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Black Lives Matter shuts down a Bernie Sanders rally
- Thread starter soleil
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Fair enough, although that would be a benefit of doubt thing that, here again, works both ways.
idk, would the distinction make *that* much of a difference in terms of how you try to "relate" to one another, at least insomuch as whether such "relating" should ever need to involve shouting at and denying the other party the chance to speak?
Tin-foil hat.
Holy shit, what a waste of energy ending a Bernie Sanders rally like that. Go take that angst to the GOP where it belongs.
Truly, the left eating itself alive again. This kind of stuff is getting out of control.
I feel bad for Bernie, he looked like he was going to cry. I was also worried for his safety; it's kind of ridiculous someone can just charge the stage like that.
Will this happen to Hillary? Surely she has better security.
Truly, the left eating itself alive again. This kind of stuff is getting out of control.
I feel bad for Bernie, he looked like he was going to cry. I was also worried for his safety; it's kind of ridiculous someone can just charge the stage like that.
Will this happen to Hillary? Surely she has better security.
TheOohChild
Member
Just an absurd protest
That has always been an issue. The right can have its nuts that don't tow the line but generally they are orderly and go through the process even if gaming it at times to force change for good or ill.
Many on the left embrace the anarchist message or the revolutionary image. There is not going to be some socialist revolution or a breakdown in society that allows the anarchists to win so trying to use those methods are doomed to be ineffective.
The right amount of anarchy can help a movement but you still need the proper methods as far as politics for any real chance. Pure anarchy by itself just turns everyone against it.
UltimaPooh
Member
So essentially what the argument is that liberals should be more ideologues instead of democratic?
Not at all. The point is if you want to effect change you need more than anarchy or a revolution. Shouting down a guy who was fighting for proper treatment of Black Americans before most of these people doing so were even born is anarchy for the sake of anarchy and will not create any change
UltimaPooh
Member
I agree but that's not indicative of liberals and the political process.
There's a reason Bernie events are targeted by these individuals. 1. They aren't well guarded like Republican events as well as Hilary's and 2. It's the only side where they have a voice.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
*walks into the thread*
*Sees that it's turned into a shit load of condescending paternalism from white liberals and conservatives alike about how black people should act in a crisis.*
Ok. Here's a link on a hint as to why this keeps happening, and a way it could be stopped instead of telling black people to shut up. Tl;dr version: Bernie needs to meet with the BLM founders and other activists instead of running away from them. Bernie's followers need to stop acting like they know what's best for black people or automatically know more than black people.
Please try to listen.
Thanks.
*walks out*
*Sees that it's turned into a shit load of condescending paternalism from white liberals and conservatives alike about how black people should act in a crisis.*
Ok. Here's a link on a hint as to why this keeps happening, and a way it could be stopped instead of telling black people to shut up. Tl;dr version: Bernie needs to meet with the BLM founders and other activists instead of running away from them. Bernie's followers need to stop acting like they know what's best for black people or automatically know more than black people.
Please try to listen.
Thanks.
*walks out*
Generally speaking, there's a lot of money going towards so called grassroots movements on the right and it aligns pretty well with the mainstream right wing. I don't think the same can be said of the actual left. Plus when it comes specifically to black people who have been marginalized on all sides -- there's a reason why they embrace the more "anarchist/revolutionary" image historically.
And then there are people who think liberalism is synonymous with the left.
I agree.
The left had a structure, the unions and the union parties. Those got propagandized against and destroyed. Then the Soviet-Union fell and gone went any kind of authority or influence.
While unions aren't perfect, the way social movements swim in anarchy now (everywhere in the west) is paradise for the rightwing politicians and their corporate overlords.
Luckily we can see some change coming in Europe, slowly but surely. There is hope.
No I think the argument is that activists on the right band together and work within the system to effect change while activists on the left work outside the system seemingly to bring about a wholesale revolution or something. The right wing approach is proven to be more effective.
UltimaPooh
Member
I don't think thats true.
curlyfriski
Banned
Yes, if only Bernie could better emulate the "tough on crime" former mayor of the city that killed Freddie Gray.
freeofgreed
Member
I like Bernie Sanders but if he was about to cry from this, then he has absolutely no business being president.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Why do people bring Hillary into this as though people are posting "Bernie should be more like Hillary?" Seriously, you need to get off of that train!
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
And that's what makes it even worse. THAT guy got it more right than Bernie did.
This whole thing was really easy to solve. At least on Bernie's end. It's now becoming an avalanche because his followers are being absolutely classless in their reactions, while talking about "civility".
How you got any of that from my post is beyond me...
curlyfriski
Banned
....O'Malley
He's referring to O'Malley
Starfish Hero
Member
Having watched the video and all the tweets that came with it on the page, I get where the protesters where coming from. Initially, it didn't seem their beef was with Bernie, but with white liberals. Like, you have a guy whose supporters are overwhelmingly white, and this guy apparently offers up a pretty dismissive version of American race relations ("It's really economic inequality!") that kinda panders to his overwhelmingly white supporters. And when white liberals (I speak generally but I'm not generalizing, I assure you) often have trouble sympathizing with black people, and sometimes are just racist, is it really a mystery why he's attracting these protesters and Hillary isn't? I'm not at all a Hillary fan in part because of her past issues with relating to black people, but Hillary sees her black supporters crying out and she's addressing them now.
I can't say I'm not a bit disappointed in many GAFers responses in this thread. You don't have to agree with what these like three people did, but conspiracy theories and diet racism should be beneath us.
