Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain | Review Thread | Words That Kill
- Thread starter ezekial45
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Yep. Huge relief.
Exactly how I feel.
The game keeps getting 10/10 but upon reading all the reviews, all I am getting are vibes of Peace Walker and Portable Ops which were games I never even finished. Didn't like all that Fulton and Mother Base bullshit. Hated the lack of the grandiose cutscenes of the numbered MGS games (I can still re-play all the previous games and have tons of fun) and everyone points out how EVERYTHING i loved about the series is gone: its a weak story now, with no codec, no grandiose cutscenes, no David Hayter, silent snake, almost no boss fights and a shitload of open-world infiltration and customization that I honestly don't care about - that's NOT what a series represented for me since the masterpiece of the first game.
I just wanted MGS5 with the same type of gameplay and everything else from the previous game, same linearity, same amazing boss fights and cutscenes, same intriguing codec conversations and now its all gone.
FUCK this
Kinda getting these vibes too, but I'm super excited nonetheless. If nothing else, the gameplay is going to be fantastic - I never really cared for MGS1-4's gameplay that much, I always played (and loved) the games for their stories and cut scenes.
I'm still hoping for a craaaazy story, but right now I'm just prepared for it to be an enjoyable open-world stealth experience, nothing more, nothing less.
Then I'll replay MGS1, 2 and 4 and remember again why I love those games.
Which are the best spoiler free video-reviews to watch?
Also, i'm worried too about pacing and how the story adapts to the open-world format, but i have a pretty open-mind so i'm sure i'll still enjoy it.
It's a real shame they didn't go with Shinkawa cover art for their final MGS
Also, i'm worried too about pacing and how the story adapts to the open-world format, but i have a pretty open-mind so i'm sure i'll still enjoy it.
It's a real shame they didn't go with Shinkawa cover art for their final MGS
Green Yoshi
Member
Any last gen impressions? Could be my last 360 game.
Review copies are mostly if not all on ps4.
Berserker976
Member
You're not alone, man. :/
This is exactly the vibe I've been getting from these reviews and it just sucks.
MiguelItUp
Member
From what I've read it sounds like Phantom Pain will definitely live up to my expectations, if not exceed them. As excited as I am about everything, it still feels so incredibly bitter sweet knowing this is Kojima's final hurrah for MGS. I feel like knowing that alone will increase the amount of emotion in the game. I really cannot wait for 9/1, I've been waiting for this for a long time. We all have.
It seems like the MGS game that MGS has always strived to be, gameplay-wise.
As Kojima has said, MGS was always about infiltration.
I loved the MGS games that I have played (MGS1, 4, PeaceWalker), but in terms of level design they were structured in very specific ways and I felt that the maps did not have a very realistic, natural flow to them. I guess it is still very true with MGSV, but I feel like the biggest stride they made with this game is basically taking the idea of infiltration and tackling it the way that it should have always been. Multiple entry points, a lot of verticality, mobility, options on how to tackle moment-to-moment objectives as you see fit, etc.
What I played of past MGS games, there is always an obstacle before progression. This seems to be laying the puzzles out there and you deciding how to solve it a la Hitman. That is why I am very much looking forward to this game.
I can live without the overly-long cutscenes. There were times in Peacewalker when I just wanted to advance and not really listen to the story. The stories have always been interesting to me, but I think they can do better with the storytelling side of it. When I say I found the stories interesting, I really mean I liked it way better than, say, Skyrim or other overly-long, text-heavy, audio-heavy stories.
gamerMan
Member
From the reviews I have read this doesn't seem to be like Metal Gear 1 - 3. I am surprised that a lot of things that made Metal Gear a Metal Gear game have been omitted here. I can't believe the story element has been toned down. I think Metal Gear Solid was the most entertaining game I have ever played.
Still, I like the fact that the Kojima and team has done something completely new here. In an age where sequels are just more of the same formula with better graphics, Kojima has challenged the notion of a Metal Gear game. Sure there is going to be some disappointment and not everyone is going to like it. I think because of the move to open world design, how much you get out it really will be how much you play around with the mechanics. Being dropped into an area, I like the idea of creating my own script. Although I am disappointed that many of the elements that I loved have been removed, I honestly can't wait to try something new.
