Fighting Games Weekly | July 20-26 | No Gods or Kings, Only Tears

a game with simple pressure that ends quickly doesn't distinctly require invulnerable reversals in the game.

I do not prefer them
 
my ghetto birdie unblockables dawg

QisTopTier said:
More cammy grossness

nsfw

That leg omg lool
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kguhzernkwxlmoygrpts6rrh0.jpg
 
Karsticles said:
I unleashed the full fury of Bison for the first time. Felt incredible.

Edit: also, Wallach: VEX Blast x VEX Head Stomp is surprisingly good. Freaks people out to have a fireball and a teleport attack coming at the same time.

I think Bison is pretty mediocre outside of V-Trigger, but it is intentional. He basically has his own personal X-Factor, and if he touches you at all you take 500 damage and die. Your job in the first half is to not fall too far behind.
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VEX Head Stomp in general is pretty amazing. I managed to get back in and have won my last 4 or 5 matches on pad; I did an EX Head Stomp on a Nash in my last game who tried to V-Trigger dash out and it still hit him on the other end. Shit tracks hard. Edit - It doesn't have that fast of a start-up though, in the third round where I lost against Art he did Ryu's super from about full screen on reaction to me hitting V-Trigger, and VEX Head Stomp still got clipped before I got off screen.

Agree about Bison not really being that great outside of V-Trigger. His neutral game is just kind of ass, which is a really hard thing for me to get used to right now. I love the new c.HP but the rest of his normals feel pretty wack compared to older Bisons. I'm definitely playing it more defensively in the start of each round trying to find places to Psycho Reflect and get whatever damage I can until V-Trigger is ready.

Personally I think I'd prefer if he wasn't quite so feast-or-famine like this, but I don't think he's bad or anything. He's so strong in V-Trigger that it's enough to make him one of the better characters in this beta. But I'd trade some of that V-Trigger power to get s.HK back and improved walk speed.
 
Wallach said:
VEX Head Stomp in general is pretty amazing. I managed to get back in and have won my last 4 or 5 matches on pad; I did an EX Head Stomp on a Nash in my last game who tried to V-Trigger dash out and it still hit him on the other end. Shit tracks hard. Edit - It doesn't have that fast of a start-up though, in the third round where I lost against Art he did Ryu's super from about full screen on reaction to me hitting V-Trigger, and VEX Head Stomp still got clipped before I got off screen.

Agree about Bison not really being that great outside of V-Trigger. His neutral game is just kind of ass, which is a really hard thing for me to get used to right now. I love the new c.HP but the rest of his normals feel pretty wack compared to older Bisons. I'm definitely playing it more defensively in the start of each round trying to find places to Psycho Reflect and get whatever damage I can until V-Trigger is ready.

Personally I think I'd prefer if he wasn't quite so feast-or-famine like this, but I don't think he's bad or anything. He's so strong in V-Trigger that it's enough to make him one of the better characters in this beta. But I'd trade some of that V-Trigger power to get s.HK back and improved walk speed.
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Do you think the VEX Stomp is safe on block, like I do? I ran the ultimate safer test multiple times which is seeing if you can grab the opponent after, or if the grab whiffs due to blockstun. 50/50 on that, so it might just barely be safe.

I probably won't stick with Bison on release, but he is lots of fun, and I appreciate how he shuts people down and makes them play a cautious game.

I don't think his neutral is ass, but I do think he needs to turtle a lot. V-Skill builds us V-meter AND EX meter. That is pretty amazing we are immune to projectile games, basically. Kind of like Elena, but not as stupid.

I spend a lot of time in the neutral throwing out Psycho Blast and Psycho Inferno. Both are really safe on whiff. They absorb projectiles, end on frame advantage, and anti-air well. Of course, your opponent doesn't need to walk into them. They are for building meter! It only takes 3-4 heavy Infernos to get an EX bar. Bison craves meter for V-Trigger madness, but this also builds us up to a really strong approach tool like EX Blast, which beats anything aside from other EX fireballs.

