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[daniels]

Refugees and immigrants aren't synonyms. It's our responsibility to help people who aren't safe in their home country.

Yes to a certain point i agree but it is impossible to let everyone just come to Germany i mean you do realize that almost all of Africa and like half the middle east would count as refugees with the current rules?

One thing is for sure we have no obligation to take refugees to the point that the native population and country gets fucked over in a large measurable way in terms of wage dumping, unemployment, future prospect for children, imported radical islam, crime and even terror attacks.

Well, Germany refuses to accept people from the Balkan. So it's misleading to believe that the crazy high numbers of refugees right now in Germany will stay in Germany or EU.

Yes not everyone will stay but then you have family reunification (which every politican is currently to scared to bring up) and the numbers will snowball into millions so the 800.000 are probably on the low end and wishful thinking.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

So you want equality for everyone, and yet you're OK with Germany not taking any more refugees because Merkel wants so.

Yep. Schengen was a shitty idea from the start.

I think Schengen was a decent enough idea, if the saved resources from dismantling internal EU borders was diverted to strengthening the EU's external borders. I believe this was the idea from the start - to treat the whole Schengen area like one big country. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to have happened. And I'm glad the UK never joined, and has no plans to join.

 

[timetokill]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=9&v=09vqhZV6jt8

BBC radio call in's. I suspect the media is losing the narrative.

and holy hell, the emotional blackmail the BBC interviewer is using isn't working as well as it used too.

Or as a comment put it "Typical BBC presenter, pushing his own personal point of view and not listening or considering others peoples thoughts and opinions".

Haha, wow.
Callers had some legitimate concerns, and the host just responds with, "are you a good person? do you think kids should die?"

I love that a caller calls in complaining sky the media engaging in emotional blackmail and the host almost immediately responds with, "by didn't you feel bad about that dead boy on the beach?"

 

[ClosingADoor]

No offense, you're clueless..
Have you EVER visit ed Italy ?
On paper we are just a transit port, but all those that don't have any means to move out (economically) and those who have no official paper stack are not accounted for and ultimately they roam around (inside) Italy like an invisibile plague..
...

I know and addressed that a little in my later posts. I am mostly talking about countries like France, UK, Netherlands, Denmark, etc.

 

[PdotMichael]

Yes to a certain point i agree but it is impossible to let everyone just come to Germany i mean you do realize that almost all of Africa and like half the middle east would count as refugees with the current rules?

One thing is for sure we have no obligation to take refugees to the point that the native population and country gets fucked over in a large measurable way in terms of wage dumping, unemployment, future prospect for children, imported radical islam, crime and even terror attacks.



Yes not everyone will stay but then you have family reunification (which every politican is currently to scared to bring up) and the numbers will snowball into millions so the 800.000 are probably on the low end and wishful thinking.

Good that we are far away from the bullshit you are talking in Germany. So the German constitution is more important here.

By the way the German economy is growing.

 

[Xando]

Germany now expecting 1 million refugees this year. Likely to rise again.
http://www.stern.de/politik/deutsch...oesterreich-mobilisiert-militaer-6449628.html

 

[Buntachan]

Integration of immigrants is something that happens when people seek out citizenship out of desire to participate in another society.

Integration just doesn't occur smoothly for displaced peoples. It's taxing on any system, and most just want to establish their old lives under their new found safety. Sure there are things these nations could be doing more, but they have no obligation. It is such an tertiary function of the government, and what little they can do only exist as a result of building up society to the point where it is reasonably attainable through surplus resources.

Agreed.

I saw another poster accuse all of this being a political move by Merkel and Germany, and then accusing Germany of never doing a good job of integrating the refugees.

What?

Someone seeks asylum in your country, and you let the person in. If the person does not integrate well, it's somehow your fault as well? Lose-lose for the person letting them in, might as well shut the doors from the very beginning.

A big worrying part of these refugees is that their religion (Islam) and the muslim way of life can really prevent them from integrating well with the local community. It takes many, many generations of people for them to assimilate to the local culture. It's been done before in the USA, where 3rd, 4th, and subsequent generations eventually pull away from the strict identity of their forebearers and become.. just American. It was also achieved to a certain extent in Singapore, but the money from the middle east used to fund Islamic mosques and reignite fundamentalism is seeing an increased uptake of olden ways.

