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[Armaros]

Don't beat around the bush, you would like to see less Quiets in gaming. You're being disingenuous if you claim otherwise.

Or we can call for sexy characters that aren't as blatantly one dimension and pure eye candy.

Unless your only two options are

A. Leave it as it is.
B. Completely remove it.

But that actually requires a conversation, and not the standard "EVERYTHING IS FINE, IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, JUST GO AWAY"

 

[phanphare]

lol, the Bill Trinen clip


also spot on Jim. I wasn't even aware that such a stupid rationalization for her appearance existed.

 

[Doctor Ironic]

Don't beat around the bush, you would like to see less Quiets in gaming. You're being disingenuous if you claim otherwise.

Why yes, I would love to see less of a thing that is dumb and bad.

 

[The Technomancer]

No, Criticism is criticism and we are free to engage in it for whatever we want.

But trying to pretend like criticism isn't an attempt to influence is just as disingenuous.

If people pretend that its only because other people try to act like criticism around sexualization is somehow different and more pernicious than all of the other criticism that permeates all discussion of the medium

 

[Ploid 3.0]

It reduces women to something, almost literally, that should be seen and not heard. It may be fictional, but it doesn't mean it doesn't make a statement about how women are 'seen' in some lights as something to be ogled. Sexy isn't a bad thing, and hey I like a good-looking dude as much as a good-looking women; but you can't tell me Quiet wasn't designed to be lustful looking and to be lusted at in one of the most transparent designs and some of the most silly camera/cinematics to focus on that.

Of course it's demeaning. Just because it's fiction, doesn't mean it doesn't reveal anything.... especially with how upset men get when you try to take their 'sexy women' (or the enjoyment of it) away from them.

Shouldn't that be, "It reduces that character to something seen and not heard?" Hey I would prefer a close long time buddy of Big Boss to have that situation where they can't talk due to a injury (phantom voice), and spoke through, mannerisms, sign language, or morse code. It would be pretty interesting maybe, but it would have to be someone that isn't in the future Metal Gear games, unless they are given a voice via nano machines, or some crazy tech. From the sounds of it Big Boss doesn't talk much (expensive voice actor?).

Women talk a lot as well as men in the past MGS games. A lot of Metal gear is happening because of the words of The Boss, aka Voyevoda, aka The Joy, aka Mercury Lady. Is there no women talking in this game? I honestly don't know, just now thinking about it, I just watched youtube videos for cutscenes. However I do know mother base can have women solders and they talk, like the men soldiers, when you speak to them and such now that I think about it. Are there any other women characters outside of the nurses and Quiet? (spoiler tag it maybe)

 

[Mesoian]

Why yes, I would love to see less of a thing that is dumb and bad.

Or just make it smarter.

Why does sexualized characterization and titilation have to be inherently stupid? Why does sexy end at a pair of tits being shoved in our faces opposed to making a character who actually seems like she knows what to do with her sexuality?

I want less Quiet and more Fujiko Mine.

 

[Sou Da]

I can't believe some of you guys are actually acting like Quiet is the be all end all of scantily clad women in video games and that this is an attack on the presence of semi nude women in games.

 

[Burger]

The only thing I'll say about this (despite reading and watching a lot of commentary about it) is that I literally could not care less. I don't mind titilating content in games, books, comics, movies, tv. I don't even mind it being gratuitious.

You may complain that it's stupid, or that it doesn't fit the character, or that the justification doesn't make sense, whatever. But in the context of zombie people, superhuman "Parasites", a badguy named "Skullface", a man on fire that can absorb bullets and an opening that features a flaming whale eating a helicopter in Greece I would argue that a sniper wearing a bikini that has the power of invisibilty fits in perfectly well.

 

[Mesoian]

Shouldn't that be, "It reduces that character to something seen and not heard?" Hey I would prefer a close long time buddy of Big Boss to have that situation where they can't talk due to a injury (phantom voice), and spoke through, mannerisms, sign language, or morse code. It would be pretty interesting maybe, but it would have to be someone that isn't in the future Metal Gear games, unless they are given a voice via nano machines, or some crazy tech. From the sounds of it Big Boss doesn't talk much (expensive voice actor?).

