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SCOTUS strikes down gay marriage bans, legalizing marriage equality nationwide

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Two questions here:

Exactly what's the difference between a constitutional and a statutory ban? I though constitutional = federal? Or do states also have constitutions that they can choose to put this kind of legislation in?
They're talking about states' constitutions here.
Constitutional mean the constitution was amended to ban gay marriage, statutory it means that they just passed a law banning it.
And, am I reading this right in that it wasn't banned pretty much anywhere until the mid nineties and then states started banning it as a response to when the LGBT movement started picking up steam in demanding same sex marriages?
It wasn't explicitly banned, but it wasn't being performed, in the 90s gay people started filing lawsuits so they could get married (see: Baehr v. Miike) and the explicit bans were mostly done in response to such moves.
 
Two questions here:

Exactly what's the difference between a constitutional and a statutory ban? I though constitutional = federal? Or do states also have constitutions that they can choose to put this kind of legislation in?

And, am I reading this right in that it wasn't banned pretty much anywhere until the mid nineties and then states started banning it as a response to when the LGBT movement started picking up steam in demanding same sex marriages?

Think of each state as basically a smaller version of the Federal govt. They each have a Constitution, a house and a senate and a governor who oversees the entire state. They also have their own version of the Supreme Court which performs the same function as the federal one, just for state laws.
 
States have their own constitutions as well as their own legislatures.

And yes, much like the Confederate flag didn't become popular until the Civil Rights Movement, same-sex marriage bans didn't become popular until the significant advancement of gay rights.
There was an uptick of bans after the 2004 election, where it was one of the larger social issues debated.
 
From the world of sports, Vikings CB Josh Robinson:

Josh Robinson ✔@JROB_2one
Love is love? So what will we say when the 30yr old loves YOUR 10 year old. When the dad loves HIS 6 year old? It's different?? Yea okay!
10:41 AM - 26 Jun 2015

I guess my box turtle husband and I will be choosing a new team to root for this year.
Between 2 CONSENTING ADULTS, you slow-witted POS.

It's interesting how readily some opponents seem to be able to reason gay marriage, therefore paedophilia.
 
This is why I love working for Blizzard:

CIeTV2OVAAAFgyC.jpg


<3

It's also the picture of the card equality in Hearthstone :)
 
It's interesting how readily some opponents seem to be able to reason gay marriage, therefore paedophilia.

Because it's an easy way to get ignorant people to go along with it.

Wait, this important person told me that gay marriage leads to paedophilia. He's important, so it must be true.

Some critical thinking skills would fix that real quick, but that's something that's sorely lacking in the USA, especially in the Republican party (and they exploit the hell out of it).
 
I really like the site logo change. Any way that Meat Boy in my avatar could be rainbowized? I'm curious how long it's going to be before we start seeing lawsuits aiming at seeing if sexual orientation is a protected class. I feel like we're going to start seeing the animus argument coming up a lot more, now that the right to marriage has been established. Also, I can't wait to see the amount of the legal bills that Ohio, Michigan, Tennesee, and Kentucky are on the hook for, when all is said and done. Wisconsin ended up being around $1.2 million, and that only made it to SCOTUS to be denied cert. I imagine we're looking at a lot of money for which the taxpayers will be on the hook.
 
How often does social change of this magnitude happen so rapidly?
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Compare 2007 to where we are in June 2015...

Intrigued in the fact that New Mexico seems to be the only state outside the north-east that went directly no ban -> legal without a ban in between. Is there any story behind why?
 
Can anyone confirm that a nativity scene has been on display at the White House during the Obama administration during Christmas?

I need to respond to someone on Facebook asap.
 
I am hearing a lot, mostly on Facebook, about how the court overreached their power in issuing this decision.

I know it is probably crap, but does anyone have two good analyses which support and another which debunks that line of thought?
 
Anybody care to do my avatar? I made a request last page, but I think it got buried. I'm thinking maybe changing the colours of the night sky to a rainbow that's slightly desaturated.
 
I am hearing a lot, mostly on Facebook, about how the court overreached their power in issuing this decision.

I know it is probably crap, but does anyone have two good analyses which support and another which debunks that line of thought?

The Supreme Court decides upon how the Constitution should be interpreted. Their word is the final say on the matter. There is no overreaching here; they are simply doing what they have always done.

This may seem like they have too much power, but this is checked by them only being able to decide on cases that are brought up to them. They hold no legislative or executive power, nor do they have any direct control over creating policy.
 
I am hearing a lot, mostly on Facebook, about how the court overreached their power in issuing this decision.

I know it is probably crap, but does anyone have two good analyses which support and another which debunks that line of thought?

Probably basing it off of Roberts decent. Its a slippery slope really, but in all honesty it was the only way for it to get done. I really don't see congress ever getting a constitutional amendment passed and rectified, so the SCOTUS was the only avenue for this sort of thing to get done.

There is more to it than that, but on the phone so can't really do the research on the majority decision and his decent atm.
 
