, Alexander the Great is a very DARK figure of the human civilization, and if there is only one way describe him, that would be bloodthirsty, power-hungry tyrant!!!
He invaded and conquered other nations from his own selfish reasons, in fact, he is responsible for the first genocide in history.
I'm always dumbfounded when Islam gets a pass on it's deeply ingrained misogyny.
That's a first (the decapitation thing) in france, and it's a new step in a world where this sort of isolated barbarian act becomes the habit in occidental world, and the paranoia toward muslims and the feeling to be in some sort of "war" develops.
The day people in France think "let's go out today and hopfully not being decapitated or bombed in the bus", is not that far.
That's a fucking cancer that will destroy the society, in a context of crisis, poverty, lack of trust in politics, everywhere in Europe... I can somewhat feel that path in History will be a huge back step.
The day people in France think "let's go out today and hopfully not being decapitated or bombed in the bus", is not that far.
That's a fucking cancer that will destroy the society, in a context of crisis, poverty, lack of trust in politics, everywhere in Europe... I can somewhat feel that path in History will be a huge back step.
michaelius
Banned
Religions aren't problem. One particular religion is.
The problem is also huge number of people who get enough social funds by breeding children to live above poverty levels - and those people have way too much time to spend on thinking about their empty lives so they turn towards extremism to have easy solution to get meaning of their live.
It really does though. You're proving his point by defending yourself against an attack that never happened.
ehhh... no.
Ignorance.
I wonder who "those" people are....
Not really. His post basically says that ISIS is an extreme intolerance but at the end of the day Muslims are intolerant. Tell me, how else am I supposed to take that?
Really? That particular religion has hundreds of its followers dying every day fighting ISIS and AlQuaeda, while your governments are funneling TOW missiles to AlQuaeda in Syria (Nusra front) to topple the Syrian regime. We're the ones who are actually fighting the extremists and dying while you sit comfortably living your easy life. Just today a suicide bomber blew up a Shia mosque in Kuwait killing dozens, but woe is me a single westerner got killed in France so no one will give a damn.
I can think of a lot more problems than one particular religion, colonialism, hegemony, supporting tyrants and dictatorships, supporting extremists.
Coriolanus
Banned
One does not prevent the other. Your mark on history is the greater concern. Which is why the romans, who also slew an absurd number of people, can be seen as an impressive achievement. The same goes for Genghis Khan, most likely the greatest monster humanity has ever produced.
But sure, one can always simply point out that Alex most likely wouldn't have achieved even half of what he had achieved had he not lucked about immensely by just happening to be the son of Philip II, who was a far more badass mofo.
I know his is a news worthy story and a tragic story for the people involved etc, but by constantly reporting and highlighting these events aren't we encouraging the terrorist groups to continue? I'm not saying that sweeping it under he carpet is the best thing to do but to keep legitimising the terrorist groups by giving them air time doesn't seem right?
So, you only have to turn two pages in the Quran to read about what you should do with the nonbelievers. You don't have to twist or turn things to get to that "commandment".
Ratings bring in revenue and money is more important than humanity.
Please find me these pages.
ManUnkindH
Member
If I were to compare nowadays humanity with a person's age, I would say we're still sucking on momy's titties rather than being mature and grownup. Yes, we are that stupid and the events from today are living proof. We won't see first grade school in our life time. Far from it!
Kiever Sher
Member
Tourist hotel in Tunisia has been attacked also, probably not connected but might be one of those days.
I personally always felt humanity is not meant to grow up. It's an illusion. It'll just be an eternal wave between progress and coming back to medieval age, which we're on the path to.
What, now? Any source on that? Can't find anything
Alx
Member
I've heard that extremists usually get a bit more excited during Ramadan.
Is that doubt? Go ahead and pick it up and read it for yourself. Sure, in the Quran i read it was only two pages from the start, in yours it may be five or whatever. It's there nonetheless and it doesn't stop mentioning throughout what you should do with nonbelievers, christians etc. If you won't convert it's either being a slave under sharia or be put to death.
Kiever Sher
Member
It was just on Sky News as I posted, no details as of yet though. Security guy on there said it's a familiar tactic to set off a few attacks at once but not usually in different countries.
French fire fighters carry guns? Or how did he kill him?
»O you who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guides not a people unjust.« —Quran 5:51
»Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies« —Quran 8:60
»O prophet! Strive hard against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be harsh against them. Their abode is hell, and an evil destination it is.« —Quran 9:73
When it comes to terror attacks against people, it all boils down to your definition of an enemy and an innocent. And I would agree that the killing of at least women and children is not compatible with Islamic doctrine. Nevertheless, it would be far-retched to claim that Islamic doctrine cannot be easily read such that it supports, and even commands, violence against 'unbelievers'. The often voiced counter-argument that these verses only apply to situations of defense in war are unconvincing.
It apparently is easy to convince a sizable number of people to interpret Islamic doctrine that way.
They don't, guessing with an axe or something
Keyser Soze
Member
Tunisia is ongoing right now. Gunfire on a beach(but no fatalities). Many people have locked themselves inside a hotel.
There is a man on Sky News talking live from the hotel. The Sky News reporter is asking man to go to window to look and see what is happening. That seems like THE WORST IDEA EVER.
There is a man on Sky News talking live from the hotel. The Sky News reporter is asking man to go to window to look and see what is happening. That seems like THE WORST IDEA EVER.
Acidote
Member
I don't even know what to say about this badass guy. Only that I'm sorry that the firefighter had to do it.
air jordans for dogs
Member
Firefighters are badasses
No idea, the French Secretary of the Interior is holding a speech where he said that one of the suspects were killed by a firefighter, so either with his hands, the car or an axe, no idea.
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