Gay marriage salt thread

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Aces&Eights said:
Hey guys, I work for a local clerks office (One that has been issuing same sex marriage licenses for over a year) so I thought I would chime in on the process.

Prior to the change, the certificates were all formatted for a man and a woman. Basically, it had "groom" and "bride" listed for the two people. The marriage license allows you to get married and that is verified by having you both, your officiants and two wittinesses sign a marriage certificate. This is basically the contract part and the one the state archives and gives you a certified copy of so you have proof of marriage. (The license is actually retained by your offiiciant after the wedding.)

Anywho, being the certificate is a state form, the state has to make fundamental changes to it so it can be used by same sex couples. Considering hetro and same sex are both considered marriages, it is prudent to use one form as there is now no difference in the two getting married. Some things had to be altered; I.E. adding "spouse" to the options where bride and groom were available to check for what you want to be referred to on the certificate. Changing he/she to include he/he and she/she as well.

So, the Department of Health (in our case) had an emergency meeting after my state ruled to allow same sex marriages and made a new form to accommodate everyone. This took about 30 days. That being, for them to create a whole new certificate, change the computer program to work with it and then issue the certificate to all the counties and get their systems changed over to be able to print the new form with all the new and correct language.

So, I tell you all this so that if you are in a state that previously did not recognize same same marriages and today, after the ruling, you are planning to go on in and buy a license, I urge you to call ahead to make sure your state wasn't like mine (Washington State) in that it took a month to get forms to use from the Dept of Health. The clerks are at the mercy of the state in most cases when it comes to forms to use. The state typically has one form to use for people who get married and each clerk issues it on behalf of the state. Until the state amends the current certificate and gets it out there, there is not much a county clerk can do. Obviously, YMMV but from what I understand, the process is pretty similar in each state.

Regardless, congrats to everyone who has been fighting for equality! History was made yesterday, and this is something that we will be able to tell future generations about. Voices can and will be heard!
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Thanks for the informative post. There are certainly bureaucratic mechanisms in place for folks who want to delay implementation.
 
shem935 said:
I don't get this. We need to be tolerant of people who think homosexuality is the devils work and the ultimate sin and sought to disenfranchise and ridicule them for generations until now they finally get there moment in the sun?

Should I also be respectful of people I know who are avowed racists?

"I don't like black people"

"Well I guess since I must respect your opinion then that's that, wouldn't want to be a bigot after all"
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Some people take their opinions to the extreme no doubt. What you are talking about is the extreme, lets be honest here. I've been around openly gay people at work and at my Church for ages now, the people who scream " your going to hellllllllllll " are usually pretty old or in an incredibly strict Church who think 99% of us are going to hell for some reason or another. Or they just have their own issues to deal with. Because lets be honest, unless you are very religious there is no reason you had issues with LBGT in the first place. If you did and you weren't religious ... hmmm ...

And that is due to Leviticus 20:13
If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
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And 1st Corinthians
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (NIV, 1st Corinthians 6:9-11)
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Thats the root of a religious persons thoughts on all things homosexual. So atleast for them, their is a root for their thoughts. Other people? Who knows.
 
Aces&Eights said:
[Highly informative post.]
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Yeah, I just checked out what Texas is doing and they're basically using the "need new forms" and "waiting for official word from the state government" excuses as means to hold out as long as possible.

Edit: Should clarify I only checked Lubbock, Texas.
 
Oh man, the salt on YouTube is hilarious. Nothing but a bunch of idiots screaming about AIDS and posting random quotes from the bible about the end times.

I want a rainbow wing! If possible anyways.
IB12fAV.jpg
 
crisdecuba said:
So much hate. Good that they're banned, and I hope that somehow this mindset is transformed.
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Re: transforming mindset

I agree with the arguments about bigot-shaming and shaming by bigots to be fundamentally different, but it does not seem constructive to shame anyone. If you really want to get under their skin, and you really want to challenge their view of the world, you have to treat them with the respect and kindness they never had toward you. Behaving confrontationally, while cathartic, furthers the divide, which benefits no one.

Bigotry is a ridiculous consequence of humanity, and bigoted ideals deserve to be ridiculed and torn down. It's when attacks turn against people that I get uncomfortable. When these attacks are justified as "a taste of their own medicine," I get more uncomfortable still.
 
