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[Phrozenflame500]

Probably inevitable. Germany can't take in everyone and doing this raises the pressure for other EU states to work towards a solution.

For the sake of the refugees I hope some deal is struck, but I don't hold my breath.

 

[Devil]

People keep saying other nations need to do their share. Most of these Refugee's do not want to go elsewhere. They want Germany or Austria. Fuck everywhere else. Keep harping on Eastern Europe that economically outside a few is still in poor shape from decades of Russian oppression.

.

I'm sure many Syrians would stop and settle right on the spot if there were more countries along the way who would actually welcome, shelter and register them. Germany is the destination country because it did just that, not (just) because it may be the richest of the rich countries (which it isn't, relatively speaking). Wouldn't you assume they'd accept an improvement of their quality of life of about 1000% in France as well, instead of 1200% in Germany?

Same goes for Poland etc. And as I said: Nobody is demanding of any country to overdo itself. A quota for the distribution can (and should) include the local economy, labour market etc.

Probably inevitable. Germany can't take in everyone and doing this raises the pressure for other EU states to work towards a solution.

For the sake of the refugees I hope some deal is struck, but I don't hold my breath.

Spoiler

Had to do it, sorry

 

[Daedardus]

Problem is most aren't. Also, most criminality cones from "integrated non natives". This will be the downfall of Europe as we know it.

Most criminality comes from poor, low-skilled workers with a bad life outlook. Of course, many of the immigrants fall in that type, that's the exact reason why they migrated. It's not their non-nativeness that makes them criminals. Correlation does not imply causation. It's true that it doesn't solve the problem though, but you can't treat immigrants like they are all criminals, that's a gross overgeneralization. The world would be better if people judged each other on the basis that each person is. If it's non-native scum, it's still scum, but there's also native scum and non-native good people. Don't let your opinion form of even the majority of a certain group.

 

[Azulsky]

If this is the end result of doing nothing about Syria when it caved in on itself then we need to reconsider isolationist policy.

 

[Grep]

Europe (=Germany) just can't continue like this, I can't believe that refugees made the whole system to collapse.

And yet, Russians are the biggest threat to EU security.. Right...

 

[antonz]

Europe (=Germany) just can't continue like this, I can't believe that refugees made the whole system to collapse.

And yet, Russians are the biggest threat to EU security.. Right...

Russia has been one of the biggest roadblocks with regard to Syria. Now Russia is massing troops and equipment that is set to directly target US and European military force inside Syria to continue the crisis. This entire Crisis is a goose laying golden eggs for Russia as it does destabilize the EU

 

[TatteredHat]

I'd like to set up quotas regarding the demographics that we're letting into our country, atleast 70% have to be women, children and elderly, the remaining amount can be young men.

 

[oti]

The rest of EU should close their borders to germans. But, of course, they don't have the balls to go against Herr Merkel.

1/10

 

[forms]

13000 refugees on one single starion in ONE day? Wow.

 

[Damerman]

Problem is most aren't. Also, most criminality comes from "integrated non natives". This will be the downfall of Europe as we know it. It is already causing the downfall of the Netherlands for years and years.

you say this, yet you ignore what is causing an actual, material downfall of Japan and it's stagnating economy.

what the fuck is your problem?

 

[shaki123]

you say this, yet you ignore what is causing an actual, material downfall of Japan and it's stagnating economy.

what the fuck is your problem?

What I say here is factual. Whether you like it or not, that's your problem. My problem is one that I share with the vast majority of Dutch citizens. We don't want or need anymore immigration. Enough is enough. We have no more room. Even if we did, there is no return of investment as history has shown time and time again.

Let the (Islamic) countries in the region help their neighbours. Real refugees can go there. Economical refugees have no place (t)here anyway. Enough is enough.

 

[trembli0s]

you say this, yet you ignore what is causing an actual, material downfall of Japan and it's stagnating economy.

what the fuck is your problem?

What does that have to do with price of butter?

