-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Rumor (with a side of salt): Shovel Knight coming to Smash Wii U/3DS?
- Thread starter BY2K
- Start date
balladofwindfishes
Member
I think Smash 4 gets a bad rep for stages, and I don't think it's because they're bad. I think it's more because they're kind of just... kind of bland. And the stages that are bad are really bad. GCO manages to be one of, if not the, worst stage in the entire series. It's too big, but it looks nice visually, except it's covered in blotches of lava everywhere that ruin what otherwise could have been the redeeming quality of the stage.
Besides the really awful duds, there are more comp viable stages than the scene knows what to do with, and there are plenty of good casual stages as well, even the ones without obnoxious hazards.
And the two non-retro DLC stages were great. Miiverse has a fun gimmick and a very slightly different Battlefield layout keeps it interesting. Sasuke Castle is gorgeous and although it has a walkoff, it's not terrible at all.
I also think Smash 4 gets a bad rep because, while the Wii U version is pretty much on par with Brawl's stage selection, the 3DS version is easily the worst in the series. Even with only about a third the amount of stages, the N64 version manages to be much better. It's especially dissappointing because the 3DS got two of my most wanted stages (Paper Mario + N's Castle) and they both weren't fun to play on.
Battlefield, FD, the Brawl Yoshi stage, Corneria, Arena Ferox, the Gen 6 Pokemon stage and the DLC stages are the only fun stages on that version
Probably. Which isn't too bad, honestly. I guess I'm more bitter about franchises that have been around since day one, and have multiple stages per game, sticking to a theme for every single stage. Like how Metroid always has the Lava/Monster level when you have settings like Phendrana Drifts and Skytown, or how Donkey Kong's always bringing the Jungle level despite Minecart stages arguably being just as important to the series. Plus, I'm still disappointed that Sonic got a second "Grassy Hill Zone" styled level instead of something like the Casino Night Zone, even if, as a guest character, it's slightly more justifiable.
Plains of Passage is probably way too basic of a stage to seem interesting, but Pridemoor Keep would do a pretty good job of making itself distinct from the other castle stages (Especially because I'm assuming it'd look 8-Bit ala both Mushroom Kingdom stages). It's colors are vivid, it'd probably emphasize the castle's parapets, and does a fantastic job of screaming "This is a Shovel Knight stage." In retrospect, although I like the Explodatorium more, I'd be fine with Pridemoor Keep. Shovel Knight would be a 3rd Party Newcomer; they have every reason to pick a "basic" stage from his series because it would be making its Smash debut.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I dislike that some of the best and most iconic retro stages are trapped on the 3DS. Stuff like Brinstar and Corneria are classics of Smash (versions of them have been in every game since 64), they have no reason to not be on both versions, especially since the 3DS makes both of them look hideous (RIP walking Chozo). Not having Corneria or some sort of Brinstar on the Wii U just feels... wrong. No Great Fox stage in a Smash game? That's not right at all. Them being on the 3DS also makes Sector Z and Planet Zebes all the less likely, as they'd be redundant as their "remakes" are already on the 3DS.
The Wii U ended up with scraps for Melee stages because the 3DS took the iconic ones (other than Temple). There are more 64 stages than Melee stages...
The Yoshi Retro stages also should have been switched, with the Wii U getting YI:B and the 3DS getting YI:M, because YI:M looks a little odd/dated in HD, while YI:B seems like it would look amazing in HD. And YI:B should also have been put on the version that was going to be used for competitive play, because YI:B is a really great comp stage.
Coffee Dog
Banned
I was about to express surprise at the opinion of smash 4's stages, but then I remembered that you guys can't handle stage hazards without throwing a fit. 
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
There's stage hazards and then there's Yellow Devil taking up one third of the playing arena while dodging his blobs of hell.I was about to express surprise at the opinion of smash 4's stages, but then I remembered that you guys can't handle stage hazards without throwing a fit.
The point is that they should have given the legal stages to the Wii U, since it was the version that was destined for competitive play.I was about to express surprise at the opinion of smash 4's stages, but then I remembered that you guys can't handle stage hazards without throwing a fit.
I was about to express surprise at the opinion of smash 4's stages, but then I remembered that you guys can't handle stage hazards without throwing a fit.
Pirate Ship did stage hazards right. You can avoid them for the most part, they aren't overly intrusive and aren't completely random.