Our opponents can't build meter as safely as we can. No one else has a wall of fire to put up in the neutral. Most characters leave themselves open when they perform specials, or they have fireballs, which we love to munch on. I still play an aggressive footsies game, but throwing Inferno and Blast out makes the Knee Press harder to predict and counter. Play the long game.

Yeah, he could use another good footsie normal. It is hard for him to move forward right now. c.MP and s.MK are pretty much our only good normals for poking. s.HP feel like it has so much startup. I only use it for combos. I would be 100% happy with him if s.MK got more range, Knee Press L was +1 on block, and charge time was reduced by half a second from where it is now.

Of course, I haven't explored the P cancel out of Head Stomp (before it hits), and I remember ComboFiend talking it up as a footsies tool. It might be really hard to antiair when spaced well.
 
Karsticles said:
Do you think the VEX Stomp is safe on block, like I do? I ran the ultimate safer test multiple times which is seeing if you can grab the opponent after, or if the grab whiffs due to blockstun. 50/50 on that, so it might just barely be safe.

I probably won't stick with Bison on release, but he is lots of fun, and I appreciate how he shuts people down and makes them play a cautious game.

I don't think his neutral is ass, but I do think he needs to turtle a lot. V-Skill builds us V-meter AND EX meter. That is pretty amazing we are immune to projectile games, basically. Kind of like Elena, but not as stupid.

I spend a lot of time in the neutral throwing out Psycho Blast and Psycho Inferno. Both are really safe on whiff. They absorb projectiles, end on frame advantage, and anti-air well. Of course, your opponent doesn't need to walk into them. They are for building meter! It only takes 3-4 heavy Infernos to get an EX bar. Bison craves meter for V-Trigger madness, but this also builds us up to a really strong approach tool like EX Blast, which beats anything aside from other EX fireballs.

Our opponents can't build meter as safely as we can. No one else has a wall of fire to put up in the neutral. Most characters leave themselves open when they perform specials, or they have fireballs, which we love to munch on. I still play an aggressive footsies game, but throwing Inferno and Blast out makes the Knee Press harder to predict and counter. Play the long game.

Yeah, he could use another good footsie normal. It is hard for him to move forward right now. c.MP and s.MK are pretty much our only good normals for poking. s.HP feel like it has so much startup. I only use it for combos. I would be 100% happy with him if s.MK got more range, Knee Press L was +1 on block, and charge time was reduced by half a second from where it is now.

Of course, I haven't explored the P cancel out of Head Stomp (before it hits), and I remember ComboFiend talking it up as a footsies tool. It might be really hard to antiair when spaced well.
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VEX Stomp feels safe to me with how fast it lands right in front of them, but with things being online-only and people not knowing their buttons yet I can't say for sure.

Inferno definitely is a good meter builder. I think my issue is more just that playing footsies feels like such a struggle compared to old Bison. s.MK range feels nerfed, no s.HK, and the walk speed are just such a hard thing to adjust to for me so far. In particular against Chun-Li (I didn't get to play any Cammy or Birdie players) I felt like his normals are so much weaker now. Pretty much forced to play a defensive, reactionary type of game against her.

Charge time definitely feels really similar to SF4, I'd hoped they had reduced it a bit more than they have so far. It's workable though. Not sure about LK scissors, with there not being a knockdown now I worry about making it advantage on block. You already have to guess whether a throw or more pressure is coming. Very much agree about more range on s.MK because without s.HK he needs it more than ever. It needs to hit just off the tip, whereas right now it actually hits like at his ankle. Give me that and a better walk speed and I'd feel a lot better about his footsie game (though I probably won't ever get over this fraud s.HK).

Devil's Reverse still feels a bit gimmicky; it seems safe if they block it but it isn't that hard for some characters to just punish you if they see the reverse, and actually baiting something out isn't really going to leave you with a punish due to how far out you'd have to reverse to land and not get hit by something. VEX Devil's Reverse is neat but always seems to cross-up so I don't think people will get hit by it for long (though it seems even harder to punish).
 
Clawww said:
Story stuff? don't know what it means... Nash';s winquote against himself:

"If you are HIS servant, you are just as guilty. Prepare to repent."
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A E G I S B O Y S.