Still, I like the fact that the Kojima and team has done something completely new here. In an age where sequels are just more of the same formula with better graphics, Kojima has challenged the notion of a Metal Gear game. Sure there is going to be some disappointment and not everyone is going to like it. I think because of the move to open world design, how much you get out it really will be how much you play around with the mechanics. Being dropped into an area, I like the idea of creating my own script. Although I am disappointed that many of the elements that I loved have been removed, I honestly can't wait to try something new.
MR BLACKMAGIK
Member
Yeah I know. I'm hoping the Xbox One version is fine as that's what I'll be playing it on. Seems a little weird to only give out review copies for one platform. What if the Xbox One version is a piece of shit?
halopower67
Member
I believe i heard that GT is one of the more spoilery reviews so i'd stay away from that.
Edit: Welp, people here are saying otherwise so I'd defer to them since I haven't seen the GT review.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
I understand, I even said earlier in the thread that it feels like the most non-Metal Gear game in the series.
Honestly I think the big grandiose cutscenes were detriment to MGS4 and this is coming from someone who holds MGS4 up almost on level pegging with MGS1 as my most favorite MGS game.
You can't honestly say that codec cutscenes interrupting you everytime you moved two feet in the previous games were a good thing. I am not reading any reviews so I'm not sure how it goes but I think it is better to have the codecs told over the gameplay, not having the game brought to a halt in the middle of a dangerous area with enemies all around waiting for you to kneel down and listen to some inane prattle.
The thing that excites me most are the new gameplay mechanics/controls. Going back to the older games is a chore as you are literally fighting with the controls which detracts from the experience.
I hope that you get some enjoyment out of the game though. I would feel bad that a game that seemingly feels like it was made for me, puts off a load of fellow MGS fans.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
While this is obviously an evolution of fundamentals established in Peace Walker, what makes me excited for this over the latter (a game that could be my least favourite in the entire series) is that this clearly provides a more expansive and complex playground to use those fundamentals. Regardless of how people feel about Peace Walker, as a "Metal Gear" game, or even just a stealth game, it was indisputably held back by the extremely dated hardware it was built for. Yes, it's stealth, and yes you have all the mother base development, soldier recruiting stuff. But the actual level zones were so fucking small and under populated, and the complexity of your controls and interaction (or I guess I should say "game feel") so weak that, at least for me, the game never felt like it came to life. The ball and chain of shit hardware was ever present, so here you are with the game basically going "DEVELOP AND TRY ALL THESE COOL TOYS!" but completely failing to provide satisfying missions and levels to showcase said tools. This goes doubly for the boss fights which were Monster Hunter inspired arena grind endurance bullshit.
On the other hand it's clear as day, from previews, reviews, and more importantly footage that the playspace in The Phantom Pain is the biggest the series has ever seen. Watching mission walkthroughs and the diversity of strategies that can be applied, this seems more gameplay first than any Metal Gear to date. And while the series is maybe best known for its narrative, it's really underselling what the games accomplish in play define them by only the narrative. Ignoring the narratives, MGS2 felt like a huge leap in play and control and how you can sneak past and fuck with the AI over MGS. And MGS3 introduced a whole bunch of interesting, rather novel ideas (like camo) again. Yet, at least for me, each of these games, as much as I love them, always felt a little undercooked in utilising those new gameplay systems comprehensively. Like they're most valuable early on, then the narrative takes whole and directs you through stricter mission structures that kinda forgo a lot of the nuanced game design.
The Phantom Pain looks like the total opposite, where it's this sandbox of interesting, stealth heavy gameplay mechanisms and tools, and most missions are built in environments and design to give you true freedom in how you implement said mechanisms and tools. Which in turn should, in theory, put greater value and incentive to work on Mother Base related stuff too, as it no longer feels like fluff for a game that cant support the ideas it presents.
I don't like Peace Walker very much at all, but The Phantom Pain to me seems like Peace Walker done right. Like a game that is comprehensively Metal Gear in play and game design, while implementing the cool ideas Peace Walker presented in an environment that can better support them. Maybe the narrative suffers a bit as a result, but eh, fuck that. It's obviously still going to be a Kojima story, and it's obviously still going to be loaded with cutscenes. It's not black and white; they'll be there. But for the first time in far too long this looks like a Metal Gear game that isn't overly eager to put the play on the backburner in favour of some dumb cinema sequence, but instead relish both.
