BertramCooper
Banned
Let's not act like Sanders is overwhelmed by minority support. Because he isn't.
His base of support is about as white as any Republican candidate's.
I am immensely impressed with Bernie Sanders
- Thread starter vicissitudes
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Let's not act like Sanders is overwhelmed by minority support. Because he isn't.
His base of support is about as white as any Republican candidate's.
Yeah but that normal for the US. They are on the extreme of the global right when it comes to politics
Permanently A
Junior Member
Its too bad Bernie and Hillary are running at the same time. Lots of people want to vote Bernie but are going to vote Hillary instead because they don't think Bernie can win.
Wafflecakes
Member
Those countries do not have a winner takes all systems styled like the US system.
...and those rare occasions when it has occurred have been during moments of extreme crisis. Which the US is lacking right now.
Let us not make shit up.
The US is to the right of Europe, but hardly far right on a global perspective.
Please, this is such a wrongheaded attitude to have, especially considering how dismal all of the Republican hopefuls have been so far.
Bernie being a true believer is his greatest attribute and also his largest weakness. Politics is a game, and you have to play it well in order to succeed. His values go well against many important avenues necessary for him to win.
And beyond his ideals, his effectiveness in office is still a question mark. Just because he's the President doesn't mean a liberal bastion will be upon us. Look at the reasonable, centrist stuff Obama tries to do and cannot get done.
And beyond his ideals, his effectiveness in office is still a question mark. Just because he's the President doesn't mean a liberal bastion will be upon us. Look at the reasonable, centrist stuff Obama tries to do and cannot get done.
Wafflecakes
Member
It is very shortsighted to ignore that there are several GOP candidates who would be strong general election candidates.
Bush will make it very close no matter how much people like to pretend otherwise.
vicissitudes
Banned
I don't believe that's true. The democratic nominee, and the President-elect, is dictated by how many votes they get from individual people, not dictated by how much money a candidate raises. If that's the case, then the wealthiest candidate would win and there would be no need for votes.
Campaign money is important in that it can buy ads to get the message out. But money is not needed to get the message out. I can also volunteer (which I plan to do) to get Bernie's message across and it doesn't cost him a penny. We have discussion forums like NeoGAF that, albeit small, can also sway minds, and it doesn't cost Bernie a cent. Bernie's Rally in Wisconsin a week ago on Youtube has 186,182 views, and 5,671 likes, and that's getting his message out, without costing him a dime.
Completely untrue. If you read my OP, I would happily vote for Hillary in the general election if Bernie lost in the primaries, I agree with her on most issues, and I think she would make a great president. I just happen to think Bernie is a better candidate.
Thank you for the kind words.
Shouldn't he, though? There was just a picture of Bernie on the other page being involved in desegregation in the 60's. He represents labor, which is what minorities are involved in. He's been outspoken for like half a century on equality, what more do minorities need?
Republicans, on the other hand, don't represent minorities. They legislate in ways that exclusively fuck over minorities. Why do minorities vote for them!?
This worries me. I understand people are, in general, really really dumb, but you should be able to say "this guy wants you to have more money" and give a thumbs up and get their vote, and say "this guy thinks you're a parasite on society" and give a thumbs down and make that logic stick.
Well, of course it is. He hails from/works for a state that couldn't possibly be whiter.
Let's not act like Walker would get even a small fraction of the minority support that the Democrat who started his political career during the Civil Rights movement would get. He's running with a (D) next to his name and he's got a fantastic record on civil rights. Minorities aren't about to start voting Republican any time soon.
BertramCooper
Banned
Turnout is the issue.
You're guaranteed to see much higher minority turnout with Clinton as the candidate than with Sanders as the candidate.
Wafflecakes
Member
The bitter tears on fox news if it happens.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Wow this shit is annoying.
I mean, it's like No Mans Sky type of threads at this point.
Make a thread about NMS, you get "But what do you do?"
Make a thread about Bernie, you get "He has no chance you guys are delusional"
Interfectum
Member
Happens every Sanders thread now. Smug shitposts from the same posters.
And_Gignac
Member
Minorities will vote democrat no matter the candidate, because of the party's platform. Bernie still hasn't cracked the minority vote but going by his credentials he can absolutely do it.
Pro Hillary people do not want to speak of an undeniable truth: Hillary has problems, she has contradicted herself an awful number of times, going from extreme to extreme in her opinions. Republicans will go all in to exploit that and destroy her during elections, she is not that unbreakable as some think she is.
