CNN poll : Donald Trump now competitive in general election

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Bam Bam Baklava said:
Well he's promising to get them all out. Not just ones that get caught. Which would be a tiny fraction of 11 million people I assume, that we know of.
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His recent policy release is more about staking a claim that he's going to be tough on immigration, so that anyone who follows him is a copy cat, and those who disagree look soft on immigration. It's a campaign move, and a pretty good one at that.
 
Ganzlinger said:
Well, in my country, Brazil, the "left" is going for the fourth consecutive run, by the end of the current run, it will be 16 years in power. No party achieved that before. But in each election they are losing votes, the last one it was technically a tie. So this current government is a disaster, economical crisis is hitting the country and things are becoming really tense as corruption scandals with the party leaders going to jail, manifestations around the country every month with millions of people, the president has only 7% of approval and she was a nobody, she was elected because she was the state secretary of the popular previous president. Millions are claiming for impeachment, and even for coup d'etat. This is terrible as the country will lack international credibility. The best outcome would be the victory of the oppositon in next election, that will likely happen, so things would calm down, because in curently situation half the country aren't accepting the current government. So, maybe, things would escalate quickly in America if a non good democrat leader is elected. The republicans will get more and more angry and may start similar manifestations. When a country is divided politically, if one sides keeps winning for a minor marging the losers aren't going to accept "democracy" forever. They will counter somehow, I believe.
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I respect that kind of approach for the specific situation in brazil. But this is not what is happening in the US. Obama is kicking ass and taking names. But he could not realize his full potential because of very annoying house of reps which was mostly made up of the opposition. If we elect the opposition as president, they will work to reverse everything obama started and continue to push policies that are completely incompatible with the current political climate.
 
Bam Bam Baklava said:
I don't get how they will deport the people here already. Will there be some kind of Gestapo group that patrols for mexican looking people and check their papers?
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Can I see somewhere where this is part of his plan? The "mandatory return of all criminal aliens" section clearly refers to those already incarcerated. I could see something like people getting stopped for minor traffic violations or altercations getting checked and discovered, but where is this proactive deportation coming from? An interview?
 
rob305 said:
Option A: You get arrested for committing a crime -> no papers -> deportation
Option B: You don't commit crimes -> no deporation
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Goes against his own words. That's not dealing with illegal immigration, that's dealing with illegal immigrants who happen to get caught for committing a crime. A small fraction I'm sure.

It's disingenuous.

Glass Joe said:
Can I see somewhere where this is part of his plan? The "mandatory return of all criminal aliens" section clearly refers to those already incarcerated. I could see something like people getting stopped for minor traffic violations or altercations getting checked and discovered, but where is this proactive deportation coming from? An interview?
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Every interview he says we have to get them ALL OUT. We have to get them out and on and on. Am I supposed to remember there's an asterisk involved? He even specifically mentions how the good ones will have a fast track back in. How the fuck am I more familiar with him than his own so called supporters?
 
Glass Joe said:
How does he say he's going to get them all out though?
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That's a good question.

Mass deportation: $141.3 billion

While it’s not explicitly outlined in Trump’s six-page immigration proposal, he has repeatedly pushed for deporting all 11 million immigrants here illegally — and then letting the “good ones” come back. (Trump’s plan does call for “mandatory return of all criminal aliens,” but that could mean both legal and illegal immigrants.)

In January 2011, Kumar Kibble — then the deputy director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement — told lawmakers that it costs about $12,500 to deport one immigrant from the United States. Multiply that by 11.3 million — the size of the undocumented population in 2014, according to the Pew Research Center — and you get $141.3 billion.
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http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/donald-trumps-immigration-tab-166-billion-121500.html
 
There's no way to get every illegal person out. The number is in 10s of millions. Like he said today, he'll just give the power down the ladder to local police chains and they'll do the work but it will be big over time effort.

As long as its balanced with an increased and quicker focus on legal immigration on the other side. Eitherways, I feel Trump is already dictating some future policy reforms of America a freakin' year away from elections and that is nothing to scoff at, despite his tainted ideals.
 
params7 said:
There's no way to get every illegal person out. The number is in 10s of millions. Like he said today, he'll just give the power down the ladder to local police chains and they'll do the work but it will be big over time effort.

As long as its balanced with an increased and quicker focus on legal immigration on the other side. Eitherways, I feel Trump is already dictating some future policy reforms of America a freakin' year away from elections and that is nothing to scoff at, despite his tainted ideals.
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But his policy proposal also calls for curbing legal immigration. Where will the balance come from? Another inconsistency in his "letting the good ones back in" statement.

