CNN poll : Donald Trump now competitive in general election
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He needs to keep pushing that type of thinking...Most def will continue to increase his appeal. While many still knock Trump, if you look at what he says and how he says it, on certain topics, he clearly is going to push a more left agenda once in office. I'm pretty sure this is why he avoids details and plans. Sure some of his views and policy dont favor everyone but on the whole I think he really does want the best for every American citizen and believes he know the best route to bring us closer.
His agenda is more congruent through and through. Even when he double talks or makes an error it comes off more as a genuine mistake then intentional deceit (or Trump just being "Trump"..aligns with his character/persona). Whereas with Hillary, it all is to fucking calculated, truth or lies (this aligns with the persona and perception of politicians)...As for her agenda I think her becoming president is the greater motivation, having precedence over helping the American people.
[Trump or Bernie for POTUS!]
So what you are saying is Trump is purposefully hiding his policy or agenda to trick GOP voters into voting for him. And Hilary is the calculating politician?
metalslimer
Member
Seriously it seems like every non crazy trump supporter has this strange level of cognitive dissonance going on where they are voting him because he is so real and yet defend him by saying he's hiding his real positions
TheLaughingStock
Member
So, you like Trump because sure some of his policies suck, but his heart is in the right place? (I assume we're talking about his bigoted views)
Calculating successful businessman is more like it. Which I would take over a calculating politician...
In regards to Trump and voters (GOP and otherwise), hes trying to keep their attention on him as a person and the results hes going to work toward. My guess is he'll share just enough details when necessary, but by then his hope will be people have bought in to him as a person and not stress the details as much. It's been working to a degree thus far...(all the past statements that should have damned him, etc...)
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
It's like the fun of a mystery box with real world ramifications! You don't know what you're gonna get but at least you get the thrill of not knowing.
The real hilarity of that interview is he's basically flip flopping on that whole "I'm not taking anyone's money" stance to taking money but with no strings attached. Sounds like a total sham.
I do think on the whole his heart is in the right place which is why people are believing &resonating with his so called straight talk...Its very hard to fake that kind of congruence. Are all his personal views and values perfectly aligned with my own? No. But more so than the other candidates (Minus Bernie)
As for bigoted views, care to be specific? If its Integration related I dont see them as bigoted ( i do see how one could see it that way and respect that option). I see them as more pro American, including all Americans of all races, creed, ethnicity, etc.
He's not a successful businessman though. He's a trust fund baby who underperformed the New York real estate market by supernatural amounts, went bankrupt five times, failed to make money on CASINOS, alienated the entire country of Scotland, lies frequently about his net worth and his only regular success is literally based on entertainment derived from what an obnoxious blowhard he is.
He has no notable business acumen compared with his peers, and practically any gafer who inherited that much money and started investing in real estate when he did, would be better off than him even if they'd made conservative investments.
You literally admire his own warped self definition. Oh and he's a huge racist who frequently talks about how sexy his daughter is.
That's who you admire.
gutter_trash
Banned
With all the money Trump has, he could buy himself a better looking capThis thread needs this picture:
HylianTom found it.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Well his message seems to be resonating with a certain type of person. I don't think it's just some lucky coincidence.
http://www.refinery29.com/2015/08/92787/white-power-chant-donald-trump-rally
http://gawker.com/donald-trump-boston-bros-who-beat-up-a-homeless-man-j-1725421522
Also regarding Trump "hiding" his positions, etc. It's more like..."everything is negotiable" based on the situation at the present time as long as it's aligned with his vision and values. If your in business, a startup or study business you might recognize that line of thinking and the "real world" value it brings. It's called being flexible, something Trump has reiterated about his views and positions more then once.
I see "flip flopping" as something a bit different. Most political flip floppers, flip externally but are not truly aligned with the change in position they are taking.
Trump is more aligned with being a businessman getting new data or KPI's who will alter course as needed. Though he doesnt come off as someone to easily shift gears as it relates to his values, but will shift gears when it comes to bringing them to fruition.