American Eskimo
Banned
Sanders isnt a racist hypocrite though
sooperkool
Member
Please do not screw us up by splitting the party with a bunch of sympathy votes for Sanders.
Red Mage
Member
It's not because of similar policies, just the way supporters start sounding like Amway pushers. You sound like you're above that, though, so kudos.
Not a Clinton supporter. It creeps everyone else out too.
I've never posted in a Sanders thread before...
;Right? People acting like this is some console fanboy nonsense and Bernie's supporters are like Sony shills or something. Fucking ridiculous and it only helps to strengthen the shit electoral situation we have to deal with every four years.
Interfectum
Member
I feel bad for you.
BertramCooper
Banned
Again: Turnout.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Yes, supporting Bernie and not shit posting is the equivalent of going door to door trying to get highschool kids into a pyramid scheme.
This isn't debating. You can debate about Bernie and his chances, like his support demographic and the issues he will face.
Just going around saying "his supporters are crazy people" is kinda insulting really.
Wafflecakes
Member
Their politics have nothing to do with the election phenomenon.
The language used to justify each as a candidate is the same.
So much truth right here. I think his policies are palatable to the general public and what most people, conservative or not, can get behind. I think there was even an article that stated that many voters would vote for the policy over the (D) or (R) behind the name. It's a matter of removing the Red Scare stigma of the word "socialism" and his presidential run will do just that. But many would rather pile on the "safe" candidate with more money in their pockets, no better than the corporations they claim to despise. I can sort of see where the notion that "the Democratic party is spineless" comes from.
Some of you people are nuts and don't understand how demographics drive federal elections if you think Bernie would get slaughtered against a republican. No matter who the candidates are on either side, Republicans have virtually no mathematical chance to get to 270 votes.
One of their current joke candidates would have to win the popular vote by at LEAST 5% to have a chance to swing EVERY swing state in their favor, which they need to get to 270.
One of their current joke candidates would have to win the popular vote by at LEAST 5% to have a chance to swing EVERY swing state in their favor, which they need to get to 270.
And_Gignac
Member
turnout will depend on the elections climate, debates and a lot of other unexpected things, not just on the Clinton brand.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Americans are far less bothered by flip-floppers than people think. Obama's campaign was told by their pollsters not to attack Romney over flip-flopping because it actually made him more appealing to voters who would just assume that Romney's real position was whatever one they held.
ShemhazaiX
Member
If I was American I'd vote for him.
But then, I'm a filthy socialist.
But then, I'm a filthy socialist.
I'd be more likely to turnout for Bernie because him losing to a Republican religious fanatic would be the worst possible thing for the country and by extension every other country on the planet.
I'd be a little more relaxed about showing up for Hilldawg because she's got it on lock against any of the current GOP'ers.
You didn't respond to my earlier post, why wouldn't minorities see value in Bernie?
American Eskimo
Banned
Of course it does. There are plenty of people who would have voted for Paul but then noped the hell out of there when the crazy was revealed.
Bernie has decades of proving he's not racist and crazy. There are no skeletons in his closet, no land mines.
Exactly. Clinton is going to keep people home. Nobody runs to the polls to vote for a corporate lobbyist.
Bernie can actually inspire people to vote for change. Not the fake focus group tested Obama change, but the real deal.
BertramCooper
Banned
Keep in mind that Hillary also has much of Obama's campaign people working for her now.
It's not just that she's much better known and much more popular with minorities than Bernie Sanders ever will be - it's that she also has the machinery to get people to the ballot box.
Bernie will get people to the ballot box. Lots of white people.
Red Mage
Member
Um... okay?
I didn't say that. In fact, I said you sounded like you had a good head on your shoulders. Sorry for saying his supporters were starting to sound like Ron Paul's.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Ehh, not really. Hillary is going to get a good portion of the Obama demographic to vote for her, and President elections always have greater turnouts for democrats than off years.
It wasn't there when I posted XD.
But you're right, that's it's not to say there are those who push their political views to great depths, and fringe outside candidates will always have more than others. But I don't really think Bernie is all that fringe outside of his "socialist-democrat" statement. If you listen to what he says it's not even fringe, people just market it that way for some reason.
