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[vulva]

So everybody who does a good thing is doing it for the self-satisfaction they'll feel, rather than for the simple purpose of doing a good thing? Where do you live that people are like this?

You're saying rather than, when I'm saying it happens in concert with each other. Maybe that's what's throwing you off?

 

[pixelish]

So everybody who does a good thing is doing it for the self-satisfaction they'll feel, rather than for the simple purpose of doing a good thing? Where do you live that people are like this?

why are you making them mutually exclusive to one another?

 

[Producer]

this reminds me of the time gaf got butthurt that /v/ sent a get well postcard to iwata and gaf didnt lol

 

[Professor Beef]

You're saying rather than, when I'm saying it happens in concert with each other. Maybe that's what's throwing you off?

That makes sense.

 

[CurlyW]

I still disagree, the motivation is in knowing what they're doing is a good cause. This means the good action is in direct correlation with satisfaction of doing the right thing. Furthemore, the discussion is about if something can be 100% altruistic. I said it's impossible, you claimed bullshit. Even if 99.99999% of their reasoning was without selfish intent, there will always be that fraction of a percent of knowing they did the right thing and satisfaction within it.

How is knowing what you're doing is the right thing count against having pure intentions?

 

[Tripon]

this reminds me of the time gaf got butthurt that /v/ sent a postcard to iwata and gaf didnt lol

Yeah, people like Kinsei was especially annoying during that debate. The obvious answer was for GAF to organize and send that card, but that didn't happen until weeks later after people in that thread argued for days how bad 4chan was doing a good thing.

 

[mbpm1]

So everybody who does a good thing is doing it for the self-satisfaction they'll feel, rather than for the simple purpose of doing a good thing? Where do you live that people are like this?

Not everyone and not completely I mean. It's a mixed bag is what I feel. Good intentions and self-motivational results.

 

[vulva]

How is knowing what you're doing is the right thing count against having pure intentions?

I never said it did, I'm saying that within an altruistic action there's also an inherently selfish one. I've been saying that since the beginning of this discussion, everyone has except you. Why are you separating them?

 

[mbpm1]

why do you hate r/kappa so much?

Why does Beef hate Aksys so much

 

[Karsticles]

I have yet to see an individual commit a selfless act.

Why does Beef hate Aksys so much

Why does Beef always main characters that throw stuff at you.

 

[Producer]

Yeah, people like Kinsei was especially annoying during that debate. The obvious answer was for GAF to organize and send that card, but that didn't happen until weeks later after people in that thread argued for days how bad 4chan was doing a good thing.

Oh god dont remind me of those posts..

But anyways, at the end of the day, they organize, create polls, and ultimately send players to events. Even if they do it just to have the rkappa tag on stream or other reasons, all of us end up getting to see more good play. Who cares if its not 'altruistic' lol cmon now.

 

[CurlyW]

why are you making them mutually exclusive to one another?

You're saying rather than, when I'm saying it happens in concert with each other. Maybe that's what's throwing you off?

I'm saying many people don't consciously do good things because they know going in they will feel good afterwards. I don't get why thinking "I should do this because it's the right thing to do" is not having pure intentions.

And regarding r kappa, I'd say their intentions for sending players to foreign tournaments are more than 50% selfish and the amount of good it does is not actually that much.

the money raised for pushatee's widow was a very selfless action, obviously, so I will give them that, but that was way bigger than just r kappa.

 

[mbpm1]

I'm saying many people don't consciously do good things because they know going in they will feel good afterwards. I don't get why thinking "I should do this because it's the right thing to do" is not having pure intentions.

This might be true, but just bc an act or motivation is consciously felt or not doesn't prevent it from being relevant

 

[vulva]

I'm saying many people don't consciously do good things because they know going in they will feel good afterwards. I don't get why thinking "I should do this because it's the right thing to do" is not having pure intentions.