Women talk a lot as well as men in the past MGS games. A lot of Metal gear is happening because of the words of The Boss, aka Voyevoda, aka The Joy, aka Mercury Lady. Is there no women talking in this game? I honestly don't know, just now thinking about it, I just watched youtube videos for cutscenes. However I do know mother base can have women solders and they talk, like the men soldiers, when you speak to them and such now that I think about it. Are there any other women characters outside of the nurses and Quiet? (spoiler tag it maybe)

I mean, spoilers:

Spoiler

When you find out that Quiet can talk, can talk in a manner that won't compromise outer heaven, and has people in outer heaven who can understand her and openly communicate with her, and she just doesn't talk because she doesn't want to, it really undermines the actual act of sacrifice she says she's undertaking. "I didn't choose this vow of silence..." YES YOU FUCKING DID!

 

[Karkador]

I think the implication he's making though is people calling out against it are doing so with the intent of it being done less and/or not at all, and thus by proxy essentially stating it "should not" be allowed. Are they outright calling for a boycott/removal? No. But the end results would arguably be the same.

Like, why call out something stupid publicly if for no other reason than to attempt to lessen or remove the stupid thing?

I mean Quiet's design is fucking dumb, people can call it dumb/demeaning all they want, but if no one is saying it's not allowed, then really all the complaining amounts to nothing.

Critiques are a little more nuanced than "this is allowed / this is not allowed". Context matters, and we have two contexts here:

- The context of this character's sexualization being really at odds with what they're trying to go for in the story.

- The context of the videogame medium constantly doing this with female characters

 

[PtM]

Jim burned Kojima so hard he'll have to start breathing through his skin.

Haha!

Any spoilers in this?

Yes.

I can't believe some of you guys are actually acting like Quiet is the be all end all of scantily clad women in video games and that this is an attack on the presence of semi nude women in games.

They're taking away our videogames.

 

[Armaros]

I mean, spoilers:

Spoiler

When you find out that Quiet can talk, can talk in a manner that won't compromise outer heaven, and has people in outer heaven who can understand her and openly communicate with her, and she just doesn't talk because she doesn't want to, it really undermines the actual act of sacrifice she says she's undertaking. "I didn't choose this vow of silence..." YES YOU FUCKING DID!

Spoiler

Really?!?, She walks around as a mute sex object by choice instead of circumstance? which would have been a tiny bit better but still pretty blatant?

Amazing

 

[Fishlake]

It's good that he s being called out in this. The reason was dumb and it destroys her character. I wonder how women who work in armed forces would view this. It would be interesting to just get there opinions on Quiet.


I'm glad that more and more developers are being called out on this because it shows that the gaming medium is maturing.

 

[The Hermit]

2 years ago

hauhauauh

Awesome

 

[Portugeezer]

People are gullible if they actually expected a "good" reason... any reason Kojima could come up with would have been stupid. Although, there are animals that breathe through their skin so it's not some unheard of thing in nature and definitely fits the Metal Gear theme of wackiness (as well as being wank material I guess).

What Jim has issue with is the design, and solely the design.

 

[Mesoian]

The only thing I'll say about this (despite reading and watching a lot of commentary about it) is that I literally could not care less. I don't mind titilating content in games, books, comics, movies, tv. I don't even mind it being gratuitious.

You may complain that it's stupid, or that it doesn't fit the character, or that the justification doesn't make sense, whatever. But in the context of zombie people, superhuman "Parasites", a badguy named "Skullface", a man on fire that can absorb bullets and an opening that features a flaming whale eating a helicopter in Greece I would argue that a sniper wearing a bikini that has the power of invisibility fits in perfectly well.

And you're not wrong. The bigger issue is that Kojima tried to pull a fast one in saying that we would all be ashamed for daring to criticize this stupid lazy design instead of just owning up to it and being like "yeah, she's a bit of eye candy, but I didn't want to lean into it and make it part of her character, it's a bit half assed..."

While the design is stupid and boring, it's more how the narrative lens forces you to ogle her at every given moment where she's on screen that's the egregious thing. "Yes, I understand that she's basically nude, you can stop shaking her tits in my face now. I get it. Oh 2 more hours of this, okay well...whatever..."

 

[Famassu]

I can't believe some of you guys are actually acting like Quiet is the be all end all of scantily clad women in video games and that this is an attack on the presence of semi nude women in games.

No one is acting this way.

