LTTP: Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together. I CAN'T LET GO!

I started playing this and went on the order path a while ago. I remember nothing. I also remember
being disturbed by making the choice you are forced to make to go order.

Maybe I should restart...
 
I started playing this and went on the order path a while ago. I remember nothing. I also remember
being disturbed by making the choice you are forced to make to go order.

Maybe I should restart...

There's a story log in the warren report iirc, should catch you up on events.
 
GAF, why is this game not revered like it should be? It's one of the best games of its kind, a king of the genre. And why aren't there more? There should be more.

It was #7 in the famitsu top 100 games of all time whereas FFT is like in the 80s.

It just isn't revered in the West because people haven't played it. Final Fantasy 7 was many people's first rpg, just like FFT was their first srpg.
 
Disregard maps

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Still haven't been able to catch this on sale in the Aus PSN store :(

Am very interested to get this (and FFT too) though just have to have the patience
 
There's a story log in the warren report iirc, should catch you up on events.

The Warren Report is really good, yeah. For catching up, there's a cinematic viewer, a story timeline (showing which path you took, the events you've seen, etc), a list of medals (which are basically the player's accomplishments in-game) a full codex for characters listing their bios up to that point, and a full list of party stats for your campaign thus far. It's very comprehensive.

The Warren Report and Chariot System (plus the help button for everything) really make TO shine so much brighter. It's the little things that you don't think about that add the most.
i've always thought it was, at least by those of us who appreciates srpgs (which, unfortunately, has never been enough of us)...

It was #7 in the famitsu top 100 games of all time whereas FFT is like in the 80s.

It just isn't revered in the West because people haven't played it. Final Fantasy 7 was many people's first rpg, just like FFT was their first srpg.

I guess this sums it up. I wish they were on top of the world, but at least they're appreciated critically somewhere, and not just by fans.

The Ogre series really is something special.
 
It was #7 in the famitsu top 100 games of all time whereas FFT is like in the 80s.

It just isn't revered in the West because people haven't played it. Final Fantasy 7 was many people's first rpg, just like FFT was their first srpg.
I blame no SNES release and an extremely limited print on the PS1 version.
 
The Warren Report is really good, yeah. For catching up, there's a cinematic viewer, a story timeline (showing which path you took, the events you've seen, etc), a list of medals (which are basically the player's accomplishments in-game) a full codex for characters listing their bios up to that point, and a full list of party stats for your campaign thus far. It's very comprehensive.

The Warren Report and Chariot System (plus the help button for everything) really make TO shine so much brighter. It's the little things that you don't think about that add the most.

Most definitely. Unlocking all the events to fill out the Warren Report and reading all production notes for the music was freaking great.
 
I agree OP, one of the best game ever.

But it is hard, some battles can last very long.

FFT is like LUCT-Lite, both great games but totally different level.
 
One of my favourite games. I always thought it was well regarded here on GAF, every PSP thread will have it recommended and there is always someone mentioning they prefer it over FFT and vice versa.

Something I appreciate in this series is that some characters, locations and factions comes from the sequels. Lans is the main character from a previous Ogre Battle game this makes some of the story events more impactful.
 
One of the greatest games ever. There is only 1 problem I see with the game and that's the leveling new classes. Getting a new class when most of yours are above 30+ should've been tweaked a little better. Everything else is amazing. So much content. Matsuno's new game has some tough shoes to fill.
 
Likely my second favorite game, hovering somewhere between Deus Ex and Warcraft II, FF Tactics, GTA V, or Shadowrun (Sega).

First time I saw Tactics Ogre, I was rather enamoured by it. GameFan in... late 1994 or early 1995. Super Mario 64 and I think still at that point the 'Ultra 64' were on the cover. GameFan used to preview Japanese games, and that issue was Tactics Ogre. I hadn't played Ogre Battle yet at that point and never knew much about it other than seeing it a few times in EGM, GamePro, etc. But the first time I saw that preview, I was drawn to it. Namely, the Dungeons & Dragons + 'war and politics' element. It talked of creating or recruiting characters, an Alignment system and difficult political story choices that changed the story. The sprites felt like the small sketches you'd see in a Dungeons & Dragon manual: shops with bottles, swords, bags scattered around with a dragon head on the wall.

