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[Cream]

With all the Mad Max talk, I was thinking about how most people consider it one of the best action movies in a very long time. A lot of people like to say that it "elevates" the genre, going places and doing things that action hasn't done in a long time, or possibly ever, depending on your perspective.

We all have our own opinions of the movie, of course, but I'd like to think what this movie does is really bring action movies up, in a big way. In a sense, if we're lucky, paving the way for future action movies to bring bigger and better things, assuming filmmakers and moviegoers respond well enough.

So, my question is, what movies in the past do you think "elevated" their genres, like Comedy, Drama, Thriller, Sci-Fi, Western, Horror, etc. And additionally, what qualities do you think movies for certain genres might need to have to do it again, and stop them from becoming stale?

 

[John Kowalski]

End of Eva elevated cinema.

 

[Sephzilla]

While I wouldn't call Star Wars pure "science fiction", it elevated space & science fiction movies a ton.

 

[The Lamonster]

Another Star Wars thread?


edit: brofist, Sephzilla

 

[JDSN]

End of Eva elevated cinema.

Yup, all movies should have dudes wanking on comatose girls.

 

[Slayven]

To me when someone speaks of elevating something it is usually as an excuse to enjoy that thing without looking like a dirty plebeian

 

[Admiral Woofington]

While not a genre itself I appreciated that chronicle got clever with its found footage style. American Akira.

 

[HiResDes]

People that say that about Mad Max have been only been watching Action movies over the past decade and should have their opinions discounted.

 

[Cream]

To me when someone speaks of elevating something it is usually as an excuse to enjoy that thing without looking like a dirty plebeian

I mostly agree, but I'd like to think genres sometimes go through slumps, and some movies bring them back up in a big way.

People that say that about Mad Max have been only been watching Action movies over the past decade and should have their opinions discounted.

Never tried to imply that it was the best ever or anything. But a decade is still a long time for Hollywood.

 

[Currygan]

Kubrick thread?

 

[Sephzilla]

People that say that about Mad Max have been only been watching Action movies over the past decade and should have their opinions discounted.

MadMaxThatsBait.gif

Fury Road absolutely earns its spot in the upper echelon of action movies that includes some of the greats from the 80s and 90s. I would say it's the best action movie to come out since The Matrix, which is a 16 year window.

 

[Hopfrog]

Might be an easy one, but The Godfather. There had been mobster movies before, and most expected that an adaptation of Puzo's book would be similarly pulpy. Instead we got a masterpiece that also serves as an allegory for the American experience.

 

[Monocle]

I'm not sure if the Lord of the Rings trilogy counts, but it certainly proved that fantasy movies can be as serious, dramatic, exciting, thematically rich, and accessible as any other genre.

People that say that about Mad Max have been only been watching Action movies over the past decade and should have their opinions discounted.

Nah, it really is that good.

 

[MrChocolate]

Yup, all movies should have dudes wanking on comatose girls.

Yes. Because that's what made EoE one of the greatest movies.

 

[Oersted]

While I wouldn't call Star Wars pure "science fiction", it elevated space & science fiction movies a ton.

There is nothing science fiction about it.Its fantasy. It elevated b-movies,mind you, which can be considered a genre.

Now Terminator, that elevated scifi.

 

[joelseph]

Paul Blart Mall Cop 1 elevated the comedy game. Sadly the sequel could not capture the same lightning in the bottle.

 

[HiResDes]

Nah, it really is that good.

It's good, but it doesn't really elevate the genre itself. Reinvigorate is a more accurate term.

 

[nynt9]

People that say that about Mad Max have been only been watching Action movies over the past decade and should have their opinions discounted.

That's part of the point though, no? It brought life back into a genre that had grown increasingly stale.

 

[jond76]

Point Break is in a separate league away from most action films. At least for me.

 

[Monocle]

It's good, but it doesn't really elevate the genre itself. Reinvigorate is a more accurate term.

I think a good argument can be made that it does elevate the genre by marrying rich characterization (primarily through visual storytelling) to traditionally mindless action, as well as by doing vehicular action better than damn near anything else. Fury Road's action is fundamentally character driven in a way I've never seen before.

 

[Cream]

People that say that about Mad Max have been only been watching Action movies over the past decade and should have their opinions discounted.

It's good, but it doesn't really elevate the genre itself. Reinvigorate is a more accurate term.

