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[ParityBit]

You didn't answer the question.

Because it is irrelevant. The balls were of normal pressure so he could have said "I fucking stick a pin in the ball and let all the air out! I am Deflator man"

How about you answer mine? Oh ... I just did!

Okay, he is one .... in the 10K emails and texts that they got from Brady and the rest of the Team, including Belichick's phone .... how many times was the word "Deflate" or "Deflator" mentioned?


I will give you time, go read the report since I know you did not

 

[KHarvey16]

But how do you turn a blind eye to the patriots response?

For example, the pats explaining mcnallys referring to himself as the deflator by saying he was trying to lose weight...

EDIT: im not saying that is enough to punish brady. Its not.

The whole thing is completely irrelevant if the balls, as measured, weren't intentionally deflated. It's like saying someone acted like they may have murdered someone but there's no body and no one missing.

 

[TheXfactor]

Wait, you guys know he cheated, and are happy he is not recurring punishment for cheating? Literally last month you were happy as hell his suspension was happening, what's going on? Lol

 

[not psycho]

But how do you turn a blind eye to the patriots response?

For example, the pats explaining mcnallys referring to himself as the deflator by saying he was trying to lose weight...

Wrong question. What you should be asking is why should we assume that the word "deflator" must have meant "deflating footballs below the league minimum"? For example:

Does this message mean "deflate some footballs below the league minimum and then give somebody that jacket"?

It looks more likely that "deflate" is used here to indicate losing weight, because the guy's coat makes him look fat. If you have a better interpretation, what is it? The truth is we don't know because these are text messages between friends with inside jokes.

More importantly, the evidence shows they were probably not deflated below the league minimum, and if they were it was by such a tiny amount it would make no difference.

 

[kingkitty]

this is like the ending of No Country for Old Men

 

[forgeforsaken]

But how do you turn a blind eye to the patriots response?

For example, the pats explaining mcnallys referring to himself as the deflator by saying he was trying to lose weight...

EDIT: im not saying that is enough to punish brady. Its not.

Keep in mind that txt was from May before the season, and there are txts from a home game during the season where McNally and Jastremski are talking about how they tested the balls post game and the refs inflated them to 16 psi, which is far more over inflated than the Pats are even accused of deflating. So a question should be asked is, if they were conspiring this back in May, why hadn't they done this for the home game against the Jets?

 

[KHarvey16]

Wait, you guys know he cheated, and are happy he is not recurring punishment for cheating? Literally last month you were happy as hell his suspension was happening, what's going on? Lol

Know he cheated? What are you talking about? There's no evidence he cheated, and in fact if you accept the evidence that was gathered you have to conclude it points in the direction of cheating being impossible.

 

[Florist]

The whole thing is completely irrelevant if the balls, as measured, weren't intentionally deflated. It's like saying someone acted like they may have murdered someone but there's no body and no one missing.

No its like finding a body and not knowing if it died if natural causes or foul play. Then having the prime suspect spew some ridiculous BS excuse. It doesnt prove guilt, but it looks really bad

 

[Clearos]

If Goodell got schwifty I would forgive him.

 

[infiniteloop]

is there a detailed write up on the whole thing somewhere?

 

[ParityBit]

Know he cheated? What are you talking about? There's no evidence he cheated, and in fact if you accept the evidence that was gathered you have to conclude it points in the direction of cheating being impossible.

No, not impossible. They could have stuck a pin into the ball to release 0.1 - 0.3 PSI from 4 footballs.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

This is doing wonders for the league. Brady rehearing 23 set for April 2034.

 

[Megalosaro]

No its like finding a body and not knowing if it died if natural causes or foul play. Then having the prime suspect spew some ridiculous BS excuse. It doesnt prove guilt, but it looks really bad

Actually they don't know if there is a body. The measurements contradict each other

 

[ParityBit]

No its like finding a body and not knowing if it died if natural causes or foul play. Then having the prime suspect spew some ridiculous BS excuse. It doesnt prove guilt, but it looks really bad

Good analogy! But add in the cops tampered with evidence, the lead investigator became the prosecutor and the "smoking man" edited the whole report before the court case and disappeared.