I see "flip flopping" as something a bit different. Most political flip floppers, flip externally but are not truly aligned with the change in position they are taking.
Trump is more aligned with being a businessman getting new data or KPI's who will alter course as needed. Though he doesnt come off as someone to easily shift gears as it relates to his values, but will shift gears when it comes to bringing them to fruition.
If your going to post sources at least post quotes of what Trump actually said. Also I went over this in another thread...repost of what I wrote there...
Maninthemirror
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@JoeNBC: Reuters/Ipsos poll:
Trump- 32%
Bush- 16%
Carson- 8%
Huckabee- 7%
Walker- 5%
Rubio- 4%
Cruz- 4%
Fiorina- 3%
Christie- 3%
Perry- 2%
Kasich-2%
If you combined the crazy with less crazy
Trump 56
Bush 30
@JoeNBC: Reuters/Ipsos poll:
Trump- 32%
Bush- 16%
Carson- 8%
Huckabee- 7%
Walker- 5%
Rubio- 4%
Cruz- 4%
Fiorina- 3%
Christie- 3%
Perry- 2%
Kasich-2%
If you combined the crazy with less crazy
Trump 56
Bush 30
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Spock going to that ultra tier mental gymnastics right now. Notice how he completely ignored my post.
ErasureAcer
Banned
Fiorina and Kasich sure fell back to earth pretty quick. Once the media stopped talking about them...they dropped like Rand Paul(1% for Rand?)
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Fox was trying to push Fiorina so hard. Looks like it failed miserably.
Hexa
Member
Booyah! Trump domination continuation.
Surprised Carson is still so high though and Rubio fell so much. And where the hell did Huckabee come from. lol
hydragonwarrior
Member
Ugh then this double siding will fuck him up during the GE. What's he going to do - walk back on all of his anti-climate change rhetoric to appease the democrats? Then he'll lose his crazy vote. The crazy will immediately turn on him if he flinches towards being more moderate. Or more so, going back on his word.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
After the nomination "Just kidding guys amnesty for everybody."
Poker Face
Member
amazing.
TheLaughingStock
Member
He says in the direct quote that most of them are criminals which is false.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...p-mexican-government-they-send-bad-ones-over/
http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trumps-epic-statement-on-mexico-2015-7
RetrospectiveLamb
Member
Trump has some good ideas, but I have little to no confidence he can implement anything he claims. When you're a CEO billionaire and someone disagrees with you, you fire them. Can't really do that as president.
I'm more surprised how Clinton's campaign has been terrible, like she does not share the same enthusiasm and charm her husband had
I'm more surprised how Clinton's campaign has been terrible, like she does not share the same enthusiasm and charm her husband had
Actually I didnt ignore your post, just didnt get around to it. Is Trump going to draw people who are pro white?
Yup...
Is his agenda pro white or pro American ? I believe it's pro American, some might choose to interpret that as pro white but I dont think thats Trumps intent. People of all types of bias are going to vote, it is what it is...
During Obama's election (voted for him twice my self) I read and seen video (check youtube) of people voting for him just because hes black. Some folks even looked at it as a way to stick it to the white man...I personally dont give a fuck. I'm not white, nor do I give a shit if thats your reason for voting. Its your choice and right. If people vote for Hillary and say "Girl power" just because shes a women, should that matter? Obviously the intent behind girl power is not the same. Point being, bias exits. The degrees and motivation behind thoses biases vary.
I'm only concerned with the candidates motivations and intent, etc. I you can find racist people within every candidates voting groups/demographics if you lock enough...
Mexican government sending rapists to the US is still an extremely dumb statement, though.
I think you need to re-read the actual quotes you just posted... He clearly is talking about a segment of immigrants that are criminals which he believes are being ignored or helped across the border...
If you really want I can post his actual quotes a break it down line by line.
You only fire a subordinate and with good reason. Otherwise...you negotiate.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Inflammatory rhetoric matters. A President chooses their words carefully because they know it has real consequences. His rhetoric is bordering on dangerous if it hasn't already crossed it.