The way I'm using the term "elevate" is exactly the same as that.

There are very few movies I can compare to Fury Road.

 

[Oersted]

Paul Blart Mall Cop 1 elevated the comedy game. Sadly the sequel could not capture the same lightning in the bottle.

You gotta explain this one. Funny cop movies are a stable and have been done way better.

 

[HiResDes]

I think a good argument can be made that it does elevate the genre by marrying rich characterization (primarily through visual storytelling) to traditionally mindless action, as well as by doing vehicular action better than damn near anything else. Fury Road's action is fundamentally character driven in a way I've never seen before.

I actually don't find the characterization, plot, or anything other than the visuals and incredible effects to be particularly noteworthy. I mean compare it something like Bronson, which I concede is equal parts Drama and Action and the characters seem rather flat and static.

 

[Jacob]

I'm not sure if the Lord of the Rings trilogy counts, but it certainly proved that fantasy movies can be as serious, dramatic, exciting, thematically rich, and accessible as any other genre.

LOTR was what came to mind for me. It's impact on the fantasy genre (specifically epic fantasy) was enormous. Some credit has to go to Harry Potter (books and movies) coming out at the same time but talking just movies, I think LOTR takes the cake.

 

[Moppeh]

Scifi: 2001
Film a clef: Citizen Kane
Drama: Citizen Kane
Neorealism: Bicycle Thieves
War: Apocalypse Now
Adaptation: Adaptation
Noir: The Third Man
Crime: The Godfather
Fantasy: Lord of The Rings
Biopic: Lawrence of Arabia
Epic: Lawrence of Arabia
Propaganda: Battleship Potemkin

Basically my favorites from each genre, which isn't that suprising. One thing I consider criteria for a truly great film is how it works within its genre and uses or twists genre conventions in interesting ways.

 

[Cream]

I actually don't find the characterization, plot, or anything other than the visuals and incredible effects to be particularly noteworthy. I mean compare it something like Bronson, which I concede is equal parts Drama and Action and the characters seem rather flat and static.

What's noteworthy is how subtle the characterization and drama is presented, along with effortless world building, danger, stakes, and emotion is given to the audience, sometimes with absolutely no words.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Raiders of the Lost Ark

 

[Timeaisis]

Star Wars
Indiana Jones
Jaws
2001
Die Hard
Alien

 

[HiResDes]

What's noteworthy is how subtle the characterization and drama is presented, along with effortless world building, danger, stakes, and emotion is given to the audience, sometimes with absolutely no words.

I don't agree. I think a lot of people supplant this richness of characterization due to the incredible visuals and set world building, not none of that is directly tied to a well realized plot or individual performance.

 

[Monocle]

What's noteworthy is how subtle the characterization and drama is presented, along with effortless world building, danger, stakes, and emotion is given to the audience, sometimes with absolutely no words.

Yeah, the key is definitely in the presentation. How subtly and effectively the action and character elements are combined. That's sort of what I was trying to get at in my latest post in that other thread.

 

[Cream]

I don't agree. I think a lot of people supplant this richness of characterization due to the incredible visuals and set world building, not none of that is directly tied to a well realized plot or individual performance.

I don't think this is a thing you can "disagree" with. It's just a thing that is. There is a lot of subtle characterization and intended meaning behind things that you can catch on repeat viewings and if you pay close enough attention.

 

[HiResDes]

I don't think this is a thing you can "disagree" with. It's just a thing that is. There is a lot of subtle characterization and intended meaning behind things that you can catch on repeat viewings and if you pay close enough attention.

I'm not saying it isn't there, but in the long storied history of film what you deem as richness I see as somewhat shallow. It has nuance, but it's not particularly noteworthy.

 

[Cream]

I'm not saying it isn't there, but in the long storied history of film what you deem as richness I see as somewhat shallow. It has nuance, but it's not particularly noteworthy.

It is for action movies. That's the entire point.

 

[HiResDes]

It is for action movies. That's the entire point.

Yeah I realize that. I mean just compare characterization depth to something like Leon: The Professional, Seven Samurai, Alien, Die Hard, or hell even Lethal Weapon.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Pulp Fiction pretty much elevated modern cinema in the '90s. A lot of the trends we've seen in movies since were popularized there.

 

[Monocle]

Yeah I realize that. I mean just compare characterization depth to something like Leon: The Professional, Seven Samurai, Alien, Die Hard, or hell even Lethal Weapon.