MGS3 is loaded with cutscenes, and I love it. But I'm not going to pretend a lot of my fond memories of MGS3, and the rest of the series, come from the act of play too. MGS4 and PW disappointed me in both these areas alongside narrative. To see that they seemingly finally got at least one part, the game design, right for the fifth entry excites me immensely. Bring it on.
EDIT: I watched the Game Trailers review, it is not spoilery in my opinion. All the footage is stock footage from trailers, and they specify the less said about the story the better. They just articulate that it has some big twists, at least one big twist that they felt a bit off on at first but later grew to like the more they thought about it, and that narratively it's still loaded with Kojima/Metal Gear moments.
On the other hand it's clear as day, from previews, reviews, and more importantly footage that the playspace in The Phantom Pain is the biggest the series has ever seen. Watching mission walkthroughs and the diversity of strategies that can be applied, this seems more gameplay first than any Metal Gear to date. And while the series is maybe best known for its narrative, it's really underselling what the games accomplish in play define them by only the narrative. Ignoring the narratives, MGS2 felt like a huge leap in play and control and how you can sneak past and fuck with the AI over MGS. And MGS3 introduced a whole bunch of interesting, rather novel ideas (like camo) again. Yet, at least for me, each of these games, as much as I love them, always felt a little undercooked in utilising those new gameplay systems comprehensively. Like they're most valuable early on, then the narrative takes whole and directs you through stricter mission structures that kinda forgo a lot of the nuanced game design.
The Phantom Pain looks like the total opposite, where it's this sandbox of interesting, stealth heavy gameplay mechanisms and tools, and most missions are built in environments and design to give you true freedom in how you implement said mechanisms and tools. Which in turn should, in theory, put greater value and incentive to work on Mother Base related stuff too, as it no longer feels like fluff for a game that cant support the ideas it presents.
I don't like Peace Walker very much at all, but The Phantom Pain to me seems like Peace Walker done right. Like a game that is comprehensively Metal Gear in play and game design, while implementing the cool ideas Peace Walker presented in an environment that can better support them. Maybe the narrative suffers a bit as a result, but eh, fuck that. It's obviously still going to be a Kojima story, and it's obviously still going to be loaded with cutscenes. It's not black and white; they'll be there. But for the first time in far too long this looks like a Metal Gear game that isn't overly eager to put the play on the backburner in favour of some dumb cinema sequence, but instead relish both.
MGS3 is loaded with cutscenes, and I love it. But I'm not going to pretend a lot of my fond memories of MGS3, and the rest of the series, come from the act of play too. MGS4 and PW disappointed me in both these areas alongside narrative. To see that they seemingly finally got at least one part, the game design, right for the fifth entry excites me immensely. Bring it on.
EDIT: I watched the Game Trailers review, it is not spoilery in my opinion. All the footage is stock footage from trailers, and they specify the less said about the story the better. They just articulate that it has some big twists, at least one big twist that they felt a bit off on at first but later grew to like the more they thought about it, and that narratively it's still loaded with Kojima/Metal Gear moments.
Alright thanks.
Beautiful GT voice will have to wait until I've played the game then.
I watched it earlier, didn't spot a single spoiler
It was before my first coffee this morning though lol, might have missed something
halopower67
Member
I'm sure it'll be fine. But the PS4 is the lead platform most of the time this generation as far as game reviews go. I wouldn't worry so much.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
Sorry for late response, but Nvidia codes do not contain a copy of Ground Zeroes. I was happy with paying $35 since I bought GZ for full price when it launched on PC
Ahh fuck. The reviews confirm my greatest fears for the game. I was always having the feeling that the story elements had been cut down drastically just watching official videos. Some people said to wait for the game to come out but I just knew and now I wish I was wrong. This is devastatingly disappointing to hear. The gameplay looks kickass but somehow my hype has been deflated almost completely. Already made the deal to buy from a friend who got it with a graphics card so I'll be playing it but goddammit. Will be interesting to see if I change my mind after completing the game but my kneejerk reaction is that the open world aspect of the game isn't worth losing the other stuff for me.
tryagainlater
Member
Has any reviewer mentioned regretting their words and deeds?
