Support NeoGAF

[Ally of Justice]

If we go by history or recognition:

• Shulk has only one game, and being rather new, a lot of people wouldn't either associate him with Nintendo nor even recognize him.
  
• Dark Pit appeared only in one game. No one would argue on both Pit and Palutena, since they come from early Nintendo history, but Dark Pit appeared only in one game (Although he was probably included because of Sakurai)
  
• Ness comes from Nintendo early history too, but people can't even play Lucas' game because it was not released outside of Japan. To most people, he would be unknown and only related to Ness (and, therefore, Ness' "games") by virtue of being similar in artstyle to him and his moveset.

Smash Bros characters are not in because of a celebration of popularity or history (Greninja was chosen before XY were released) or anything like that. We can only wonder what Sakurai's thinking when he decides on a character, but saying that a character introduction would cheapen the roster, that's too much.

Nintendo has been supporting Indies openly for a while now and Shovel Knight was released first for Wii U, 3DS and PC. Both Shovel Knight has found great success with (for an Indie) and it takes as basis a 8-bit aesthetic (Which makes most people immediately think about the NES). Shovel Knight is also one of the most well known current indie characters so it would be not only because of it being Shovel Knight, but as a representative of the whole Indie game developer movement.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Snake basically shatters most of these rules anyway; not nintendo, nowhere near as big as sonic and pac-man, only in because sakurai thought it would be fun.

 

[Kevtones]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/08/game_confirms_shovel_knight_amiibo

... Confirmed?

 

[V-Faction]

If he's in, he's in.

Who's with me? "I'm Alright With Shovel Knight." Tally-ho!

 

[Aaronrules380]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/08/game_confirms_shovel_knight_amiibo

... Confirmed?

Already posted. THe amiibo is definitely real, the question remaining is it's relationship with Smash

 

[redcrayon]

Maybe Sakurai just saw potential in his moveset to do something different than a clone of other weapon-users? He's also quite a lighthearted character, and stands out well on screen due to the clean lines of his armour and exaggerated, bold silhouette (that's why he has the silly oversized horns). I think he fits rather well.

I don't really get the idea that a character has to be either a first-party creation or a gaming icon with a lengthy history either, it's not like the rules are set in stone, and with fifty-odd characters there's room for a few wild cards. Shovel Knight came out first on Nintendo consoles, saying that he has no more links to Nintendo than any other multiplat indie title is a little unfair when Nintendo have gone out of their way to promote it at various shows over the last 18 months.

 

[Ally of Justice]

Already posted. THe amiibo is definitely real, the question remaining is it's relationship with Smash

Wouldn't the item description give some information about it?
It's not like Smash Bros is just a game with Amiibo functionality, but THE game to have if you want your Amiibos to be of use.

 

[BassForever]

It's possible that it is the Smash amiibo but they don't want to announce that yet. I'm interested to see what the functionality is going to be. Maybe there will be a reason to announce the amiibo ahead of announcing Shovel Knight as a DLC character.

The thing is the amiibo clearly leaked ahead of time with a written up info about what it can be used for. If they were planning to announce both SK for Smash and his amiibo tonight you'd think they'd mention that somewhere in that blurb with the image. What you say might still happen with the amiibo being revealed tonight and SK as a character from the Ballot being revealed in a month or two with the description being updated to include the Smash part, but at least for now it seems like they might only be revealing the amiibo tonight which in itself is a megaton IMO.

 

[BGBW]

It's not like Smash Bros is just a game with Amiibo functionality, but THE game to have if you want your Amiibos to be of use.

Like the Inklings, Toad and the Animal Crossing characters?

 

[Ryce]

If we go by history or recognition:

• Shulk has only one game, and being rather new, a lot of people wouldn't either associate him with Nintendo nor even recognize him.
  
• Dark Pit appeared only in one game. No one would argue on both Pit and Palutena, since they come from early Nintendo history, but Dark Pit appeared only in one game (Although he was probably included because of Sakurai)
  
• Ness comes from Nintendo early history too, but people can't even play Lucas' game because it was not released outside of Japan. To most people, he would be unknown and only related to Ness (and, therefore, Ness' "games") by virtue of being similar in artstyle to him and his moveset.

Smash Bros characters are not in because of a celebration of popularity or history (Greninja was chosen before XY were released) or anything like that. We can only wonder what Sakurai's thinking when he decides on a character, but saying that a character introduction would cheapen the roster, that's too much.

