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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
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What he says is objective, not subjective. This game did nothing but introduce a heap of retcons, contradictions and general nonsense to the overall story. Its absence does improve the story. There is no context to Outer Heaven at all in this game. There is no Outer Heaven. Just a second Mother Base. Not even the mention of Outer Heaven's location in Peace Walker gets touched on again. TPP has no real themes. There are some vestiges but they're so small as to be completely imperceptible.
It's a bad story in a rushed game.
Sorry I meant The End from MGS3.
In fact all the MGS3 boses were fucking great.
BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!
Member
I remember I was so excited with that side-op. Finally we're gonna fight Volgin for real this time!
In the end, we got an even less of a fight than the fucking Deathstroke "boss battle" in Arkham Knight ;_;
ZeroMaverick
Member
-What is real Big Boss up to?
-How does Outer Heaven, the place in South Africa not the ideology, come to be?
-What happens to Mother Base?
-How does Kaz become Master/McDonnel?
-What about Sniper Wolf who says she was rescued and trained to be a soldier by "Saladin" aka Big Boss?
MGSV was supposed to be the "missing link", but yet again, there is still a gap. For me personally, I wanted this game to be the game where BB becomes the "final boss" of a video game. I wanted to go around collecting the crazy superpowered freaks that become the bosses underneath him. Quiet felt like that, but there should have been more. I would've traded DD, D-Horse, and D- Walker for an entire crew of "bosses".
Instead of becoming a final boss, VS just does what BB did in Peace Walker and Portable Ops, but with the undertone of "revenge".
I don't think think I've ever heard him say that about a target.
Yeah and those wither got cut or Kojima omitted them for whatever reason. But people were saying that the trailer gave a complete different type of story than what we got. For example the scene with the two Liquids. People took their own context on that scene and disappointed themselves.
tryagainlater
Member
It was enough to show how he eventually could turn against America and the world. It was all we needed and I say that as someone who liked Peace Walker.
Spainkiller
the man who sold the world
It does.
The game is meant to be played episodically. Your argument falls apart if you consume the combination of gameplay and narrative thusly.
Eli's storyline is left unresolved (due to mission 51 being cut) but the rest got resolved and tells a nice story. Saying that it feels unfinished narratively has merit to it, but saying that it feels like half a game (especially since a game is more about gameplay than story, and this game is one of the best games of the year from that perspective) is admitting that you like to smoke crack.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Just to suffer
Reizo Ryuu
Member
SV and battle dress for snake, sneaking suit and parasite for females
Spainkiller
the man who sold the world
From obviously not knowing what a real retcon is, to claiming this game adds no context to Outer Heaven, you have no idea what you're talking about.
And sure, gloss over the fact that the central themes of the game (language and titles, and how they tie in with human identity) suit the franchise perfectly. Haters like you are the worst. Such a lust for salt.
Jangowuzhere
Banned
He's just there to be the biggest hint that we're playing a different Snake instead of actually Big Boss.
ZeroMaverick
Member
I won't argue with you on that point.
There's no way you can say the trailers mislead you in terms of what direction the story would take. The trailers literally showed you 90% of the game's story.
(A different problem for a different discussion)
I, too, made up what I expected the story to be in my mind. That's part of why I was so disappointed. However, I've read better stuff in a freshman creative writing workshop, and that's the biggest problem.
But yes, our fantasy (or, "phantasy") expectations is part of the problem.
Spainkiller
the man who sold the world
Definitely, nothing in the franchise touches the COBRA Unit when it comes to boss battles. Well, perhaps some of the moments in Revengeance, but I see that as its separate thing anyway
I did like the Sahelanthropus battle a lot, though! Proper gamey and mega impressive, visually. S-ranking the EXTREME version was just exhilirating.
Not really part of this narrative. Mission 46 is more of an addendum than anything.
I'm not sure what you mean here. Mother Base here is Outer Heaven, at least I thought it was? It's referred to as such at least once when Snake brings Eli abroad, and I want to say some in the tapes. I think it's pretty obvious that Mother Base in this game is the beginning of Outer Heaven.
I think Kaz's name is just in a constant state of rectonning, and how he became Master Miller isn't part of the narrative here.
Not part of the narrative.
This seems to be more in line, again, with people being unsatisfied with the story as opposed to being "incomplete." Almost all of the issues you listed aren't part of the narrative MGSV presents. Like someone else said above, it's understandable that it's not the game you thought it would be, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily incomplete either. As I said, outside Eli's storyline, everything introduced in the actual narrative of TPP has a conclusion.
GPILF
Weren't you banned for having such a nasty attitude?
Bartholomuse
Member
This is actually a very cool idea. The intro is good, buy playing through it a 2nd time with no alteration until the last moment was a bit weird, and it definitely didn't help the pacing. I'm surprised they repeated every step of the hospital level, I even had to invert my controls again since it was reversed, it just seems strange that they didn't change anything until the last 10 secs.
I think this sums up why all of the "missing link" games are completely unnecessary, the Big Boss story could have ended with MGS3 the ending was great and you could tell he was starting down a dark path after the death of The Boss. Every game after that has just made the story more convoluted and changed the portrayal of the characters in the series, they're just not needed.
Dick Justice
Banned
I just ended up skipping through his tapes. So absurdly fucking long, with that shitty droning voice.
Your "not part of the narrative" is literally the issue. The narrative was supposed to be the missing link. Instead it's a side story.