 

[ghostjoke]

These day, I find asking Japan to pack to fanservice bullshit in is like asking the tides to turn back. If anime is anything to go by in recent times, the market has spoken and wants titillation (sex sells, even weird 2D sex), and with that I've accepted it's no longer for me (bar Jojo). Going against the demand feels like I'm just asking to endlessly repeat this vicious cycle. I can't feel anything other than *sigh* with the Quiet default costume; here, put on this XOF suit, at least you're (arguably) the most developed character in the game. I was never expecting a good reason for Quiet's appearance, so maybe that's why I'm only "sigh" on the whole thing. The opening level with a dozen close ups of Ishmael's ass made me know where the game was going. At least she had a defined and interesting arc, which is more than most games can do with a character of any gender/race/sexuality.

Disappointing but expected.

 

[Mesoian]

Spoiler

Really?!?, She walks around as a mute sex object by choice instead of circumstance? which would have been a tiny bit better but still pretty blatant?

Amazing

Yes.

Spoiler

The game makes it pretty clear that she has fallen in love with Big Boss to a really unhealthy degree. She stays in the cage because Boss tells her to, she can leave at any time. She doesn't hurt the OH soldiers who physically and mentally abuse her because it would hurt the Boss's position. She let's Kaz torture her because the Boss is okay with it (Ocelot stops that, not the Boss). And she eventually dies/leaves because she compromises herself in a way that will negatively impact the Boss and outer Heaven. She treats her idea of love like a soldier is thought to accept the aspect of duty, which...is actually super interesting and kind of cool. But it also makes what happens to her completely inconsequential because, hey, people speak Navajo. The boss learns 3 languages from the time the game starts to the time it finishes, learning a fourth so you can communicate with your strongest second/the woman who literally worships you would probably be very easy.

MGS5's narrative and plot are easily the worst it's ever been in the series. I'd like to chock that up to Konami fuckery though, it's not like a 3rd of the game isn't missing.

 

[Tomeru]

And "we" aren't the problem just because in the game people don't constantly comment on her ridiculous outfit. It's still meant for titillation for the people playing the game (no matter if not all people are titillated by game content such as this).

Yes, what Kojima did with Quiet is quite brilliant. Imho, if this was some exhibit on someone's art gallery wall, it probably would've been regarded differently. Now you just ask yourself that: If she wore a full on body suit, but stayed the same character, what wouldve been changed for us all?

Common, negelcting a valid explanation as half-assed just because she shows lots of skin is downright juvenile.

 

[toastyToast]

The outfit being the outfit they play the shit out of the titillation aspect. If Quiet wore that garbage outfit for purely functional reasons (lol) at least that'd be something. Instead she's a mute who can't explain herself and instead communicates using her titty meat. "Fuck it" goes a long way. Like you can play Saints Row 3/4 butt naked with a mosaic over your junk but its so stupid its funny. Quiet's appearance doesn't cross the smh threshold into funny territory, not even close.

 

[Mesoian]

Yes, what Kojima did with Quiet is quite brilliant. Imho, if this was some exhibit on someone's art gallery wall, it probably would've been regarded differently. Now you just ask yourself that: If she wore a full on body suit, but stayed the same character, what wouldve been changed for us all?

We probably wouldn't have struggled to consider her to be a serious character quite so much. I made this comparison in the last Quiet thread, but if Willam Dafoe was dressed up as a clown for the entirety of Apocalypse Now, would that movie have had the same gravitas as it does?

Common, negelcting a valid explanation as half-assed just because she shows lots of skin is downright juvenile.

Sure, but it's not really terribly outlandish for people to want more out of a character who's purpose is titillation first, everything second in a series that usually places characterization above all else, for better or worse.

 

[Dick Justice]

Yes, what Kojima did with Quiet is quite brilliant. Imho, if this was some exhibit on someone's art gallery wall, it probably would've been regarded differently. Now you just ask yourself that: If she wore a full on body suit, but stayed the same character, what wouldve been changed for us all?

Common, negelcting a valid explanation as half-assed just because she shows lots of skin is downright juvenile.

It's neglected as half-assed because it is half-assed. If it's valid, why isn't she completely naked? Wouldn't the stockings or bra suffocate her?

 

[Armaros]

It's neglected as half-assed because it is half-assed. If it's valid, why isn't she completely naked? Wouldn't the stockings or bra suffocate her?

The reasoning also doesn't explain the blatant camera work and cutscenes that only work if it's just for titillation.

