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[Madness]

Are they really hated by all that many? Plenty of people complain about destiny, but there seems to be quite a bit of hype and good vibes from the community that actually plays the game lately.

Not really hated, but that Bungie of old is gone. Maybe it's just the natural evolution of the industry. They're not 25 guys in Chicago or 50 people on Kirkland anymore. I mean a lot of key people who worked on past Halo games and were part of that older Bungie community are gone. Brian Jarrard, Joseph Staten, Marcus Lehto, Frank O'Connor, Marty O'Donnell, Jaime Griesemer, John Howard, Joe Tung and so many more that I'm currently forgetting.

You can just feel Activision permeate every part of the company now. They sit on the board etc. They control the narrative. Destiny was a very sterile game, devoid of easter eggs like in the past. They hardly do the ViDocs they did, Bungie Day doesn't mean as much as stuff like Bungie Vs the world, free steaks, burn bright burn blue etc.

 

[10k]

Good. Bungie was trying to shaft him.

 

[7DollarHagane]

What's really interesting is the talk of retooling the game in 2013.

I wonder how much content was "retooled" or lost at this point and held for future expansions?

 

[Nanashrew]

May just be a GAF/Gamer Clique thing, most people I know who are way into Destiny don't care about it's development beyond what directly affects their character. There has definitely been a huge backlash here though.

Yep. My cousin knows nothing about this stuff, she just finds Destiny fun and that's all she cares about.

 

[SnakeEyes]

eh, it wasn't as much of a scoop as i expected, but there's still some solid information in there.

i don't think it says anything we didn't expect though - Activision clearly put their hands in the pot and influenced the game, which is something Bungie explicitly stated would not happen when they announced that they signed a 10 year contract with them.

It's incredibly disheartening to see the effects of that on the other end.

I hear that. I wonder how many Destiny players secretly hoped for the best, but prepared for the worst.

I know I did...

 

[The Flash]

How many years did Bungie sign on with Activision for?

 

[Twilight Gap]

Good. Bungie was trying to shaft him.

It looks more to me like the higher ups at Bungie were trying to keep Activision happy and Marty didn't like what they were doing to make that happen.

 

[SmartWaffles]

Pete Parsons, chief operating officer of Bungie, asked O’Donnell to create all of the music for the entire Destiny franchise at the same time, rather than writing the themes one at a time for each of the game installments.

This move is pretty weird...

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Music of the Spheres is public domain now??

I'd like to know this.

This also confirms Destinys story was fucked-

While Destiny was planned for a September 2013 release, the story was substantially revised in August 2013. That pushed the release date back to March 2014. O’Donnell returned to work after a vacation, but the audio team and his supervisor did not consider him to be fully engaged in his work. The release date of the game, meanwhile, pushed back to September 2014. Bungie set in motion a process to terminate O’Donnell.

 

[Steverulez]

How many years did Bungie sign on with Activision for?

10 years

 

[Syril]

So with all this legal stuff out of the way Marty can go back to work on Destiny, right? Right? :'(

Well according to that he already composed all the music for the entire series.

 

[Madness]

How many years did Bungie sign on with Activision for?

The older leaked contract was for 3 main games, big expansions in between games, was almost ten years. It's crazy because it's the same thing they supposedly wanted to get away from Microsoft for. Not wanting to make Halo for another ten years etc.

 

[Steverulez]

The older leaked contract was for 3 main games, big expansions in between games, was almost ten years. It's crazy because it's the same thing they supposedly wanted to get away from Microsoft for. Not wanting to make Halo for another ten years etc.

They also wanted to own their own IP which they do for Destiny, not that it seems to stop their publisher doing what suits them

 

[StUnNeR H2K]

Glad Marty won. Really sketchy deal that was going on... Wonder how Bungie feels about it's deal with Activision now. Microsoft may not have been that bad after all...

 

[MrDaravon]

Glad Marty won. Really sketchy deal that was going on... Wonder how Bungie feels about it's deal with Activision now. Microsoft may not have been that bad after all...