 

[spekkeh]

At this point I think the only thing that will help is a complete moratorium om asylum across the EU for the foreseeable future. You can flee here and will be given shelter and very basic subsistence, but no work and no prospect of citizenship.
(of course even then it's tough times ahead, because they know to start making babies immediately when they get here so that it is too heartrending to send them away after all those years)

In any case, Europe is considered too much a world of milk and honey for the Middle East. Problems should be contained within the region and of course we should help those countries as much as possible.

 

[daniels]

Good that we are far away from the bullshit you are talking in Germany. So the German constitution is more important here.

By the way the German economy is growing.

Saying something is bullshit is not really a argument against any point i made.

 

[Buntachan]

Yes, someone please answer this for me too. I've asked the same question several times in the thread. What are we supposed to do with the hundreds of thousands already at the European border and the millions more that will arrive over time as Syria collapses further?

Build a wall with armed guards across the Hungarian border and shoot anyone trying to climb it while we watch them starve on the other side? Maybe that would be the traditional European solution. We do have a history of being good at genocides after all...

You are behaving like a bully, shame on you.

Your cruel emotional appeal to shame other posters and Europe in general is lame.

So tell us, what are you proposing here? Tell us how you would handle this situation.

Do you want every country to open its borders and let everyone who wants to come in, in?

Then for every single concern or limitation that other posters raise, post a rational reply that will convince them.


Otherwise, if all you have in your pocket is emotional shaming, cut it out. Because you're making other human beings look evil just because they don't think we can save everyone. People like you talk act like shields of humanity and talk about human compassion but show NONE of it while posting and demonizing other posters.

Almost no poster here is saying, "let them die."

Everyone is essentially saying, "we don't think we can save all of them."

Demonizing other posters with perfectly rational positions and acting like saints, with no rational plan, no real display of depth of understanding the issues and limitations at hand -- political, social, economic, military -- is simply absurd.

 

[Grep]

I think Schengen was a decent enough idea, if the saved resources from dismantling internal EU borders was diverted to strengthening the EU's external borders. I believe this was the idea from the start - to treat the whole Schengen area like one big country. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to have happened. And I'm glad the UK never joined, and has no plans to join.

One big country controlled by Germany. That's why EU will never never be a federation like Russia for instance, because not all EU countries can accept absolute German supremacy.

 

[patapuf]

One big country controlled by Germany. That's why EU will never never be a federation like Russia for instance, because not all EU countries can accept absolute German supremacy.

Germany is not THAT dominant but the bigger countries would certainly dictate what is going on. Considering the continent's history and the countless wars fought precisely to get away from these bigger countries there'll have to be a lot of convincing to be done.

 

[Nivash]

You are behaving like a bully, shame on you.

Your cruel emotional appeal to shame other posters and Europe in general is lame.

So tell us, what are you proposing here? Tell us how you would handle this situation.

Do you want every country to open its borders and let everyone who wants to come in, in?

Then for every single concern or limitation that other posters raise, post a rational reply that will convince them.


Otherwise, if all you have in your pocket is emotional shaming, cut it out. Because you're making other human beings look evil just because they don't think we can save everyone. People like you talk act like shields of humanity and talk about human compassion but show NONE of it while posting and demonizing other posters.

Almost no poster here is saying, "let them die."

Everyone is essentially saying, "we don't think we can save all of them."

Demonizing other posters with perfectly rational positions and acting like saints, with no rational plan, no real display of depth of understanding the issues and limitations at hand -- political, social, economic, military -- is simply absurd.

I'm behaving like a bully for calling people out on the fact that we can't just close our borders and pretend like nothing's happening when it will kill thousands of people and that the refugees are not going to stop coming no matter what we do, short of shooting them on sight? If people feel bad about that then good. It just means that they're human.

I've mentioned time and time again what I think it's obvious what we need to do: create a universal EU refugee policy that will distribute refugees evenly and fairly across all EU members. It's the only rational alternative. We can't have common borders without a universal approach to enforcing them. This isn't my own hare-brained scheme either, it's what the EU leaders have been discussing all day and what they'll keep discussing in Luxembourg in a month. Without such an approach the Schengen agreement will fail and as a cornerstone of the Union, threaten to drag the rest of the EU down with it too.