Bernie has a long, long way to go to be a truly viable candidate. I think he has a shot if he plays his cards right, but his demographic issue is going to be a major hurdle, but I don't think it's something that's impossible to fix.
vicissitudes
Banned
I am not in favor of splitting the party. I am in favor of having everyone who support Democratic policies, vote for the Democratic nominee in the general election, no matter who it is. But we have Democratic Primaries for a reason, which is to select the best candidate to represent the party, from a multitude of potential candidates. I do not believe in supporting a candidate who does not best represent my views just for the sake of "following everyone else".
I'm not familiar with Ron Paul's supporters and how they act. Can you elaborate on why they are creepy and why supporting Bernie Sanders is akin to supporting Ron Paul?
Yeah, Clinton may be the least inspiring candidate in the field. She's supposed to be a shoo-in. I may be underestimating the gender appeal, but I could see the base getting real complacent in the general election if hillary is the nominee.
Well, the general assumption is that if your preferred candidate loses, you probably have a preference between the candidates that are left.
Under our current voting system, you can only indicate your first choice, so voting for your first choice hurts your second and third choices.
It doesn't really matter if the second choice isn't popular, but let's create a situation where the popularity for parties is like so
Republican 40%
Democrat 35%
Green party 25%
Assuming that people who identify with with the green party approve of democrats more than republicans, it is clear that they are hurting their own interests. The same thing for third parties that are closer to republicans. So, for most people, voting for a third party that aligns with their interests. Which people have realized and led to the two party system.
Of course, if you really don't have a preference between the remaining candidates, then it makes perfect sense to vote for marginal candidates.
Septimus Prime
Member
A Republican President was the one who created the Emancipation Proclamation, and the Republican Party is the one that ultimately freed the slaves. It doesn't matter that the party's platform is now almost the opposite of what it was back in those days; the name association is super strong and carries with it a lot of good will.
Back in the 90s, I remember watching a commercial for a Spike Lee movie, where the (black) character says something like, "I don't care who you are or what you do, but as long as you vote Republican, you're alright." If your education of political parties consists of solely pop culture, you would think the GOP supported minorities.
Wafflecakes
Member
Both have their campaigns justified as:
"Oh, they will raise important issues."
"They stand for what they believe in."
"Their presence will cause the other candidates to move their way."
Etc, etc, etc
Exact same shit. Neither has a shot and just run for teh giggles.
BertramCooper
Banned
Sanders hasn't had to represent any sizeable minority group in his entire career.
He has an admirable personal record on working for civil rights when he was younger, but as a statesman, racial equality and justice haven't been hallmarks of his public policy accomplishments.
He doesn't have experience campaigning on these issues and he doesn't have people behind him who can help him do it, as Clinton does.
Hyperactivity
Banned
So you're saying you like him more and still won't vote for him!?
This right here is complete bullshit. I don't care if you like Hillary or Jeb or even fucking donald trump more, but being scared that a candidate you like may win the primary just fucking pisses me off
People like you are the reason people like Bernie don't win
Uhhhhhh... I don't know about this at all. I don't know where that Spike Lee movie quote came from, but I have a hunch it may have been a joke.
"Republicans buy shoes too"
rokkerkory
Member
How about Hillary for President and Sanders for VP or vice versa?
This is exactly right and is the reason people should stop dissuading Bernie supporters because he's a weaker candidate in the general. If Hillary can't beat him, she's apparently not that strong of a candidate herself.
Of course, Hillary will beat Sanders handily precisely because she is running a strongly focused and well-organized campaign this time around. There's every indication that she's learned the right lessons from 2008. It would be nice if she could do so without going negative on Bernie, so that the democrats can head into the general unified.
no, I just think that HIllary is the better candidate and choice and not a corporate stooge. No hate in any of that.
Whaaaaat?
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Black voters have always voted Democrat. Everything you just said is total nonsense.
Here's another:
CrunchyFrog
Member
There's something wrong with the system when we feel that a vote for the candidate we want is less desirable than toeing the party line.
American Eskimo
Banned
I dont see why the people who were cheated by Obama would run out to vote on more of the same? They voted for hope and change. They have 8 years of policy to see that meant diddly squat.
Hasnt he also been struggling to have a positive approval rating?
"Obama + even more Wall Street!" is a slogan you think will get the masses out to the polls?
Mark my words: A Clinton vs Bush election would have the lowest turnout of our lifetimes.
This.
This this this.
Im not holding my nose and voting for military contractors. If Bernie loses, then Im voting for either whatever the green party throws up, or Trump.
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