Hyrule Warrior said:
I hope just saying this doesn't put me into too much of a negative light. I think this is awesome that this happened. I'm all for freedom, and I think people have the right to love whoever they want to, and to marry who they want to.

What does it say about me though that I think homosexual sexual behavior to be kinda gross though? =/ I'm not even one of those guys who gets off on watching 2 women, but I do admit that I could probably watch them easier than seeing 2 men. It's not a conscious thing really either, it's just a reaction that my mind thinks is gross :(

I'm afraid it makes me seem bigoted when consciously I don't want to be.
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Eh, in my opinion everyone falls differently on the scale, maybe you are just completely on the straight end of the scale.

I consider myself gay and i'm really attracted to guys, but seeing lesbian porn doesn't turn me off at all, so I would consider myself on the gay side of the scale but not completely at the extreme end.

1435386200519.png


Everyone is different and has different thresholds. There probably is some mental conditioning going on there where you automatically see it as "gross" rather than simply not being into it, but I don't think it really says anything about your personal thoughts on the matter.
 
Crunched said:
Re: transforming mindset

I agree with the arguments about bigot-shaming and shaming by bigots to be fundamentally different, but it does not seem constructive to shame anyone. If you really want to get under their skin, and you really want to challenge their view of the world, you have to treat them with the respect and kindness they never had toward you. Behaving confrontationally, while cathartic, furthers the divide, which benefits no one.
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The LGBT community and its supporters are still high from this recent victory, and as Amir0x said earlier, we deserve this moment of jubilation. I agree that this thread isn't socially constructive but currently, who gives a damn? It's a celebration that isn't harming anyone. At worst, it's offending people who were already offended by the simple existence of homosexuals to begin with.

I'm glad you're not equating the actions of bigots with the act of ridiculing them.
 
IAmRandom31 said:
Some people take their opinions to the extreme no doubt. What you are talking about is the extreme, lets be honest here. I've been around openly gay people at work and at my Church for ages now, the people who scream " your going to hellllllllllll " are usually pretty old or in an incredibly strict Church who think 99% of us are going to hell for some reason or another. Or they just have their own issues to deal with. Because lets be honest, unless you are very religious there is no reason you had issues with LBGT in the first place. If you did and you weren't religious ... hmmm ...

And that is due to Leviticus 20:13

And 1st Corinthians

Thats the root of a religious persons thoughts on all things homosexual. So atleast for them, their is a root for their thoughts. Other people? Who knows.
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So? We don't
or shouldn't
tolerate moderate racism either. I still don't get this argument. One side of the opinion is objectively, morally, legally, and logically wrong. Yet we should tolerate those views? No. That is how we as a country have ended up with such an undercurrent of institutionalized racism. We let opinions lie and refused to call out examples of racism. This ruling is a step forward but for future acceptance to take hold societal norms need to be broken down and built back up. That starts with condemning these opinions that you would protect from scrutiny.
 
Hyrule Warrior said:
I hope just saying this doesn't put me into too much of a negative light. I think this is awesome that this happened. I'm all for freedom, and I think people have the right to love whoever they want to, and to marry who they want to.

What does it say about me though that I think homosexual sexual behavior to be kinda gross though? =/ I'm not even one of those guys who gets off on watching 2 women, but I do admit that I could probably watch them easier than seeing 2 men. It's not a conscious thing really either, it's just a reaction that my mind thinks is gross :(

I'm afraid it makes me seem bigoted when consciously I don't want to be.
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It makes you straight. I'm a huge LGBT supporter, been donating to HRC for ages, was jubilant all day yesterday, and I find it gross too. And I've heard my gay friends discuss vaginas, which they consider the grossest thing ever.
 
AmethystEnd said:
The LGBT community and its supporters are still high from this recent victory, and as Amir0x said earlier, we deserve this moment of jubilation. I agree that this thread isn't socially constructive but currently, who gives a damn? It's a celebration that isn't harming anyone. At worst, it's offending people who were already offended by the simple existence of homosexuals to begin with.

I'm glad you're not equating the actions of bigots with the act of ridiculing them.
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This thread has its place and I'm glad it exists. It's good to laugh at this stuff, and even better the reason we have for laughing.
 