You listed Nintendo characters. Nobody's arguing against minor Nintendo characters. The concern is that guest characters are supposed to be a big deal, and Shovel Knight doesn't measure up to Sonic, Pac-Man, Ryu, or Mega Man.

 

[Beelzebufo]

The thing is the amiibo clearly leaked ahead of time with a written up info about what it can be used for. If they were planning to announce both SK for Smash and his amiibo tonight you'd think they'd mention that somewhere in that blurb with the image. What you say might still happen with the amiibo being revealed tonight and SK as a character from the Ballot being revealed in a month or two with the description being updated to include the Smash part, but at least for now it seems like they might only be revealing the amiibo tonight which in itself is a megaton IMO.

Yeah, I think we're just getting the amiibo tonight with the character announced later. But didn't Ash's source say we're definitely getting a reveal soon?

 

[BassForever]

Yeah, I think we're just getting the amiibo tonight with the character announced later. But didn't Ash's source say we're definitely getting a reveal soon?

Ash's source could be me making a fake twitter account and messaging him saying I have inside sources that confirm all these rumors and here are some moves, heck I'm sure any one of Smash GAF could come up with 7 moves for SK that would fit the character while feeling uniquely Sakurai while making up stage elements.

 

[James Scott]

Is the GAME render a render they found on the Internet somewhere? Or is it new?

 

[Coffee Dog]

You listed Nintendo characters. Nobody's arguing against minor Nintendo characters. The concern is that guest characters are supposed to be a big deal, and Shovel Knight doesn't measure up to Sonic, Pac-Man, Ryu, or Mega Man.

Guest characters stopped being "a big deal" with snake.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

On a level that surely no one at Nintendo is actually concerned with but is still interesting to think about, Shovel Knight kind of represents the Yin to Mighty No. 9's Yang. People who were sorta only kind of known but didn't have a big name attached asked for money to make a retro love letter to Capcom-style NES games even though none of them ever worked at Capcom. The game gets delayed and they're extremely apologetic and communicative and want everyone to understand why. Then the game comes out, it's amazing, there's significant DLC planned for free, and they do well enough to the point where they can publish the game on their own.

It's like the total opposite of MN9.

Yeah but is Shovel Knight getting his own cartoon show? Didn't think so.

Mighty No. 9 - 1
Shovel Knight - 0

Spoiler

Being involved with No. 9's kickstarter and not Shovel Knight's makes me feel all the worse now.

 

[Regulus Tera]

You listed Nintendo characters. Nobody's arguing against minor Nintendo characters. The concern is that guest characters are supposed to be a big deal, and Shovel Knight doesn't measure up to Sonic, Pac-Man, Ryu, or Mega Man.

Well, then the question becomes why are guest characters supposed to be a big deal?

 

[backlot]

The thing is the amiibo clearly leaked ahead of time with a written up info about what it can be used for. If they were planning to announce both SK for Smash and his amiibo tonight you'd think they'd mention that somewhere in that blurb with the image. What you say might still happen with the amiibo being revealed tonight and SK as a character from the Ballot being revealed in a month or two with the description being updated to include the Smash part, but at least for now it seems like they might only be revealing the amiibo tonight which in itself is a megaton IMO.

Yeah, this is exactly why I'm thinking they won't have a Smash announcement tonight. Doesn't make sense to inform retailers about a new amiibo but withhold that it's compatible with Smash if all that info was intended to be announced at the same time.

 

[TheDinoman]

Well, then the question becomes why are guest characters supposed to be a big deal?

Because Smash Bros. is about Nintendo and its history as a game company. Obviously, having non-Nintendo characters in a game like this is going to be a big deal.

 

[Zalman]

Is the GAME render a render they found on the Internet somewhere? Or is it new?

It's not new.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Ash's source could be me making a fake twitter account and messaging him saying I have inside sources that confirm all these rumors and here are some moves, heck I'm sure any one of Smash GAF could come up with 7 moves for SK that would fit the character while feeling uniquely Sakurai while making up stage elements.

Well if nothing else we'll know if we can take that specific source seriously or not!

Maybe the amiibo on GAME is being paid for and distributed by YCG, but we're also getting a separate one produced by Nintendo for Smash? That hasn't been announced because it won't come out for a long time (after Ryu)?

 

[BassForever]

Well, then the question becomes why are guest characters supposed to be a big deal?