 

[Mesoian]

It's neglected as half-assed because it is half-assed. If it's valid, why isn't she completely naked? Wouldn't the stockings or bra suffocate her?

And why to the other skulls with her powers wear clothes?

And why does she keep wearing stockings at all?

And what about Scarecrow's brain?!?

 

[Carcetti]

Yes, what Kojima did with Quiet is quite brilliant. Imho, if this was some exhibit on someone's art gallery wall, it probably would've been regarded differently. Now you just ask yourself that: If she wore a full on body suit, but stayed the same character, what wouldve been changed for us all?

Common, negelcting a valid explanation as half-assed just because she shows lots of skin is downright juvenile.

No, what's juvenile is Kojima's style of offering this pandering tee-hee-hee titillation like a 15 year old fap master while putting on the airs of an art auteur. Russ Meyer he's not, and that's not a compliment.

 

[Yeul]

The way she dresses is completely unnecessary. Because of this sort of thing you have people who hold the opinion that covered up/dressing practically = your game is prudish and not for adults. Have a bit more respect for your audience, especially in a medium that is increasingly even keel between genders. I loved Quiet, it's just (spoilers for end the of the game)

Spoiler

kind of sad (especially as a woman, myself) to see such a character finally open the flood gates of personality as she's going off to die. In those moments she's finally not being bombarded by crazy camera angles.

I wasn't the target, but it doesn't make it okay. Repetition of actions set precedents.

 

[CyanideFuse]

Yup

How the hell is it demeaning to women? Im not sure. Its a fictional character.

Does she need to be fully fleshed out and have a explorable personality a girl can relate to before she can be sexy?

This character Quiet isn't sexy. She bears a striking resemblance to a zombie (the eyes are creepy as hell) whilst wearing oversized and well-looked after dentures.

Edit: I should add I did not know of this breathing-through-the-skin excuse, or whatever it is, before Jim's video. I almost had tears in my eyes when he said this. Good stuff.

 

[Tomeru]

We probably wouldn't have struggled to consider her to be a serious character quite so much. I made this comparison in the last Quiet thread, but if Willam Dafoe was dressed up as a clown for the entirety of Apocalypse Now, would that movie have had the same gravitas as it does?

Obviously. We seem to live in an age where clothes make the woman. We haven't really
evolved...

This character Quiet isn't sexy. She bears a striking resemblance to a zombie (the eyes are creepy as hell) whilst wearing oversized and well-looked after dentures.

Limitation of technology man, common.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Yes.

Spoiler

The game makes it pretty clear that she has fallen in love with Big Boss to a really unhealthy degree. She stays in the cage because Boss tells her to, she can leave at any time. She doesn't hurt the OH soldiers who physically and mentally abuse her because it would hurt the Boss's position. She let's Kaz torture her because the Boss is okay with it (Ocelot stops that, not the Boss). And she eventually dies/leaves because she compromises herself in a way that will negatively impact the Boss and outer Heaven. She treats her idea of love like a soldier is thought to accept the aspect of duty, which...is actually super interesting and kind of cool. But it also makes what happens to her completely inconsequential because, hey, people speak Navajo. The boss learns 3 languages from the time the game starts to the time it finishes, learning a fourth so you can communicate with your strongest second/the woman who literally worships you would probably be very easy.

MGS5's narrative and plot are easily the worst it's ever been in the series. I'd like to chock that up to Konami fuckery though, it's not like a 3rd of the game isn't missing.

Wow, I guess Kojima really was done making more MGS games. MGS4's wacky ending made me feel he was running on fumes already. I never played portable ops so I wasn't that interested in playing through this one. Thankfully he's free now, or is he? Dun dun dunnnn

 

[Burger]

And you're not wrong. The bigger issue is that Kojima tried to pull a fast one in saying that we would all be ashamed for daring to criticize this stupid lazy design instead of just owning up to it and being like "yeah, she's a bit of eye candy, but I didn't want to lean into it and make it part of her character, it's a bit half assed..."

While the design is stupid and boring, it's more how the narrative lens forces you to ogle her at every given moment where she's on screen that's the egregious thing. "Yes, I understand that she's basically nude, you can stop shaking her tits in my face now. I get it. Oh 2 more hours of this, okay well...whatever..."

I don't even care that he tried to justify it. The only reason he was forced to do that in the first place was because of all the bleating puritans when she was revealed.