People yelling "close the borders, we're full!" aren't rational because that's not a solution. The refugees won't go away. They'll still be there, keep coming and we will have to handle that. Saying "we can't save everyone" is the same thing as saying "let the people we don't save die", whether people realize it or not. Insisting on this flawed line of thinking WILL KILL THOUSANDS. Tens of thousands, even. Either at our doorstep, while trying to get here or back in Syria because they have nowhere to run.

The EU has 500 million citizens. We're the largest economy on Earth. Insisting that we can't handle even a few hundred thousand refugees, during the greatest refugee crisis since the Second World War, isn't rational, it's insanity. There is a way to take care of the refugees and avoiding countries like Germany getting overwhelmed. If you ignore that way and keep insisting that we need to wall off Europe then at the very least acknowledge that we will be building those walls on top of mass graves for unspeakable numbers of innocent people. Don't pretend like it's no big deal, that they're just people looking for a handout - a very large amount of these people will die.

 

[Interceptor]

You are behaving like a bully, shame on you.

Your cruel emotional appeal to shame other posters and Europe in general is lame.

So tell us, what are you proposing here? Tell us how you would handle this situation.

Do you want every country to open its borders and let everyone who wants to come in, in?

Then for every single concern or limitation that other posters raise, post a rational reply that will convince them.


Otherwise, if all you have in your pocket is emotional shaming, cut it out. Because you're making other human beings look evil just because they don't think we can save everyone. People like you talk act like shields of humanity and talk about human compassion but show NONE of it while posting and demonizing other posters.

Almost no poster here is saying, "let them die."

Everyone is essentially saying, "we don't think we can save all of them."

Demonizing other posters with perfectly rational positions and acting like saints, with no rational plan, no real display of depth of understanding the issues and limitations at hand -- political, social, economic, military -- is simply absurd.

Well he argues that sweden managed immigration "just fine" and that there are no problems.. quite telling.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

One big country controlled by Germany. That's why EU will never never be a federation like Russia for instance, because not all EU countries can accept absolute German supremacy.

That's only going to get worse if the UK leaves in 2017.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

Almost no poster here is saying, "let them die."

Everyone is essentially saying, "we don't think we can save all of them."

Its essentially the same. We cant save them? Will we die if we take so many in? Starve with them? We might loose a very tiny bit of comfort...shocking.

I am willing to take out a percentage out of my loan check for refugees only, as a refugee tax, you know why, because I dont have to have it all (and more than I need, food, extra cars, stupid shit you buy because you are bored), at the expense of other human beings.

 

[Nivash]

Well he argues that sweden managed immigration "just fine" and that there are no problems.. quite telling.

I didn't say there wasn't problems, I said they're irrelevant. I don't care for the costs, the marginal increase in crime or even possible reductions in standard of living over time even if I thought that was a risk. Syria is hell on Earth. These people will die without or help. They have a right to asylum, as is enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

I don't believe the doomsayers claiming that we will collapse for a second. But even if they were right, even if the only way to maintain our current standards of living would be to spit on human rights and let these people die, I would be in favor helping them. I'd take saving lives over saving material wealth any day.

 

[PdotMichael]

Saying something is bullshit is not really a argument against any point i made.

Can't argue against your obscure claims which don't have any base in reality.

So calling it bullshit is the only thing left here.

 

[PdotMichael]

I didn't say there wasn't problems, I said they're irrelevant. I don't care for the costs, the marginal increase in crime or even possible reductions in standard of living over time even if I thought that was a risk. Syria is hell on Earth. These people will die without or help. They have a right to asylum, as is enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

I don't believe the doomsayers claiming that we will collapse for a second. But even if they were right, even if the only way to maintain our current standards of living would be to spit on human rights and let these people die, I would be in favor helping them. I'd take saving lives over saving material wealth any day.

They have a right based on the German constitution.

 

[ICKE]

Apparently Austria is about to send soldiers to secure the Hungarian border while the Czech Rep is also about to adopt a similar strategy with the Austrian border.