DragonSworne
Banned
Interesting. Trump seems to be the most middle class friendly candidate in the Republican party. Also more middle class friendly than Hillary.
Unless they're colored.
hydragonwarrior
Member
For anyone seriously considering Trump, here is what he will bring to the office (so far). These are also things he will not walk back on:
Pros:
- might want Single Payer
- does think the rich should get taxed more than middle class
- self funded so potentially no influence
Cons:
- Reduced EPA (environmental protection agency) standards against polluting businesses
- Likely a radical re-thinking of climate change - complete denial of it's existence
- Some fucking wall inbetween Mexico and the States
- Complete walk back on negotiations between Iran and the states
- Going all hardline on any other country that does not agree with the US's plans (with us or against us)
- Walk back on any type of progressive accomplishment that's occurred in the past 8 years (he has the congress and senate on his side)
- Will treat the government like a business, and more than likely bring with him his ideas of risk and bankruptcy
His first positive point will only happen if he actually presents it as an idea. As of such, his only goal is walking back ACA, which has infrastructure towards Single Payer. If he's to tear ALL of that down, him implementing Single Payer would be a monetary nightmare for the US.
He may get something from his second point. More than likely he'll defund everything else to do so.
His third point is negated completely by his stances on the environment and that he's more than likely friendly with several corporations of interest. For example, http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...eizing-middle-eastern-oil-fields-jim-geraghty
Pros:
- might want Single Payer
- does think the rich should get taxed more than middle class
- self funded so potentially no influence
Cons:
- Reduced EPA (environmental protection agency) standards against polluting businesses
- Likely a radical re-thinking of climate change - complete denial of it's existence
- Some fucking wall inbetween Mexico and the States
- Complete walk back on negotiations between Iran and the states
- Going all hardline on any other country that does not agree with the US's plans (with us or against us)
- Walk back on any type of progressive accomplishment that's occurred in the past 8 years (he has the congress and senate on his side)
- Will treat the government like a business, and more than likely bring with him his ideas of risk and bankruptcy
His first positive point will only happen if he actually presents it as an idea. As of such, his only goal is walking back ACA, which has infrastructure towards Single Payer. If he's to tear ALL of that down, him implementing Single Payer would be a monetary nightmare for the US.
He may get something from his second point. More than likely he'll defund everything else to do so.
His third point is negated completely by his stances on the environment and that he's more than likely friendly with several corporations of interest. For example, http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...eizing-middle-eastern-oil-fields-jim-geraghty
Do you mean illegal?
No my implication was that Trump is a bigot no matter the legal status, he is a birther after all.
Alcibiades
Member
It's a dumb statement to phrase it that way, but unfortunately due to both incompetency and corruption, the Mexican government lets criminals reign free, escape from prisons (some near the U. S. border), and have shown little interest in stopping those that do come over.
It is something that if the U. S. were to do to Canada, there would be outrage over.
The short-term solution to stop the bleeding (but ultimately ineffective) would be a border wall. The only long-term solution is drug legalization (not decrim).
That's the ONLY solution. It is the only means by which billions of dollars that U. S. citizens send to the cartels can be stopped.
Of course, Obama, Clinton, Bush, Walker, etc... - none of them really care or give a sh*t. I give credit to Ttump for actually bringing it up despite the xenophobic element in his talk. Even more offensive than anything he has said is that our President, our Congress, and all of the candidates are willing to see suffering and bloodshed right south of the border but due to special interests that profit from the drug war are unwilling to proposal real solutions.
The sad thing is if the U. S. tried to help Mexico stabilize, the need for people to escape here for safety and jobs would be greatly lessened. You solve two birds with one stone if not for our politicians being yes-men for the prison, pharmaceutical, and insurance industries.
I don't get the whole "Trump or Bernie" thing. We're not just picking the leader of the executive branch; control of the judiciary for a few decades is probably at stake.
How is it logically consistent to think, "Hmm.. if I can't have the guy who wants to go in this direction, I'll go with the guy who has pledged to go in the other direction? And long after this polar opposite guy is gone, his judges will stick around for a few decades, knocking-down everything I claim to stand for."