Japan's inept immigration problems is neither here nor now.

 

[Mendrox]

Friends and helper in Munich of mine say that they are annoyed to hell now because of the trains and the many people here in Hamburg are many too (many almost in my reach at the train station in Harburg and people are afraid because of crime o.o) also the helpers are too few and many took vacation to help them but they get fewer each day... I dont think that this will go without accidents :\

 

[MurkyZebra2417]

13000 refugees on one single starion in ONE day? Wow.

Yeah, and the USA wants to take in a whole lot of 10000 Syrians in 2016....
Now compare Population And try to keep a straight face.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I'd like to set up quotas regarding the demographics that we're letting into our country, atleast 70% have to be women, children and elderly, the remaining amount can be young men.

What if the quota system meant splitting up families?

Not sure it's workable to say let's accept the majority of women and children but not their husbands/fathers.

 

[Chittagong]

EU is colossally fucked. First the collapse of the common currency dream due to unwillingness to surrender monetary policy to the federation, and now collapse of Schengen due to unwillingness to surrender immigration policy to the federation.

We'll look back in 20 years and scratch our heads wondering how the utopia got as far as it did in a group of nations so diverse.

 

[PeregrinSe7en]

What I say here is factual. Whether you like it or not, that's your problem. My problem is one that I share with the vast majority of Dutch citizens. We don't want or need anymore immigration. Enough is enough. We have no more room. Even if we did, there is no return of investment as history has shown time and time again.

Let the (Islamic) countries in the region help their neighbours. Real refugees can go there. Economical refugees have no place (t)here anyway. Enough is enough.

as much as it sucks to say this, you have the right to feel this way.

you can only give so much and shouldnt be labeled as guilty if you cant take in any more outsiders.

netherlands should be for the dutch first, and if you can provide some shelter for the less fortunate, more power to you, but not at the expense of your economy and livelihood (somewhat)

 

[Miles Quaritch]

EU is colossally fucked. First the collapse of the common currency dream due to unwillingness to surrender monetary policy to the federation, and now collapse of Schengen due to unwillingness to surrender immigration policy to the federation.

We'll look back in 20 years and scratch our heads wondering how the utopia got as far as it did in a group of nations so diverse.

Schenen collapsing would pretty much be the end of the EU as we currently know it. The Euro will probably keep countries aligned, but the whole concept of free movement across the EU does feel like it's going to be unworkable. The unrest in the Mid East isn't going to settle down any time soon, there's a bigger chance of it spreading than it going to back to a state of peace.

 

[Chittagong]

Schenen collapsing would pretty much be the end of the EU as we currently know it. The Euro will probably keep countries aligned, but the whole concept of free movement across the EU does feel like it's going to be unworkable. The unrest in the Mid East isn't going to settle down any time soon, there's a bigger chance of it spreading than it going to back to a state of peace.

Looking back at the mess America left behind in Middle-East, and the fuel Russia added to the fire, it's incredible how they managed to neuter EU from emerging as a world power. Of course we had our own problems here as well, but this certainly seems like the last straw.

 

[old]

I'll be surprised if these temporary measures remain temporary.

 

[Gintamen]

Russia has been one of the biggest roadblocks with regard to Syria. Now Russia is massing troops and equipment that is set to directly target US and European military force inside Syria to continue the crisis. This entire Crisis is a goose laying golden eggs for Russia as it does destabilize the EU

Ahahaha, what is this mess? Russia [and Iran] are the only hope there right now. It's those u.s. and european military weapons, not sure what forces you are talking about[european salafists maybe?], that are used by terrorists and force people to flee.

 

[Purkake4]

The UK isn't in Schengen yet we have no limits on EU citizens entering.

How is this related at all? UK has border controls, but follows the basic EU principle of free movement of labour (applying to EU citizens only).

 

[Devil]

Way too much fatalism in here caused by this news.