To this day I still wonder why MS turned Destiny down, which they presumably did since IIRC they still had/have first right of refusal on their next project because of the agreement when they split. Unless there's more bad blood there than I realize it would have seemed a no brainer to take this as a MS exclusive, I know I'd be playing games on a X1 instead of a PS4 right now if that had been the case.

 

[Aselith]

It looks more to me like the higher ups at Bungie were trying to keep Activision happy and Marty didn't like what they were doing to make that happen.

That could very well be but they had to the choice of letting him go and compensating him fairly and trying to shaft him and they chose...


poorly.

 

[SnakeEyes]

During E3 2013 preparations, Bungie was getting ready to demo the game for the first time before a huge audience at the Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3), the biggest U.S. video game show. Activision was going to play the game music with a trailer, but shortly before E3, Activision took over the trailer work and supplied its own music, rather than the Music of the Spheres segments.

And this is how we invariably end up with shitty Led Zeppelin music in the latest TTK trailer... ~_~

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Cop that.

So Bungie went from working on Halo for a decade under a hands off Microsoft, to working on Destiny for a decade under a meddling Activision. Good move.

 

[The Flash]

10 years

The older leaked contract was for 3 main games, big expansions in between games, was almost ten years. It's crazy because it's the same thing they supposedly wanted to get away from Microsoft for. Not wanting to make Halo for another ten years etc.

lol

 

[Outtrigger888]

Fuck bungie and activision. Glad Marty won!

Seriously bungie wtf happend to you

 

[Twilight Gap]

Fuck bungie and activision. Glad Marty won!

Seriously bungie wtf happend to you

Activision, evidently.

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

Well, this certainly makes you think that the working conditions with MS were a hell of a lot better than with Activision. Makes me sad because Blizzard is one of my fav game companies.

 

[Blueblur1]

A couple messed up things happened. To begin with, Marty shouldn't have been threatening anyone over the trailer. He did go overboard. And it seems like he was still upset throughout the rest of his employment. Activision did whatever they wanted and that's not cool. And of course Bungie management, worried about the contract and how they need it to complete Destiny and probably keep most of their employees employed, would of course err on the side of caution. What I can't defend them for is trying to terminate Marty and how they went out of their way to screw him out of rights and shares (which is the most ridiculous part of the whole thing, IMO).

Its just one big mess.

 

[watership]

Cop that.

So Bungie went from working on Halo for a decade under a hands off Microsoft, to working on Destiny for a decade under a meddling Activision. Good move.

I think the issue they had with MS was they couldn't do anything but Halo, and they would never own anything. So they got what they wanted, their own game, that they own. However they're still under some sway from Activision. We will see if Bungie made the right decision in the long run.

 

[Miracle]

It really puts into perspective how people thought microsoft would be problematic for them, but activision really has transformed the company.

No matter what we think of Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo, nobody can transform a developer we know and love to a villain like Activision and EA can apparently (Bioware and now Bungie). Although I still love Bioware. :-/

Why is this Batman quote becoming more and more true? "You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain"

 

[ShockingAlberto]

O’Donnell reacted angrily and believed Activision had overstepped its proper role by assuming artistic control of the trailer music. Ryan, the CEO of Bungie, and management shared his concern and filed a “veto” letter with Activision, which overruled the objection. During E3, O’Donnell tweeted that Activision, not Bungie, had composed the trailer music. He also threatened Bungie employees in an attempt to keep the trailer from being posted online, and interrupted press briefings.

This part definitely isn't a good look for O'Donnell.

 

[Madness]

I still remember this when Marty was fired. It's crazy because they both went and founded Highwire Games together, and now Vic Deleon left 343 to join as well.

 

[R0ckman]

Pretty much no one looks good here. Marty definitely comes out looking the best for sure though.

Don't agree, there was clearly no other option in behavior for him if he was passionate about Bungie and his work.

 

[jediyoshi]

Are the court documents themselves out in the wild?

 

[Skeletron]

Will we ever get to hear Music of the Spheres?

 

[Colonel Nasty]

Geez, how bad was Microsoft that Bungie decided Activision was a better option?