If people are not allowed to leave Hungary, there will be total chaos. The ongoing sentiments in Hungary are very troublesome and who knows what will happen if all these people are stuck there.

 

[Nivash]

They have a right based on the German constitution.

That too. But even if they hadn't, as is probably the case in a lot of other EU countries, the UDHR trumps that.

 

[Doczu]

Apparently Austria is about to send soldiers to secure the Hungarian border while the Czech Rep is also about to adopt a similar strategy with the Austrian border.

If people are not allowed to leave Hungary, there will be total chaos. The ongoing sentiments in Hungary are very troublesome and who knows what will happen if all these people are stuck there.

No wonder they are, as the only way to Germany is now through the Czech Rep. and Poland, so imigrants in Austria will try to go that way.

 

[daniels]

Can't argue against your obscure claims which don't have any base in reality.

So calling it bullshit is the only thing left here.

Family reunification and that it will increase the numbers into millions is bullshit that has no base in reality?
Increase in radicalization (suhl) and imported isis terrorists (two were recently caught for example) is bullshit with no base in reality?
Millions of Africans and Syrians and others from the middle east try to get to Europe and Europe is not equipped to handle this (kinda obvious at that point) is bullshit with no base in reality?

 

[Interceptor]

I didn't say there wasn't problems, I said they're irrelevant. I don't care for the costs, the marginal increase in crime or even possible reductions in standard of living over time even if I thought that was a risk. Syria is hell on Earth. These people will die without or help. They have a right to asylum, as is enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.


I don't believe the doomsayers claiming that we will collapse for a second. But even if they were right, even if the only way to maintain our current standards of living would be to spit on human rights and let these people die, I would be in favor helping them. I'd take saving lives over saving material wealth any day.

No, thats exactly what you said. "Just fine". You not caring for real life problems is an entirely different issue.

But facts don't really matter anymore once you throw around words like "genocide", "dead children" and "racist". It kills any discussion, any actual ambition to solve this mess. It just creates mindless Yes to everything people who are busy clapping in train stations in search of a good instragram post.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Its essentially the same. We cant save them? Will we die if we take so many in? Starve with them? We might loose a very tiny bit of comfort...shocking.

I am willing to take out a percentage out of my loan check for refugees only, as a refugee tax, you know why, because I dont have to have it all (and more than I need, food, extra cars, stupid shit you buy because you are bored), at the expense of other human beings.

People are dying now on the trip here, drowning every day. The way the current system works with "get over here and we'll take you in" is also an unsafe one. Better would be to fund shelter and food for people in the region, then set some quota for Europe and other regions to help out and get those people safely to those countries.

That way you can also help the poor ones that can not pay human traffickers, old people unable to make the trip and families that are now broken up because only the husband can go.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Family reunification and that it will increase the numbers into millions is bullshit that has no base in reality?
Increase in radicalization (suhl) and imported isis terrorists (two were recently caught for example) is bullshit with no base in reality?
Millions of Africans and Syrians and others from the middle east try to get to Europe and Europe is not equipped to handle this is bullshit with no base in reality?

They caught two IS members among the refugees?

 

[Nivash]

No, thats exactly what you said. "Just fine". You not caring for real life problems is an entirely different problem. But facts don't really matter anymore once you throw around words like "genocide", "dead children" and "racist". It kills any discussion, any actual ambition to solve this mess. It just creates mindless Yes to everything people who are busy clapping in train stations in search of a good instragram post.

How is "just fine" equal to "perfectly, with no problems whatsoever"? I was using that in response to someone implying some kind of chaos and eventual societal collapse. So yes, compared to that doomsday scenario we're managing" just fine".

"Dead children" is accurate, we're seeing plenty. "Racist" is correct too, we're seeing plenty of those as well. Even "genocide" would be an accurate description of what we would be forced to do to fully close our borders right now. If you don't like it, good, it means you're not prepared to actually go through with it, you just aren't prepared to accept these as the consequences either.

Calling the "Welcome immigrants" people mindless says more about you than it does about them. At least those people think further than their wallets and are aware of what these people are running from and why they need a warm welcome.