Crunched said:
Re: transforming mindset

I agree with the arguments about bigot-shaming and shaming by bigots to be fundamentally different, but it does not seem constructive to shame anyone. If you really want to get under their skin, and you really want to challenge their view of the world, you have to treat them with the respect and kindness they never had toward you. Behaving confrontationally, while cathartic, furthers the divide, which benefits no one.
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I very much agree that shaming doesn't help, and I agree with your point generally. Confrontation, though, can take the form of positive and constructive action -- not just shaming. I say this because often the valid call to respond with respect and kindness is packaged together with passivity -- and I disagree with passivity.

Edit: Of course, I understand you made the comment in the context of this thread, which may make my comment an unnecessary clarification. :)
 
IAmRandom31 said:
The only thing I care about is bigots calling other people bigots and people being giant hypocrits. The LGBT community isn't the only one in the world who has been " oppressed " during the history of this world. But they are likely one of the few who openly throw stones at the very people that threw stones at them and for the exact same reasons the stones were thrown in the first place.

See my point? Its hypocritical, and shows them to be bigots themselves. I'm all for celebration, as I've recently called my aunt who came out 10 years ago in front of a very religious family, to congratulate as she will be wedding the woman she loves after being together for 8 years now. Celebration is expected. But openly antagonizing people and spitting on people makes you no better then the people who did the spitting before. Now, let me iterate, I'm mostly talking about those who quietly had issues with the situation due to religious reasons or something like that. The people who were hateful toward people of the gay community simply but being that way, they have their own demons to deal with no doubt. Still don't think anyone deserves open mocking and ridicule though. I've known people on both sides of the equation, having grown up the way I have and where I have.

Bigotry is not a one way street, even if it is justified on some levels.

But hey, thanks for trying to act like you know anything about me or my thoughts on the subject there Amir0x. I'm happy more people are happy in this country. From the looks of this thread, a lot more people need to be happy. Be happy, not hateful. All I'm saying.
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This is just the "if you don't tolerate intolerance you're intolerant" argument but you're substituting intolerance with bigot. The argument is still nonsense. Also, no one said or acts like the LBGT community is the only oppressed group in the world. Why even mention it? I don't get the part about them being more likely to throw stones back for the same reasons or whatever, either. That makes no sense.
 
IAmRandom31 said:
The world bigot has a definition you know.l
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As does the word tolerance. You're falling into the fallacious thinking of "people who are intolerant of intolerance, are intolerant".

This assumes that totally uncritical tolerance is desirable. There's a distinction between being tolerant and blind moral relativism, and it is perfectly reasonable to say that it is not desirable to be perfectly tolerant of every single thing. Extremism rarely bodes well for anybody.
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Aces&Eights said:
There are always going to be people who are filled with hate. I see it everyday. One of the truly sad things about it is it comes from people who proclaim to love God. I grew up in a faith based environment and believe in God but I believe he is a God of love. For all creatures. It makes me sick to see the right wing conservatives bash and condemn two people in love all the while committing their own sins every day. It's close-minded, disingenuous of Gods message and comes from a place of hate and evil. I just try to forgive them as I am forgiven for the stupid shit I have done in my life.

There are just people who are stuck in the past. Racism still exists. Homophobia still exists, sexism still exists. It is an unfortunate part of the world we live in but we cannot be scared or taken back by it. We need to keep fighting for what is right and shining the light on those who would subdue us. No man or woman should judge another. It is our place to love and support our neighbors, even if we don't agree philosophically with them. We are all brothers and sisters. We are all human beings.
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Well said, I share the same sentiment towards those who are said to be the ones preaching and doing Gods will, how can they twist something so pure about kindness and love into a spite filled frenzy hatred, I guess it's just a way for them to justify their own rotten views.

And while I don't practice any religion, It's always lovely to see someone who does speaking with the voice of reason.
 
crisdecuba said:
I very much agree that shaming doesn't help, and I agree with your point generally. Confrontation, though, can take the form of positive and constructive action -- not just shaming. I say this because often the valid call to respond with respect and kindness is packaged together with passivity -- and I disagree with passivity.

Edit: Of course, I understand you made the comment in the context of this thread, which may make my comment an unnecessary clarification. :)
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I disagree with passivity, too. I wasn't clear on what I meant by confrontation. And I don't mean to say there is no place to lampoon or criticize. Humor is one of the most powerful tools we have for discrediting hate. Then there are people like drt, who immediately embarrass themselves and invalidate their opinions, with no need for us to assist.
 