 

[Steverulez]

Twitter

 

[TheYanger]

Geez, how bad was Microsoft that Bungie decided Activision was a better option?

Seriously?

 

[GhaleonEB]

While Destiny was planned for a September 2013 release, the story was substantially revised in August 2013. That pushed the release date back to March 2014. O’Donnell returned to work after a vacation, but the audio team and his supervisor did not consider him to be fully engaged in his work. The release date of the game, meanwhile, pushed back to September 2014. Bungie set in motion a process to terminate O’Donnell.

Meanwhile, O’Donnell argued that the audio work could not be completed until the game was in a bug-free, playable state. He felt the treatment was unfair but said he would continue to work. Members of the team complained that O’Donnell wasn’t contributing as expected, and his presence was frustrating the completion of the audio work. Ryan proposed to the Bungie board that O’Donnell be terminated.

IIRC, Marty's development process for the Halo games was to work on themes during development, and then compose the final tracks and interactive components after the game was essentially done and in final testing/bug squashing mode. I recall from the updates from the Halo games that the music was one of the very last things to get done.

Given all the complexities with Destiny, it sounds like they wanted the music to come online earlier, probably wanting to lock down as much of the game as possible given how much it was in flux, and that conflicted with how Marty preferred to work. So I wonder if Marty was just doing his usual work flow, or whether he was really not pulling his weight as the staff and supervisor said. That was ostensibly the end reason for his firing (the kerfuffle over the E3 trailer seemed to put him on thin ice).

Really unfortunate affair all around, but it seems to me that the outcome was fair. (Bungie's office politics sound really ugly from this, which I did not expect.)

Geez, how bad was Microsoft that Bungie decided Activision was a better option?

Worth noting that Activision does not own Bungie, or Destiny; Microsoft owned them and thus Halo. I imagine Bungie is happy about that.

 

[diaspora]

he noted that Bungie presented no evidence of permanent damage to the Bungie-Activision relationships, the audio team, or ultimate game sales.

lol so why even accuse him of doing that?

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

I think the issue they had with MS was they couldn't do anything but Halo, and they would never own anything. So they got what they wanted, their own game, that they own. However they're still under some sway from Activision. The largest issue is if Bungie made the right decision in the long run.

Given how easily and swiftly studios are closed down these days and how hard keeping a job in this industry can be, having a VERY stable secure job as the Halo studio isn't exactly the worst thing on earth.

 

[Jeremy]

Well, this certainly makes you think that the working conditions with MS were a hell of a lot better than with Activision. Makes me sad because Blizzard is one of my fav game companies.

From experience, the grass is so rarely greener.

 

[JeffZero]

What a shame how bungie has transformed under activision. What used to be my favorite game developer is now just trash. And the game that was the successor to halo is a huge disappointment.

I can't stand the MMO grinding and repeating content design of the game.

I've never played it and I never will. It sounds like it sacrificed everything I love in favor of everything I detest. Sadly, this is what sells.

 

[StUnNeR H2K]

To this day I still wonder why MS turned Destiny down, which they presumably did since IIRC they still had/have first right of refusal on their next project because of the agreement when they split. Unless there's more bad blood there than I realize it would have seemed a no brainer to take this as a MS exclusive, I know I'd be playing games on a X1 instead of a PS4 right now if that had been the case.

I'm guessing that Microsoft saw Destiny as a sci-fi shooter, like Halo, and didn't feel the need to have two first party sci-fi first person shooters. Sorta seems understandable, but Destiny is nothing like Halo since its a semi-open world, cooperative aspect game.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

At least in the initial stages in not really seeing much Bungie did that was bad. Apparently they even went to bat for Marty against Activision when Activision tried to take his music out of the trailer.

Then everything goes to shit and everyone starts getting combative.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Given how easily and swiftly studios are closed down these days and how hard keeping a job in this industry can be, having a VERY stable secure job as the Halo studio isn't exactly the worst thing on earth.

Creatively, it's not the greatest thing either.

This part definitely isn't a good look for O'Donnell.

Well it's definitely unprofessional but I can't say I blame him. He probably dug his own grave at that point.