Is it some sort of "he talk pretty!" thing that's scrambling folks' philosophical consistency circuits? I really am incredulous at this pattern.
How is it logically consistent to think, "Hmm.. if I can't have the guy who wants to go in this direction, I'll go with the guy who has pledged to go in the other direction? And long after this polar opposite guy is gone, his judges will stick around for a few decades, knocking-down everything I claim to stand for."
Is it some sort of "he talk pretty!" thing that's scrambling folks' philosophical consistency circuits? I really am incredulous at this pattern.
Nah. It's worked. She's improved a bunch in polls despite being in the minors leagues and not getting that massive exposure in the last debate. She should be in the majors for the next debate, and that'll be the real test.
We live in a universe where people could consider a Bush to be "less crazy"? Gadzooks.
Third Strike
Member
What's up with Walker? I thought he was the GOP's golden boy. Did people finally wake up that this guy is un-electable in the general election?
First, with all your pros and cons you say these are things he wont go back on, however one of the things he demonstrates and has said is that everything is negotiable (outside core values, principles, etc.). What he wont back down on is the driving force and core values/ideas backing those negotiations. It's a very important difference.
Second, most of what you posted are pure assumptions and imagination built on a foundation of bias. There are elements of possibility but nothing has been laid out in regards to details and specifics, which again is intentional. Especially in the context of negotiation and flexibility. You may want the opposition to have an impression to give you some mental leverage before the game, but you keep them cards close and play them as needed at game time.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Don't be so sure.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/what-carly-fiorina-needs-to-make-cnns-main-stage-debate/
You wanna talk about pure assumptions and imagination built on a foundation of bias? Holy shit. Every thing he has ever said or done you immediately spin the positive side of.
Ganzlinger
Member
Is that possible in the USA? I mean, in my country, once things are voted and approved or the Supreme Justice court decides about something, the president can't do shit.
Pizza Booty
Banned
wasn't walker their insurance policy? only 5% ?
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
At least Clinton put out a detailed plan.
Another big issue I have with putting Trump there, and why I have to question the "logic" of supposed progressives who are willing to give him a shot if they don't get their nominee of choice:
there's a daaaaamn good chance that the GOP will end-up controlling both the House and the Senate at some point during his first term. 2016 looks good for the Democrats to recapture it, so they'd have some limiting effect on what could be done legislatively, but 2018's map looks very favorable for the Senate to flip right back into GOP hands.
If the GOP Congress starts passing its usual shit between 2019 and 2021, I don't see Trump being a very big obstacle to his own party. There's a saying that Presidents usually tell their own people: "I agree with you, I want to do it.. now MAKE me do it." If Congress puts legislation on Trump's desk, I could see him going along with a lot of it.
How does a supposed progressive look at himself/herself in the mirror and say, "Hmm.. Going against what I say I stand for. I'd vote for that. This is logical." ??
Yep. Let's put a President in place who would be waaaay friendlier to this guy's policy preferences.
there's a daaaaamn good chance that the GOP will end-up controlling both the House and the Senate at some point during his first term. 2016 looks good for the Democrats to recapture it, so they'd have some limiting effect on what could be done legislatively, but 2018's map looks very favorable for the Senate to flip right back into GOP hands.
If the GOP Congress starts passing its usual shit between 2019 and 2021, I don't see Trump being a very big obstacle to his own party. There's a saying that Presidents usually tell their own people: "I agree with you, I want to do it.. now MAKE me do it." If Congress puts legislation on Trump's desk, I could see him going along with a lot of it.
How does a supposed progressive look at himself/herself in the mirror and say, "Hmm.. Going against what I say I stand for. I'd vote for that. This is logical." ??
Yep. Let's put a President in place who would be waaaay friendlier to this guy's policy preferences.
Trump's religiosity seems like such a shallow ruse.
I really wouldn't take the Chinese twitter statement seriously. Trump has hinted at letting the Iran deal stay after making some changes to it. As for treating government like a business, it could either be really good or bad, we don't know how it would turn out under Trump.
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