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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

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These past few pages are so negative. What did everyone LIKE about the story?

I actually found Kid Mantis to be one of my favorite parts of the story. A super powerful psychic who gets fiddle'd by others because he's an innocent kid. They made Volgin coming back seem plausible. Mantis' story arc with crashing the plane when V woke up was really interesting (this is being talked about on the radio the second time V wakes up if you listen). He looks way cooler than than any other character sans Ponytail Snake. Him bonding with Eli was a nice touch. I loved how he took on the visual characteristics of the people he was channeling at the time.
 
So Mantis is a magical Deus ex Machina whose character is the most important in the game but never once explored, and all of these massive story beats are explained in one of a ton of tapes dumped on you in late-game, after the scenes which they would have made sense of.

Completely undefendable, honestly. Completely undefendable.

Basically. Mantis is the most powerful character in the game and they literally say that he has no real will or control and shouldn't be blamed for his crimes. Honestly I feel really bad for him in this because of it. Especially after noticing how he took on characteristics of the people using him ( the horn, R. Kelly mask, Eli's red shoulder thing).
 
You do know MGS isn't a documentary right? You can't use real world stuff as an argument against a franchise in which everything is Nanomachines, Wolbachia, Parasites, Hypnotherapy and eyeballs popping out all over the show. :)

Pretty sure he's talking about in popular fiction as a trope since we're talking as if psychics were not a totally bullshit thing.
 
I dug the concept of a virus that eradicates only people who speak a certain language.

That was inventive, then it gave people superpowers or something.
 
I absolutely hated Raiden's story in MGS2, and as it was my first MGS it had nothing to do with subverted expectations. That said, I still recognise why people like it, and it is a proper narrative the whole way through.

That's leagues ahead of what we get in MGSV, just streets ahead.

For me, it was the mix of a story (and two characters - Jack and Rose) that I couldn't stand plus a setting I didn't like plus gameplay I wasn't fond of and boss fights I disliked that made Big Shell a misery for me. One I would never have finished if I wasn't in college at the time, with tons of spare time and friends telling me how amazing it was.

As someone who played MGS1 and expected to play MGS2 the whole time as Solid Snake, the subverted expectations were a bit disheartening at first but the more I played the more I became intrigued by Raiden's personal story and the overarching story for the series. Also all the nods to the first game like Vulcan Raven, infinite ammo, etc etc were real cool.

I guess you make a good point about the bosses in MGS2. In hind sight they weren't very good. I did like the multiple Ray fight and Solidus sword duel, but most of the others were really stupid. All you do is hide from Fortune, Fatman was a pain in the ass, Vamp was incredibly dumb, the Harrier was aggravating....
 
These past few pages are so negative. What did everyone LIKE about the story?

I actually found Kid Mantis to be one of my favorite parts of the story. A super powerful psychic who gets fiddle'd by others because he's an innocent kid. They made Volgin coming back seem plausible. Mantis' story arc with crashing the plane when V woke up was really interesting (this is being talked about on the radio the second time V wakes up if you listen). He looks way cooler than than any other character sans Ponytail Snake. Him bonding with Eli was a nice touch. I loved how he took on the visual characteristics of the people he was channeling at the time.

i liked when skullface screamed whoooooooo

honestly really liked the skullface/codetalker tapes. that was some good shit
 
Question about the latest piece of cut content, the nuke ending.. People are theorizing that "if everyone dismantles their nukes" then the ending will appear, but this doesn't make sense to me... No FOB starts with a nuke, they have to be built in the first place.

I don't have a nuke to dismantle, because I didn't build one.
 
The first Solid Games are near perfect for me. After the first three, the series never maintained its charm or its "oh shit factor", with the exception of Big Boss's appearance in 4.
In those first three games, Kojima had a good team, but during 4, he was elevated to super star status,... And it's hurt the franchise honestly.

blame all the idiots that DEMANDED Kojima to be back for the 4th game, even going as far as sending death threats to him. Even then 4th had for the most part a coherent narrative, if overrelying on a deus ex machina to answer things that were designed to never have an answer, and a satisfying conclusion to the entire saga.

Peace Walker and MGSV were him putting the Metal Gear brand on other games he wanted to make.
 
