Strangelove77
Member
The B&B unit in MGS4. If you point the camera at them, shit gets weird fast.
Jimquisition (September 14th, 2015) - A Quiet Conversation
- Thread starter L~A
- Start date
Her arc does at no point make sense.
I agree if you're only talking about MGSV, but the other MGS games had lots of humor in their story.
Then I think you are fine in watching it.
This has to be a parody post as someone with a Metal gear avatar should know the games better, but in case it isn't I'm just going to counter this one line with:
You've only seen Eva like that when you either bought the game or watched the TGS trailer, in no other footage do you see that waterfall scene with her, so you can't really say Eva was a selling point for this game.
Vlaphor
Member
Doesn't seem to have hurt sales either. Honestly, I don't think Quiet was put in to increase sales (though I did buy the figure a little while ago), but because that's what Kojima wanted in his game.
Dick Justice
Banned
This has to be a parody post as someone with a Metal gear avatar should know the games better, but in case it isn't I'm just going to counter this one line with:
Uses her sexuality to seduce the protagonist and screw him over by taking the macguffin and riding off into the sunset. Bit of a difference between her and Quiet.
I don't think I can quite agree with what he said about Quantic Dream's sex scenes or even BioWare's sex scenes (though neither handles them perfectly, of course) but, without having played MGSV and going just off of what I've read about and seen of it online, I do agree with what he said about Quiet's character design. Designing sexualised characters isn't wrong in and of itself in a game that doesn't take itself too seriously (though I do have to say I wish there were more male equivalents) but trying to pass it off as something else feels a little shitty.
Everyone's? I have never understood why there needs to be one, "superior & correct", OPINION on something that everyone then has to adapt as theirs.
TheVoidDragon
Member
The "breathing through her skin" has a very briefly mentioned story reason for it, although it does feel forced in really. It's still stupid and there's no excuse for her to wear so little but there's a slight bit more to the breathing thing than "she it does just because". Regardless of that it's still a pathetic reason for her being like that and it doesn't make it any better.
Dick Justice
Banned
I just posted this in the spoiler thread but i feel like it belongs here too.
I'm surprised not even Jim Sterling seems to understand this. It doesn't matter if you like the character, story and his/her design or not, in the end it's all about sales. How good this project sells, nothing else matters for those companies.
I think the reason why Quiet looks the way she looks is because of sales. Just look at it:
MGS3's The Boss - One of the best females in gaming, doesn't show much skin until the end > sales around 3.6M
MGS4's B&B Unit - more sexualized with skin thin outfits etc. > sales around 6M.
MGSV's Quiet - lots of boob shots, most skin a female MGS character has ever shown etc. > sales in the first few days already over 3M.
I really think Kojima and company thought about sales when they designed Quiet, maybe they blaimed MGS3's low sales (compared to other MGS games) on The Boss not showing enough skin.
I mean Kojima even says so himself.
Correlation does not equal causation. MGS2 sold more than MGS1, yet MGS1 had Meryl appear in her underwear and a tanktop, while MGS2 didn't have anywhere near as much bullshit (Fortune's outfit doesn't count, as she's not even a particularly sexualized character).
Arthr2ShdsJcksn
Banned
Your right. The only time for criticism is within the first 72 hours after release, otherwise it isn't valid.
Smooth Operator
Member
Funny that no one talked about Olga in MGS2. It's a great character.
That's Jim's whole point. It might as well been "she does it just because" because of how fucking dumb the whole reasoning is.
A lot of that type of stuff happens to Snake/Raiden/Boss and I don't think thier characters are undermined for it. Raiden in particular had to get bailed out by Snake, got captured, put in a skin tight outfit and had about a 10 minute nude scene where he ran around with his hands over his genitals. Didn't stop him from being a good 3 dimensional character and I'll argue Meryl's issues didn't either.
Eh you can't really compare MGS1's sales to MGS2.
Rockandrollclown
lookwhatyou'vedone
As someone who is almost never bothered by this kind of stuff. I eyerolled pretty hard when they went through the whole explanation why she dresses how she does. Paired with her not speaking, seemed pretty cringeworthy.
This has to be a parody post as someone with a Metal gear avatar should know the games better, but in case it isn't I'm just going to counter this one line with:
Massive difference between Eva and Quiet, and MGS3 vs MGSV. Eva's character leans into her sexuality. Her and Snake have a sexual relationship. She plays her role like a Bond girl, something which MGS3 takes a lot of cues from, including its main theme etc. And even then, MGS3 is far cheekier and silly in its overall tone than MGSV, so this stuff isn't left feeling out of place.
Quiet is objectification for objectification's sake, just doing shit and rolling around in the rain because... reasons. And tries to jump between this kind of fluff and still presenting a scene where Quiet is going to be
sexually assaulted.