So much salt. I love that Fox News interview with that guy who was like "the court can't redefine marriage." I mean, if they truly believe marriage is a purely religious institution, I vote was eliminate marriage as a state-sponsored thing, as that whole separation of church and state thing is pretty important.
Then again, these are the people who claim the US is a "Christian nation." No, this is a free nation, which means you get to believe what you want, I get to believe what I want, and we should be able to respect that at the end of the day. What a bunch of whiny kiddy baby whiners.
 
Like, to each their own, if gays want to marry then that's fine by me. But seeing the GAF logo change now? That's like the prime example of shoving things down out throats, no pun intended. I'm happy for them, but come on.
 
IAmRandom31 said:
Bigot: a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.
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Actually, the definition of a bigot is:

bigot (plural bigots)

One who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.

or

One who is strongly partial to one's own group (e.g. religion, race, gender, political party, etc.) and is intolerant of those who differ.

Source: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bigot

I would not say enjoying the salty tears of the anti gay crowd falls under either category.

If you're going to invoke the definition of a word, at least look it up first!
 
Regginator said:
Like, to each their own, if gays want to marry then that's fine by me. But seeing the GAF logo change now? That's like the prime example of shoving things down out throats, no pun intended. I'm happy for them, but come on.
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Am I being Poe'd or
 
Regginator said:
Like, to each their own, if gays want to marry then that's fine by me. But seeing the GAF logo change now? That's like the prime example of shoving things down out throats, no pun intended. I'm happy for them, but come on.
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Seriously?

Also, you act like the logo change is a permanent thing. If a temporary celebration offends you, then you can choose to not visit for awhile.

Do you also feel like Google is "shoving" history "down your throat" when its logo changes to commemorate a historical event or important person?
 
Crunched said:
Am I being Poe'd or
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I'm afraid I don't get the reference.

AmethystEnd said:
Seriously?

Also, you act like the logo change is a permanent thing. If a temporary celebration offends you, then you can choose to not visit for awhile.

Do you also feel like Google is "shoving" history "down your throat" when its logo changes to commemorate a historical event or important person?
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That's the thing. Celebrating something that's supposed to be as normal as day. I suppose it's just me then.
 
Regginator said:
Like, to each their own, if gays want to marry then that's fine by me. But seeing the GAF logo change now? That's like the prime example of shoving things down out throats, no pun intended. I'm happy for them, but come on.
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How dare this privately owned website display a message of support for marriage equality.
 
gutter_trash said:
now do you guys see the importance of having a Democrat in the Whitehouse who appoints Liberal justices to the Supreme Court?

think about today's ruling very carefully the next time you people say that Jeb and Hillary are the same
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This is why I always vote.
 
Regginator said:
Like, to each their own, if gays want to marry then that's fine by me. But seeing the GAF logo change now? That's like the prime example of shoving things down out throats, no pun intended. I'm happy for them, but come on.
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The logo is just rainbow. It's not like it has changed to dicks touching other dicks.

We are celebrating that people have freedom to love whomever and marry whomever, regardless of what sex they may be. Isn't that worth celebrating?
 
Regginator said:
Like, to each their own, if gays want to marry then that's fine by me. But seeing the GAF logo change now? That's like the prime example of shoving things down out throats, no pun intended. I'm happy for them, but come on.
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Sorry, but I'm not sure this is the community for you if you think temporarily changing the site's logo to celebrate marriage equality constitutes "shoving things down [your] throat."
 
Regginator said:
I'm afraid I don't get the reference.



That's the thing. Celebrating something that's supposed to be as normal as day. I suppose it's just me then.
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Yeah. "supposed to be as normal as day". And yet it hadn't been. Until literally yesterday.

Wonder why people are celebrating.
 
RPGCrazied said:
Wow, what is wrong with people? People that say stuff like that to me seem mentally ill.
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He's either gone crazy or he'll be proving himself the hypocrite he probably is. Christianity forbids suicide so if he voluntarily exits life knowing he's committing a big sin to protest what he considers a big sin then he's just couldn't handle reality and became undone. Either way, it's all probably for the best. If it wasn't Gay marriage, it would have been something else he wasn't able to mentally deal with.
 
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