Smash 4 has too many stages where it's a constant stage hazard in the way. You had stage hazards in previous Smash games that were annoying- but could still be mostly avoidable. It feels like in this game Sakurai didn't want to get rid of boss battles and thought to just throw them into stages and become super disruptive.
balladofwindfishes
Member
All of the cut Brawl Melee stages feel weird missing. I had grown accustomed to those being considered the "core" Melee stages that would stick around forever.
Guess not. Who would have thought Green Greens, one of the most heavily pushed stages of Melee's trailers and stuff, would end up out of the series, potentially forever...
I'd also like to point out until Dreamland 64, Smash 4 lacked a Wispy stage of any kind, which had been a Smash tradition since the start of the series.
I was about to express surprise at the opinion of smash 4's stages, but then I remembered that you guys can't handle stage hazards without throwing a fit.
Stage Hazards can be fine; WarioWare's fantastic, for example, and I love Woolly World, Boxing Ring, and Pilotwings. It's just that there're a number of stages like Pac-Land and Gaur Plains in the Wii U version, where the hazards are plentiful, intrusive, and all-around unenjoyable.
I mean, I play in tournaments, so that also has me wanting more of a variety in tourney-legal stages. But even when I'm just playing for fun, there's just way too many stages that I actively try to avoid picking. I'd love for DLC to fix that up, myself.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I was about to express surprise at the opinion of smash 4's stages, but then I remembered that you guys can't handle stage hazards without throwing a fit.
The difference between a good stage hazard and a poor one is if the stage becomes more about fighting the stage than the characters.
Something like Icicle Mountain (to name an older stage) is an example of an obnoxious, intrusive hazard. There's no way to have a sensible fight on that stage, it's a matter of who has the best air mobility or who "plays" the stage right. There's hardly any time to even play Smash when fighting against the scrolling and ceilings and slipping.
Another example is the Yellow Devil. You can't ignore the Yellow Devil. You just have to pause whatever was going on, clean up the boss and get back to actually playing Smash. It takes up too much space, happens too frequently, and is too powerful.
A good hazard is something like Halberd. All of Halberd's hazards are well telegraphed. The game clearly shows when and where the hazard will strike and players are able to fight around the hazard without it interrupting their gameplay and the flow of battle. And they don't happen all that frequently.
To name a stage that isn't tournament legal, but has good hazards, I look at Mario Circuit 8. The stage has varied designs that happen frequently, but not fast enough that you can't enjoy them. The karts are basically non-existent on the stage. They happen so infrequently, sometimes you might not even ever see a single Shy Guy. The ceilings and walls are placed in a way that invoke the feelings of Temple, where parts can become a fun little pinball game with players bouncing around.
And then you have a stage like Orbital Gate where the stage just transforms way too fast. There's too much going on. The hazards are hard to predict, and often you'll just die because you happened to be at the wrong spot on the screen when something decided to move with no warning. And then we're told they spent an entire year on the stage. A stage that's poorly designed and gets basically no play what so ever by anyone. It doesn't even show up in single player modes all that frequently. And they spent an entire year on it that could have been spent making smaller, simpler stages that more people would have enjoyed. And you just have to shake your head and wonder why they bothered.
Speaking of which, Great Cave Offensive and Palutena's Temple are so bad, they're banned from single player.
SandMan2233
Member
This man gets it. The focus should be on the fighting against players, not defense against stage hazzards. Halberd is a good example, since like you said, everything about it is telegraphed. You learn the stage, rather than stress against it.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
People really hate walk offs.
Dimitri LH
Member
I always found it odd how walk offs are hated on.
MaverickHunterAsh
Member
I love walk-offs and am fine with stage hazards outside the Yellow Devil and Ridley. Smash Wii U's stage roster getting such a bad rap is incredibly dumb and very unfair IMO.
I think a good 80-85% of Smash Wii U's stages are enormously fun to play on... not counting Omega stages, of course. If we're including Omegas, the percentage drops severely to like 50-55%. So boring, my god.
Bring Pirate Ship back, Sakurai.
The hazards are perfect and it's so much better then dull-ass Bridge of Eldin...
I think a good 80-85% of Smash Wii U's stages are enormously fun to play on... not counting Omega stages, of course. If we're including Omegas, the percentage drops severely to like 50-55%. So boring, my god.
Bring Pirate Ship back, Sakurai.
The hazards are perfect and it's so much better then dull-ass Bridge of Eldin...I love walk-offs and am fine with stage hazards outside the Yellow Devil and Ridley. Smash Wii U's stage roster getting such a bad rap is incredibly dumb and very unfair IMO.
I think a good 80-85% of Smash Wii U's stages are enormously fun to play on... not counting Omega stages, of course. If we're including Omegas, the percentage drops severely to like 50-55%. So boring, my god.
