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[Zeus Molecules]

That doesn't look bad but I don't think those were the grounds Roissey/Heartiste was stomping at.

r/fPUA looks more interesting, from women's perspective.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/ is a more up to date reddit of what a lot of these guys are like. Some of them stick to seduction but for the most part that whole PUA community has become a lot more over arching in their beliefs. I am also pretty sure that the PUA guys became the Men's Right movement.

 

[Messofanego]

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/ is a more up to date reddit of what a lot of these guys are like. Some of them stick to seduction but for the most part that whole PUA community has become a lot more over arching in their beliefs. I am also pretty sure that the PUA guys became the Men's Right movement.

Oh yeah that's the fucked up place that I dare not visit for my sanity

There was that brutal Scott Benson animation video that summed up Red Pillers/MRAs:

But I'm A Nice Guy

 

[excelsiorlef]

I was just thinking "there's no way there could be a defense force for this man on NeoGAF" until you quoted this post. Wooow.

And I quoted waaay too soon, a huge middle portion of this thread has like 3 or 4 defense forcers (of varying types)

Still only a few but still, fascinating.

 

[A Link to the Past]

And I quoted waaay too soon, a huge middle portion of this thread has like 3 or 4 defense forcers (of varying types)

Still only a few but still, fascinating.

That's what I get for skimming

 

[Zeus Molecules]

Oh yeah that's the fucked up place that I dare not visit for my sanity

There was that brutal Scott Benson animation video that summed up Red Pillers/MRAs:

But I'm A Nice Guy

lmao yep that is basically that whole reddit in 40 seconds

 

[Cizeta-Moroder]

You don't date much do you?

You don't have do veer to the other end of the horseshoe from this Roosh V fellow.

Joke posts?

Even if I was desirable, I couldn't date with good conscience.
What other end? Are you calling me out for misandry or something?

I can't tell if you're trolling, or someone who desperately needs to be in therapy.

Oh I wish therapy could change facts. Besides, there's no way I could bring this subject up with my therapist.

lol wat

I give dating advice all the time. If 'be confident in yourself' , 'make sure to not look a slob', and 'don't try to get with a girl already in a relationship' are rapey, well, then... shit, a lot of people are fucked, because they legit need this stuff to be taught to them.

Also, this:



And dating advice is not mutually exclusive. Oftentimes they're one and the same.

A lot of people are fucked, well, too bad. They were destined to fail. Not everyone is entitled to success.

Hating on the straight white male bogeyman in pretty de rigueur, but even so, this...



How are you defining value here?

Burden of definition isn't on me. What value is there?

No, that's not the way people work. This sounds like shit lonely people say to excuse themselves from ever trying.

Excuse... or principles that will prevent undesirables from harassing, raping or creeping out decent folk? What good could come from trying?

but what if i'm genuinely trying to improve myself, or is that semantic sacrilege?

No such thing.

Just kill yourself. I mean, you're impersonating a person, you collection of molecules raised from the earth. Be genuine and return to being worm food!

Then again, even suicide is frowned upon.

There should be "put down artists" for these kind of people.

If you know

what I

mean

WINK WINK

yes

 

[John Kowalski]

wat

bruh i need some splainin

 

[cntr]

Holy shit, Cizeta-Moroder. We sure are getting the extremes in this thread, aren't we?

 

[Messofanego]

Even if I was desirable, I couldn't date with good conscience.
What other end? Are you calling me out for misandry or something?

Oh I wish therapy could change facts. Besides, there's no way I could bring this subject up with my therapist.

A lot of people are fucked, well, too bad. They were destined to fail. Not everyone is entitled to success.


Burden of definition isn't on me. What value is there?

Excuse... or principles that will prevent undesirables from harassing, raping or creeping out decent folk? What good could come from trying?


No such thing.


Then again, even suicide is frowned upon.



yes

You know, Cizeta-Moroder, you could just say you're not into dating or ever will be. Rather than denigrating anyone who tries it. Or getting into tangents about misandry, therapy, or suicide...

 

[Brakke]

man did you just discover nihilism or something yikes I hope you find a way to work some of that shit out woof such heavy pessimism

 

[RionaaM]

You know, Cizeta-Moroder, you could just say you're not into dating or ever will be. Rather than denigrating anyone who tries it. Or getting into tangents about misandry, therapy, or suicide...

I don't think they are denigrating other people. If anything, I think their post is a very sincere explanation of how they truly feel deep inside, projected upon "those in need of some kind of advice" but actually speaking about themselves. It reads like what someone who lacks any kind of self-esteem would say. But I'm no psychologist, and I'm talking out of my ass here.