All I said is that something is never 100% altruistic/selfless. I stand by that and I think you're seriously misunderstanding what that means. The result of a selfless act inherently contains a selfish result. This isn't a bad thing, by any means, but it makes the act also an inherently selfish one as well. This, again, isn't a bad thing. You can have purely positive intentions and enjoy that, anyone who thinks that's a bad thing is a psychopath.

 

[Juicebox_FGC]

ON JULY 7TH

SEE ME IN YATA

(Unless you don't like the aesthetic, or the occasional camel toe, or parries, or the gameplay, or the simple UI, or the way you have control over your input delay at all times which some people don't like, or that there's only 11 characters, or that the scene is likely to be small, or you can't afford $15 right now which I totally understand, or if you hate me or something.)

 

[Professor Beef]

I have yet to see an individual commit a selfless act.


Why does Beef always main characters that throw stuff at you.

I'm actually on my way to the police station to meet with someone who lost their iPad. Obviously you can't SEE it, but yeah.

And throwing stuff is fun because it annoys the opponent into making mistakes.

 

[K.Sabot]

I WILL YOU SEE IN YATA ON JULY 7TH

and get bodied.

 

[mbpm1]

ON JULY 7TH

SEE ME IN YATA

(Unless you don't like the aesthetic, or the occasional camel toe, or parries, or the gameplay, or the simple UI, or the way you have control over your input delay at all times which some people don't like, or that there's only 11 characters, or that the scene is likely to be small, or you can't afford $15 right now which I totally understand, or if you hate me or something.)

Can't wait to play it

 

[CurlyW]

All I said is that something is never 100% altruistic/selfless. I stand by that and I think you're seriously misunderstanding what that means. The result of a selfless act inherently contains a selfish result. This isn't a bad thing, by any means, but it makes the act also an inherently selfish one as well. This, again, isn't a bad thing. You can have purely positive intentions and enjoy that, anyone who thinks that's a bad thing is a psychopath.

forget results, let's talk motivations. Do you think that nobody can be 100% altruistic in their motivations, regardless of any potentially beneficial results to them?

 

[vulva]

forget results, let's talk motivations. Do you think that nobody can be 100% altruistic in their motivations, regardless of any potentially beneficial results to them?

I'd still say so because if their motivation was to do something they feel is right then that's still something for themself. Even if the result leaves them miserable, the intent still exists with the desire to do something which is in line with their morals and something they feel is positive. It still, ultimately, involves their own desire in the act and motivation.

 

[mbpm1]

And throwing stuff is fun because it annoys the opponent into making mistakes.

randomly, I wonder if this works in real life

 

[WhateverItTakes]

I always thought /r/kappa's thing wasn't that they were monumental dickbags, but was that they were playing as being the stream chat, I.E. being monumental dickbags. Its not highbrow enough to be called satire but I can't see their behaviour being legitimately genuine, though to be honest, I might be justifying their behaviour because I think raising money for players to get to tournies is pretty damn cool overall.

 

[Kalamari]

ON JULY 7TH

SEE ME IN YATA

(Unless you don't like the aesthetic, or the occasional camel toe, or parries, or the gameplay, or the simple UI, or the way you have control over your input delay at all times which some people don't like, or that there's only 11 characters, or that the scene is likely to be small, or you can't afford $15 right now which I totally understand, or if you hate me or something.)

I can't wait! I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on this.

 

[CurlyW]

I'd still say so because if their motivation was to do something they feel is right then that's still something for themself. Even if the result leaves them miserable, the intent still exists with the desire to do something which is in line with their morals and something they feel is positive. It still, ultimately, involves their own desire in the act and motivation.

Morals like "cancer is bad" and "that guy has a flat tire"?

 

[vulva]

Morals like "cancer is bad" and "that guy has a flat tire"?

Morals like "I'm able to help these causes so I should"

 

[mbpm1]

I always thought /r/kappa's thing wasn't that they were monumental dickbags, but was that they were playing as being the stream chat, I.E. being monumental dickbags. Its not highbrow enough to be called satire but I can't see their behaviour being legitimately genuine, though to be honest, I might be justifying their behaviour because I think raising money for players to get to tournies is pretty damn cool overall.