 

[ToyMachine228]

Whether you are on moral high ground or not, if you're divisive to your team, you're a problem. It sounds like Marty was causing hundreds of people stress and literally trying to hold Destiny and the company hostage to uphold his beliefs. And hey, his beliefs may be great but if you're acting like that, you're a problem and you need to be dealt with. Bungie did just that and moved forward one way or another.

I will also say that Marty's negative and demeaning political tweets are/were extremely annoying and arrogant. I could see him acting like a prima dona within Bungie, easily.

He makes great music. I hope his new endeavor works out. I just hope he sticks to that and keeps a low profile.

 

[rootbeerafloat]

Bungie =(

 

[R0ckman]

So basically, the relationship is that when Activision "suggests" something stupid or moronic with the game and the heads of Bungie rightfully show resistance, Activision responds with: "Nuh uh uh uh, in violation of the contract! *trollface*"?

 

[Frog-fu]

Good for Marty.

Fuck Bungie and fuck Destiny. It's a garbage game graced by better music than it deserves.

Geez, how bad was Microsoft that Bungie decided Activision was a better option?

There is little to suggest MS were bad in the first place. Bungie were given multiple opportunities to branch out and launch new IP. They kept fucking it up and having to cancelsaid new IPs. It's probably why MS turned down Destiny after they left, which I suspect was due to a sense of creative limitations under a big corporation that prioritised protecting established IP.

 

[legacyzero]

<3 Marty

 

[Mrbob]

I don't know if "epic" is the term I'd use for legal battles, no matter the outcome or what it's over.

I can't imagine Bungie not appealing this, however.

According to the article Bungie's appeal attempt got denied. Happy for this outcome.

Board of directors are the worst of the worst for any company. Those shares were his since he didn't voluntarily leave, and never should have been stripped away in the first place. True justice prevailed with the arbitrator ruling for Marty.

 

[Briarios]

Whether you are on moral high ground or not, if you're divisive to your team, you're a problem. It sounds like Marty was causing hundreds of people stress and literally trying to hold Destiny and the company hostage to uphold his beliefs. And hey, his beliefs may be great but if you're acting like that, you're a problem and you need to be dealt with. Bungie did just that and moved forward one way or another.

I will also say that Marty's negative and demeaning political tweets are/were extremely annoying and arrogant. I could see him acting like a prima dona within Bungie, easily.

He makes great music. I hope his new endeavor works out. I just hope he sticks to that and keeps a low profile.

I think you should take notice of this: The arbitrator heard oral arguments from both sides last summer and then issued the following findings of fact.

The arbitrator found that O’Donnell demonstrated substantial likelihood of proving that he was one of seven founders of Bungie (which originally had the name Arete Seven LLC) and that the company gave him 1.27 million shares of class B shares in October 2007.

If I was one of the founders and one of the major driving influences and I was being treated like shit, you can bet I wouldn't take it laying down. He helped start and create the company -- it's hard not to get upset when you see your creations being driven into mediocrity. A real artist isn't going to remain silent for that.

 

[BokehKing]

What a shame how bungie has transformed under activision. What used to be my favorite game developer is now just trash. And the game that was the successor to halo is a huge disappointment.

I can't stand the MMO grinding and repeating content design of the game.

Lol... Come on man

 

[plagiarize]

Whether you are on moral high ground or not, if you're divisive to your team, you're a problem. It sounds like Marty was causing hundreds of people stress and literally trying to hold Destiny and the company hostage to uphold his beliefs. And hey, his beliefs may be great but if you're acting like that, you're a problem and you need to be dealt with. Bungie did just that and moved forward one way or another.

I will also say that Marty's negative and demeaning political tweets are/were extremely annoying and arrogant. I could see him acting like a prima dona within Bungie, easily.

He makes great music. I hope his new endeavor works out. I just hope he sticks to that and keeps a low profile.

Well I don't know about all that, but certainly nothing in these court documents suggest he was terminated for no good reason, just that they totally fucked him over when they fired him and didn't give him stuff that by contract they clearly should have.

That's the main thrust of this story as I read it. That he was dismissed, was fine. How they went about it... was not.