Cizeta-Moroder, if you ever feel like talking to some random fool on the internet to vent or whatever, feel free to PM me. I'm serious.

 

[BUNTING1243]

Hah that shitty MRA/Gamergate focused site died already? That's like the 3rd one. Guess it's time to see if the Escapist regrets hiring a handful of them in a few months.

I checked in to see if that transphobic Gamergater they hired a few months back actually ever wrote anything and NOPE! defy's publicity grab.

 

[Silver Arrows]

You know, Cizeta-Moroder, you could just say you're not into dating or ever will be. Rather than denigrating anyone who tries it. Or getting into tangents about misandry, therapy, or suicide...

Such a shame he took a good name too.

 

[Lord Thrappleper The 49th]

So 37,000 canadians said they didn't want him in the government let him in.

Yet another reason why I will never trust politicians.

 

[thekad]

I'm missing where the coercion is. Making yourself more appealing is coercing who exactly?

Women, obviously. It's by definition coercive.

 

[neogaffer1]

So 37,000 canadians said they didn't want him in the government let him in.

Yet another reason why I will never trust politicians.

i mean 37,000 people in the us probably would've signed a petition to force obama to resign if they thought it would work.

no matter how you spin it 37,000 is a small fraction of canada's population, and that's before you even argue the merits of whether the wants of the majority override the given freedom of one person.

 

[Lord Thrappleper The 49th]

i mean 37,000 people in the us probably would've signed a petition to force obama to resign if they thought it would work.

no matter how you spin it 37,000 is a small fraction of canada's population, and that's before you even argue the merits of whether the wants of the majority override the given freedom of one person.

How many canadians said they wanted him in?

Or is silence consent with you?

 

[Two Words]

Women, obviously. It's by definition coercive.

How is making yourself more appealing coercimg women into anything? Are you not operating with this definition of coercion?

co·er·cion
kōˈərZHən,kōˈərSHən
noun
the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.

 

[cntr]

I don't think they are denigrating other people. If anything, I think their post is a very sincere explanation of how they truly feel deep inside, projected upon "those in need of some kind of advice" but actually speaking about themselves. It reads like what someone who lacks any kind of self-esteem would say. But I'm no psychologist, and I'm talking out of my ass here.

Cizeta-Moroder, if you ever feel like talking to some random fool on the internet to vent or whatever, feel free to PM me. I'm serious.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is it.

Cizeta, I can't help you with all your issues now, but let me just say that your beliefs about yourself and what the world "means" make them seem that way. That's why we stuff like scientiific method is so rigorous -- it needs to defeat the way human perception distorts the world.

Your perceptions are not the truth of the world -- they're a realizaiton of your ideas of how the world works. Your brain will go incredibly far to make this work, down to editing memories and forcing yourself not to notice anything that doesn't fit your world. Just look at the conspiracy thread.

You'll need to convince yourself to change your beliefs, no matter how hard it might be. Because if you don't, you'll never take your life back.

 

[neogaffer1]

How many canadians said they wanted him in?

Or is silence consent with you?

you're completely missing my point if you think the number of canadians who wanted him in matters at all here.

 

[Lord Thrappleper The 49th]

you're completely missing my point if you think the number of canadians who wanted him in matters at all here.

What other point than; 37,000 people said no. 7-9 people who think like him said yes. Probably shouldn't let him in, should be considered?

Personal freedom of 1 assmunch doesn't matter when so many people said no.

 

[Two Words]

What other point than; 37,000 people said no. 7-9 people who think like him said yes. Probably shouldn't let him in, should be considered?

Personal freedom of 1 assmunch doesn't matter when so many people said no.

Do you think civil liberties are up for a vote? If the majority of people suddenly want segregation to come back, do you think they should be able to vote it back?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

i mean 37,000 people in the us probably would've signed a petition to force obama to resign if they thought it would work.

no matter how you spin it 37,000 is a small fraction of canada's population, and that's before you even argue the merits of whether the wants of the majority override the given freedom of one person.

Compare the president to an admitted rapist

 

[Two Words]

Compare the president to an admitted rapist

Why does that matter in the discussion of civil liberties?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Why does that matter in the discussion of civil liberties?

If you want to avoid all context to win an argument on a technicality, I suppose it doesn't

 

[Two Words]

If you want to avoid all context to win an argument on a technicality, I suppose it doesn't

The context is that you don't like him. That doesn't matter in civil liberty discussions.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

The context is that you don't like him. That doesn't matter in civil liberty discussions.