Lord_Santa
Neo Member
I find it rather curious that people who haven't experienced the story for themselves are convinced it's going to be rubbish.
I read a few reviews and they were a bit mixed about the story. IGN weren't impressed but Gamespot were gushing. Having played all of the previous games, I'm anxious to find out what happens in that unexplored gap that turns Big Boss into the man we know him to be.
I guess it's just the fan inside me, but I can't help but feel like MGS has always been an acquired taste tonally and story-wise. You've got ridiculous things like a dog with an eyepatch, a female soldier wearing a bikini and extracting wild animals with a balloon. Then you have serious issues like revenge, child soldiers and torture mixed in. Sure sounds like "classic" MGS to me.
I read a few reviews and they were a bit mixed about the story. IGN weren't impressed but Gamespot were gushing. Having played all of the previous games, I'm anxious to find out what happens in that unexplored gap that turns Big Boss into the man we know him to be.
I guess it's just the fan inside me, but I can't help but feel like MGS has always been an acquired taste tonally and story-wise. You've got ridiculous things like a dog with an eyepatch, a female soldier wearing a bikini and extracting wild animals with a balloon. Then you have serious issues like revenge, child soldiers and torture mixed in. Sure sounds like "classic" MGS to me.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
Fuck, someone linked a Youtube video with all the Metal Gear themes and bonus songs and listening to them it's just hit me that this is the end of an era, the last game in the saga. Each theme invokes vivid memories of the awesome times I had playing them.
I think the end of this game is going to destroy me.
I think the end of this game is going to destroy me.
anyasok
Member
I will definitely give it a go, but again, more so out of a sense of obligation for the last game of the series and as a send-off to Kojima.
Codecs were a huge part of what made MGS such a great game for me. MGS 1 established them as a staple of the series (coming off of a similar but less robust implementation in the older 2D games). Its just not the same for me without them. Its really hard to explain in words as its something that's deeply imprinted on my psyche that I simply love and can't really envision not having. The other aspects that the game lacks are equally egregious to me, but the beautiful thing about every MGS from 1-4 was the fact that codecs were there, story was awesome, David Hayter voiced the protagonist who always had a lot to say, the boss fights were memorable, cutscenes were amazing and the game was focused linearly on the story elements that made the series so great.
Now we get occasional story, barely any commentary, Sutherland, one-minute cutscenes, and a whole boatload of fulton extraction, motherbase building and base infiltration along with sidekicks to help you approach this boredom with the way you want.
I can definitely see the appeal of that and why you would think the series was evolving all this time to this. But I find the prospect of doing all that as extremely boring and busywork that I would avoid. Now it turns out that towards the end of the game, you have to keep doing it on higher difficulty levels to get to the late story. Are you kidding me? What a way to rub it in!
If reviews are anything to go by in this world, this reads like an antithesis to everything I would want in a MGS game.
The best way to put is that the old games slowly raise the tension from the beginning so it works with the heavy story focus. They're linear so it's also easier to do.
MGSV isn't and so the story pacing is off, especially because it's a pretty long game. It's hard to consistently raise tension when I spend five hours doing some other crap, and then finally get around to progressing further. But it also kind of feels like it's intentionally subdued, and that hurts it because it's not a 15 hour game. This leads to some jarring moments, but the end run is pretty solid, and welcome since you're getting most of the meat I guess.
That's kind of unfair. There is such a thing as better balance and this game would've benefitted tremendously from it. I definitely didn't want MGS4 but I didn't really want this either. I wanted MGS1 or 3 basically but with bigger areas.
It's not like all the area in this game is put to great use or something. You could achieve the same result by tightening it all up a little, and put a bit more of a focused story there.
Then you might wait for Digital Foundry's analysis closer to release. Game should run fine though.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
I'm just sad that Derrick's not here to tell us this isn't a proper stealth game.
De-mon
Member
anyasok
Member
Pretty much me right here. My hype has gone from "cautiously optimistic" to "devastatingly despondent".