Does anyone have a good link explaining the politics behind this ruling? Why the supreme court had this case in the first place? One of the main talking points I hear in my area is that this ruling shouldn't have come down through the supreme court, which I find kind of ridiculous.

Just looking to read up a bit on it so I can debate these people more clearly when it comes up.
 
Does anyone have a good link explaining the politics behind this ruling? Why the supreme court had this case in the first place? One of the main talking points I hear in my area is that this ruling shouldn't have come down through the supreme court, which I find kind of ridiculous.

Just looking to read up a bit on it so I can debate these people more clearly when it comes up.

This case came up to the Supreme Court just like any other case: through the appeals process. The Supreme Court accepted to hear the case when it eventually reached them.
 
Does anyone have a good link explaining the politics behind this ruling? Why the supreme court had this case in the first place? One of the main talking points I hear in my area is that this ruling shouldn't have come down through the supreme court, which I find kind of ridiculous.

Just looking to read up a bit on it so I can debate these people more clearly when it comes up.

Just to straight up quote wikipedia to start off:

The court ruled that the denial of marriage licenses to same-sex couples violates the Due Process and the Equal Protection clauses of the Fourteenth Amendment of the United States Constitution.

In the 2013 Windsor decision, the court said that federal laws that made same sex marriage illegal were unconstitutional because of the same clause under the 5th amendment of the US constitution. That led to courts mostly holding that states had to allow same sex marriage, but some courts resisted, leading to this case, which straight up asked whether states had to allow it or not.

If you want to know more, I'd read Roberts dissenting opining in this case, because he basically argues "wait a second, this isn't the type of decision the Supreme Court should be making, this should be up to the legislatures to decide."
 
Very happy for these Mississippi lesbians, but... they look like sisters?

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Either way, gay couples are now marrying in all 50 states as of this morning (including Mississippi and Louisiana). We did it.
 
I am hearing a lot, mostly on Facebook, about how the court overreached their power in issuing this decision.

I know it is probably crap, but does anyone have two good analyses which support and another which debunks that line of thought?

Roberts' dissent was based on, to borrow a term from Scalia, legal gobbledygook. He claims that it wasn't the court's place to decide this issue, when in fact judicial review is precisely what the court is there for!

Kennedy bases a part of his ruling on Due Process/dignity/liberty, which feels and sounds good, but the text of the Constitution that this part of his argument is based-upon is pretty fluffy. The strongest, most concrete legal argument in favor of marriage that he leans on is probably based on Equal Protection. The 14th Amendment's Equal Protection Clause was originally drafted with this language:
&#8220;No discrimination shall be made by any State, or by the United States, as to the civil rights of persons because of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.&#8221;

Pretty narrow language. If that language had been retained, the 14th would've not applied to this case. But the language was changed into something incredibly powerful.

The committee drafting the Equal Protection Clause decided along the way to broaden the language so that its scope would be much, much wider, applying to ALL citizens:
&#8220;No State shall ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.&#8221;

That's pretty broad, plain language - and it was done so deliberately, so that it could be applied through the ages. Anyone claiming that the 14th Amendment is only supposed to apply to race is either lying or ignorant of the story behind the amendment's adoption. This one edit to the 14th Amendment is probably one of the biggest Constitutional edits in the history of our country.

Note that there are no asterisks there that say "except for the homos" or "except for marriage laws" or "except for when tradition dictates otherwise." Roberts basically takes it upon himself to insert these little exceptions into the Constitution. He legislates from the bench in creating these exceptions. It's not a judge's job to scribble exceptions in the Constitution's margins. If Roberts and his pals want those exceptions, the nation's founders have provided a very easy-to-understand amendment process to add such language.

Kennedy in his majority opinion can point to this plain language when making his ruling. It's clear, unambiguous language, and anyone claiming that Kennedy based his opinion on "nothing" or "not the Constitution" is (notice a pattern?) lying. Roberts.. not so much.

If your friends/family on Facebook have a problem with the concept of judicial review, I don't know what to tell them. It's one of the first things taught in Constitutional Law 101, and anyone disputing the court's ability to review and strike-down laws would be laughed out of class.

Here's a test to see if they're consistent in their concerns about judicial overreach: were they weeping or cheering when a key part of the Voting Rights Act was struck down in 2013?
 
Might be old news, but Cupertino has a new queer pride flag flying high.
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Seems to be based on their pride banner too. I like how they went out of their way to make a new logo design rather than merely bring back the 80s one and repurpose it.
 
I was camping for the past 4 days and was cut off from the internet, so this is a total surprise to come home to! Amazing news. Congrats to the LGBTQ community for this long and hard-fought victory. I'm honestly shocked. I thought we were still a long way off from seeing nationwide legalization of gay marriage, due to this (quoting Wikipedia): "In a 2013 survey, 56% of Americans said that religion played a 'very important role in their lives', a far higher figure than that of any other wealthy nation." There always seemed to be way too much opposition to gay marriage due to the huge amount of religious people in this country, but it's now clear that the tide has rapidly shifted on this topic.

This is writing.

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Expertly written. Made me all misty-eyed.