Immigration moderation. Before any new green cards are issued to foreign workers abroad, there will be a pause where employers will have to hire from the domestic pool of unemployed immigrant and native workers. This will help reverse women's plummeting workplace participation rate, grow wages, and allow record immigration levels to subside to more moderate historical averages.
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I've said this earlier, but we definitely need to remember just how often races are close. Romney was close, apparently, but you wouldn't know that was ever the case if you just looked at how the vote ended up. By the sounds of it, Trump won't get the non-white vote, he isn't going to get support from LGBTQ people, the female vote is skewed in his favour, and I think Democrats who are further to the left are going to be just as devout to the Democratic nominee as much as the far-right voters are to Trump.

params7 said:
There's no way to get every illegal person out. The number is in 10s of millions. Like he said today, he'll just give the power down the ladder to local police chains and they'll do the work but it will be big over time effort.

As long as its balanced with an increased and quicker focus on legal immigration on the other side. Eitherways, I feel Trump is already dictating some future policy reforms of America a freakin' year away from elections and that is nothing to scoff at, despite his tainted ideals.
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A local police plan sounds to me like "random searches of brown people".
 
Bam Bam Baklava said:
His own words coming out of his own mouth in numerous interviews is not good enough I guess.
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"Mass deportation" are not words coming out of his own mouth though. Or if it is, I'd like to see the footage.

Hey, if that politico story you just linked was talking about policy that came from his own mouth, then boom, I fully agree with you. That's terrifying, impractical and cruel. But he didn't state any sort of plan for "mass deportation." If he did, someone please show me though.

And why wouldn't he have done so since his proposal is so detailed in every other aspect? "He said this but he means this" just doesn't work on me. At least not with Trump, since I've seen the lengths the press will go with him.

If he's saying in interviews "hey, we have to get them out" but he leaves it vague, IMO refer to what he's put on paper. I'm afraid to say I believe you're misinterpreting him.
 
Bam Bam Baklava said:
I'm sure the poster find some justification for that. I seriously doubt Trump would be leading an enlightened wave of science and reason. His entire platform is based around appealing to pure populism and science usually gets in the way of populism.
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Yeah, trump is only for science as long as it doesn't disagree with his quarterly results. Right wingers acting like he is somehow different from the corporatist core of the right wing because he doesn't kowtow to fox are delusional. Trump is EXACTLY what the far right and establishment right wanted, they just wanted him differently. I.e. : the establishment wants billionaires funding races, not running as candidates. Far right thinks anyone with money = a winner and as long as they're white and go to church they have the vote.
 
Machina said:
If Trump wins, seriously, we should throw out the entire electoral system and start again.
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We should throw it out regardless. For a country that touts itself as a democracy, (Even though some people already know that it very well isn't) having the majority of your people vote for one person as leader, and instead another person becomes leader, isn't a damn democracy.
 
Glass Joe said:
"Mass deportation" are not words coming out of his own mouth though. Or if it is, I'd like to see the footage.

Hey, if that politico story you just linked was talking about policy that came from his own mouth, then boom, I fully agree with you. That's terrifying, impractical and cruel. But he didn't state any sort of plan for "mass deportation." If he did, someone please show me though.

And why wouldn't he have done so since his proposal is so detailed in every other aspect? "He said this but he means this" just doesn't work on me. At least not with Trump, since I've seen the lengths the press will go with him.

If he's saying in interviews "hey, we have to get them out" but he leaves it vague, IMO refer to what he's put on paper. I'm afraid to say I believe you're misinterpreting him.
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I don't see how it could be any clearer. Why in god's name would he be talking about "letting the good ones back in" if he was speaking only of caught criminals? Are there good criminals?

Why would he be talking about families being sent back together. How many families are entirely made up of criminals? Why the hell would we be talking about birthright citizenship and anchor babies if this was just about criminals being sent back? Get real here bro, the only person who is misinterpreting anything is the person who doesn't seem to be following Trump's own words.

I suggest you actually listen to more of his interviews, because I certainly have.
 
Even the meagre passing thought of this terrifies me. I'd like to think it means nothing, but two terms of Bush make me think American's are capable of it...
 
Hydrus said:
I will be joining you guy's. Fuck it. We need somebody like Trump. I don't agree with some things he says, but stuff needs to get done in this country. If he sucks, then he will be gone in four years. And now I await for Liberal GAF to attack!! Go!Go!Go!!!!
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How is Trump the magic guy that will supposedly "get stuff done"?
 
Bam Bam Baklava said:
I don't see how it could be any clearer. Why in god's name would he be talking about "letting the good ones back in" if he was speaking only of caught criminals? Are there good criminals?