@shaki123:
As I said, geez, inform yourself on the matter. The vast majority of refugees coming from Syria to Germany right now are NOT economical refugees. Stop stating that this is a fact. Most REAL economical refugees coming to Germany right now are from Albania and we're in a process to quicken the process to send them back, which is absolutely correct, especially in the current situation.

Friends and helper in Munich of mine say that they are annoyed to hell now because of the trains and the many people here in Hamburg are many too (many almost in my reach at the train station in Harburg and people are afraid because of crime o.o) also the helpers are too few and many took vacation to help them but they get fewer each day... I dont think that this will go without accidents :\

The problem is that German politics reacted way too slow to offer state help. Most of the good news about German welcoming-culture stems from the incredible work of volunteers.

 

[thesuperfunk]

What a messy situation. :|

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

I think economic refugees should not be allowed or allowed in a VERY limited capacity. There's probably hundreds of millions of people all around the world who could claim economic refugee status, that doesn't mean nations should accept them. Especially when people whose lives are in danger aka asylum seekers need it more.

 

[ClosingADoor]

What if the quota system meant splitting up families?

Not sure it's workable to say let's accept the majority of women and children but not their husbands/fathers.

Isn't this happening right now? With the fathers and husbands coming over alone with some hope of getting their families over later.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

I'd like to set up quotas regarding the demographics that we're letting into our country, atleast 70% have to be women, children and elderly, the remaining amount can be young men.

So middle-aged men can fuck off then?

The thing about families is that they often come with fathers and / or husbands.

 

[YoungFa]

I think economic refugees should not be allowed or allowed in a VERY limited capacity. There's probably hundreds of millions of people all around the world who could claim economic refugee status, that doesn't mean nations should accept them. Especially when people whose lives are in danger aka asylum seekers need it more.

They shouldnt alone for the reason, that if they can afford and organize the trip, they should use the money and energy to rebuild their own economy and not flee from it.

 

[PodcastFips]

I think economic refugees should not be allowed or allowed in a VERY limited capacity. There's probably hundreds of millions of people all around the world who could claim economic refugee status, that doesn't mean nations should accept them. Especially when people whose lives are in danger aka asylum seekers need it more.

That is what most people can agree on, but you cannot immediately tell if someone is an economical refugee or not. Everyone has the right to claim asylum, everything that happens afterwards is a whole other story.

 

[Devil]

I think economic refugees should not be allowed or allowed in a VERY limited capacity. There's probably hundreds of millions of people all around the world who could claim economic refugee status, that doesn't mean nations should accept them. Especially when people whose lives are in danger aka asylum seekers need it more.

What has this news to do with economic refugees, though? There has been an increase of those from eastern Europe this year, yes, but that's nor what this crisis is about or why Munich is doing border checks. Economic refugees are already rarely accepted in Germany right now, due the many people coming from Syria right now, who are in actual need of help.

 

[Lime]

People need to stop the fear mongering and apocalyptic thinking. Keep the heads cool and make rational decisions instead of "oh woe Europe is collapsing and we can't take any (middle eastern) refugees because our societal systems will malfunction by the sheer weight of it all"

While everyone's pointing fingers and blaming each other like some sort of Council of Elrond, I'm mostly thinking however the fuck the situation in the Middle East is going to get better. Syria is completely fucked. Afghanistan unstable as shit. Iraq is hell. And now Yemen is getting its shit handed to them by Saudi Arabia. Libya is in turmoil and lawless. Pakistan isn't looking too good either and the neighboring countries to Syria are buckling from all the refugees.

 

[Sakujou]

What I say here is factual. Whether you like it or not, that's your problem. My problem is one that I share with the vast majority of Dutch citizens. We don't want or need anymore immigration. Enough is enough. We have no more room. Even if we did, there is no return of investment as history has shown time and time again.