Yes, I'm sure that's the extent of the context.

 

[Two Words]

Yes, I'm sure that's the extent of the context.

Okay, what context am I missing then? When it comes down to it, civil liberties should not be a popularity contest. It shouldn't be up for vote.

 

[neogaffer1]

Compare the president to an admitted rapist

If you want to avoid all context to win an argument on a technicality, I suppose it doesn't

Yes, I'm sure that's the extent of the context.

the comparison was just to show that 37k is a small enough minority that you can find almost any cause that at least that many people would back. it was just to show how insignificant that amount of people really are in a country of 35 million. It's only when you have a sizeable amount of people, a large enough percentage, that you can start to even think about whether it is fundamentally right to strip civil liberties from a single person just because a group of people want to.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Okay, what context am I missing then? When it comes down to it, civil liberties should not be a popularity contest. It shouldn't be up for vote.

The petition didn't work, so apparently some people agree with you. However, the opposition to people's opposition to an admitted, unapologetic, and predatory rapist being among them on the basis of civil liberties seems misguided, at least to me.

 

[Lord Thrappleper The 49th]

Why does that matter in the discussion of civil liberties?

I honestly believe civil liberties shouldn't be given to somebody who wants to take away an innocent person's civil liberties.

 

[neogaffer1]

I honestly believe civil liberties shouldn't be given to somebody who wants to take away an innocent person's civil liberties.

that's your opinion and you are entitled to it, but that isn't how our society is built and I would argue that it is better off not being built that way.

 

[cntr]

Okay, what context am I missing then? When it comes down to it, civil liberties should not be a popularity contest. It shouldn't be up for vote.

The actual context is that the petition would never be enough to ban him. It was more to get Canadian authorities to notice him and then decide whether to not allow him in.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

one of these days a dog is gonna chew his balls off so he has to get surgery but the surgeon knows him and sews his balls to his chin

 

[Lord Thrappleper The 49th]

that's your opinion and you are entitled to it, but that isn't how our society is built and I would argue that it is better off not being built that way.

I would respectfully disagree with you. I do hope that one day people the advocate the rights of monsters and criminals are treated the same as those they campaign for. This man literally 'wants' to rape women. He literally 'believes' that women are subserviant to men. This behaviour should be punishable with the same harshness as actually doing the deed in my opinion.

 

[charlequin]

"Be the best version of yourself" is just a sneaky way of saying "change yourself in order to trick women into liking you."

People don't actually have "true selves" that are some platonic distillation of their qualities, like stats on a D&D character sheet; a person's "real" self is defined in large part by their actions and behavior. When we say it's wrong to deceive someone in pursuit of sex, it's because it's wrong to materially misrepresent oneself (lying about marital status, sexual history, or other relevant factual elements.) Presenting yourself as confident when you have a history of social anxiety isn't a material lie.

I know people who present ideas like this think that they're being respectful of things like sexual liberty when advancing this kind of position, but in actuality the idea that people have innate, immutable personalities and can't be honest without expressing them exactly as they currently are does far more to give cover to sexual misconduct than to push back against it.

 

[neogaffer1]

I would respectfully disagree with you. I do hope that one day people the advocate the rights of monsters and criminals are treated the same as those they campaign for. This man literally 'wants' to rape women. He literally 'believes' that women are subserviant to men. This behaviour should be punishable with the same harshness as actually doing the deed in my opinion.

and I would argue that very stringent view of justice undermines the idea of free speech and paves the way for more extreme measures and more totalitarian governments..

 

[jstripes]

So 37,000 canadians said they didn't want him in the government let him in.

Yet another reason why I will never trust politicians.

Online petitions are kinda bullshit.

They're good for drawing attention to something, but they're not really binding in any sort of way whatsoever.

 

[Lord Thrappleper The 49th]

and I would argue that very stringent view of justice undermines the idea of free speech and paves the way for more extreme measures and more totalitarian governments..

Which, personally, is what I want politically. I believe that extreme times call for extreme measures.

Online petitions are kinda bullshit.

They're good for drawing attention to something, but they're not really binding in any sort of way whatsoever.

A few online petitions to change verdicts, deport people, and generally getting rid of undesirables have worked in my country. So it can work, but maybe on on geographical location.

 

[neogaffer1]

Which, personally, is what I want politically. I believe that extreme times call for extreme measures.