Why would he be talking about families being sent back together. Are there a lot of family crime units out there? Get real here bro, the only person who is misinterpreting anything is the person who doesn't seem to be following Trump's own words.
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He's going to make being an illegal immigrant here a shittier proposition than it already is. That may convince some to leave and try to come back legally. That family thing, didn't he say that in response to being asked if he's going to break families up? Sending someone's son back to Mexico (or wherever) after a crime is committed may make the family decide to go with him. But I don't know where this mass effort of knocking on random Latino people's doors to check paperwork is coming from. Unless you're fear mongering. Something as drastic as that would be in his proposal.

If I'm wrong & it's discovered that is his intention, I'll be the first to say "Fuck Trump." But I've seen press and gaffers grossly distort his intentions before and IMO it's happening now. Your politico link to prove it didn't convince me and your "his own mouth" argument didn't convince me either.

I guess we'll wait and see if I eat crow.

EDIT: Again, I'm not defending his immigration policy. Rather, my intent is trying to understand it, and question interpretations of it from others that don't gel with me.
 
The hyperbole over Trump is hilarious.

This "sky is falling" attitude is something I hear every election. Looks like the world survived a Republican congress and Obama didn't become the dictator right-wingers were predicting.

There are legit leaders I'd be concerned about, like North Korea's leader and the Iranian clerics. But even in those two cases it is hard to say how serious the threats are and how much is just showboating.

Trump wouldn't destroy this country anymore than George Bush or Barack Obama did. Trump is arrogant, a bully, and IMO wrong on the immigration solutions and social issues. He also knows how to play his audience and has a history of very liberal positions meant to solve America's problems.

Hardly warrants all the doomsday forecasting.
 
Glass Joe said:
He's going to make being an illegal immigrant here a shittier proposition than it already is. That may convince some to leave and try to come back legally. That family thing, didn't he say that in response to being asked if he's going to break families up? Sending someone's son back to Mexico may make the family decide to go with him. But I don't know where this mass effort of knocking on random Latino people's doors to check paperwork is coming from. Unless you're fear mongering. Something as drastic as that would be in his proposal.

If I'm wrong & it's discovered that is his intention, I'll be the first to say "Fuck Trump." But I've seen press and gaffers grossly distort his intentions before and IMO it's happening now. Your politico link to prove it didn't convince me and your "his own mouth" argument didn't convince me either.

I guess we'll wait and see if I eat crow.
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Look man, it's what he's saying. I'm just wondering how he plans to do it, as are plenty of other people.

He said the U.S. government would work to find ways to avoid splitting apart families and that some should be allowed to eventually return. He didn’t offer specifics or a cost figure for how the mass deportation would work, nor the process of allowing some immigrants to return.

“We’re going to keep the families together,” Mr. Trump said in an interview broadcast Sunday on NBC. “But they have to go.”
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We're going to keep the families together but they have to go. What more could that possibly mean? I'm sorry that the big evil media is turning your deity's words around all the time but in this case it's pretty much crystal clear.
 
Mifune said:
No. but wanting to elect Trump or Romney or whoever else the GOP decides to nominate just to "see GAF melt down" is a pretty common refrain in these parts, and is Idiocracy-levels of stupid.
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I believe a Romney presidency with a democratic Congress would have been mostly fine. Not as much progress as Obama, mind you, but not Bush-level bad. His governorship in Mass seemed level-headed (gay marriage, raised taxes, health care mandate, etc) and I think a lot of what he said was to appease an insane Republican electorate. I didn't like the guy nor vote for him, though.
 
Bam Bam Baklava said:
We're going to keep the families together but they have to go. What more could that possibly mean? I'm sorry that the big evil media is turning your deity's words around all the time but in this case it's pretty much crystal clear.
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Read my edit above please, as I probably included it as you were typing. I included it as I realized that in trying to understand the man's intentions, I'm probably coming off as "defending" his ideas.

As for this:

He said the U.S. government would work to find ways to avoid splitting apart families and that some should be allowed to eventually return. He didn’t offer specifics or a cost figure for how the mass deportation would work, nor the process of allowing some immigrants to return.
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Where is the footage of this conversation with him regarding "mass deportation?" Or is it a voice-over narrative implying his intentions? Maybe he didn't offer specifics because he didn't talk about doing so whatsoever? *Shrugs* I think I'll track it down and watch it closer. Meet The Press with Chuck Todd, right?
 