Question about the latest piece of cut content, the nuke ending.. People are theorizing that "if everyone dismantles their nukes" then the ending will appear, but this doesn't make sense to me... No FOB starts with a nuke, they have to be built in the first place.

I don't have a nuke to dismantle, because I didn't build one.

I don't think anyone is actually theorizing that seriously, just a joke trigger.
 
Pretty sure he's talking about in popular fiction as a trope since we're talking as if psychics were not a totally bullshit thing.
I don't think he meant physics, I think he meant psychic abilities, something which is proven in the real world.
At any rate, my point still stands.
 
Question about the latest piece of cut content, the nuke ending.. People are theorizing that "if everyone dismantles their nukes" then the ending will appear, but this doesn't make sense to me... No FOB starts with a nuke, they have to be built in the first place.

I don't have a nuke to dismantle, because I didn't build one.

You dismantle other FOBs Nukes
But it seems cut content. The Chapter 3 title was Peace

Guys, week 2, I'm still super okay with the reveal.

I think knowing it before hand instead of getting punched in the gut helps a lot.
I bet this will be a MGS2 situation later on, where everyone will remember the game fondly
 
Question about the latest piece of cut content, the nuke ending.. People are theorizing that "if everyone dismantles their nukes" then the ending will appear, but this doesn't make sense to me... No FOB starts with a nuke, they have to be built in the first place.

I don't have a nuke to dismantle, because I didn't build one.

You don't understand. You start at zero nukes, but you need one, and when you have one and i have one that leads to one plus one. But to get to zero you have to have one. And then when one becomes zero, then zero becomes one. And zero.
 
Also, why is Chapter 2 called "Race"? Did I miss something in a Code Talker tape about copulation? Does he talk about parasites being behind Loving v. Virginia?

After the gene, meme, scene... whatever 4 was....

Wasn't this game supposed to be about race? Other than having more than 1 or 2 token Black characters, why is this game about race again?
 
So let's say Venom Snake dies anytime between 1984 and 1995, how does Big Boss explain his own death to everyone?
 
blame all the idiots that DEMANDED Kojima to be back for the 4th game, even going as far as sending death threats to him. Even then 4th had for the most part a coherent narrative, if overrelying on a deus ex machina to answer things that were designed to never have an answer, and a satisfying conclusion to the entire saga.

Peace Walker and MGSV were him putting the Metal Gear brand on other games he wanted to make.
i do, but that's because we thought we'd get the game designer of MS1, the innovator of MGS2, and the heart of MGS3.... We got a cranky old man instead who should have never returned to the series and whipped away all his great efforts
 
Guys, week 2, I'm still super okay with the reveal.
I think knowing it before hand instead of getting punched in the gut helps a lot.
I bet this will be a MGS2 situation later on, where everyone will remember the game fondly
I don't think it will be tbh, I feel like Kojima has gone too far with his bullshit and pissed the fans off quite a bit much than MGS2.

Especially because it was predicted by few fans nearly 2 years before it shipped. The rest and by far the majority absolutely and categorically stated they believed Kojima wouldn't do another MGS2 style twist. They were wrong and they were pissed. Couple that with the fact the story has been cut, Chapter 2 was Chapter 1 with 4 new missions, I don't think fans are gonna remember this fondly at all.


i was making note of the trope.

it is still really dumb though.
Ok, sorry, yeah it is dumb, don't get me wrong, I liked Mantis in this but it's just soured my opinion on Kojima as he couldn't maintain continuity to save his wife and children's lives.
 
So let's say Venom Snake dies anytime between 1984 and 1995, how does Big Boss explain his own death to everyone?

why would he have to? Anyone in his presence would see that he's a live. I don't think it would really matter honestly. The plot has bigger problems than this.
 
So let's say Venom Snake dies anytime between 1984 and 1995, how does Big Boss explain his own death to everyone?

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Not going to read any replies as im still pretty early but so far Ive loved the references they've pulled out.

-The Silent Hill homage area that has the PT radio news playing just before it. The fog, the radios, the body bags, the bloody curtains....its all there. AND WE"RE NEVER GUNNA SEE ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE TO IT FOR YEARS
-White Mamba having Lord of the Flies references peppered on him. A conch on his hip and a drawing of a pig (Piggy) on his back
 
Question about the latest piece of cut content, the nuke ending.. People are theorizing that "if everyone dismantles their nukes" then the ending will appear, but this doesn't make sense to me... No FOB starts with a nuke, they have to be built in the first place.