I will give it a go just like you just to be fair and to trust my own judgement, but I know that all that I am left with is MGS1-4 and that this is going to be as bad as Portable Ops and Peace Walker were when I played them. I basically conveniently forgot about their existence and its regrettable that PP will likely suffer the same fate.
Spazznid
Member
Yongyea confirmed that there were boss battles, and they were amazing...
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Well said. I mentioned it before, that every game in the MGS series always evolved and did things differently than the previous iterations. You nailed that. Like, to compare, Gears of War 1 feels alot like Gears of War 2. The fundamentals are the same with slight changes to other mechanics rotating around those fundamentals. Meanwhile the difference between MGS1 and MGS2, it's alot harder to compare because the fundamentals have changes as well as having changes to other mechanics rotating around it. In a way that it feels alot like an MGS game, but it's completely different in that it's unique on its own, and unique amongst it's series. MGS1 and MGS2 are completely different games. MGS2 and MGS3 are completely different games. MGS3 and MGS4 are completely different. They play similar, they have a certain feel to them, but they are completely different at the same time.
And The Phantom Pain takes those things from Peace Walker-It takes Peace Walkers fundamentals, shifts them, and as such all the mechanics revolving around those fundamentals evolve as well.
Recruiting, Base building, Mission Structure, Building Weapons/equipment. These are the things both PW and TPP share. But each one is different enough, each one is handled in such a refreshing way that while someone can say 'Oh TPP sounds alot like PW, and I hated PW', that's only true on paper, it looks to be a whole different beast. The fact that they've shown hours of gameplay footage, hours of different ways to approach things, only strikes me as KojiPro being extremely confident in the product. We've seen more gameplay from TPP than any other MGS game, and while it does look like gameplay is forefront this time around, that's fine. It's simply another evolution of the series. We already got the big, exposition filled, crazy cutscene heavy MGS4. We know how the story is. We know where Big Boss ends up. To end the series with pure gameplay, to wrap this tale in an ouroboros, to contrast with the end of the story that was cutscene heavy with the beginning of the story being gameplay heavy...
....it's poetic.
I'm so damn hyped for my own good.
anyasok
Member
I'm a little worried also since I hated Peace Walker, but Ground Zeroes played really well mechanically so I'm still excited. At least for the gameplay.Exactly how I feel.
The game keeps getting 10/10 but upon reading all the reviews, all I am getting are vibes of Peace Walker and Portable Ops which were games I never even finished. Didn't like all that Fulton and Mother Base bullshit. Hated the lack of the grandiose cutscenes of the numbered MGS games (I can still re-play all the previous games and have tons of fun) and everyone points out how EVERYTHING i loved about the series is gone: its a weak story now, with no codec, no grandiose cutscenes, no David Hayter, silent snake, almost no boss fights and a shitload of open-world infiltration and customization that I honestly don't care about - that's NOT what a series represented for me since the masterpiece of the first game.
I just wanted MGS5 with the same type of gameplay and everything else from the previous game, same linearity, same amazing boss fights and cutscenes, same intriguing codec conversations and now its all gone.
FUCK this
It does sound like a lot of the narrative stuff from the first four mainline games is gone, and that saddens me since I'm a fiend for Metal Gear lore. Like I was just watching Greg Miller's review and he talked about how the story never got its hooks in him like previous MGS games and that there weren't any insane / memorable character moments.
Ah well. I'm just glad Kojima at least got to take the series in a new direction with the gameplay. It sounds pretty ambitious with the open-world and some of the mechanics.
PapaJustify
Member
I dunno, but the reviews feel a bit overhyped and sensationalist. Of course, I couldn't tell since I haven't played the game yet. I am looking forward to try it.
It does have similarities to that, but it's much better. Peace Walker is a really crap game so not liking that doesn't mean you won't like this. This is much more polished, interesting, and it doesn't take an unnecessary dump on a dead character in an attempt to ruin things you might like. That's a pretty big headstart.Damn so this is sounding like peacewalker plus
viveks86
Member
Whoa!
Bigboss242
Banned
Annoying people who keep shitting on peace walker should go away and not play what is essential peace walker 2 bye we don't want you here.
The tapes will likely have more useless trivia than MGS4's codec.