 

[thekad]

People don't actually have "true selves" that are some platonic distillation of their qualities, like stats on a D&D character sheet; a person's "real" self is defined in large part by their actions and behavior. When we say it's wrong to deceive someone in pursuit of sex, it's because it's wrong to materially misrepresent oneself (lying about marital status, sexual history, or other relevant factual elements.) Presenting yourself as confident when you have a history of social anxiety isn't a material lie.

This is a very odd demarcation. If anything, it's less bad to lie about material things - STDs, excluded - than to lie about facts of your personality. Either way, it's deceitful.

 

[charlequin]

This is a very odd demarcation. If anything, it's less bad to lie about material things - STDs, excluded - than to lie about facts of your personality. Either way, it's deceitful.

There's no such thing as "facts" about a person's personality. That is a fabrication, a useful abstraction for explaining current patterns of behavior that can and do change dramatically over time. There's no sense in which personality traits like "I'm shy" are comparable to factual statements about the world, much less statements like "I don't clean up well" which don't even describe personality traits, just specific behavioral trends.

There is basically no part of human society anywhere on the globe that is functional with a model like the one you're proposing. Everyone presents cultivated personalities to other people every time they leave the house or even ramble on the Internet. This kind of claim is actually more bizarre than (and almost as destructive as) the PUA nonsense that this thread is actually about, which is really not something I thought I'd be saying when I came in.

 

[Bass260]

Oh yeah that's the fucked up place that I dare not visit for my sanity

There was that brutal Scott Benson animation video that summed up Red Pillers/MRAs:

But I'm A Nice Guy

Haha this is so spot on.

 

[KiwiLannister]

There's no such thing as "facts" about a person's personality. That is a fabrication, a useful abstraction for explaining current patterns of behavior that can and do change dramatically over time. There's no sense in which personality traits like "I'm shy" are comparable to factual statements about the world, much less statements like "I don't clean up well" which don't even describe personality traits, just specific behavioral trends.

There is basically no part of human society anywhere on the globe that is functional with a model like the one you're proposing. Everyone presents cultivated personalities to other people every time they leave the house or even ramble on the Internet. This kind of claim is actually more bizarre than (and almost as destructive as) the PUA nonsense that this thread is actually about, which is really not something I thought I'd be saying when I came in.

You articulate it very well.

The same argument can be used to say that women who wear makeup are liars. Should it be considered rape if a woman has sex with you while wearing makeup? Obviously not.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

This is a very odd demarcation. If anything, it's less bad to lie about material things - STDs, excluded - than to lie about facts of your personality. Either way, it's deceitful.

Can you give actual examples of "facts about your personality" that are ... worse to lie about than say:

- lying about your income

- lying about having kids

- lying about your profession

or something similar?

You seem to be suggesting "lying about your personality" is one of the worst things ever, but I honestly can't picture what you have in mind when saying that.

 

[Two Words]

I would respectfully disagree with you. I do hope that one day people the advocate the rights of monsters and criminals are treated the same as those they campaign for. This man literally 'wants' to rape women. He literally 'believes' that women are subserviant to men. This behaviour should be punishable with the same harshness as actually doing the deed in my opinion.

Thought crimes, eh?

 

[A Link to the Past]

Thought crimes, eh?

Hate crime :v

 

[Dennis]

Buy my PUA ebook pls.

"Chapter 1:

Do be attractive. Don't be unattractive"

The End."

Oh dammit, I just gave it all away. I blew it.

 

[Gr1mLock]

Buy my PUA ebook pls.

"Chapter 1:

Do be attractive. Don't be unattractive"

The End."

Oh dammit, I just gave it all away. I blew it.

Don't worry. You can still make make cash off the 'If you're ugly make sure you're rich' sequel.

 

[cntr]

There is basically no part of human society anywhere on the globe that is functional with a model like the one you're proposing. Everyone presents cultivated personalities to other people every time they leave the house or even ramble on the Internet. This kind of claim is actually more bizarre than (and almost as destructive as) the PUA nonsense that this thread is actually about, which is really not something I thought I'd be saying when I came in.

We don't even need to consciously make these "personae". We develop our sense of language and thought from the people we interact with, automatically.

Like, if I read an angry rant against whatever, I've noticed I automatically feel more skeptical towards the thing the rant was about, even if I disagree completely with it. I type like most people do on GAF, just as I type like most people do on nerdy IRC channels when talking there, but at no point did I ever consciously decide to start talking like that. It was all automatic.

This is why so many self-help books go on huge rambling stories and anecdotes -- it's to prime you to think like what they want you to think like. Similarly with advertisements.