I don't have a nuke to dismantle, because I didn't build one.

People are saying that this ending is the 100% ending. I personally don't believe that.
 
These past few pages are so negative. What did everyone LIKE about the story?

I actually found Kid Mantis to be one of my favorite parts of the story. A super powerful psychic who gets fiddle'd by others because he's an innocent kid. They made Volgin coming back seem plausible. Mantis' story arc with crashing the plane when V woke up was really interesting (this is being talked about on the radio the second time V wakes up if you listen). He looks way cooler than than any other character sans Ponytail Snake. Him bonding with Eli was a nice touch. I loved how he took on the visual characteristics of the people he was channeling at the time.

The concept of eliminating certain languages is pretty intriguing. Sort of like a heavy-handed prototype version of the Patriot's nanomachine word censorship. It's too bad they ruined it by going full Resident Evil with the vocal chord parasites.

I thought the background behind XOF was fairly interesting. They should have played a larger role in the story missions. Same goes for Skullface.

Kid Mantis was alright. I can get behind the idea that he feeds on other people's anger, I just don't like the apparent power creep.
 
why would he have to? Anyone in his presence would see that he's a live. I don't think it would really matter honestly. The plot has bigger problems than this.

"But Boss, soldiers in the area have positively ID'd it as the leader of Diamond Dogs!"

"It's all Cipher!"
 
So other than Paz, did Venom possibly being comprised due to the shrapnel ever come up as more than a misdirect for the eventual twist of him being a doppelganger? I know it's touched on in ep51 but it felt like such a waste for such potential both in terms of visuals and the decisions he could have made.

Also, why is Chapter 2 called "Race"? Did I miss something in a Code Talker tape about copulation? Does he talk about parasites being behind Loving v. Virginia?

Considering the stuff in that nuclear warhead cutscene, I'm guessing it's more about the arms race. It's essentially post game, so most people still playing are continually upgrading their gear to better invade and defend against each other in FOB stuff, with nukes as a deterrent being a mechanic.
 
Wasn't this game supposed to be about race? Other than having more than 1 or 2 token Black characters, why is this game about race again?
I can only assume it was supposed to touch on the topic more deeply and like much of the game they simply left it in there even after pretty much everything having to do with it was cut out. I remember back when Kojima was talking about Project Ogre he said this
Kojima’s next game is currently titled Project Ogre. In it, Kojima said he will “deal quite a few issues that are pretty delicate and taboo.”

Kojima, who was recently at the Smithsonian’s Art of Video Games exhibit, added, “I’m not sure if they’ll end up being in the final product or not, but that’s something that I want to continue to strive for.”
And I'm almost certain he said in a pre-release interview at one point that the game would deal with the topic of race. But I'm not able to find it right now.
 
Here are my gripes...

Gameplay wise, the Moment to moment gunplay and overall control of Snake was the peak of any Metal Gear game thus far. I loved going in and just wreaking havoc, I felt like Big Boss. The open world concept hurt the game's pacing and making this basically Peace Walker 2 was a mistake.

Don't get me started on the story. MGSV undermines the entirety of the MGS franchise. All the other games beat over your head how special Big Boss' genes are, thats what sets him apart from everyone else. That's what makes cloning him such a big deal in the first place. The twist just ended up pissing me off.

In all honesty, I think it was the reviewers and critics that ruined this game. Yes the series and MGS4 had ridiculous cutscenes but no matter what they never felt disjointed. Everyone keeps hating on linear experiences, begging for Open worlds and more player choice. But in Narrative driven franchises like Metal Gear, an Open world (or Sandbox in this case) hurts the narrative.

I wanted and expected to see Big Boss meet the central characters of the first MGS. I wanted to see him as Saladin appear and save Sniper Wolf, recruit her to his cause and set her on her path. I wanted to see Big Boss inspire Vulcan Raven to take up arms. I wanted to see fucking GRAY FOX and Naomi Hunter's first encounter. I wanted to see Big Boss build Outer Heaven while leading Foxhound. I wanted to see him truly interact with his sons so we could have some context to their relationship. I wanted to see the noble man we meet in MGS3 descend into the war criminal that wanted to set the world on fire in MG.