 
Actually got to work the gay parade yesterday and it was so awesome to see how many people were happy from this news history is made folks
 
Roberts' dissent was based on, to borrow a term from Scalia, legal gobbledygook. He claims that it wasn't the court's place to decide this issue, when in fact judicial review is precisely what the court is there for!

Kennedy bases a part of his ruling on Due Process/dignity/liberty, which feels and sounds good, but the text of the Constitution that this part of his argument is based-upon is pretty fluffy. The strongest, most concrete legal argument in favor of marriage that he leans on is probably based on Equal Protection. The 14th Amendment's Equal Protection Clause was originally drafted with this language:
“No discrimination shall be made by any State, or by the United States, as to the civil rights of persons because of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.”

Pretty narrow language. If that language had been retained, the 14th would've not applied to this case. But the language was changed into something incredibly powerful.

The committee drafting the Equal Protection Clause decided along the way to broaden the language so that its scope would be much, much wider, applying to ALL citizens:
“No State shall ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

That's pretty broad, plain language - and it was done so deliberately, so that it could be applied through the ages. Anyone claiming that the 14th Amendment is only supposed to apply to race is either lying or ignorant of the story behind the amendment's adoption. This one edit to the 14th Amendment is probably one of the biggest Constitutional edits in the history of our country.

Note that there are no asterisks there that say "except for the homos" or "except for marriage laws" or "except for when tradition dictates otherwise." Roberts basically takes it upon himself to insert these little exceptions into the Constitution. He legislates from the bench in creating these exceptions. It's not a judge's job to scribble exceptions in the Constitution's margins. If Roberts and his pals want those exceptions, the nation's founders have provided a very easy-to-understand amendment process to add such language.

Kennedy in his majority opinion can point to this plain language when making his ruling. It's clear, unambiguous language, and anyone claiming that Kennedy based his opinion on "nothing" or "not the Constitution" is (notice a pattern?) lying. Roberts.. not so much.

If your friends/family on Facebook have a problem with the concept of judicial review, I don't know what to tell them. It's one of the first things taught in Constitutional Law 101, and anyone disputing the court's ability to review and strike-down laws would be laughed out of class.

Here's a test to see if they're consistent in their concerns about judicial overreach: were they weeping or cheering when a key part of the Voting Rights Act was struck down in 2013?
I'm on my phone so I can't be too wordy, but you're wrong. His dissent wasn't based on judicial review. He wasn't saying that the court shouldn't have heard the case. He was saying that it should be the legislatures responsibility to decide what constitutes marriage, not the Supreme Court via the 14th amendment.
 
I'm on my phone so I can't be too wordy, but you're wrong. His dissent wasn't based on judicial review. He wasn't saying that the court shouldn't have heard the case. He was saying that it should be the legislatures responsibility to decide what constitutes marriage, not the Supreme Court via the 14th amendment.

True, he was against hearing it. But for him to claim that a fundamental right should be put up for a vote through the political process is essentially him shirking his duty. He even admitted during oral arguments that these bans constituted gender discrimination, but heaven forbid he rule based on little things like facts - he dodged. His role as a judge was to evaluate these bans, and he dodged. It was a chickenshit dissent based on his own feelings, and he had some damn gall to lie and claim that the majority opinion had "nothing to do with the Constitution."
 
After a few more conservative politicians and southern states make asses of themselves, how quickly does this whole thing become a non-issue?
61% of Republicans aged 18-29 supported gay marriage in Feb 2014:
With the speed at which things are changing, Republicans aged 30-50 are probably close to even by now...
 
DebbieDowner: I wounder if there will be a higher than normal divorce rate due to marriages related to this event?

Disclaimer, fully support this ruling on both moral and constitutional grounds.

Gay divorce rates are fairly consistent with straight divorce rates in the long term in places like The Netherlands, Belgium, Massachusetts, or Canada iirc.
 
DebbieDowner: I wounder if there will be a higher than normal divorce rate due to marriages related to this event?

Disclaimer, fully support this ruling on both moral and constitutional grounds.

Looking at some of these photos, I imagine many of them have been together for years and have very little chance of divorce. I have tears in my eyes because I see how happy they are.
 
no but I was told this'll be the next Roe.

It will be for evangelicals, but their political influence is slipping. It's part of the reason they are so upset about all this.

Gay divorce rates are fairly consistent with straight divorce rates in the long term in places like The Netherlands, Belgium, Massachusetts, or Canada iirc.

I think he's talking about people who potentially got married because of this ruling, and my not have thought it through as well as they perhaps should have. I personally doubt it will be common problem.
 
After a few more conservative politicians and southern states make asses of themselves, how quickly does this whole thing become a non-issue?
61% of Republicans aged 18-29 supported gay marriage in Feb 2014:

With the speed at which things are changing, Republicans aged 30-50 are probably close to even by now...
Another issue the Republicans will needlessly harp on only to lose the current and next young generation.. Why can't they see there is nothing to be gained from this? Things are shifting fast dramatically - thankfully, for the good of the USA.
 
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