 

[Quotient]

Keep in mind that txt was from May before the season, and there are txts from a home game during the season where McNally and Jastremski are talking about how they tested the balls post game and the refs inflated them to 16 psi, which is far more over inflated than the Pats are even accused of deflating. So a question should be asked is, if they were conspiring this back in May, why hadn't they done this for the home game against the Jets?

Continuing that line of thinking It is also an odd scheme to only deflate footballs during home games.

 

[TheFatOne]

I've seen this point brought up a few times in some other places, but I'll post it here in case anyone brings this up. Some people including Bod Ley keep bringing up the point that why did the Pats suspend the two guys and have not reinstanted them. Adam Schefter destroys Bob and answers the question

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 3h3 hours ago
NFL would have to provide permission for Patriots to reinstate suspended employees John Jastremski and Jim McNally.

 

[Florist]

Good analogy! But add in the cops tampered with evidence, the lead investigator became the prosecutor and the "smoking man" edited the whole report before the court case and disappeared.

Oh its a clusterfuck alright. The nfl is in no way innocent in this either.

 

[KHarvey16]

No its like finding a body and not knowing if it died if natural causes or foul play. Then having the prime suspect spew some ridiculous BS excuse. It doesnt prove guilt, but it looks really bad

No ability to find intentional deflation means there is no body.

No, not impossible. They could have stuck a pin into the ball to release 0.1 - 0.3 PSI from 4 footballs.

And then only if we accept the flawed analysis in the Wells Report.

 

[DrForester]

Isnt that the question everyone wants answered?

It has been answered. The answer the is no.

The problem is way too many people don't care.

 

[ParityBit]

It has been answered. The answer the is no.

The problem is way too many people don't care.

People agree with Global Warming, but not the Ideal Gas Law

 

[Quotient]

I've seen this point brought up a few times in some other places, but I'll post it here in case anyone brings this up. Some people including Bod Ley keep bringing up the point that why did the Pats suspend the two guys and have not reinstanted them. Adam Schefter destroys Bob and answers the question

I thought this was obvious as it was in the NFL statement:

Patriots owner Robert Kraft advised Commissioner Roger Goodell last week that Patriots employees John Jastremski and James McNally have been indefinitely suspended without pay by the club, effective on May 6th. Neither of these individuals may be reinstated without the prior approval of NFL Executive Vice President of Football Operations Troy Vincent.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000492190/article/nfl-releases-statement-on-patriots-violations

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

I've seen this point brought up a few times in some other places, but I'll post it here in case anyone brings this up. Some people including Bod Ley keep bringing up the point that why did the Pats suspend the two guys and have not reinstanted them. Adam Schefter destroys Bob and answers the question

Bob Ley LOL

 

[backflip10019]

Naked, Dripping Wet Tom Brady Thrilled By Judge’s Decision To Overturn Suspension, Imagines Judge

NEW YORK—Celebrating his legal victory as fresh steam swirled around his bare body, a naked, dripping wet Tom Brady was absolutely thrilled with the decision to overturn his four-game suspension, the imagination of federal judge Richard Berman confirmed Thursday.

 

[AgeEighty]

No its like finding a body and not knowing if it died if natural causes or foul play. Then having the prime suspect spew some ridiculous BS excuse. It doesnt prove guilt, but it looks really bad

But there is no body here.

There was ONE ball that was significantly under the league minimum. The rest were under only slightly, exactly as would be expected of balls that had been inflated to a little over the minimum and then left in the cold.

There's also no credible time when the balls could have been intentionally deflated after the first inspection during pregame. The Wells report points to when one of the staff brought the balls into a restroom for roughly one minute and leans on the idea that it's technically possible for that guy to have deflated a dozen footballs in that bag in that short minute... but well, do you think you could physically do that, to the exacting standards your quarterback would demand?

There's no body, no deflation.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

 

[timetokill]

It's a shame, and will send a terrible message to the kids. Everyone knows they cheated and yet they get away with it scot-free once again.