Wow, you basically provide nothing to support your claims. You are an outlier and should be aware of that.
Berserker976
Member
Ok, I'll bite. What context does this game add to Outer Heaven?
I'm with you. I don't think Kojima is a bad writer, but some lines and some of his games in general I think I could write better too. Buy this guy and his meta commentary on his own series with MGS1 MGS2 are brilliant. No doubt about it, Kojima is tired of MGS. And t he writing shows. He made this one for the fans. He always knows how to make a game fun to play.
ZeroMaverick
Member
WrenchNinja
Member
The nice thing about coming back from a ban is that the person can longer hold himself above everyone else about knowing the story and playing the game before everyone else
tryagainlater
Member
Lol, ok dude. An episodic format can still have an appropriate build up to an ending. You know, like in TV. Where was the build up to Mission 46? Why were we suddenly playing the prologue again? Why did we have to play the prologue again? It was boring the first time. I actually like the stupid twist but the presentation and the whole story structure was awful. If you watched a TV show and the last episode was just the first episode again out of nowhere while showing a twist but leaving unresolved plot lines from the second last episode, I doubt anyone would see it as quality.
And yea, I must smoke crack. Such a fine argument right there. I said story wise, it was like half a game. I don't have much problem with the gameplay other than the base building being an annoying distraction from the actual fun stuff.
lol, do please enlighten me as to what a "real" retcon is. This game is absolutely full of them, Venom Snake being just one. We also have Liquid's speech about Big Boss at the end of MGS1 no longer making a shred of sense because none of it happened.
Where's the context for Outer Heaven? We learn absolutely nothing about it except that Solid Snake killed Venom Snake there instead of Big Boss. There's no explanation for how Big Boss built it, when he built it, whether he was cooperating with Venom Snake or sold him out, etc.
Those themes are barely apparent in the game, they're glossed over completely by the ridiculous plot surrounding them--- Magic parasites. Zero's scheme is Captain Planet villain tier, likewise with Snoozeface. You're really using a shitty line from a shitty story while you're trying to defend said story? Haha.
For all we know, Outer Heaven could have been retconned into being Mother Base of this game.
Wouldn't surprise me honestly if Kojima wanted to go that way. He sure loves places in the middle of the ocean/sea
Benedict Kazuhira "Kaz" McDonnell "Master" Miller
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
If anything it muddled things up. Before it was a straightforward case of Big Boss building a mercenary company while he's head of a US special forces unit. He sends in a couple of his own agents to trap them but is defeated by one. That's goofy but it's also pretty clear to follow.
But now it's a case of maybe Big Boss building that same mercenary company if not fake Big Boss building it if not both of them building it in collusion with each other if not one giving the other his blessing while the real Big Boss builds the one in the sequel. Then real Big Boss sends a couple of his own agents in to maybe trap them but maybe not since there's the possibility that he meant to work WITH the fake Big Boss.
^And then Miller says he will support the Phantom Big Boss to send the real Big Boss to hell which indicates there's a possibility now that Miller was also involved in the Outer Heaven incident of MG1 which gives further credence to the idea that Venom and the real Big Boss were at odds with each other which by extension now makes you question what Venom was doing between 1984 and 1995. If he was a famous mercenary then Big Boss could not command FOXHOUND at that same time frame for obvious reason. And who knows at this point now.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Spainkiller back to fiercely defend this game's many storytelling decisions
One of the biggest disappointments for sure.
I direct back to my last paragraph. I mean, okay, I understand that, but I think using to claim the story is incomplete is faulty.
Parents can be so cruel
ZeroMaverick
Member
This kind of confused me too, though.
Throughout the game, Miller and Venom refer to Mother Base as Outer Heaven. But then at the end, Ocelot says that Big Boss is forming Outer Heaven.
Also:
At the end of Quiet's last mission, they say that Quiet had the 3rd English strain vile or whatever. But Eli clearly has it. Did I miss something?
Bartholomuse
Member
I would have loved to see Kaz be referred to as Master Miller in this game. Maybe Venom or Ocelot wouldn't have called him that but I would have loved to see motherbase staff refer to him as Master Miller, or "Hellmaster Miller" it would fit his station in motherbase and it's consistent with how he's referred to in Metal Gear when he starts training FOXHOUND recruits.
Spainkiller
the man who sold the world
Nasty? I'm just saying how I feel about his posts; I'm not insulting him or anything. I genuinely think he's judging the game superficially.
I got banned for using the word 'butthurt', which, hilariously, is apparently against the rules.
Anyway, just because I wholeheartedly disagree with people doesn't mean my attitude is nasty. Grow a thicker skin.
Made for a killer opening and some great trailers.
Someone mentioned Man of Steel in the old thread, and it's an apt comparison, since the story of this game was also manipulated to impressive extent to sell amazing trailers out of a garbage final product (as far as story is concerned, of course, because the gameplay delivered, as far as i am concerned).
Outer Heaven is a fortress-based military nation in South Africa 200km north of Galzburg. There are other variations on the name but they're all distinct from each other, because Kojima is painfully bad.
The first Mother Base became "Outer Heaven."
The second Mother Base became "Outer Heaven.
Liquid wanted to turn Shadow Moses into "Outer Heaven."
Solidus wanted to turn Manhattan into "Outer Heaven."
Liquid Ocelot used Outer Haven as "Outer Heaven."
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