Urien would be dope as the boss character, though whoever it is I hope he's at least as intimidating as Bison looks in this game
 
Lulubop said:
A E G I S B O Y S.

Urien would be dope as the boss character, though whoever it is I hope he's at least as intimidating as Bison looks in this game
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Can't really make a naked man look intimidating. Unless he has the mother (father?) of all bulges.
 
Hey folks,

Just had a brainwave on the way to the supermarket and thought I'd write it down here.

Commonly, most players rate matchups on an estimation scale of 5:5, 6:4 etc. This is supposed to represent a ratio of wins to losses playing as a certain character versus an opponent of equal high skill playing a certain character.

The problem is, this kind of estimation is really arbitrary. If you're a Rufus player who likes playing footsies, you might think the Zangief matchup is 6:4 in your favour. But if you're playing a closer-range Rufus, you might think the matchup is 6:4 against you. And you've got no real way of knowing your own skill level, or anyone else's, beyond comparison.

I think people should stop using these ratios, accept that often their matchup estimations are not that helpful, and instead avoid using numbers:

A matchup could be described like this:

Character X's wins against Character Y:

Evenly
Often (More often than not)
Usually
Almost every time

Obviously the language changes per person. But IMO I think if the scene was simply to discuss the chance matchup less and the actual matchup ("Rufus beats Zangief more often than not, because Rufus' long range normals make Gief's life really hard") more, the scenes would be a little more intelligent.

This also removes discussions like

"Man, Ryu beats Ken"
"I think it's a 6.5-3.5"
"Nah it's a 5.5-4.5"

from streams forever.

Anyway, I hope SFV is back up soon, I wanna watch more matches. :(

EDIT:

Oh yeah, fear level:

In a tournament, I worry/fear/am terrified by:

Worry:
Bison

Fear:
Hugo

Terrified:
Poison
Sagat

---

"I have a personal 3-7 matchup with Poison" is a dumb line that shouldn't exist. People should estimate less and use language more.
 
enzo_gt said:
SFV sales are going to be unfuckingbelievable if they got thousands of us addicts sitting for hours on end, day after day to just get a whiff of training mode. They already knocked it out of the park. I think we need to pre-emptively look into rehabilitation and addiction counselling.
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Capcom turning people into Fiends with the SFV beta. Prepare for the withdraws.
 
Huw_Dawson said:
The problem is, this kind of estimation is really arbitrary. If you're a Rufus player who likes playing footsies, you might think the Zangief matchup is 6:4 in your favour. But if you're playing a closer-range Rufus, you might think the matchup is 6:4 against you. And you've got no real way of knowing your own skill level, or anyone else's, beyond comparison.

I think people should stop using these ratios, accept that often their matchup estimations are not that helpful, and instead avoid using numbers:
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"These labels are arbitrary and I don't like them, please use my arbitrary labels instead"

That's what you just typed out. Your suggestion just removes the granularity of 10:1 ratio naming scheme.

Besides that presumably the match up ratio is based on the character being played optimally, or playing the match up correctly instead of doing whatever it is you feel like doing in hopes that it works.
 
Lostconfused said:
"These labels are arbitrary and I don't like them, please use my arbitrary labels instead"

That's what you just typed out.
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Obviously the language changes per person.
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?

My argument is that people should stop using pretend matchup estimation. You can't estimate how many times two invented players will beat each other. You can give an overall idea of the matchup instead - it's fair, it's quite in one character's favour, etc. Which is ultimately more useful than the neat-looking granularity of saying "I think X beats Y about six and a half times per ten games".
 
Lostconfused said:
Oh sorry, I guess everyone can just stick with the 6:5 matchups then.
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If they wanted to, I guess? But I think removing ratio estimation is better, because it removes all the pretend mathematics and guessing about ratios and keeps things more honest and relevant.

Certainly this would be more useful on commentary. Your "I picked up SF4 two weeks ago and this is the first major I'm watching" crowd doesn't care about the ratio - they care why a matchup is the way it is.
 
Huw_Dawson said:
?