The 'narrative lens' may run over her in a lazy fashion but I don't see how it's much different than other adult entertainment. I'm talking about things like Spartacus, where most female characters were topless at some point, the comics Crossed and Druuna are other examples. It's also strange that some commentary tries to portray anyone who enjoys this sort of stuff as grunting pubescent 13 year old boys, as if anyone who finds a militaristic, good looking bikini wearing woman to be erotic is some sort of monster.

 

[CyanideFuse]

Obviously. We seem to live in an age where clothes make the woman. We haven't really
evolved...


Limitation of technology man, common.

Well I have re-calibrated my sexy gauge and I find these limited-by-technology eyes and teeth very sexy.

 

[SpookyFries]

They probably spent the entire chapter 2 budget on having Stefanie Joosten bending over and rolling around on the floor in a mocap suit

 

[Tomeru]

Well I have re-calibrated my sexy gauge and I find these limited-by-technology eyes and teeth very sexy.

The software update for that was just released, so I understand why it took you a couple of tries.

 

[Bartholomuse]

As others have already pointed out...people don't object to the notion of sexualising characters if the plot or narrative justifies it, or not even that, maybe the character just looks cooler being sexed up (rule of cool is fine sometimes)...it's just that Quiet doesn't make any sense.

Like seriously, her design is artistically bizarre, she's got these combat boots, ripped stockings, long sleeved gloves (!?) and she wears a bikini. It's just mental, and the explanation, as we all know by now, is just groan inducing. Like Jim said if Kojima would have just owned up to it people wouldn't be so disappointed as they are, it's only because he tried to pass Quiet off as something she isn't or was never going to be.

There are so many cool female character designs in MGS (Merrill, Boss, Wolf, Olga, Strangelove) it's a shame to see that Quiet will likely be the last female MGS character that Kojima ever creates, talk about ending on a flat note.

 

[Vlaphor]

. It's also strange that some commentary tries to portray anyone who enjoys this sort of stuff as grunting pubescent 13 year old boys, as if anyone who finds a militaristic, good looking bikini wearing woman to be erotic is some sort of monster.

That is the main thing I hate most about these arguments is the immediate attempts to insult and downplay those who do enjoy fanservice. It doesn't do anything to the argument but put people on edge and it certainly doesn't help win any hearts and minds. You say that if I choose not to like fanservice that I'll be like you...a judgmental, puritan know-it-all. Shit, sign me up!

 

[Mesoian]

Obviously. We seem to live in an age where clothes make the woman. We haven't really
evolved...


Limitation of technology man, common.

 

[Dick Justice]

Yes, what Kojima did with Quiet is quite brilliant. Imho, if this was some exhibit on someone's art gallery wall, it probably would've been regarded differently. Now you just ask yourself that: If she wore a full on body suit, but stayed the same character, what wouldve been changed for us all?

Common, negelcting a valid explanation as half-assed just because she shows lots of skin is downright juvenile.

Obviously. We seem to live in an age where clothes make the woman. We haven't really
evolved...


Limitation of technology man, common.

For Christ's sake, it's "come on", not "common". Unless you're saying that limitations and valid explanations are common?

 

[Platy]

Yes.

Spoiler

The game makes it pretty clear that she has fallen in love with Big Boss to a really unhealthy degree. She stays in the cage because Boss tells her to, she can leave at any time. She doesn't hurt the OH soldiers who physically and mentally abuse her because it would hurt the Boss's position. She let's Kaz torture her because the Boss is okay with it (Ocelot stops that, not the Boss). And she eventually dies/leaves because she compromises herself in a way that will negatively impact the Boss and outer Heaven. She treats her idea of love like a soldier is thought to accept the aspect of duty, which...is actually super interesting and kind of cool. But it also makes what happens to her completely inconsequential because, hey, people speak Navajo. The boss learns 3 languages from the time the game starts to the time it finishes, learning a fourth so you can communicate with your strongest second/the woman who literally worships you would probably be very easy.

MGS5's narrative and plot are easily the worst it's ever been in the series. I'd like to chock that up to Konami fuckery though, it's not like a 3rd of the game isn't missing.

And that considering she is basicaly the only woman in the story.

So basicaly kojima is saying that woman needs to be naked, hot, don't question anything, follow mindless the man they love and be an object.