 

[pmj]

I didn't say there wasn't problems, I said they're irrelevant. I don't care for the costs, the marginal increase in crime or even possible reductions in standard of living over time even if I thought that was a risk. Syria is hell on Earth. These people will die without or help. They have a right to asylum, as is enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

I don't believe the doomsayers claiming that we will collapse for a second. But even if they were right, even if the only way to maintain our current standards of living would be to spit on human rights and let these people die, I would be in favor helping them. I'd take saving lives over saving material wealth any day.

There's a reason you don't care about costs and that's because medical professionals are in high demand and you're all but guaranteed a well paid job. It's the lower class that will suffer if the economy takes a hit.

Maybe that's an unfair thing to say, but it kinda hurts when you and people you know live on the margin and then have a doctor to be tell you that we can afford it. For us it's not a matter of choosing a less expensive wine come weekend. I'm looking at my pension prognosis and it's not even liveable.

I do agree that the problems are vastly overstated though. I live in an area with a lot of immigrants and things are pretty good here. It's a nice enough part of town and I've never felt unsafe.

 

[Doczu]

They caught two IS members among the refugees?

Yes, in Hungary. There are unsourced reports that the police force is on higher alert because of it.

 

[SporeCrawler]

title is misleading. germany did not exit schengen. schengen itself allows temporary reinstatement of border control.

to the subject. europe needs to get its act together. greece, italy, germany and sweden are taking in refugees while rich countries like france or UK are refusing participation. i think its a bad thing that merkel had to made this turn but its understandable given the situation where ten thousands would enter germany.

 

[Nivash]

There's a reason you don't care about costs and that's because medical professionals are in high demand and you're all but guaranteed a well paid job. It's the lower class that will suffer if the economy takes a hit.

Maybe that's an unfair thing to say, but it kinda hurts when you and people you know live on the margin and then have a doctor to be tell you that we can afford it. For us it's not a matter of choosing a less expensive wine come weekend. I'm looking at my pension prognosis and it's not even liveable.

I do agree that the problems are vastly overstated though. I live in an area with a lot of immigrants and things are pretty good here. It's a nice enough part of town and I've never felt unsafe.

So tax me harder then. Another 10% for the wealthiest, whatever. 50 % if that's what it takes.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

People are dying now on the trip here, drowning every day. The way the current system works with "get over here and we'll take you in" is also an unsafe one. Better would be to fund shelter and food for people in the region, then set some quota for Europe and other regions to help out and get those people safely to those countries.

That way you can also help the poor ones that can not pay human traffickers, old people unable to make the trip and families that are now broken up because only the husband can go.

I agree completely. Trafficker boats and vessels need to be confiscated and destoryed. This is a bih problem in itself. But we are now "stuck" with the people that are already on european soil. We have to deal with them, even if some wont like it.

Family reunification and that it will increase the numbers into millions is bullshit that has no base in reality?
Increase in radicalization (suhl) and imported isis terrorists (two were recently caught for example) is bullshit with no base in reality?
Millions of Africans and Syrians and others from the middle east try to get to Europe and Europe is not equipped to handle this (kinda obvious at that point) is bullshit with no base in reality?

Yes, yes and yes. You didnt make any valid point, nothing that backs your claims, no data, no numbers nothing.

2 out of 800,000 thousand, thats a joke of a number even if its true (which we dont know, as you still have to back any of your points with real world data). There are far more "legal" EU citizens that went to fight for IS and came back with no problems.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Any Dutch people who can give some insight on how many former Yugoslavians returned home?

The vast majority of refugees from former Yugoslavia have settled permanently in the Netherlands and the increase through family reunions far outstrips the returns. A law was passed in 1999 that meant anyone going back to Bosnia would still receive between 500 and 600 Euros a month for the rest of their lives and out of 76,000 refugees only 727 used it in the first 5 years.

 

[Doczu]

The vast majority of refugees from former Yugoslavia have settled permanently in the Netherlands and the increase through family reunions far outstrips the returns. A law was passed in 1999 that meant anyone going back to Bosnia would still receive between 500 and 600 Euros a month for the rest of their lives and out of 76,000 refugees only 727 used it in the first 5 years.