Eh, I'd say some of it is that, but most of it is just that it's a place where they can actually be d-bags without being banned.

Re: Vulva and CurlyW: You guys have pretty different views on the world.

 

[Karsticles]

I'm saying many people don't consciously do good things because they know going in they will feel good afterwards. I don't get why thinking "I should do this because it's the right thing to do" is not having pure intentions.

And regarding r kappa, I'd say their intentions for sending players to foreign tournaments are more than 50% selfish and the amount of good it does is not actually that much.

the money raised for pushatee's widow was a very selfless action, obviously, so I will give them that, but that was way bigger than just r kappa.

If you judge people by what is conscious, you judge them by something that isn't even involved in the decision-making process, and that is the least revealing portion of human nature. What is conscious is entirely irrelevant to understanding human nature. The pre-conscious, unconscious, and non-conscious are important.

I'm actually on my way to the police station to meet with someone who lost their iPad. Obviously you can't SEE it, but yeah.

And throwing stuff is fun because it annoys the opponent into making mistakes.

I know you are a good guy. I am just messing around.

randomly, I wonder if this works in real life

Try it.

 

[CurlyW]

Morals like "I'm able to help these causes so I should"

Which is selfish because...? And in this case, by selfish I mean "consciously beneficial to the person doing the action"

If you judge people by what is conscious, you judge them by something that isn't even involved in the decision-making process, and that is the least revealing portion of human nature. What is conscious is entirely irrelevant to understanding human nature. The pre-conscious, unconscious, and non-conscious are important.

You come in here with your philosophy degree and think you know everything about human nature.

 

[SquirrelSoup]

randomly, I wonder if this works in real life

I can 100% guarantee i will be annoyed into making mistakes if people start throwing stuff at me in the dojo <.<

 

[vulva]

Which is selfish because...? And in this case, by selfish I mean "consciously beneficial to the person doing the action"

It's selfish because the act is in the person's own interest as well. I can't stress enough to you that I don't think that's a bad thing at all by any stretch, but you can't tell me there's no selfish act within it.

 

[mbpm1]

I can 100% guarantee i will be annoyed into making mistakes if people start throwing stuff at me in the dojo <.<

 

[Dlent]

I remember when I first donated to the Yata Indiegogo and the estimated release was February of 2014. Still enjoying it.

 

[enzo_gt]

Nobody seeks out self-satisfaction when giving to charity, lol. Nobody says "I'm going to do this so I can get endorphins to my brain" when donating to a good cause. People aren't robots. People give to charity out of pure altruism all the time. Only a fucking cylon would think otherwise.

Edit: okay, cylons and this guy: http://m.noisey.vice.com/blog/anarc...-year-olds-through-punk?utm_source=noiseyfbus

Yeah, uh, there is decades of research in psychology dedicated to questioning what makes things altruistic and definitely strong arguments for a bottom-line self-satisfaction in both the act and providing yourself with the satisfaction of knowing that you are a good person for doing so. Whether you're conscious of it or counting endorphins or not, that's on you. But that's definitely a thing and so is doubt on whether altruism really is what the childrens storybooks make it look like.

 

[CurlyW]

It's selfish because the act is in the person's own interest as well. I can't stress enough to you that I don't think that's a bad thing at all by any stretch, but you can't tell me there's no selfish act within it.

I just don't see how that's something people consciously think going in.

Yeah, uh, there is decades of research in psychology dedicated to questioning what makes things altruistic and definitely strong arguments for a bottom-line self-satisfaction in both the act and providing yourself with the satisfaction of knowing that you are a good person for doing so. Whether you're conscious of it or counting endorphins or not, that's on you. But that's definitely a thing and so is doubt on whether altruism really is what the childrens storybooks make it look like.

