And should it be? And if so, why?
I thought equal protection under the law was something to strive for, not to shrug off and say "well, it's universally accepted, so no biggie".
Video shows FSU QB throwing a punch at a woman at a bar
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And should it be? And if so, why?
I thought equal protection under the law was something to strive for, not to shrug off and say "well, it's universally accepted, so no biggie".
OldAsUrSock
Banned
It's because he is black not because she is white.
I'm not familiar with Ray Rice. Was he a man who was attacked first by a stranger while intoxicated in a bar, and punched a girl resulting in a black eye, bruised cheek, and small cut?
EDIT: Because if not, then I'm not sure why you brought it up.
Man and woman don't have anything to do with it, I was only identifying the parties as "woman" and "he." And please calm down.
If a person broke into my house and threatened my family I'd go mental on that person. If I had access to a firearm I'd probably try to kill them. If not I would try to strangle them to death. I'd have to face the music tho!
If I bump a person at a bar, or a person bumps me at a bar and they're a jerk and threaten to punch me or even manage to strike me, I'm a big enough person to walk away and I'm smart enough to know that is most likely the best course of action. I'd probably offer to buy them a drink afterwards, lol!
Thanks brother. I admit ignorance. I am wrong more than I am right. I just try to get better everyday.
So tell me how I'm MRA? I believe in equal protection, and that women aren't weak and fragile.
EDIT: And please don't label me as that and expect me not to be offended, or to then tell me to calm down. It's fucking insulting.
It's such a big gray area when you realize that he wasn't in any immediate danger by getting hit from her and she could've been from getting hit him. This is why I was saying they both fucked up. Had he not stuck her (perhaps not even struck her so hard) things would've worked out better. Problem is the law doesn't see things equally in these situations and until something changes (if ever) men should subdue and not retaliate.
I said you're argument was sounding MRA-ish. With the whole men are treated unfairly compared to women:
Edit: Apologies for any offense on the label.
Firelord Chargrilled
Banned
If anyone is willing to be assaulted by a man , woman , animal or alien and dont do shit about it then I feel bad for you son.
Again, fuck off. I'm fighting for women not to be seen as weak and fragile.
Where did I say men are treated unfairly? I assumed men and women would be treated equally.
Well, I'm done then. Being told to fuck off repeatedly doesn't leave much room for explanation or debate.
I think the difference between those two situations is that the person breaking in premeditated the fact that they were going to break it and you as a citizen have the right to defend your life or your loved ones from that type of situation.
The bar thing is much more of a gray area especially when it's opposite sexes because there was no forethought involved in this from either party. It was a simple reaction and regardless of that de'andre realized retaliation wasn't the right thing to do at first as evidenced by him trying to subdue her. I think in the end what got him was adrenaline and lack of impulse control. That flight or fight response won't help when the law sees a male as the aggressor in most altercations. Not saying it's right it's just how it is and hopefully that changes although I'd like to say violence should be a last resort no matter what.
Neither does being labeled MRA when it couldn't be more wrong.
EDIT: At least admit to me that there probably isn't a case where a man kicked another in a groin, took a swing, then got punched and suffered expected (non-severe) injuries, then had the case heard against the person he kicked and swung at.
EDIT 2: I consider being labeled MRA about 1000x worse than being told to fuck off.
The way some people in this thread want women to be treated is on par with how they were treated in Nazi Germany. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism_in_Germany#Nazi_era
entremet
Member
Of course "walk away" is always the best answer but I wouldn't expect a reasonable, measured response out of a drunk person who just got punched in the face. He reacted poorly but this is too near the line of self-defense for me to think the charges are necessary.
I imagine all the legalities have been beaten to death in this thread. I just can't find any sympathy for a punched person who instigated the conflict with a punch of their own (not to mention the alleged racist fuckery). "Equal and opposite reaction" and all that.
I can't wrap my head around the justice in him being charged and her not. There were two adults involved. Each punched the other in the face. The person who landed the first punch walks while the person who reacted is charged. In five words or less, why is that so?
I imagine all the legalities have been beaten to death in this thread. I just can't find any sympathy for a punched person who instigated the conflict with a punch of their own (not to mention the alleged racist fuckery). "Equal and opposite reaction" and all that.