I actually said I just about let her off for that in earlier post (though i still think Big Boss would be dumb to fall for that).
Guys pay attention to what I was countering with my post. I was referencing the dumb point that MGS3 didnt sell well because it lacked boobs so Kojima added more.
Its weird folks mention mgs4 because in mgs4 while yes merryl is cool. It still featured the ... What in godsname were those ladies names, that you fought as snake who's tragic backstories were completely undermined because the game turns them into litteral objects to oggle. Also iirc they made weird orgasm noises.
This is also super weird because 1 game ago he made the boss. What's the pipeline for that?
This is also super weird because 1 game ago he made the boss. What's the pipeline for that?
Red Mage
Member
As someone who doesn't play the MGS games, I thought Kojima was known for doing things to screw with the fan base? I mean, he stuck a naked pretty boy in the second Solid game, after all. I'm not saying that he didn't do it to sell figures or because he's a bit pervy, but I could also see him deciding to do it to piss off the fans a bit.
Dick Justice
Banned
Why not? Because it doesn't fit the narrative of more sex = more sales?
Speaking of, 3 had more sexuality than 2, yet sold less. But you can't compare them, right?
2
3
One was played up for comedic value the other for sexual arousment. There are some key differences in the portrayal in these instances. It also ignores the larger meta context of female objectification beyond this one game and how just that immediately server as being able to undermine her.
No because MGS1 was the first game in the series.
That's like saying why didn't Uncharted 1 sold more than Uncharted 2.
The older a series gets the more people know about it and understand the brilliance that was MGS1, so more people were hyped for the sequel.
Hellwarden
Member
I don't mind fanservice in a lot of games. Hell I flatout enjoy it in many.
But fanservice in the MGS series is often terrible. Because MGS often tries to play its fanservice straight, particularly more in recent games, rather than admit what it is, fanservice. Fanservice pretending that it isn't fanservice is always the worst kind.
Quiet, like every character in MGSV is critically underwritten. They could have maybe come up with a silly and intelligent reason for her dress, but they didn't. As such the inherent sillyness of the fanservice contrasts so sharply with the seriousness of the actual character that it doesn't even come off as fanservice.
It comes off both weird and offputting.
But fanservice in the MGS series is often terrible. Because MGS often tries to play its fanservice straight, particularly more in recent games, rather than admit what it is, fanservice. Fanservice pretending that it isn't fanservice is always the worst kind.
Quiet, like every character in MGSV is critically underwritten. They could have maybe come up with a silly and intelligent reason for her dress, but they didn't. As such the inherent sillyness of the fanservice contrasts so sharply with the seriousness of the actual character that it doesn't even come off as fanservice.
It comes off both weird and offputting.
That's more for comedic relief & at no point in the game does it gawk over every inch of Raiden's ass cheeks & cock or put him into sexy poses and then direct the camera to focus on his "assets".
Glitchesarecool
Member
Replacing her model with Ocelot's is one of the best decisions to make. It's a damn shame her normal outfits aren't unlocked until very late in the game.
Tizoc
Member
That sounds like a rip-off of Oneechanbara, where the protag is fighting in a bikini because she absorbs the blood of the monsters she slays through her skin.
That goes back to my point literally about how Kojima has done this in every single game.
Besides I was more so talking about the point of her wing a "damsel in distress"
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Reminds me of the Zero Punctuation review of Ground Zeroes when he briefly mentions MGS4.
"Metal Gear, why are all these emotionally traumatized women thrusting their butts at the screen?"
"Dur, I'm sorry. Looking at bums makes my willy feel nice..."
"Metal Gear, why are all these emotionally traumatized women thrusting their butts at the screen?"
"Dur, I'm sorry. Looking at bums makes my willy feel nice..."
Dick Justice
Banned
So the point is, sex is not the main factor when it comes to sales for this series. Saying that the BB unit in 4 was the reason it sold so much is disingenuous at best. Same with Quiet in V.
RpgN
Junior Member
The humour in previous games' stories was usually brief and they are usually related to characters that appear again in the next Metal Gear Solid games.
Although when I mentioned jokes, I meant as in jokes such as finding pictures of women in lockers or magazines. Those are optional and can be ignored. It's difficult to ignore objectification in MGS5.
What's also odd is that MGS5 tries to be the most serious MGS game. Previous ones were a little bit more lighthearted despite having their own share of serious themes. Somehow Kojima thought objectification would fit with the very serious tone the game has.
What about the camera intentionally focusing on ishmeals ass in the hallway scene in MGSV.
All most people are saying is this series has been known to put its characters both male and female into very odd and suggestive sexual situations.