Let the (Islamic) countries in the region help their neighbours. Real refugees can go there. Economical refugees have no place (t)here anyway. Enough is enough.

so for my understanding, even the well integrated people originally from other countries who have lived their whole life in the netherlands.... even them, who speak perfect dutch arent welcome to you? what kind of threat are they to you?
i can see you point if your afraid of people with darker skin or another religion, if they are friendly and not disturbing the public, where is the problem?

i hate people hitting the dole or demanding islamic rules in for the german public, but
but other than that i dont see your point.

Russia has been one of the biggest roadblocks with regard to Syria. Now Russia is massing troops and equipment that is set to directly target US and European military force inside Syria to continue the crisis. This entire Crisis is a goose laying golden eggs for Russia as it does destabilize the EU

no. i think russia plays a whole another role here. they are playing something different in the middle east. there were tons of different groups in libya and syria fighting for different reasons.

assad or gadaffi had reasons to supress them. i dont think these people fighting against those dictators were interested in "democracy".

have a look at egypt. muslim brotherhood and the same shitty outcome is in libya and syria... sort of... since the IS is doing business down there.

russia wants to kill down the IS but together with assad. they arent interested in bringing peace to that country, only trying to sell of their load of weapons as well as trying to support one side of the coin. understandable, if you ask me.

damn

its probably why czech rep. and other eastern euro countries dont wanna take in refugees

they dont even have foreigners at all. were is the problem of taking a couple of refugees in?

cheap labour in the first place, or highly educated peeps on the other hand!

 

[pulsemyne]

Germany just needs some time to deal with the big influx of people. It's not like they are permanently giving up on the idea of open borders etc. I cannot help laughing at people crying it's the end of the EU etc. No it isn't.

 

[spidye]

Most of them travel through rich countries (europe) while making selfies. They eventually end up in the country who will give them what they want (holland, germany etc). Most of the refugees are fleeing because of economical reasons. Sorry, but these people shouldnt be let in whatsoever. Full is full.

do you really believe this bullshit or do you just repeat uninformed and dumb comments like a parrot

even if they have smartphones with a front camera how is this relevant argument. just because they're not dressed like from the 18th century doesn't mean they're not from a war ridden country

and please I want some sources on how you came to the conclusion 'Most of the refugees are fleeing because of economical reasons.'

We've only given weapons to Kurds to defend themselves.
The revolution has grown into a proxy war between Iran/Russia and Turkey/Jordan/Gulf states. The fact that "western world" (in the company of the whole world, with the exception of pariah states like Russia) welcomed protests and revolutions against dictators now means that the whole proxy war that is taking place there right now is our fault? What a bunch of bull shit.
At least Turkey and Jordan do help, but the fact that neither Russia, nor U.S. (because you can at least pin Iraq war on them) do nothing or barely anything to solve the refugee crisis is what you should be on about. Gulf states should be in anyone's shit list already, so no reason mentioning them here.

the fact that germany sent weapons and chemicals to syria's regime means they're at fault too
http://www.handelsblatt.com/politik...en-material-fuer-giftgasprogramm/9635496.html

 

[Chittagong]

Of course, there is a fair chance of this being carefully orchestrated theatre to brute force through two widely opposed institutions required to turn EU into a federation - joint border control and 'solidaric' assignment of immigrants with quotas decided on EU level, bypassing national governments:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/09/13/uk-europe-migrants-idUKKCN0RD0PC20150913

 

[SURGEdude]

If this is the end result of doing nothing about Syria when it caved in on itself then we need to reconsider isolationist policy.

To be fair when it comes to the Middle East you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. If the west intervenes they get blamed for everything that can possibly be pinned on them. But if they don't step in they are called heartless and hypocritical.

 

[Lime]

To be fair when it comes to the Middle East you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. If the west intervenes they get blamed for everything that can possibly be pinned on them. But if they don't step in they are called heartless and hypocritical.

When countries have been meddling and fucking them up several times over an entire century, of course those countries will get called out for being heartless and inconsiderate.

Israel in the 40's. Iran in the 60's. Afghanistan in the 80's. Iraq in the 80's and 90's. The Gulf War in 1991. Afghanistan in 2001. Iraq in 2003. Libya recently.