I can't wrap my head around the justice in him being charged and her not. There were two adults involved. Each punched the other in the face. The person who landed the first punch walks while the person who reacted is charged. In five words or less, why is that so?
Firelord Chargrilled
Banned
Bruh Lmao wat ?
You're cold blooded killer When someone breaks in but turn into a pussy that won't fight someone who assaulted you and you buy them a drink after ? I don't even ... Huh .......
This shit is straight up embarrassing
Yeah, I agree completely. He grabbed her hands, which was completely warranted. He should have grabbed her hands, said, "you're a crazy woman," and walked away. But instead he raged hard.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
I agree with you, especially regarding the MRA labelling (if anyone wants to label me an MRA I'll be more than happy to laugh in their face) but you might want to calm down on the expletives. This isn't the hill you want to die on, I think.
Vagina.
You do undestand that scientifically speaking, men are physically stronger and more likely to cause damage in a physical altercation with a woman right?
It's important that you understand that.
Because if you did, you would also understand why male on female assault is objectively different to the reverse.
I'm not claiming that women are "weak and fragile". What I'm saying - which is factually correct - is that there is not an equal playing field between men and women when it comes to physical violence.
Does that excuse or justify a woman hitting a man? No.
The video starts with him approaching the bar and her forcing her way in front of him.
Then, she tries to push him away from the bar with her hip.
When he doesn't move, she puts her left arm on his throat and raises her right arm to strike.
He attempts to restrain her so she can't hit him.
She responds by escalating with a knee to the groin and a punch.
He responds with a punch.
At every step in the video, she escalated the confrontation.
She clearly started the entire thing and wasn't interested in backing down at any point.
The problem isn't that the law doesn't see things equally, but that people are inherently biased and don't see things equally.
Prosecutors have an exceptional amount of leeway in deciding who to charge and who not to charge. That leeway is part of the reason why we see disparities in sentencing for the same crimes.
The fact that he tried to subdue her reinforces the idea that he wasn't looking for a fight. He didn't just jump to throwing punches.
I agree with you, especially regarding the MRA labelling (if anyone wants to label me an MRA I'll be more than happy to laugh in their face) but you might want to calm down on the expletives. This isn't the hill you want to die on, I think.
You're right. I hope he's actually gone...equal response and all that, I'd be willing to give him 998 more. He also ninja edited something more offensive that unfortunately I didn't catch.
But yeah, 100 deep breaths before I come back.
The reality is that in most circles this behavior would never happen.
I think it's hard for people that are used to this type of violence to even understand that none of this is normal.
No one I know has been in a fist fight past the age of 15. Most people have probably never been in a physical altercation at all.
i grew up in a really dangerous and poor neighborhood. The only way you get out of that is by accepting that this shit is not normal, not justifiable, and never ok.
Maybe getting punched a few seconds before and allegedly kneed to the groin.
Just a guess though.
Black man, white woman.
Totally, bruh, I'm a pussy who doesn't want to harm another unbalanced individual, go to jail, lose my kids, my wife, or my assets. Bruh, what's wrong me with?
Are men capable of taking harder hits than women? Otherwise I view most of what you said as irrelevant. I wouldn't view either sex, while intoxicated, as much of a threat. Doesn't mean they can kick me in the balls and swing at me. The unnecessary force comes down to thinking this woman is less able to take a hit, not that she's less able to hit.
And is the discrepancy in strength so great that women aren't capable or can't be seen as threatening?
Edit: also want to reiterate I've never thrown a punch. The two times I've been beat I subscribed to the 'play dead' methodology.
Maybe, and bear with me, this is just a theory, but just maybe the guy took offence to having a belligerent drunk shouting in his face, pressing her arm against his throat, getting kneed in the groin, punched and called a racial slur.
Or, alternatively, he was just a Neanderthal on the prowl for feeling up women and punching them in the face the second they denied him.
Major athletes at top schools get it drilled into their head that they are never, ever supposed to throw a punch, ever, no matter what. Reason being that they can fucking kill someone by doing that. They arent normal people. They get told this fucking daily.
Source - my brother in law was a professional baseball pitcher.