I'm not debating that people don't feel good from doing altruistic things. I just don't see that as a conscious motivator for people to do altruistic things.

 

[mbpm1]

I just don't see how that's something people consciously think going in.

I think what people are saying is that conscious or not, it's still a factor.

And apparently research I guess.

 

[vulva]

I just don't see how that's something people consciously think going in.

Why does an action have to be conscious for it to be selfish? The subconscious self could easily be a guiding factor.

 

[Karsticles]

Which is selfish because...? And in this case, by selfish I mean "consciously beneficial to the person doing the action"



You come in here with your philosophy degree and think you know everything about human nature.

Based on empirical science, actually!

Neurological studies have shown that the conscious experience occurs after the brain has already decided the action that will occur. Any notion of you having a part in deciding what happens through conscious thought is an illusion. So, if you want to make arguments about what is in the nature of man, consciousness is probably not the best grounds for an argument. Freud wanted to prove this back in his day, but we didn't have the technology yet.

In a discussion about selfishness, I think you need to define what that word means. Is consciousness necessary for selfishness? Is intention necessary? Free will? I think it is more helpful to get on the same page as your interlocutor about these notions before engaging in a discussion about selfishness, because you may not even share the same assumptions about what selfishness entails.

 

[Rentahamster]

Bill Trinen is entering Smash Bros at EVO? wat.

 

[CurlyW]

Also I'm at a baseball game and I just missed the first 2 and a half innings for this.

 

[mbpm1]

Based on empirical science, actually!

Neurological studies have shown that the conscious experience occurs after the brain has already decided the action that will occur. Any notion of you having a part in deciding what happens through conscious thought is an illusion. So, if you want to make arguments about what is in the nature of man, consciousness is probably not the best grounds for an argument. Freud wanted to prove this back in his day, but we didn't have the technology yet.

So you're saying that when Daigo reads an opponent is gonna press buttons, he reads their subconsious too?

PogChamp

Also I'm at a baseball game and I just missed the first 2 and a half innings for this.

It's alright, you didn't miss much =P

 

[RockTurtle]

i pray everything goes well at r/kappa:

 

[vulva]

Also I'm at a baseball game and I just missed the first 2 and a half innings for this.

I guess I lose, you missed part of a baseball game for the sake of discussing something with me. 100% altruism in action

 

[Karsticles]

So you're saying that when Daigo reads an opponent is gonna press buttons, he reads their subconsious too?

PogChamp

Haha. What I mean is that when Daigo gets a read, his brain is looking for a set of cues. Those cues lead his brain to decide upon an action. THEN, after the action is decided by his neurological functions, a part of his brain gets the message of "oh yeah, we are doing this", and that is the experience of consciousness. The transmission of the information is extremely fast, so humans come to make the mistake of thinking that their conscious experience is the cause of the action.

Also I'm at a baseball game and I just missed the first 2 and a half innings for this.

We both know that GAF is more interesting than baseball.

 

[call_kotaku]

Don't charity organizations usually turn down large donations from hate groups?

 

[Anne]

ON JULY 7TH

SEE ME IN YATA

(Unless you don't like the aesthetic, or the occasional camel toe, or parries, or the gameplay, or the simple UI, or the way you have control over your input delay at all times which some people don't like, or that there's only 11 characters, or that the scene is likely to be small, or you can't afford $15 right now which I totally understand, or if you hate me or something.)

Lol @ obvious comment

 

[Holy Order Sol]

fuck philosophy tbh

 

[Lostconfused]

So you're saying that when Daigo reads an opponent is gonna press buttons, he reads their subconsious too?

PogChamp

Well considering that fighting games are really fast paced and are kind of based around basic emotional responses of aggression and fear, yeah that's the best option for getting good reads.

 

[pixelish]

damn....aris hates death grips ;_;

 

[K.Sabot]

damn....aris hates death grips ;_;

I AM NOT FUCKIN FEELIN IT

 

[KidA Seven]

Does he at least like Slowdive?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ylunl72PyE