Approaching Tactics Ogre, or FF Tactics for that matter, like a sort of Dungeons & Dragons tactical RPG is always been the appeal of it for me. I'll create a personalized and flavoured 'theme' of sorts: zealous holy knights, war mages and sages, a squad of lizardmen hired by a rich priest, swordsmen from the far east, mixed ethnicity mercenaries or nationalist band of Walsta soldiers.

The new upgraded version of Tactics Ogre compliments this approach IMO. While I do miss a few of the original elements such as alignment no longer being required for certain classes and also the elemental affinity. But I think the changes make personalization and adding 'role play flavour' more capable. The new leveling system is a bit odd at first, but I like it now. I reconcile why a 'powerful story character' would be 'Lv1' like this. Class levels are basically your army outfitting, like a supply chain or barracks support system. At what level can your army support Knights, for example, or Archers. Then, your Skill system is really the 'personal' ability or what character levels represent in a classic sense -- how skilled a character is. So, even if a character is highly skilled, they may be only a Level 7 Knight because your army only has that ability to support Knights with that level of gear, training, maintenance, etc. That sort of POV helps me reconcile the obvious why is this powerful character now suddenly a Lv1 White Knight or Lv1 Ranger... They still have the skills but your army has just no infrastructure to support Lv30 Rangers. So, that support system needs experience.... it needs to 'level up.'

That new skill system, and also item twinking, are also a big reason why the leveling system works, and also why I like the new systems. Class Levels really determine only about half your power. The rest is based on Skills, such as weapon proficiency (give you very important special attacks), status resistance, monster-attack strengths (e.g. bonus against dragons), and general bonuses to counter, parry, health, etc. The game has new itemization where items have new bonuses (thrust, slash, crush that are strong against certain monster types, or direct bonuses against monster types) that are not completely new to the game but have changed a bit because of the new skill system. Further, there's a great if not incredibly slow, boring, and cheesy crafting system that, when combined with the Skill and Item descriptions above, make 'twinking' a large part of Tactics Ogre. It's on par with something like Diablo 2 twinking.

A highly twinked Lv10 with higher quality crafted items, the best skills, and the best item choices for an area will be probably 2-3x stronger than a generic Lv10 character that just reached Lv10 for the first time and is wearing just what seem to be the highest damage/armor items.One reason is because the skill system is very important and has a large effect on your overall effectiveness. The second reason is often lower level items are the best option for any given area because usually +thrusting or +lizardmen make a much larger difference just 2 or 3 more damage or armor. So, a character twinked with full +1 higher quality items that are specifically chosen based on utility for a map (e.g. all humanoid gear and thrusting, or all lizardmen gear and crushing), with skills chosen based on those opponents will be significantly stronger. So, this results in a big opportunity to go back and 'twink' your classes because you need to level every class individually.

The characteristics of battle locations on the map also help this. Every location has a few pre-set battles but with pre-set 'Skills'. The levels of the enemies scale based on your level, as do their item levels, but their skills do not. So, early map locations have very low-skill enemies and less enemy type variety. So, just humanoids and lizardman with no real weapon proficiency in areas on the map close to the starting area. But the farther west of north you go, enemies have stronger skills, and also more enemy variety -- making enemy type skills less valuable because instead of just facing lizardmen (easy enough to give everyone just +Lizardmen and +lizardmen weapon types, e.g. crushing), you'll get a larger variety of demons, ghost, beasts, dragons, and golems, forcing you to be smart of which +dragon, +ghost, etc skills you use, what +vs dragons, vs ghost armor you wear, and your balance of crushing, thrusting, slashing.

Basically, all this combines to better give a 'theme' to your army. Even the leveling +stat system sort of rewards synced battle group themes. It rewards a group of lizardmen hunters all equipped with certain leather caps and battle hammers, and lizardmen hunting and perhaps defensive attributes. But, then when you're heading into the forest, it rewards to switching to thrusting weapons, dragon hunting skills, breath resistant armor, and short bows to avoid counters; focusing less on heavy defense and perhaps mobile light-equipped swordsmen with ranged for beasts, and so forth. It gives you more tools to make every map and battle a sort of 'themed story' with a plan, and reward 'theme' to your item sets, skill sets, and chosen classes.

There's often no such thing as a 'best build': it rewards you for tailoring the utility of all your strengths and weaknesses, weapon types and resistances, skills and gear, for every vastly different map or enemy type. And this gives you a chance to add roleplaying flavour and theme to every battle.