Yeah. Besides the whole gender thing, there are probably racial undertones to some of the comments I'm seeing here. Make it a black woman and a white guy and I bet someone changes their mind. Bottom line is the woman initiated the whole thing and then escalated it by yelling at him for no apparent reason other than him trying to get next to her to order a drink. Once he talked back, she had a chnce to stand the fuck down but nope. She choose to get physical and he repsonded in kind. It's easy for people to play monday morning QB on this (pun intended), but in the heat of the moment when someone's talking shit to you, going for your groin, punching at you, and calling you racist names, you might snap too.
This kid is 19....I wonder if that bar got hit hard...
World of difference between that drunk chick's punch and a division one quarterback squaring up and socking her in the face lol. Like I said, dude is a piece of shit.
If I told you that the male skull has indeed evolved to take a punch better than the female skull are we cool? Because that's what happened.
So, we have conclusive proof that in general, a man can not only punch harder than a woman, but that a woman is less equipped to take that punch.
Can you honestly not see why they're different?
If it was a drunk guy, any difference?
Firelord Chargrilled
Banned
You just said you would go to jail for killing someone but not for someone beating the shit out of you ?
Haha cmon son
dripdripsplash
Member
When this debate comes up I get confused.
Women and men are/should be completely equal, right ?
Then why isn't a man allowed to hit back if he is attacked by a woman ?
Even with the biological viewpoint it doesn't make sense. A women is still able to do some damage on another person with fist punches. Anyone is able to do damage with fist punches.
I really don't get it.
Are they suddenly fragile things that must be protected when this debate comes up ?
EDIT:
Hypothetically: If a women came up and assaulted you on the street, is it then not accepted to hit back ?
He only seemed to hit her with one punch, to remove the threat, not like he was ramming her repeatedly, if his story is true, isn't he just defending himself ?
Women and men are/should be completely equal, right ?
Then why isn't a man allowed to hit back if he is attacked by a woman ?
Even with the biological viewpoint it doesn't make sense. A women is still able to do some damage on another person with fist punches. Anyone is able to do damage with fist punches.
I really don't get it.
Are they suddenly fragile things that must be protected when this debate comes up ?
EDIT:
Hypothetically: If a women came up and assaulted you on the street, is it then not accepted to hit back ?
He only seemed to hit her with one punch, to remove the threat, not like he was ramming her repeatedly, if his story is true, isn't he just defending himself ?
Fights are still common on football fields and QBs avoid them like the plague, but this wasn't a football field. This incident occurred under entirely different situation circumstances wherein he is justified by law to defend himself.
Also keep in mind he is 19 and probably wasn't entirely sober at the time. He wasn't planning on hurting anyone.
If he connected like this guy did? No, not really. Though the fact that this guy is a top tier athlete and likely pretty damn strong makes it even worse than usual.
I'd probably go unhinged if someone threatened my family.
If someone punched me my life wouldn't change. Why would I punch back when I have everything to lose but nothing to gain?
Did his punch pierce her skull, or cause brain damage? If not, then again, irrelevant. Women fight. Can fight. Are pretty damn good at it if they want to be.
Im not talking about "on the football field." Im saying major universities have risk management councillors who remind athletes daily to never get into a fight with a normal person.
But we know how much damage he did. A black eye, a bruised cheek, and a small cut. That's what I would expect if I did what she did to someone much bigger than I am.
Dude Abides
Banned
He went from bumping to a hard shove. That's the first contact beyond what one would reasonably expect in a crowded bar. Her raising her hand doesn't give him the right to start gEttinger all gabby.
Also her hand was across his chest, not throat.
Finally, prosecutors don't sentence, judges do.
But whatever. There's no point in saying the sky is blue to someone emotionally invested in believing it's pink.
dripdripsplash
Member
Wouldn't the true feminist viewpoint be that of course you can hit a women, in defence, if she attacks you ?
Firelord Chargrilled
Banned
It's this little thing called self-defense are you purposely trying to be obtuse ?
I don't know how what to tell you because it's obvious you have no survival instinct.
Edit: fix quote
Women have thicker skulls bro.
Not like it matters, the bad thing is your brain shaking around inside your head from the impact, not if your skull is .25in vs .28in thick
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