Bring Pirate Ship back, Sakurai.
Completely agree with you. I don't like the Pyrosphere because of Ridley, it's a shame. It's just there too much, same with the Yellow Devil.
I don't get the hate for stage hazards, it stops them from all being very similar stages and that's the best thing.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Since we are getting off the topic so I urge people to discuss about it at Smash Bros Ballot Thread for DLC contents (other than Shovel Knight)
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1021840
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1021840
*scroll scroll scroll*
Well there it is. The hint for our next DLC character. I, for one, welcome our eShop rep!
See. This is Sakurai's plan to make people not want Ridley playable. Make him a shitty stage hazard so people hate him and don't vote for him in the Smash Ballot. It's genius. But I will not fall for his ploy.
I just wish Sakurai would offer an OPTION to play stages as is without Hazards. Not Omega Mode, just straight up, without Hazards.
Dimitri LH
Member
IIRC, Ridley does not appear if 5 or more players play on the stage I think.
On topic: I admit, im starting to get hyped about monday. I just hope we get something unexpected like Ryu and Roy.
On topic: I admit, im starting to get hyped about monday. I just hope we get something unexpected like Ryu and Roy.
I never thought of this, but damn, that would make a lot of sense.
Count me in the team that'd much rather have Palutena's Temple be a 1/5th as big and have us a handful of extra stages with the rest of it. The layout is ridiculous.
I find Paper Mario's first section to be alright (if bland, and with a huge walkoff) the second section to be AWESOME (should have been the stage by itself in all honesty) and the Bowser's Castle part to have a head-scratchingly bad layout. Whose brilliant idea was it to let the only playable terrain be that?
This is an issue that gets repeated, I assume, because Sakurai feels those representations -have- to be there one way or the other. Ya know, like, theme park versions of the franchises, for more casual players. Hence stuff like the Star Fox stage in Brawl taking place in a ship that didn't even exist in the series.
This school of thought carries over to music and that's where things get rough. There's always a new remix of the series' main themes because Sakurai must think (not without reason) that those are the most recognizable and thus can't be missing. However this leads to the issue of reinventing the wheel with the soundtrack everytime, and not allowing as much room as there could be to explore themes beyond the more iconic ones. DK's situation is just absurd, a franchise with some of the most praised sountracks in Nintendo's history, stuck with eight freakin' remixes of a song we've all heard to no end.
There's already such a "mode" in the game, no stage comes with hazards when you play through them in All Stars. So it'd be a matter of giving us the option to access it ourselves, but no dice. Which is rather odd in a game that's so open about customization.
Back to stages, you know, I always thought they would offer the 3DS exclusive stages as DLC for Smash Wii U and viceversa...But now I think that's highly unlikely. What I could see happening is the NX releasing with a Smash deluxe that includes the complete stage list between both Wii U and 3DS versions. How's that for a double dipping incentive?
Dr. Buni
Member
Omega Mode already does that, it just that most of the Smash fandom in the west hate Final Destination/flat stages for whatever reason
Yeah, it favors certain character, but so does Battlefield :3
poodaddy
Member
I want this more than words can describe. Shovel Knight is the best thing I've played in almost two decades, (the only thing that I've loved as much was Chrono Trigger), and I want to see him everywhere. Shovel Knight is literally the game I used to get my daughter into gaming in a serious manner and I can only imagine how much fun we'd have playing Smash now, ( we already both play it for at least an hour or two a day, but Shovel Knight would probably double that number just like Ryu doubled it when he came out.)
Speaking of which, and this is off topic, but where the hell is my Ryu amiibo?!? Seriously....
Speaking of which, and this is off topic, but where the hell is my Ryu amiibo?!? Seriously....
I need it
Dimitri LH
Member
Beelzebufo
Banned
I think the Shovel Knight stage will either be based on:
The tutorial stage, just a generic foresty area with rocks to destroy and maybe a dinosaur
The first village, with other characters in the background (8bit for the 3ds?)
The Order of No Quarter's castle, probably in the background a la Wily.
The tutorial stage, just a generic foresty area with rocks to destroy and maybe a dinosaur
The first village, with other characters in the background (8bit for the 3ds?)
The Order of No Quarter's castle, probably in the background a la Wily.
Best Nintendo Fan Ever
Banned
Huh? What's happening Monday?
Dr. Buni
Member
Maintenance, as far as we know.
Dimitri LH
Member
Either Joy or Profound Sadness.....its best to expect the latter lol.