Furiosa alone rivals any of the characters in those films.

 

[Currygan]

sheesh, it's freaking hard. I feel like I'm leaving out too many masterpieces


American Action: Die Hard
modern American action: Face/off tied with Bourne Supremacy
Hong Kong Action: The Killer
Drama: The Lost Weekend
Mystery: Witness for Prosecution, Rear Window
Horror: The Exorcist, Freaks
Action drama: Heat
Biographical/adaptation: All the President's Men
War: Paths of Glory, FMJ
Noir: Double Indemnity
Comedy: Dr Strangelove
Historical: Joan D'Arc
Fantasy: Excalibur
Neorealism: Umberto D.
Action comedy: Hot Fuzz
Adventure: Raiders of the Lost Ark
modern take on an ancient franchise: Game of Shadows
Superhero: Spiderman 2

 

[HiResDes]

Furiosa alone rivals any of the characters in those films.

She has all the potential but is let down by a mindless plot.

 

[Cream]

She has all the potential but is let down by a mindless plot.

"Mindless plot"

What does that even mean?

 

[Messofanego]

For horror, from this year It Follows. Not many horror movies go for unrelenting dread with little jump scares, likeable characyers, and an ambiguous tone through to the very end. Also, amazing cinematography and music.

 

[Monocle]

She has all the potential but is let down by a mindless plot.

All I can suggest is that you watch the movie again more closely. Maybe check out that thread where that guy was wondering why Fury Road is "considered" good. There are a lot of bad posts (some by me, probably), but a few that explain the film really well.

 

[Moppeh]

And additionally, what qualities do you think movies for certain genres might need to have to do it again, and stop them from becoming stale?

Innovation. Genre is the key means of how we identify films. I was reading "The New Wave" by Monaco, and he considers genre as an important part in the equation for defining and understanding a film (said equation is basically genre+auteur=film). We need auteurs who are prepared to innovate and alter the state of our genres. The easiest way they can alter a genre is by applying creative differences to how their film uses cinematic elements compared to the standards of the genre, like how 2001 used mise en scene, cinematography, and music in a fashion unique to sci-fi from the period.

That's one thing you don't really get from Hollywood. It is a lot easier and a better way to guarantee profits if you can stick to a formula (especially considering how franchise focused things are). So obviously the more "Hollywoody" genres tend to suffer, like action or comedy films. Though as it has been pointed out, you still can get outstanding and unique genre films out of Hollywood, like Mad Max.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Military/War: The Longest Day


Flimed in B&W when that been abandoned and the size of scenes with the multiple points of view woven together. Changed what war movies could be.

 

[Erevador]

Lord of the Rings more or less invented fantasy cinema as a serious art form.

Nothing has come close since.

 

[HiResDes]

For horror, from this year It Follows. Not many horror movies go for unrelenting dread with little jump scares, likeable characyers, and an ambiguous tone through to the very end. Also, amazing cinematography and music.

Disagree with this more than Mad Max. What an awful film that downspirals after the first 30 minutes.

 

[FloatOn]

The Raid and The Raid 2 pretty much invalidate any other martial arts movie.

 

[Jito]

People that say that about Mad Max have been only been watching Action movies over the past decade and should have their opinions discounted.

Seeing as he's talking about elevating the genre, not films, how is he wrong to suggest Mad Max is a step forward for the action genre?

 

[DrGonzo615]

Jesus, GAF as such a hard on for Mad Max. Yes, its a great film but people need to chill.

 

[HiResDes]

Seeing as he's talking about elevating the genre, not films, how is he wrong to suggest Mad Max is a step forward for the action genre?

Suggesting that a modern film has elevated an entire genre brings the history of films within that said genre into the fray.

 

[Monocle]

For horror, from this year It Follows. Not many horror movies go for unrelenting dread with little jump scares, likeable characyers, and an ambiguous tone through to the very end. Also, amazing cinematography and music.

I feel like It Follows is a good example of the opposite. A movie with enormous potential that's mostly successful until it's dragged down by inconsistent internal logic (mainly relating to how the creature works), some questionable choices by the characters, and an ending that merely fizzles out instead of leaving the audience with an interesting question or a lasting impression.

I still loved that movie though. One of my favorites of this year. I just wish it was as good as it could have been.