Most of all, I really wanted to see Operation Interlude N1313 play out from Big Boss' perspective. I was holding out hope that the final boss fight (Jesus we didn't even get any spectacular Boss fights, which is a staple of MGS!!!) of the game to be the final fight in Outer Heaven against Solid Snake voiced by David Hayter. But we were all played like a fucking fiddle.
 
Not going to read any replies as im still pretty early but so far Ive loved the references they've pulled out.

-The Silent Hill homage area that has the PT radio news playing just before it. The fog, the radios, the body bags, the bloody curtains....its all there. AND WE"RE NEVER GUNNA SEE ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE TO IT FOR YEARS
-White Mamba having Lord of the Flies references peppered on him. A conch on his hip and a drawing of a pig (Piggy) on his back

This was cool but also super heavy handed. Kojima just cannot be subtle.
 
So with what we know now about Kaz's Hamburger desires, where does this put SNEAK KING into the MGS canon?

Was Sneak King "A Rival Living a Lie?"

Sneakkingbox.jpg
 
Quiet didn't have sex with Venom in that ending, she literally was about to be raped by 3 dudes, I doubt she would have had Venoms dick in her mind :)
I know she didn't, and that ending wasn't too bad either. it's just that Quiet is an awful character and her presumed love story is ridiculous for the same reason.
"Quiet sexing with BB ending" was just one way for me to shit on the whole thing.
 
Guys, week 2, I'm still super okay with the reveal.
I think knowing it before hand instead of getting punched in the gut helps a lot.
I bet this will be a MGS2 situation later on, where everyone will remember the game fondly

It's funny because MGS2 has my favorite story out of all the MGS games (at least its themes, ambitions and messages are the most interesting for me, by a fair margin), but I consider it one of the weakest because the gameplay was underwhelming and bosses were clunky, maybe with the exception of the first and the 2 final bosses. Actually, the gameplay itself was good, as it was the natural evolution of the stealth style seen in MGS1 (a style I wouldn't mind going back to, actually, for a spin-off maybe), but the setpieces were designed in a way that didn't take advantage of the stealth in meaningful ways, and it felt like the game was constantly throwing gimmicks at you for a long while in the Big Shell section without letting the mechanics breath.
On the other hand, V has probably my least favorite story of the bunch, but the gameplay alone is enough to push it into being one of my favorites (though the bosses are mostly disappointing, yeah). This is really a case of where your priorities lies I guess. I can see it being divisive, unless people get over the story.
 
These past few pages are so negative. What did everyone LIKE about the story?

I actually found Kid Mantis to be one of my favorite parts of the story. A super powerful psychic who gets fiddle'd by others because he's an innocent kid. They made Volgin coming back seem plausible. Mantis' story arc with crashing the plane when V woke up was really interesting (this is being talked about on the radio the second time V wakes up if you listen). He looks way cooler than than any other character sans Ponytail Snake. Him bonding with Eli was a nice touch. I loved how he took on the visual characteristics of the people he was channeling at the time.

While I totally agree that harping on the same problems over and over gets a bit tedious, I think the negativity is going to persist, because by and large most MGS fans are cripplingly disappointed with this game.

On a more positive note, I loved Miller in MGSV. One of my favorite scenes in the game is when the child soldiers arrive at mother base and one of the children steals a soldiers gun. Venom is amused by this and jokes to Miller: "See? They're naturals." And Miller snarls back: "No, they are not naturals!"

This interaction, to me, seemed like a perfect illustration of how the two would have a falling out. Big Boss sees the children as kindred spirits, people born into war, cursed to live a life of fighting. Miller sees them as children that have been molded and used by others as weapons, and wants to save from the path that they're on. Of course this is all rendered meaningless in retrospect, but before the twist ruined it all, it was some compelling stuff.
 
People are saying that this ending is the 100% ending. I personally don't believe that.

Saw someone on the subreddit say you have to dismantle 50 nukes and that they found out by asking someone named "nuke retrieval services" might be BS tho idk.
 
i like all the things that actually bridge the game to the others, like Zero tapes, Strangelove developing the AIs based on the Mammal Pod, Dr. Clark's gender retcon being explained, etc
 
These past few pages are so negative. What did everyone LIKE about the story?