In general, I felt all these new characteristics to leveling have made it easier to add flavour or personality to your army and its theme, and in general make leveling more interesting, rewarding, and enjoyable. Even though I think Tactics Ogre (SFC) is an overall better game for its time than FF Tactics, I had replayed FFT more often because it just gives you more tools to customize your army and general stronger replay value. But now, PSV version of Tactics Ogre has the best toolset for general role playing IMO. Deus Ex is rather secure as my favorite game, but that runner-up position is usually well fortified against those other aforementioned titles by Tactics Ogre.
 
Great post, Kyan. I hadn't ever considered "theming" my combat party like that, but doing "hunting" as you describe is a really good argument in favour of it. Like right now, in Act 4, I've basically run with the same party for most of the game and now I'm paying the price. (I seem to be biased against spellcasters, just like I was in FFT, and it makes some of the battles a pain due to resistances vs. physical.)

Also, y'know, I want my lizardman to be strong. I really do. But he's the weakest, slowest, most ineffective member of my party and he hates me as well. ...Smhak, why do you suck while Canopus is a god?
 
I remember I made two characters for role playing at the beginning. I leveled then and often brought them into larger battles where I didn't have to fear missing out on dialogue if I didn't take specific units into the fight.

If they ever make a sequel I hope there is a little icon/animation when you select characters terms from your roster for volunteers/those who has some significance in the battle story wise.

Any ways. I really enjoyed my little duo until I learned of creating Cursed Weapons... T__T
Technically they never left my army but I still feel like a monster.
 
I really enjoyed my little duo until I learned of creating Cursed Weapons... T__T
Technically they never left my army but I still feel like a monster.
I have 3 low Loyalty Lodis soldiers... they never agree with what I do, and speak behind my back...

But I keep them in the wings, slowly leveling, just content enough. Training them, growing them...

Little do they know why I keep them....
 
I really wish I had the time to play this game. FFT is in my top 10 games ever, but being a "grown up" thinking about having to put 60+ hours into this just to beat it makes me turn away every time. so sad :(
 
I really wish I had the time to play this game. FFT is in my top 10 games ever, but being a "grown up" thinking about having to put 60+ hours into this just to beat it makes me turn away every time. so sad :(

Two of my friends went through this shortly after their most recent kids were born...

Portable + sleep mode man, it is the path to completing games again :D
 
I really wish I had the time to play this game. FFT is in my top 10 games ever, but being a "grown up" thinking about having to put 60+ hours into this just to beat it makes me turn away every time. so sad :(
Tactics Ogre has some features that allow it to be played-while-busy because it's sometimes able play almost like a smartphone sim game, in that the game has a rather capable auto-play system. On one of my files, I use auto-play all the time to sort of keep my characters leveling on my TV in my office (PSTV), and the AI settings stay between battles. Add in the great Suspend/Resume, and it makes it rather convenient to sort of play the game kind of like a tactical management game where you send your army out and they fight on their own almost like a screensaver on your TV, sort of like a B Spec in Gran Turismo, FarmVille or something, or FF CC My Life as a King, where you're main gameplay is the manager of an army that can fight for itself.
 
I have 3 low Loyalty Lodis soldiers... they never agree with what I do, and speak behind my back...

But I keep them in the wings, slowly leveling, just content enough. Training them, growing them...

Little do they know why I keep them....

I remember suffering through hours of the crafting pot. I don't think it compares to grinding for your perfect cursed weapon though. From the growing to the feeding of steaks and tarots to the waiting for the alignment of the stars to set the correct stats for your weapon. I only had two properly crafted ones but that burned me out completely. Thank God they were unnecessary for the most part.
 
Tactics Ogre's pretty much the best game ever.

True.

GAF, why is this game not revered like it should be?

It's not?

Many things have been touched on already, but the characters and writing are some of the best in the genre, the chariot and world systems are great for convenience and replayability, tons of rewarding optional content, lots of loot, and of course a great class system.

It's also -- I would say by a pretty decisive margin -- the best late-period upgraded port/remake I can think of.

Which one is recommended to play first? I don't want to start one and be disappointed in the next due to battle system and story. I suppose both aspects are subjective but from what I read Tactics is most often preferred over FFT.

They're both extraordinarily good. I'd say Tactics Ogre definitely has the lead in storytelling with its multiple pathways and no need to hew to the FF brand, plus it's got bigger parties and more interesting secondary systems; FFT is generally a better-looking game, I'd say it has a notably better Sakimoto/Iwata soundtrack (though both are phenomenal) and it has an addictive individual-character customization/development system based on FF5 that TO doesn't match for me. I think generally one could play in either order without being disappointed.
 