I can't say I'm not a bit disappointed in many GAFers responses in this thread. You don't have to agree with what these like three people did, but conspiracy theories and diet racism should be beneath us.
Attention-whores.
He and his group of protesters are attention-whores, here is why:
They know Bernie is on their side, they know he is a good fella. He simply needs to bring the issue stronger in their opinion. They also need to know that any bad news in an election can destroy a candidate, especially someone like Sanders.
But no, they want to see the world burn just to have their 15 minutes of fame and a candidate talking about their stuff. They want the validation now, the results now. Unrealistic and childish.
The economic issue is more widely popular, doesn't mean he doesn't care about race. It's simply campaigning smartly. So yeah, STFU and vote is indeed what you should do because it is the most effective thing to do.
I think voting and campaigning in midterms is a good indicator. It's unsexy and grinding work. Seems to me that right wingers do that grunt work while left wingers don't.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Ah, my bad. Nevertheless, any potential misdeeds O'Malley did in the past does not negate whether Bernie should do something he did or not. If O'Malley is a shithead and made a good decision, you shouldn't avoid emulating it just because of who made it.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
I'll ask you since it's been avoided already:
What will BLM gain from having Bernie sit down with them? What else does Bernie have to offer that he doesn't already do? You can call these protests poorly done and still be supportive of BLM.
UltimaPooh
Member
I mean it does stem from economic policies. There are specific economic policies that effect the black community only but the point behind economic restructuring or reforming economic policies is it creates more opportunities for the black community such as opportunities in education, opportunities in the job market, opportunities in where they live, opportunities in a lot of different areas. This also crosses over with other classes and other races so that's why centrally it's all an economic problem.
InsaneZero
Member
Excusing the poor behavior of other individuals that supposedly act on the behalf of a movement with the explanations of "he deserved it" and "those people don't really represent us" is eerily reminiscent of GamerGate. And that's not a good thing.
So all BLM wants is some pie in the sky reform plan proposed that will never happen?
Or maybe they want push politicians closer to their position and Sanders is a small enough guy so that he can actually be influenced.
I think protesting him is misguided because it's actually helping the mainstream Democratic Party candidate, rather than the more progressive candidate who was never actually taking their vote for granted. But I don't think it's intentionally to damage him or that they're just looking for attention.
curlyfriski
Banned
The point is focusing on poor "messaging" and talking up the campaign promises of a guy whose political record is built around policies of cracking down on crime that helped cause the murder of a black man by the police is a breathtaking case of prioritizing the trivial over the significant. It makes you look like a political lightweight.
Marauder Shields
Member
Apparently so. Seems like an easy bunch to please.
Starfish Hero
Member
But you see why this is dismissive, right? Like, police officers aren't disproportionately harassing black people because they see the poor on them.
Bill Squabber
Member
Putting on my tinfoil hat. I swear they're actors. Just something that doesn't seem genuine about their protest. Like when the lady is yelling after he says they can talk after Bernie, it just seemed off.
benicillin
Banned
That is such a gross oversimplification of his view on American race relations, and it's not difficult to look through this thread (or even Google) and see what Sanders has actually said, particularly since the Netroot thing as he has since been much more outspoken and straightforward about racial issues in the country.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Because Bernie's the only one who can fix the problem, because his followers sure won't, see this thread and social media in general as to why.
Like, a conspiracy theory? REALLY?
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Sure, a month or two ago he was pretty bad at that, but he's made improvements. Every speech he mentions Black Lives Matters and the name of an individual that was killed unarmed, and talking about the mass incarceration that same system is talking about.
He learned, he was right to learn, and now we're legit wondering what more do you want?
I mean, even that article says he's listening and doing better.
Believe me I'm listening, but I'm not hearing what he's done wrong since the original protests opened his eyes to the problem.
I cant tell if you are talking about Bernie supporters here or the BLM people.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Except he also has talked about wanting police accountability and to end mass incarceration. The "He only talks about economics" rhetoric is bullshit. Economics are the center of his campaign because he has to appeal to the entire country, but it isn't the only damn thing he talks about.
Well, then Sanders should release a plan like O'malley did. I don't think the plan O'Malley released should be characterized as "pie in the sky" either. Progressives need to fight for reform that is meaningful, not just reform that sounds good.
Unless Sanders already released a plan and I am not aware of it.
Unless Sanders already released a plan and I am not aware of it.
I don't know man. I'm in politics myself and love to criticize my party and hear criticism or things that should be improved. However, if it's election time only votes count (as in no unneeded discussions).
Scaring people away from voting is deadly, you need to be 1 front.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Can I get a link to this plan? I haven't read it but it'd be nice to see.
Starfish Hero
Member
So... mission accomplished? If what these protesters are doing is working, why the controversy?
I'm not saying he only talks about economics. But saying racial inequality is an economic issue and not a racial one is dismissive.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
I agree with that, he's improved. But he still has ways to go, and this shut down proved that again. He needs to meet with them, the founders of #BLM and other activists. They aren't some boogeywomen or something. His campaign won't die in flames if he were to address primarily black crowds every now and then, engage them.
And if he can do something to shut the traps of the many people harassing black folks throughout social media because of this, that'd be great too.
UltimaPooh
Member
I can see that.
I'm merely just pointing out that a lot of issues when it comes to race and class can be solved through new economic policies.
Getting our police forces to be accountable and respectful to all races is a different matter and I am totally for the subject being discussed and being on the fore front of issues going into the election.
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