Nope, Ryu's Amiibo is out next year.
I've already set myself up for disappointment, expecting Shovel Knight this weekend; it's too late to save me, but you guys can still make it. Don't make the same mistakes I did!
Wandering Robot
Member
It REALLY is time for a new Direct. I won't put much stock in a rumor, but I guess a Direct would be a good enough event to get hyped (or not)--especially since it's been 2 1/2 months since E3.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Should come out next year right before the second Shovel Knight amiibo
Yeah, it's really frustrating that some of my favorite stages from previous games are stuck in the 3DS version. In fact, I think I love all of them outside of Mushroomy Kingdom. Honestly, I feel that overall the 3DS version's stages are a lot better than the Wii U ones. Really wish that they'd make them downloadable in the Wii U version.
I have to disagree about YI:M though. That stage is fantastic in the Wii U version, especially in 8-player Smash. I do wish that YI:B was also in the game though. It's a nice little stage.
I think they're trying to reevaluate their strategy with Nintendo Directs in the wake of Iwata's unfortunate passing. I do think we'll get Nintendo Directs again eventually, just not in the next month or two. That being said, Smash Directs never involved Iwata, so there is hope that those could happen again eventually. But the fact that they haven't hyped up anything makes it hard for me to believe that anything substantial will come out of Monday's maintenance. Maybe another wave of Mii Costumes, sure, but I highly doubt that we'll get another character soon (once again, I'd love to be wrong).
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
My expectation with upcoming Monday is absolutely nothing!
Yeah, I have an exactly same feeling about some stages being stuck in 3DS version because I really enjoy those good stages! At least, it gave me and my friends good reasons to revisit 3DS once in awhile.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
In a sense, yes.
Honestly, I'm not fan of 3DS stick. I'm trying to enjoy it but sometime, I couldn't because of analog stick. I'm fine with most of stages being exclusive to 3DS but just give me few favorite stages.
Dr. Buni
Member
I wish the 3DS stages would be ported to the Wii U and vice versa, but I am against only the 3DS stages being ported to the Wii UIn a sense, yes.
Honestly, I'm not fan of 3DS stick. I'm trying to enjoy it but sometime, I couldn't because of analog stick. I'm fine with most of stages being exclusive to 3DS but just give me few favorite stages.
Also, I will never understand the complaints about the 3DS controls, but then again I don't get why everyone loves the GC controller so much either. The only reason I am playing the 3DS version less lately is because the option to upload replays on the Wii U version is huge for me.
Beelzebufo
Banned
I got rid of my 3DS smash as soon as Wii U came out because I had no reason to play it because it's a worse version of the same game. I miss the 3DS stages, but not really you know? I'd buy them if they came back but I don't need Magicant that badly.
I just hope that Shovel Knight's stage isn't gyped because it needs to work on 3DS. Guess we'll find out tomorrow.
I just hope that Shovel Knight's stage isn't gyped because it needs to work on 3DS. Guess we'll find out tomorrow.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
Are the new characters being added from the poll results?
At leas the best stage ever came back. I am of course talking about Lylat Cruise.
But yeah Smash 4's stages are pretty bad. I can't really think of one that I like except big battlefield and Little Macs stage.
What was the point of the Animal Crossing stage? It's almost exactly the same with a slightly different backdrop and platforms.
Also whats the last stage here? http://www.ssbwiki.com/images/a/a8/Stage_Select_SSB4-Wii_U_Normal.jpg
Brawl had some great stages,
Pits Skyworld, Lylat Cruise, luigis mansion, pirate ship, diamon/pearl stage, animal crossing stage, picto chat, mgs stage, even wario ware was better.
But yeah Smash 4's stages are pretty bad. I can't really think of one that I like except big battlefield and Little Macs stage.
What was the point of the Animal Crossing stage? It's almost exactly the same with a slightly different backdrop and platforms.
Also whats the last stage here? http://www.ssbwiki.com/images/a/a8/Stage_Select_SSB4-Wii_U_Normal.jpg
Brawl had some great stages,
Pits Skyworld, Lylat Cruise, luigis mansion, pirate ship, diamon/pearl stage, animal crossing stage, picto chat, mgs stage, even wario ware was better.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
I disagree, it's too big even for eight players.
Beelzebufo
Banned
It's too ugly for human players
Or we'll find out in the next month or two.
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
Great Cave Offensive can't be the worst Smash Bros stage because it has one of the best FD versions of itself.
Dimitri LH
Member
Nope, the poll closes in october.
If theres anything I want on the Wii U version from 3DS....its Smash Run damnit.