I can already tell how many people didn't play Peace Walker in this thread lol
akidnamededdy
Banned
Eva was effective use of sex appeal to tell a story
Quiet was effective use of motion capture tech to give Kojima something to jerk it to
She had a semi-compelling arc that they could've really hit out of the park but fuck it let's have her dance in the rain and rub her titties and shit.
Quiet was effective use of motion capture tech to give Kojima something to jerk it to
She had a semi-compelling arc that they could've really hit out of the park but fuck it let's have her dance in the rain and rub her titties and shit.
Tomeru
Member
Looking at video games, movies and whatnot, I just can't understand why this isgetting somuch flak. We know the reason for her apearance. Its a made up reason for a video game with super human enemies. Yet we cant accept that reason because she is almost butt naked?
The problem is not her or Kojima. Its the same dudes who think this is wrong because reasons. If someone looks at her and sees only tits, that is what he chooses to be. We can all be grown ups about it and choose to abide by the reasons for her outfit in this here Video Game.
The problem is not her or Kojima. Its the same dudes who think this is wrong because reasons. If someone looks at her and sees only tits, that is what he chooses to be. We can all be grown ups about it and choose to abide by the reasons for her outfit in this here Video Game.
TC McQueen
Member
Man, just imagine if Kojima had the bikini Quiet design as the unlock and an XOF style one as the default. Nobody would've given a fuck.
That said, I hope there's a PC/save game mod that lets you unlock the XOF outfit early (or if there isn't one right now, that someone will make it soon).
That said, I hope there's a PC/save game mod that lets you unlock the XOF outfit early (or if there isn't one right now, that someone will make it soon).
Like i said they probably looked at MGS3's sales and thought to themselves what went wrong there, then they compared it to MGS4's sales and probably think it had something to do with the B&B Unit.
I mean Kojima even said it: "The initial target is to sell well". That's why Quiet is designed that way.
Btw. you can't really say MGS3 is more sexualizied than MGS2 because The Boss doesn't show much skin until the very end and Eva just plays her role.
But the B&B Unit in MGS4 had no reason to act and look like that, that's why they probably thought just make an even sexier character and make her story even sillier because MGS4 sold so well.
Dick Justice
Banned
Uhh, you can say that because it is. The justification for it in 3 does not mean that it isn't more prominent than in 2.
If you want to compare it to the series' history of sexualising both male and female protagonists, MGSV's treatment of Quiet actually looks worse. While the fetishistic portrayal of Paz in Peace Walker was fairly tacky, for example, at least there were attempts to provide similar scenes with Kaz / Big Boss. V lacking anything similar is only more apparent due to how enthusiastically it exploits its one female lead.
Ploid 3.0
Member
Yep, I almost expect her to be naked turning cartwheels going by the outrage. I kinda wish there was a Raiden moment for a guy character. but who would it be? Naked Snake perhaps.
And again, not to this degree. Eva might have a somewhat revealing outfit, but that had at least a somewhat good story reason (seduction of a man) and her breasts and ass are not constantly the focus of the camera nor does she perform an awkward striptease-ish dance or shove her ass & titties at Snake's face/the camera all the time. Spying Meryl in MGS1 is an easter egg at best and, again, nowhere near the level of titillation Quiet is used as. MGS2 doesn't have anything of the sort done to its female characters that I can remember (and no, Raiden's treatment is in no way comparable, nor is Vamp a similarly objectified character).
MGS4 might have something, but I haven't played it for more than a few hours so I can't comment on that.
Saucycarpdog
Member
My beef is that a lot of the defenders of her design model said her character would probably be well developed because kojima wouldn't be that juvenile.
Well after completing the game, imo, her character was hardly ever developed. She was always in suggestive poses and you learned nearly nothing about her back story besides what wasn't already obvious. She just misses the exact definition of eye candy.
Well after completing the game, imo, her character was hardly ever developed. She was always in suggestive poses and you learned nearly nothing about her back story besides what wasn't already obvious. She just misses the exact definition of eye candy.
Just something I noticed. None of the characters in the game really react to her lack of clothing or sexual poses.
Raiden was designed specifically to appeal to female players at Kojima's own confession, even if you dismiss the nude scene as comedy he was still shoved into a tight form fitting outfit so he'd be attractive to the females he was targeting with the character.
Honestly it seems like you're trying to bring in outside arguments separate from her characterization to give yourself an argument. She is sexualized, but so are the male leads in the series, she is put in distress but so are the male leads and on top of that she's a rookie solder unlike the veteran soldiers who get captured are tortured every game.
I don't see anyway she's presented to be less of a character than Snake, Jack or Boss and if you really feel otherwise I'd like an explanation using her characterization rather than you just dismissing my arguments because of outside reasons.
Newtype-001
Member
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