It's a great game, though the original SNES/PSX is still better in many respects when it comes to progression and the actual combat. I wish someone would make a fan mod to make the PSP version of the game less of a cakewalk and fix how horribly unbalanced it is. Not that the original game lacked balance issues, but this remake somehow made it even worse.
 
I remember suffering through hours of the crafting pot. I don't think it compares to grinding for your perfect cursed weapon though. From the growing to the feeding of steaks and tarots to the waiting for the alignment of the stars to set the correct stats for your weapon. I only had two properly crafted ones but that burned me out completely.

Thank God they were unnecessary for the most part.

Yeah that's the one thing with the balance. The Canopus reference above, too.

I wish they had improved the balance between melee and ranged (namely one-slot short bows) a bit more. On that front, similar to, say, Zodiac Spear in FF XII or Calculator or Thunder God Cid in FF Tactics, I usually just sort of accept it and try not to abuse it -- putting what 'I like' first, and just accepting the added challenge as a natural component.

And, for all the massive 'mastering' depth added, matching balanced content wasn't added in the same way. The twinking mastering works well I think because I think it's still very rewarding to have an incredibly twinked, say, Lv5 swordsman because if you're facing Lv8 dragons and griffons, those are still formiddable.

However, once you're getting into fully mastered classes, weapons, etc... there's a lack of matching enemies to actually use them on. It's still awesome to have that extra room for progression (I would never not want it) but I wish there were stronger optional bosses. More Ruby Weapons, Yiazmats, etc. But again, even if there is not enough difficult content to match it, there's still an incredible amount of content between dark dungeon and CODA, and all the possibly reasons to go through things to try get everything -- and all that extra building of weapons and stats still aids that speed at which you can trek through all that.

But I wish there had been... like, one sort of extra 'invasion dungeon.' Like a set of battle maps where you actually attack a sort Lodis coastal base that genuinely requires a perfectly mastered, all characters mastered and perfect, army where you can basically put all the 100s of hours you put into that perfect army into 1 final last challenge. One sort of final test and culmination that makes all that mastering feel like it fits the game lore and has a point.
 
I keep meaning to jump into this, and I just finished beating a long SRPG on my vita and was deciding on what should be my next one. This thread has convinced me. Finally time to take the plunge!
 
It's a fantastic little gem. I tried not spoiling myself and downloading the English rom. The intro is very good and it's a shame games don't try and be as genuine as LUCT. I haven't necessarily found a great tactics game in a while that isn't from Square. I will say that Level-5's Jeanne d'Arc came very close. I enjoyed that game and I couldn't put it down either. It's a shame that these types of games are gone and what we get are traditional artists pulling in new fans by bubblegum game play and cutesy aesthetics.
 
Should I play worried about incapacitations or deaths? Got some battles in then a few were knocked down (incapacitated). I know there is a title for having none, but it must be nearly impossible to play casually and not get some?
 
Really good game, but I can't put it over FFT. My main issue is that the combat feels bogged down in comparison due to the number of units. I'm sure that's a plus for a lot of people, but it just feels a step more convoluted to me. The combat itself doesn't really feel as good either, especially early on with clomping movement ranges and high defense units just being a hassle. There are other things that I'm not a huge fan of (leveling new classes, terrible crafting system, the ability system in general), but it's still the number 2 SRPG.

Apologies, I couldn't help but get in here and put myself on that FFT hill.

My man. The lack of modern Ogre Battle games is an unsealable hole in my heart :/

Yes, it's the most fantastic art style ever.
 
Really good game, but I can't put it over FFT. My main issue is that the combat feels bogged down in comparison due to the number of units. I'm sure that's a plus for a lot of people, but it just feels a step more convoluted to me.
One thing that helps, especially with less important battles, is turning on AI for certain units. I like to do this with healers because it helps reduce some of the tedium of using menus every round for MP boosting items and then targeting small heals. Maybe I'll use them for 2 rounds to use a MP boost and then cast some Quickness to do some start-of-battle buffing, but the AI in the game is rather useful for removing some of the tedium. I'll sometimes put a couple of my healers and maybe ranged on AI, and then mostly focus on my few best melee characters because they're more fun to manually control IMO.
 