IIRC Sakurai said something along the lines of "not just any guest character can appear in smash, they have to be special" at E3 2013 when talking about Mega Man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQD1yJinzeQ&t=3m56s

"I'm not going to have just any character participate from other companies, but he's definitively in a class of his own"

 

[Crocodile]

I'm not making an argument for or against Shovel Knight's inclusion but I really wish people would stop comparing Shovel Knight to C-Tier Nintendo characters. The argument that 3rd Party Characters should be set to a higher standard for inclusion isn't a particularly contentious stance.

 

[Coffee Dog]

IIRC Sakurai said something along the lines of "not just any guest character can appear in smash, they have to be special" at E3 2013 when talking about Mega Man

Yeah, that's why we're getting shovel knight. :^)

 

[Camjo-Z]

Well, then the question becomes why are guest characters supposed to be a big deal?

Because otherwise you get Big Daddy and New Dante.

 

[Aaronrules380]

IIRC Sakurai said something along the lines of "not just any guest character can appear in smash, they have to be special" at E3 2013 when talking about Mega Man

To be fair though, Sakurai says many things. He also said the villager wouldn't get in because he didn't feel like a character that would fight back during the brawl period

 

[Coffee Dog]

Because otherwise you get Big Daddy and New Dante.

And is shovel knight, the face of Nintendo's indie push, anywhere near as bad as those?

 

[Ryce]

Guest characters stopped being "a big deal" with snake.

LOL, what? Metal Gear is one of the best-selling video game series in the world. The release of a new Metal Gear Solid is always a big event.

 

[Camjo-Z]

And is shovel knight, the face of Nintendo's indie push, anywhere near as bad as those?

He has just as little to do with Nintendo as they did to Sony, so yes.

 

[Roto13]

Why do we care what some anonymous dipshit on Twitter says?

 

[kirby_fox]

Shovel Knight makes sense and doesn't make sense to add.

With that said, Layton, Shovel Knight, Wolf and another character could be what we're getting.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Why do we care what some anonymous dipshit on Twitter says?

Because he's saying the same thing as all the other sources, but gave us a specific reveal time that's exciting because its tonight.

 

[redcrayon]

I'm not making an argument for or against Shovel Knight's inclusion but I really wish people would stop comparing Shovel Knight to C-Tier Nintendo characters. The argument that 3rd Party Characters should be set to a higher standard for inclusion isn't a particularly contentious stance.

Unlike many C-tier Nintendo characters, Shovel Knight appeared on a lot of GOTY lists recently. Actually, unlike many A-tier Nintendo characters too

Spoiler

Where's my Metroid, sob

Why don't we wait and see whether his move set makes him worth including and makes the match-ups more interesting for his inclusion, rather than it being based solely on historical significance? I'm not really sure that inclusion in Smash is such a serious business that it's so contentious either, maybe Sakurai just enjoyed SK and thinks he's fun.

I think SK is potentially quite iconic, although not as much as that bloke's hat from Watch Dogs /s

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Is the GAME render a render they found on the Internet somewhere? Or is it new?

The 3D model is new, the image at the top corner is old.

What's also new is the Smash Logo styled render at the top left. That's probably the most interesting part of the entire Amiibo, at least for Smash fans.

 

[Zalman]

Why don't we wait and see whether his move set makes him worth including and makes the match-ups more interesting for his inclusion, rather than it being based solely on historical significance? I'm not really sure that inclusion in Smash is such a serious business that it's so contentious, maybe Sakurai just thinks he's fun.

I'm sure he would be fun to play as, but Smash Bros. is about Nintendo's legacy. Discussing historical significance is important.

 

[Kouichi]

I remember a time when people argued that any third party character would cheapen the Smash roster. Now people argue specific third party characters will do it.

Just funny thing to reminiscence about. People making up their own criteria will never stop being nonsense.

 

[Ally of Justice]

Like the Inklings, Toad and the Animal Crossing characters?

Smash Bros is still the game to have if you want your Amiibos to have a real functionality instead of being just a way to get a small addition or an unlock (I know Splatoon Amiibo are a kind of a considerable deal, but they don't do anything else than to unlock something)

In Smash Bros, Amiibos "come to life", while in other games, they just unlock. Also, Smash supports almost all Amiibos released so far, unlike the other games just using theirs and a couple more.

You listed Nintendo characters. Nobody's arguing against minor Nintendo characters. The concern is that guest characters are supposed to be a big deal, and Shovel Knight doesn't measure up to Sonic, Pac-Man, Ryu, or Mega Man.