Thank you very much Falcon. So it's safe to assume that the same will happen with this crisis. But on a larger scale.

 

[Interceptor]

Thank you very much Falcon. So it's safe to assume that the same will happen with this crisis. But on a larger scale.

I would call it naive or dishonest to claim there is no evidence or data for family reunifications when the last 40 years of german history are just sitting in your face.

 

[Drencrom]

I didn't say there wasn't problems, I said they're irrelevant. I don't care for the costs, the marginal increase in crime or even possible reductions in standard of living over time even if I thought that was a risk. Syria is hell on Earth. These people will die without or help. They have a right to asylum, as is enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

I don't believe the doomsayers claiming that we will collapse for a second. But even if they were right, even if the only way to maintain our current standards of living would be to spit on human rights and let these people die, I would be in favor helping them. I'd take saving lives over saving material wealth any day.

Do you really think most people in our country are as willing as you are to sacrifice their own wealth, welfare, safety and our way of living? Listening to you it's fairly clear you don't have a family with children of your own. It's very easy to talk big and about saving people at any costs and that no one should be left behind, but most people barely have time, the money and energy to take care of their own families and people around them.

Sweden are already making huge efforts in helping refugees, all these manifestations about completely open borders baffles me and this is coming from a second generation immigrant myself. We can't integrate these people, we barely have housing and there are no jobs for them. Taking in thousands upon thousands of people for the sake of saving people isn't sustainable at all. I know I'm gonna sound like an asshole, but your intentions and vision regarding saving all people at any costs are commendable but ultimately naïve.

 

[Ovek]

That's only going to get worse if the UK leaves in 2017.

Which the country for the first time ever in national polls is leaning towards.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Which the country for the first time ever in national polls is leaning towards.

 

[Buntachan]

Its essentially the same. We cant save them? Will we die if we take so many in? Starve with them? We might loose a very tiny bit of comfort...shocking.

I am willing to take out a percentage out of my loan check for refugees only, as a refugee tax, you know why, because I dont have to have it all (and more than I need, food, extra cars, stupid shit you buy because you are bored), at the expense of other human beings.

No, I don't want you to be willing, I want you to do it. Right now.

I want you to take your money and give it to the refugees this very moment, because your words are empty until you do it.

In fact, I want you to not take out a percentage, but take out ALL OF IT. Until every single refugee you find has food and shelter.

Wait what, you mean you need some of that money for yourself?

You mean you want to let children die at the borders because you need money for yourself? You are thoroughly evil.

What are you waiting for? Go give all your money this instant.

 

[mrklaw]

Wasn't merkel saying she welcomed more refugees with open arms just a couple of weeks ago? Surely they must have had some idea how many would be coming in. To do such a dramatic about face this soon afterwards is crazy

 

[Nivash]

Do you really think most people in our country are as willing as you are to sacrifice their own wealth, welfare, safety and our way of living? Listening to you it's fairly clear you don't have a family with children of your own. It's very easy to talk big and about saving people at all costs and that no one should be left behind, but most people barely have time, the money and energy to take care of their own families and people around them.

Sweden are already making huge efforts in helping refugees, all these manifestations about completely open borders baffles me and this is coming from a second generation immigrant myself. We can't integrate these people, we barely have housing and there are no jobs for these people. Taking in thousands upon thousands of people for the sake of saving people isn't sustainable at all. I know I'm gonna sound like an asshole, but your intentions and vision regarding saving all people at any costs are commendable but ultimately naïve.

I'm under no illusions that all that many Swedes agree with me. I'm convinced my side's already lost this battle, support for SD is increasing too much to be temporary, by next election we'll likely see a joint SD-alliance (or just SD-Moderates-Christian Democrats) government and that will be the end of Sweden's humanitarian refugee policies.

So no, I'm not naive. Idealistic, maybe. I'm standing up for the only thing I can consider decent and moral. After politics fail I'll see about expanding my involvement with charities and do what little can be done on that front. I'm also doing this for any future children of mine - I don't want them to grow up in a society that values things over people, I want to be able to look them in the eye one day and be able to say that I did what I could.