Spent 1000 hours in the game and haven't done everything. Definitely the best SRPG I've ever played, FFT doesn't even come close.
 
Spent 1000 hours in the game and haven't done everything. Definitely the best SRPG I've ever played, FFT doesn't even come close.

One of my favorite games ever, top 3 probably. I put over a thousand hours and still haven't 100% it, all the weapons, etc.

1000 hours? Jesus. I need to head back. I thought a hundred was a lot. Though I probably put about 1k into Ogre Battle 64.
 
It's a great game, though the original SNES/PSX is still better in many respects when it comes to progression and the actual combat. I wish someone would make a fan mod to make the PSP version of the game less of a cakewalk and fix how horribly unbalanced it is. Not that the original game lacked balance issues, but this remake somehow made it even worse.

I'm curious, how much different is this version compared to the original?
 
I'm curious, how much different is this version compared to the original?

The remake introduced a lot of very significant differences.

The graphics were completely redone (the original used 2D backgrounds, the remake went with 3D backgrounds), the leveling system was redone (the original used character-based levels, this version uses class-based levels), the character artwork was redone by the original artist, the music was redone by the original composer, the game introduced a skill system that wasn't in the original, classes were rebalanced completely, the gender-based restrictions on classes were removed, the magic system was overhauled (there are significantly more spells in this version), several new characters were added to the game, a number of new story sequences were added, the crafting system was added to the game, the chariot system (which allows users to go back and redo moves) was added, the world system (which allows users to go back to different points in the story) was added, a huge amount of post-game content was added, several optional dungeons were added/expanded... that's off the top of my head. That's setting aside the basic UI and mechanic tweaks to make the game more user-friendly without diminishing its complexity.

It's quite comprehensive. The PSP version is really a complete overhaul -- a loving tribute that modernizes the game by the people who originally made it. I'd love to see a similar redo of Ogre Battle by them, but that's unlikely to happen. It's a miracle that this version of Tactics Ogre was created, which is why everyone should play it.
 
I suppose I should express my respect for Tactics Ogre's writing, music, and overall atmosphere. It's a remarkably nuanced affair, and with some of the scenes/battles having a powerful weight behind them. The weather adds a lot. And all those choices are a cherry on top.

Top notch stuff.
Should I play worried about incapacitations or deaths? Got some battles in then a few were knocked down (incapacitated). I know there is a title for having none, but it must be nearly impossible to play casually and not get some?

I don't think so, unless it's a story-related character. IIRC there's an item to transfer a dead unit's skills to a living unit, so you'll always be able to replace your regular units. Also, there are potions for reviving incapped or zombie units, which, while expensive, can be handy in a pinch. So almost everything is avoidable or replaceable, barring some card stats.

If you let them die haphazardly the only thing I foresee potentially being a problem is facing a difficult battle where you can't avoid losses. If a one heart story-related (but not required) unit dies it may be permanent... I've honestly never been brave enough to find out.
 
Incaps aren't too bad. Dead units... regular units can be scavenged or made into undead units later if you don't mind their corpses filling out your roster until then. For unique units you can always re-recruit them barring a few I think. They lose all skill progression and stat gains from leveling/tarot/food items though.

You can use an Elixir of Life to restore hearts but they aren't exactly easy to come nor available very early on. If you lose one heart I wouldn't worry about it. Losing two though I'd be more cautious if you value this unit.

Lobbers are handy for distant healing. They never really become useless in the game. Great equipment.

At 1 heart be careful. Sometimes you can end up with some shit deaths that skips incap turns entirely. This usually happens when a non-flying unit is knocked into a bottomless tile on the map. You will lose a heart from this so chariot it out if you can't take the loss.
 
Has anyone done a generic unit playthrough? With how strong uniques are in this game I can imagine it to be an interesting challenge.
 
Has anyone done a generic unit playthrough? With how strong uniques are in this game I can imagine it to be an interesting challenge.

It's still not a challenge. The game is horribly unbalanced even with just generics, especially with the game's braindead AI (actually worse than the SNES game there). Items alone break the game. You need a huge list of house rules to make this game difficult.
 
This game holds a very special place in my heart. The official TO:LuCT thread is the first thread I posted in as a member of GAF.

Just a true gem of a game in every way.
 
All the character designs are extremely gorgeous.

I wish the chibi models were translated better though.
 
Being as though FFT is a top 10 favorite game of mine I cannot BELIEVE I have never played this. Bought on SE sale...will play soon.
 
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