I actually found Kid Mantis to be one of my favorite parts of the story. A super powerful psychic who gets fiddle'd by others because he's an innocent kid. They made Volgin coming back seem plausible. Mantis' story arc with crashing the plane when V woke up was really interesting (this is being talked about on the radio the second time V wakes up if you listen). He looks way cooler than than any other character sans Ponytail Snake. Him bonding with Eli was a nice touch. I loved how he took on the visual characteristics of the people he was channeling at the time.

As for the bolded, if it had been handled better Quiet's story was excellent. In many ways she was the best thing about the game.

The main story beats:
1. She's a Cipher assassin, sent to kill BB, but fails and is essentially burned alive. (Note: Interesting set-up for a character, she potential motivations for various actions regarding Skullface and BB/Venom already)
2. Skullface uses magic (parasites) to make her into a superhuman, and sends her back to kill BB (who's now actually Venom).
3. She tries to snipe Venom but fails again. However he spares her life. (Note: this kind of important moment between two characters setting up a dynamic relationship essentially NEVER happens in this game other than now.) This obviously sets up a conflict as her mission is still to kill him.
4. There is intrigue at her reluctance to talk. Venom decides to keep her around but acknowledges he might have to kill her. (Now we know both characters might kill the other, but both have reasons not to. Venom because he's a nice guy and would like info on Cipher, Quiet because her life has been saved.)
5. As the parasite thing comes to light, it becomes clear that Quiet is infected, and this is why she does not speak. The early intrigue successfully resolved in a way that makes sense.
6. Due to the last point, she could kill them all with words (clever plot by Skullface here) but is choosing not to. A noble sacrifice, which is obviously because she refuses to kill Venom because of him sparing her life. The assassin is reforming. Scene with Code Talker where she finally speaks confirms this.
7. Various cutscenes as well as the ingame missions show her bond with Venom growing, and them making an awesome team. The relationship grows. The player, too, grows attached to her.
8. The virus mutates leading to disaster, and it becomes clear to Quiet that she is still a threat. She leaves. Again, a noble decision, but one they can't let stand as she's dangerous. Something needs to be done. She's promptly captured for whatever reason.
9. Venom goes after her and it's unsure whether he'll kill or save her. (Well, it's supposed to be.) They save each other's lives in an epic showdown.
10. Venom is fatally wounded and the only thing that can save him is a medivac. The medivac only speaks English. This is the perfect culmination of the entire arc - All of the above points, from her original mission, to the infection, to her relationship with boss, mean you can see the gears turning as she struggles with the idea of sacrificing herself.
11. She does, and in doing so removes the threat of the virus and essentially ends her own life, for reasons that make complete sense and were shown step by step through the game. The player, like Venom, is left with the pain of losing her. The plot arc leaves no threads hanging.

THAT is reasonable storytelling. THAT worked. Each beat made sense and they were spread out properly. Now, seeing her frolick with Boss in the rain but be tortured by him 5 minutes later after a sideop is why I'm saying it's not perfect. The most fully realised character in the game being used mostly for ridiculous fanservice is why it's not perfect. But it was the best part of the entire story. Sometimes it felt like the entire game was about Quiet, to be honest.
 
i do, but that's because we thought we'd get the game designer of MS1, the innovator of MGS2, and the heart of MGS3.... We got a cranky old man instead who should have never returned to the series and whipped away all his great efforts
I mean he's still a great game designer, in that respect I'd say he's only gotten better.

I think he needs to get away from MGS (and now he has!), he just can't do anything more with it. He wants to smash in all his weird crazy ideas into a series that won't accept it anymore.
 
I know she didn't, and that ending wasn't too bad either. it's just that Quiet is an awful character and her presumed love story is ridiculous for the same reason.
"Quiet sexing with BB ending" was just one way for me to shit on the whole thing.
Ah ok :)

Anyway can anyone tell me where to find this?
COwY7p_XAAAzSRK.jpg

After which mission is this said?
 
To note, that disarmament ending is definitley still in the actual game according to the Metal Gear community manager: https://twitter.com/popcicle/status/642884247791886337

(In response to someone linking that 8 min video of the disarmament ending)
got it, yeah def in game


He also has this to say : https://twitter.com/popcicle/status/642888010950832128

probably better players stop searching game files for what they think is cut and instead find the game that isn't
 
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