My argument is that people should stop using pretend matchup estimation. You can't estimate how many times two invented players will beat each other. You can give an overall idea of the matchup instead - it's fair, it's quite in one character's favour, etc. Which is ultimately more useful than the neat-looking granularity of saying "I think X beats Y about six and a half times per ten games".
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I get your argument but I don't think it really matters. I don't think anyone hears "3:7" or "2:8" match-up in X's favor over Y and literally thinks "Okay so in 100 matches, X beats Y 70 times" or "X beats Y 80 times in 100 matches". They just understand that the match-up is heavily in X's favor. Or if someone hears "4:6", "6:4", they just understand that the match-up is fairly even. I don't think anyone considers these numbers as meticulously, empirically tested.
 
AmethystEnd said:
I get your argument but I don't think it really matters. I don't think anyone hears "3:7" or "2:8" match-up in X's favor over Y and literally thinks "Okay so in 100 matches, X beats Y 70 times" or "X beats Y 80 times in 100 matches". They just understand that the match-up is heavily in X's favor. Or if someone hears "4:6", "6:4", they just understand that the match-up is fairly even. I don't think anyone considers these numbers as meticulously, empirically tested.
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That's a fair point - it's more shorthand than anything.

Like I said, just a thought I had on the way to the shops.
 
Huw_Dawson said:
That's a fair point - it's more shorthand than anything.
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Right. In a lot of tournament settings (not majors or anything mind you), the conversations I hear are generally closer to what you were suggesting ("This match-up is heavily in X's favor", etc) and no one actually goes into the number estimates unless pressed for more information.
 
Huw_Dawson said:
If they wanted to, I guess? But I think removing ratio estimation is better, because it removes all the pretend mathematics and guessing about ratios and keeps things more honest and relevant.
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Well japanese arcades do track statistics. So you can look them up and draw your own conclusions based on real data.

http://www.ggxrd.com/pg/diagram_view.php
http://sp.uniapm.info/diagram_view.php

Edit: On a side note poor FAB he really has no idea what to do with Leo yet "ポチョムキンの対戦歴vs レオ：69勝 34敗（66％)"
 
http://capcomprotour.com/cpt-2015-a...asia-shanghai-qualifier-dates-and-event-info/

So that Shanghai ranking tournament finally released some info. It's a free tournament.

Capcom Pro Tour Asia Shanghai Qualifier will be a two day event from July 31st through August 1st. At the event players will compete to win a Playstation 4 and a trip to Singapore for the Capcom Pro Tour Asia Finals at GameStart 2015!

Signup now for free at http://www.beastapac.com and we will see you on 31st July 2015 to compete with world class players like Razer’s Xian (2013 Street Fighter IV World Champion), Razer’s Fuudo (2012 Street Fighter IV World Champion), Mad Catz’s Tokido (2013 Street Fighter IV Runner-up) and many more international players all fighting to qualify into Capcom Cup 2015 and be crowned World Champion!
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Tournament Schedule (local Shanghai time):

31st July 2015, 2pm – 10pm (Sony Store) – Qualifier Stage

1st Aug 2015 11:30am (China Joy 2015 SCE Stage) – Grand Finals
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Seems like the perfect vehicle to get Fuudo (being the only notable person listed that isn't qualified yet) some CPT points, plus an guarantee for the actual Premier event that is hosted in Singapore.



Infiltration on why he picked Juri in Losers finals at Evo, character selection, Capcom Cup, and SFV.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3f1Xb9wWZg
 
No eta on the beta coming back yet, right?

Cosmo Clock 21 said:
Big Band is the gift that keeps on giving
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iBg26afc-0
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Holy shit that's awesome.

Horseress said:
So what's the consensus on the netcode so far?
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Hard to judge so far, considering all the issues the beta has had. The 15 or so matches I played yesterday ranged from feeling like training mode, to basically being unplayable. The latter, I assume, weren't actually people from the US though.
 
Skab said:
No eta on the beta coming back yet, right?



Holy shit that's awesome.



Hard to judge so far, considering all the issues the beta has had. The 15 or so matches I played yesterday ranged from feeling like training mode, to basically being unplayable. The latter, I assume, weren't actually people from the US though.
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As far as I was aware it is coming up at 11PST

Horseress said:
So what's the consensus on the netcode so far?
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Fantastic
 
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