But I totally agree that it's a hot mess right now and I've no idea how all the shit that's going on can be fixed.

 

[Mrmartel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM-wxU86v8g#t=40 (NSFW) btw, some boobs are shown.

Femen, the same group that has done various stunts around Europe and Russia. This is some sort of Islamic conference.

This just happened recently in France. I put the video in this thread to make a point about this culture mash up happening in Europe. In particular the extreme progressive attitudes in Europe countered by a much more conservative brand of Islam, or even sub Saharan Christianity.

I think the reaction if they did this in a catholic or even "extreme right wing" conference would be much tamer. A gentle but forceful guiding towards the doors perhaps.

As you can see in the video, some men from the crowd literally kicked the shit out of these (or one) women.

 

[Carl2291]

Surprised it took them so long.

 

[Chittagong]

To be fair when it comes to the Middle East you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. If the west intervenes they get blamed for everything that can possibly be pinned on them. But if they don't step in they are called heartless and hypocritical.

Middle East is now going through the crisis Christianity battled with in the last few hundred years leading into the establishment of ecumenism in early 1900s. The different factions of Islam will torch each other until they eventually come to accept each other. The added complexity Middle-East has is the strong mismatch of the tribal society and the national states. The tribes overpower the nation states, and use religion as a tool for it.

Thus, the current crisis will keep going until everything is burned to ash, and everyone have fled or been killed. With Africa not being a direction anyone wants to flee to, and the neighbouring Arab states remain tightly shut, the only way is Europe. And unfortunately Europe can't provide for all of Middle-East. Thus, there will be a common border control, and a top-down immigration system. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how Europe is turned into a federation.

Or something along those lines.

 

[trembli0s]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM-wxU86v8g#t=40 (NSFW) btw, some boobs are shown.

Femen, the same group that has done various stunts around Europe and Russia.

This just happened recently in France. I put the video in this thread to make a point about this culture mash up happening in Europe. In particular the extreme progressive attitudes in Europe countered by a much more conservative brand of Islam, or even sub Saharan Christianity.

I think the reaction if they did this in a catholic or even "extreme right wing" conference would be much tamer. A gentle but forceful guiding towards the doors perhaps.

As you can see in the video, some men from the crowd literally kicked the shit out of these (or one) women.

Were they kicking that girl off camera behind the stage?

For the person mentioning Russia as anything other than an instigator in this, they are absolutely loving this.

Russia would love nothing more than to drive a stake through the heart of the EU and NATO. Fomenting a humanitarian crisis to cause European policy to veer right amid understandable misgivings by native Europeans is the easiest way to destabilize the region. All Putin has to do is provide materiel and money to Assad and sit back and watch the rest unfold.

 

[Mrmartel]

Were they kicking that girl off camera behind the stage?

For the person mentioning Russia as anything other than an instigator in this, they are absolutely loving this.

Russia would love nothing more than to drive a stake through the heart of the EU and NATO. Fomenting a humanitarian crisis to cause European policy to veer right amid understandable misgivings by native Europeans is the easiest way to destabilize the region. All Putin has to do is provide materiel and money to Assad and sit back and watch the rest unfold.

It looks like it started on stage, then they got her behind the curtains, who knows how far they took it.

 

[SURGEdude]

When countries have been meddling and fucking them up several times over an entire century, of course those countries will get called out for being heartless and inconsiderate.

Israel in the 40's. Iran in the 60's. Afghanistan in the 80's. Iraq in the 80's and 90's. The Gulf War in 1991. Afghanistan in 2001. Iraq in 2003. Libya recently.

But I totally agree that it's a hot mess right now and I've no idea how all the shit that's going on can be fixed.

Everything you said is true and I certainly agree we can't ignore the impact we've had in helping destabilize the region. I was just pointing out that it's a very difficult decision on determining how to approach fixing the problems that exist.

 

[Kurdel]

As you can see in the video, some men from the crowd literally kicked the shit out of these (or one) women.