He's a buffoon, but he's still the least terrifying Republican candidate aside from Kasich. Ted Cruz is orders of magnitude more scary than Trump.
 
newjeruse said:
He's a buffoon, but he's still the least terrifying Republican candidate aside from Kasich. Ted Cruz is orders of magnitude more scary than Trump.
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I think he probably is the least scary but:
-pretty racist
-thinks climate change is a hoax
-Doesn't seem to understand the difference between Sunni and shiite
-Thinks stealing oil is acceptable policy
-doesn't seem to understand some basic civics (amendments, supreme court, due process, etc.)
 
speculawyer said:
I think he probably is the least scary but:
-pretty racist
-thinks climate change is a hoax
-Doesn't seem to understand the difference between Sunni and shiite
-Thinks stealing oil is acceptable policy
-doesn't seem to understand some basic civics (amendments, supreme court, due process, etc.)
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In the same way that Obama wasn't able to implement his more sweeping "hope and change" platform promises, Trump won't be able to do much related to all those mind-shreddingly stupid things, either. The system is the system, regardless of who's president.

That said, the people in this thread claiming they'll be voting for the racist misogynist idiot may want to rethink their decision to publicly declare their secret ballot.
 
I still have faith that we won't see Trump in the general. He's entertaining and he knows how to pander. But eventually the establishment will wrest control back and they'll kick him to the curb.
 
Awwwww yeaaaaah! All hail the Trumpmeister. America's about to play its Trump card. Can't trump the Trump.

original-17148-1392348771-16.jpg
 
Bam Bam Baklava said:
We're going to keep the families together but they have to go. What more could that possibly mean? I'm sorry that the big evil media is turning your deity's words around all the time but in this case it's pretty much crystal clear.
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In the interest in finding proper information, here's an interview that supports you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=265&v=80cY76l-pMQ

Bill O'Reilly grills Trump about this mass deportation stuff and Trump comes off very poorly. He's confronted directly with the issues you raise -- very specifically too -- but instead of addressing them or clarifying confusion, all Trump does is continually move the topic to the 14th Amendment.

In reading his immigration policy, I took "criminal aliens" as a different concept than "illegal aliens" and felt that people must be confusing the two with this "mass deportation" stuff. But should that be the case, Trump did absolutely nothing to dispel that confusion so yeah, I have to say I gave the man too much credit and that you appear to be correct here.
 
MattKeil said:
In the same way that Obama wasn't able to implement his more sweeping "hope and change" platform promises
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Well I mean I seem to recall at least one big one that happened

If Trump won a Republican House would be an almost certainty and a Republican Senate would have a strong possibility of being.
 
there's a real long time to go between now and when the primaries even get into full swing. have there been state polls to give a better look at how trump is doing against other republicans and even democrats?
 
VultureDude said:
Seems to me that this is the first step to American having President "Beef Supreme" in the near future!

(anyone catch that reference?)
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Beef Supreme was the "corrections personnel" from Monday Night Rehabilitation. The President's name was Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho.
 
Glass Joe said:
In the interest in finding proper information, here's an interview that supports you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=265&v=80cY76l-pMQ

Bill O'Reilly grills Trump about this mass deportation stuff and Trump comes off very poorly. He's confronted directly with the issues you raise -- very specifically too -- but instead of addressing them or clarifying confusion, all Trump does is continually move the topic to the 14th Amendment.

In reading his immigration policy, I took "criminal aliens" as a different concept than "illegal aliens" and felt that people must be confusing the two with this "mass deportation" stuff. But should that be the case, Trump did absolutely nothing to dispel that confusion so yeah, I have to say I gave the man too much credit and that you appear to be correct here.
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Some one brought this up earlier. I cant wait to see how trump deals with "mass deportation".
 
sangreal said:
I can't imagine him sharing the spotlight with a running mate. Trump/Trump 2016
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If anything will come of his presidency, he will help develop human cloning. Either that or cut off his dick and prop it up Vice Prez Little Donald. 😁
 
TheLaughingStock said:
The most powerful person in the world is a central banker.
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That's patently false. President Obama can sack Janet Yellen for absolutely any reason, and the authority of the Federal Reserve is nowhere near that of the president. Can the Federal Reserve board declare war?
 
Damerman said:
Tell that to the millions upon millions of americans who now have a legit marriage across all 50 states and all the day-to-day implications that might mean.

Tell that to the millions of sub-30 years of age now-americans who were allowed citizenship through executive order.

A president has immediate impact on peoples' lives.
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I said there were exceptions - laws that target specific people are obviously going to affect them. If you're in the military and your government goes to war, that's going to affect you. But for your average Joe, going to work every day, raising their kids, going on the odd holiday etc, the degree to white their life changes with the government isn't proportional to the degree of vitriol and effort expended around elections, IMO. The country doesn't change that much.
 
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