Oh, well. It's not like today's NFL is a paragon of anything anyway.

 

[AgeEighty]

It's a shame, and will send a terrible message to the kids. Everyone knows they cheated and yet they get away with it scot-free once again.

Oh, well.

Only if by "everyone" you mean "people who haven't really been paying attention to any of the reports about the matter".

 

[Florist]

No ability to find intentional deflation means there is no body.



And then only if we accept the flawed analysis in the Wells Report.

Wrong. In this analogy, the body is the deflated ball.

 

[Sub_Level]

OUT FUCKING PLAYED

 

[timetokill]

Only if by "everyone" you mean "people who haven't really been paying attention to any of the reports about the matter".

I have been, and it's pretty clear, as much as Brady and co. want to obfuscate.

Anyway this decision isn't about Brady's guilt in the first place.

 

[KHarvey16]

Wrong. In this analogy, the body is the deflated ball.

No, it would have to be shown to be intentionally deflated. Deflating naturally is obviously not against the rules.

I have been, and it's pretty clear, as much as Brady and co. want to obfuscate.

Anyway this decision isn't about Brady's guilt in the first place.

The judge clearly didn't buy the Wells Report. Keep clinging to it though!

 

[not psycho]

It's a shame, and will send a terrible message to the kids. Everyone knows they cheated and yet they get away with it scot-free once again.

Agreed. Even though they lost this case, the NFL got away with what they did scot-free. The money is nothing to them, so they were able to capitalize on false reports to smear someone, and "cheat" the CBA rules, with no real harm done to them. It won't affect ratings or attendance, so they don't care.

If only to send a positive message to kids, Goodell should be fired.

 

[Florist]

No, it would have to be shown to be intentionally deflated. Deflating naturally is obviously not against the rules.

Dying natutally doesnt mean youve been murdered. It still means youre dead though.

Finding an underinflated ball doesnt mean it was intentially deflated. It still means its underinflated though.

I forget how we started arguing about bodies lol

 

[timetokill]

Agreed. Even though they lost this case, the NFL got away with what they did scot-free. The money is nothing to them, so they were able to capitalize on false reports to smear someone, and "cheat" the CBA rules, with no real harm done to them. It won't affect ratings or attendance, so they don't care.

If only to send a positive message to kids, Goodell should be fired.

:lol if you think the NFL got away scot-free, this is terrible for the image of the league, and it's not like the NFL has exactly had any shining moments lately.

Anyway, Goodell's a piece of shit too, I'd be happy to see him go.

 

[injurai]

the money was right

 

[KHarvey16]

Dying natutally doesnt mean youve been murdered. It still means youre dead though.

Finding an underinflated ball doesnt mean it was intentially deflated. It still means its underinflated though.

I forget how we started arguing about bodies lol

The body is the intentionally deflated ball. No possession or evidence of intentionally deflated balls means no dead body. No possession or evidence of dead body, suspicious behavior interpreted by some as evidence of being a murderer is irrelevant.

 

[ParityBit]

I have been, and it's pretty clear, as much as Brady and co. want to obfuscate.

Anyway this decision isn't about Brady's guilt in the first place.

The thing kids will learn is that if your innocent, bring it to court because you can win.

 

[The Albatross]

I've seen this point brought up a few times in some other places, but I'll post it here in case anyone brings this up. Some people including Bod Ley keep bringing up the point that why did the Pats suspend the two guys and have not reinstanted them. Adam Schefter destroys Bob and answers the question

DAMN shits gettin heated on there

It's a shame, and will send a terrible message to the kids. Everyone knows they cheated and yet they get away with it scot-free once again.

Oh, well. It's not like today's NFL is a paragon of anything anyway.

In the grand scheme of things that kids are "learning" from NFL players, I think that this is probably the most mundane. "Hey kids, legal lesson of the day, in court, evidence is required to punish somebody." Pretty terrible lesson for kids to learn, agreed.

 

[timetokill]

The thing kids will learn is that if your innocent, bring it to court because you can win.

That would be a weird takeaway from a decision that doesn't argue that Brady is innocent. Are you saying kids are stupid or something?