Obviously Shovel Knight doesn't measure up to videogame icons, but he is more like THE representative of the new-wave indie movement that Nintendo has been pushing a lot on new consoles.
Shovel Knight is not a big deal if compare him to Sonic, Megaman or Pac-man, but he's not only the face of the indie developers, but something like the "dream" of those developing and releasing games for consoles.

So, ultimately, he's wouldn't be a representative of a third party company or game series, but the concept of the Independent Videogame Developers, like how Game & Watch represents the pre-NES Nintendo era.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I'm sure he would be fun to play as, but Smash Bros. is about Nintendo's legacy. Discussing historical significance is important.

I imagine Smash Bros. is about whatever they say it's about at that particular moment.

 

[redcrayon]

I'm sure he would be fun to play as, but Smash Bros. is about Nintendo's legacy. Discussing historical significance is important.

Nintendo's legacy is huge and makes up the vast majority of the game to the point where one character out of fifty can't really make a difference. There's always room for a bit of fun in a game about toys-to-life hitting each other on screen.

 

[Regulus Tera]

IIRC Sakurai said something along the lines of "not just any guest character can appear in smash, they have to be special" at E3 2013 when talking about Mega Man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQD1yJinzeQ&t=3m56s

"I'm not going to have just any character participate from other companies, but he's definitively in a class of his own"

Because otherwise you get Big Daddy and New Dante.

Again:

It doesn't say to vote for the best deserving special snowflake videogame character in Smash, it says to vote for your favorite video game character. It wouldn't be the first time Sakurai says something only to do the complete opposite at the first opportunity.

 

[Aostia]

If Sk amiibo is real I wish it is not one of a kind but the first of a new Line of indie inspired amiibo.

 

[Dr. Buni]

IIRC Sakurai said something along the lines of "not just any guest character can appear in smash, they have to be special" at E3 2013 when talking about Mega Man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQD1yJinzeQ&t=3m56s

"I'm not going to have just any character participate from other companies, but he's definitively in a class of his own"

What if Sakurai considers Shovel Knight to be special for whatever reason?

I'm sure he would be fun to play as, but Smash Bros. is about Nintendo's legacy. Discussing historical significance is important.

What is impeding Shovel Knight from becoming part of Nintendo's legacy?

 

[Beelzebufo]

What if Sakurai is just a huge sell out, and added Shovel Knight because a lot of people wanted him and he's a cool video game character that fits in well with the rest of the cast aesthetically?

 

[User1608]

What if Sakurai is just a huge sell out, and added Shovel Knight because a lot of people wanted him and he's a cool video game character that fits in well with the rest of the cast aesthetically?

That would be a perfect justification really. "People wanted him and he's neat so we listened."

 

[Coffee Dog]

What if Sakurai is just a huge sell out, and added Shovel Knight because a lot of people wanted him and he's a cool video game character that fits in well with the rest of the cast aesthetically?

We'll just have to accept that a fun character with a unique moveset is in the game and hope that everyone hates him so he never comes back :'(

 

[Dr. Buni]

What if Sakurai is just a huge sell out, and added Shovel Knight because a lot of people wanted him and he's a cool video game character that fits in well with the rest of the cast aesthetically?

What about muh relevance?

hope that everyone hates him so he never comes back :'(

Why?

 

[Aaronrules380]

What if Sakurai is just a huge sell out, and added Shovel Knight because a lot of people wanted him and he's a cool video game character that fits in well with the rest of the cast aesthetically?

Still a way better reason than why Snake got in.

 

[BassForever]

Again:

http://i.imgur.com/SPsNVIH.png

It doesn't say to vote for the best deserving special snowflake videogame character in Smash, it says to vote for your favorite video game character. It wouldn't be the first time Sakurai says something only to do the complete opposite at the first opportunity.

What if Sakurai considers Shovel Knight to be special for whatever reason?
What is impeding Shovel Knight from becoming part of Nintendo's legacy?

I'm down for SK in Smash, I'm just posting the quote people are probably referencing

 

[Dr. Buni]

I'm down for SK in Smash, I'm just posting the quote people are probably referencing

Ok ok, but the question is still valid for other posters who might believe in that quote.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Still a way better reason than why Snake got in.

You still salty about the disjointed hitboxes aren't you?

I'm down for SK in Smash, I'm just posting the quote people are probably referencing

Fair enough.

 

[Beelzebufo]

What about muh relevance?

Why?

Because we have integrity