Holy shit that video is gross.

 

[SURGEdude]

Were they kicking that girl off camera behind the stage?

For the person mentioning Russia as anything other than an instigator in this, they are absolutely loving this.

Russia would love nothing more than to drive a stake through the heart of the EU and NATO. Fomenting a humanitarian crisis to cause European policy to veer right amid understandable misgivings by native Europeans is the easiest way to destabilize the region. All Putin has to do is provide materiel and money to Assad and sit back and watch the rest unfold.

Putin has been masterful at playing the west like a fiddle. And while his economy is in shambles the people love him so he's politically untouchable. Being a well versed sociopath who can manipulate his people with impunity has a great track record against progressive democratic opponents.

 

[Chittagong]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM-wxU86v8g#t=40 (NSFW) btw, some boobs are shown.

Femen, the same group that has done various stunts around Europe and Russia.

This just happened recently in France. I put the video in this thread to make a point about this culture mash up happening in Europe. In particular the extreme progressive attitudes in Europe countered by a much more conservative brand of Islam, or even sub Saharan Christianity.

I think the reaction if they did this in a catholic or even "extreme right wing" conference would be much tamer. A gentle but forceful guiding towards the doors perhaps.

As you can see in the video, some men from the crowd literally kicked the shit out of these (or one) women.

Some context

According to Inna Shevchenko, a spokeswoman for the feminist protest group, two fundamentalist preachers were discussing the question of “whether wives should be beaten or not” when the activists, aged 25 and 31, ripped off their Arab-style cloaks and jumped on to the stage on Saturday evening. One had the slogan “No one subjugates me” inked across her torso. The other bore the words “I am my own prophet.”

Twitter posts called for the protesters to be stoned or collectively raped.
On Facebook, the conference organisers urged Muslims to “stand together” and attend the final day of the event on Sunday. They said it was “the victim of an anti-Muslim media frenzy.”

With the growing influx of people, Europe will have hell of a time deciding whether we accept that Muslims in Europe maintain their own culture when it goes against core European values and laws - issues such as treatment of women, anti-gay, domestic violence and such.

If a clear stance is not taken, and we leave the decision until later when the Muslim population will be much more significant part of the population, we risk having a full blown civil war on European soil.

 

[Lime]

Everything you said is true and I certainly agree we can't ignore the impact we've had in helping destabilize the region. I was just pointing out that it's a very difficult decision on determining how to approach fixing the problems that exist.

Totally true. I wish there was something to do. Thankless multilateral diplomatic work for years is probably the best course of action.

 

[Mrmartel]

Some context





With the growing influx of people, Europe will have hell of a time deciding whether we accept that Muslims in Europe maintain their own culture when it goes against core European values and laws - issues such as treatment of women, anti-gay, domestic violence and such.

If a clear stance is not taken, and we leave the decision until later when the Muslim population will be much more significant part of the population, we risk having a full blown civil war on European soil.

Whether wives should be beaten or not?

Where in Sweden, Germany etc. when people want an honest talk about limiting Immigration are immediately labeled Nazi's. Nevermind allowing a conference on such things.

I've said it before but decades of the Left/liberals/progressives shouting and shutting down moderate voices on immigration has only contributed to a large number of Europeans rightfully not feeling like they are being heard and even silenced. If they ever wanted to work again or not be an outcast in society, that is.

The only groups that are leftover who want to tackle this issue are even more extreme. They are the creators of the very parties they accused the moderates of being in the 60s onwards to the early 00s.

 

[Toro]

General support of immigration does not necessitate personal housing, nor does disagreement with this decision by the German government. I'm German and it is my good right to fundamentally disagree with it.

Are you voting for "Die Linke" or "Die Grünen"?

 

[mantidor]

I do feel Germany was kind of naive in opening its gates so widely at the beginning.

As much as we would like to live in a perfect world, you cannot just take in 800K + people and don't have all kind of issues, and they go beyond just shelter and food.