 

[keuja]

So tax me harder then. Another 10% for the wealthiest, whatever. 50 % if that's what it takes.

And racism and religion aside, that's why most people won't accept massive number of refugees.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I'm standing up for the only thing I can consider decent and moral. After politics fail I'll see about expanding my involvement with charities and do what little can be done on that front. I'm also doing this for any future children of mine - I don't want them to grow up in a society that values things over people, I want to be able to look them in the eye one day and be able to say that I did what I could.

Right now you are telling other people to stand up and are not doing it yourself honestly. It is easy to say "tax the rich" (whatever you see as rich in this case) and complain others don't do enough.

Good on you if you are going to volunteer or give money to charity, but don't judge people too harshly who are not in a position to do that or have other priorities.

 

[Buntachan]

Why are any of you waiting to be taxed for this?

The money is needed TODAY for the refugees. Right NOW.

Raising taxes requires legislation, and an effect period, which can result in a delay of a calendar year or two (2016 or 2017).

Meanwhile the refugees are starving and dying from a lack of monies.

Don't wait for the government to implement a refugee tax. Take ALL YOUR MONEY, right now, and give it to the refugees. Do whatever it takes. Paypal it to someone in Germany to distribute it on the streets. Or even buy a plane ticket to Europe or wherever you are, on-site, and give all your money yourself to ensure it gets into the right hands.

Don't even think about keeping any money to buy a ticket back home, because every single dollar you keep is a starving child, and you're not a monster are you?

Anything it takes.

 

[mrklaw]

Is the UN not already involved with this? Surely the numbers being talked about are unsustainable in terms of full asylum granting. Shouldn't countries be looking more at temporary shelter and repatriation once things settle down? Even if that takes a year or more. With this volume of people I don't think they are all directly under threat from imprisonment or torture etc, they are literally just displaced by the fighting

The most shocking thing is how badly developed nations are reacting to this - especially a so called community of European countries.

 

[Linkyn]

Just read that Austria is now also looking to tighten the border to Hungary. Wonder who's going to be next.

 

[Interceptor]

I'm under no illusions that all that many Swedes agree with me. I'm convinced my side's already lost this battle, support for SD is increasing too much to be temporary, by next election we'll likely see a joint SD-alliance (or just SD-Moderates-Christian Democrats) government and that will be the end of Sweden's humanitarian refugee policies.

So no, I'm not naive. Idealistic, maybe. I'm standing up for the only thing I can consider decent and moral. After politics fail I'll see about expanding my involvement with charities and do what little can be done on that front. I'm also doing this for any future children of mine - I don't want them to grow up in a society that values things over people, I want to be able to look them in the eye one day and be able to say that I did what I could.

Yep, that's your problem. You have a deeply idealistic view on the world. It's actually kinda romantic and in a pefect world a good goal to achieve. But as with communism it only works on paper and fails miserable once applied to reality. It only serves the ego of those advertising it. "But my intentions were so noble". Yes, but by applying them to the real world you made it worse for everyone involved.

 

[Chittagong]

The last missing link in the EU federation story, joint military action, just got real

#BREAKING EU approves military action against Mediterranean people smugglers: sources

 

[mercenar1e]

The last missing link in the EU federation story, joint military action, just got real

If they conduct strikes against the smugglers who will bring in the refugees? Maybe that's how Europe will slow down the migration.. first Germany closes its border and now military action. It's as if they're regretting the open door policy that Merkel talked about

 

[spekkeh]

I'm under no illusions that all that many Swedes agree with me. I'm convinced my side's already lost this battle, support for SD is increasing too much to be temporary, by next election we'll likely see a joint SD-alliance (or just SD-Moderates-Christian Democrats) government and that will be the end of Sweden's humanitarian refugee policies.

So no, I'm not naive. Idealistic, maybe. I'm standing up for the only thing I can consider decent and moral. After politics fail I'll see about expanding my involvement with charities and do what little can be done on that front. I'm also doing this for any future children of mine - I don't want them to grow up in a society that values things over people, I want to be able to look them in the eye one day and be able to say that I did what I could.

No you're not, you're grandstanding on the internet and, given you are most likely not a 1%er, are trying to enforce others to give much more than you.