 

[HariKari]

How does Goodell still have a job at this point? He's just bad for the brand.

 

[entremet]

How does Goodell still have a job at this point? He's just bad for the brand.

He makes the owners millions and he destroyed the player's union in the last CBA.

 

[Liquidsnake]

I don't like the rule changes that he brought tot he game.

 

[DasPenguin]

It's a shame, and will send a terrible message to the kids. Everyone knows they cheated and yet they get away with it scot-free once again.

Oh, well. It's not like today's NFL is a paragon of anything anyway.

Based on what, exactly? Your hopes and dreams? Here's a small recap for you:

NFL fed false information to the press pre- Super Bowl and forced the Patriots to go in front of the media and discuss a 2psi drop on ball pressure. Is it a wonder that they looked so shocked about that? That was the only discussion for the two weeks leading up to the Super Bowl. Why would NFL do such a thing to one of the better teams out there and to a guy with a clean image and zero off the field issues? Sounds like great marketing and PR for the league, not. And of course the drop wasn't even close to being 2psi.

Eventually the 3 million dollar(!!) investigation comes to a close, and the investigator and his solid argument goes like this: "Well you know we didn't really find any evidence about tampering and we are not sure how the balls were measured but one guy went to the toilet and maybe possibly Brady knew something about something". Not to mention that all the hopes and dreams of the NFL argument is based on the text message sent 6 months earlier, which discusses an over-inflated ball (16psi) at Jets home game. Equipment manager was upset at Brady and wanted to overinflate the ball even more. Yeah, what a "deflator" that guy was.

When the Wells report science on ball psi gets laughed at by every independent source, Goodell moves the goal posts and upholds the suspension because Brady "didn't cooperate". Unfortunately for him, Wells told Brady that not giving up his personal phone would not lead to any punishment. This came out in court as well, as did the fact the NFL had never heard about the ideal gas law.

So you have no evidence on ball tampering, you tell the QB that he won't get punished for not handing out his phone, yet you somehow give the biggest fine in league history and leak damaging information to the press during the whole time while the investigation is ongoing.

And now Goodell wants to appeal. Good luck with that, sounds like a solid game plan.

 

[not psycho]

:lol if you think the NFL got away scot-free, this is terrible for the image of the league, and it's not like the NFL has exactly had any shining moments lately.

Will it affect ratings and attendance though?

Granted, it sends a good message that the suspension was lifted. The league was arguing for the right to fundamental unfairness, and success in that argument would have sent a terrible message about the world and the legal system particularly.

But it still sends a bad message that Goodell has his job. He was caught lying, caught using faked reports, and used these things to smear another person, something which even this decision will not erase in the eyes of many. Yet he is still commissioner of the league.

 

[Futureman]

is there any chance still, at all, that Brady could see some jail time?

 

[ParityBit]

That would be a weird takeaway from a decision that doesn't argue that Brady is innocent. Are you saying kids are stupid or something?

Why stupid? He is innocent, he fought that his punishment should be vacated because the process was rigged. The Judge agreed, the process was rigged, Brady does not serve the suspension.

Now if kids choose not to believe math and science, then I think that is a fault of their parents and teaching. But who am I to judge?

 

[Florist]

The body is the intentionally deflated ball. No possession or evidence of intentionally deflated balls means no dead body. No possession or evidence of dead body, suspicious behavior interpreted by some as evidence of being a murderer is irrelevant.

Nope. This whole thing is about whether or not the balls were intentionally deflated to begin with. You cant look at an underinflated ball and know it was intentially deflated, just like you cant simply look at a dead person and know they weren intentially killed.

The patriots suspiscious behavior (in this case, their unbelievable explanatio) is quite relevant. Again, it proves nothing, but it shouldnt be looked at as nothing.

 

[The Albatross]

Guys give up on his fucking analogy it makes no goddam sense at all but just another vehicle to go on and on in this sense debate

 

[Florist]

is there any chance still, at all, that Brady could see some jail time?

Lol

 

[chadskin]

is there any chance still, at all, that Brady could see some jail time?

Here's to hoping.