Also, strange that no memes abou

Spoiler

"friendzone" ever appeared right ? Because that is the biggest case of "friendzone" than anything that I ever heard this word atached too

 

[SprachBrooks]

To be honest as a result of all of this, I doubt Kojima even gives a single shit. It's his style and design decision, no matter how egregious you find it. I actually like how she looks, but I can see why some would have issue with it.

At the end of the day, the primary audience is male and the creator is male, who presumably, is into females so I can see why he'd go for this style for a female character and have all of the other, well established by MGS V, characters not be objectified –– there's not a market for it.

 

[Reishiki]

Put me down as 'woman who gives no shits about Quiet's appearance'. It hasn't reduced my enjoyment of MGSV in the slightest.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why the criticism exists (even if it is predictably done along heterosexual lines), but I won't add my voice to it.

EDIT: Out of curiosity, how many other similar games offer a female avatar to play as? That's been pretty fun.

 

[Doctor Ironic]

Put me down as 'woman who gives no shits about Quiet's appearance'. It hasn't reduced my enjoyment of MGSV in the slightest.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why the criticism exists (even if it is predictably done along heterosexual lines), but I won't add my voice to it.

If you don't want to add your voice then you shouldn't post.

 

[Mesoian]

I don't even care that he tried to justify it. The only reason he was forced to do that in the first place was because of all the bleating puritans when she was revealed.

The 'narrative lens' may run over her in a lazy fashion but I don't see how it's much different than other adult entertainment. I'm talking about things like Spartacus, where most female characters were topless at some point, the comics Crossed and Druuna are other examples. It's also strange that some commentary tries to portray anyone who enjoys this sort of stuff as grunting pubescent 13 year old boys, as if anyone who finds a militaristic, good looking bikini wearing woman to be erotic is some sort of monster.

I mean, Sparticus was a bad show that made it's money billing itself on it's wanton portrayl's of sex and violence. It was intentionally low brow, so much so that it couldn't survive on it's own when it's lead unfortunately passed on. It's in a similar ilk of Black Sails, Birds of Prey, Cleopatra 3030...shows that aim low.

Taking it's problems aside, I don't think the Metal Gear Franchise has ever aimed low, which is why Quiet is such a colossal disappointment. And i'll tell you what, it's much stranger to assume that your entire audience would be fine with Quiet as she is than not, especially when you look at the market share of other games who do bill themselves as cheesecake first, games second. It's as if Kojima thinks that everyone who plays is game is literally going to be okay with having a pair of tits or an ass pressed in our face every 20 minutes, because they are.

It is a strange notion to think that there would be more people than not who would not only be okay with constant titillation for titillation's sake to the point of championing it. But that's what Kojima was shooting for with this one.

Put me down as 'woman who gives no shits about Quiet's appearance'. It hasn't reduced my enjoyment of MGSV in the slightest.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why the criticism exists (even if it is predictably done along heterosexual lines), but I won't add my voice to it.

You literally just did.

Also, strange that no memes abou

Spoiler

"friendzone" ever appeared right ? Because that is the biggest case of "friendzone" than anything that I ever heard this word atached too

Silly Platy.

Women can't be friend zoned.

That's a cage that's reserved for men and men only.

Silly Platy.

Spoiler

You're right though, if only because the script and voice direction for Big Boss is TURRRRRRIBLE

 

[Vlaphor]

If you don't want to add your voice then you shouldn't post.

If you don't like the game, then don't buy it.

 

[d9b]

If you don't want to add your voice then you shouldn't post.

I think you misunderstood that post. Read it again

 

[Doctor Ironic]

If you don't like the game, then don't buy it.

I do like the game! I can just like something while still criticizing aspects of it. Almost like that's the basis of criticism...

 

[Dice//]

Put me down as 'woman who gives no shits about Quiet's appearance'. It hasn't reduced my enjoyment of MGSV in the slightest.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why the criticism exists (even if it is predictably done along heterosexual lines), but I won't add my voice to it.

EDIT: Out of curiosity, how many other similar games offer a female avatar to play as? That's been pretty fun.

To the underlined: Ummm.

Tho the edit: This HAS been a great trend and I hope more games do it.

To be honest as a result of all of this, I doubt Kojima even gives a single shit. It's his style and design decision, no matter how egregious you find it. I actually like how she looks, but I can see why some would have issue with it.

At the end of the day, the primary audience is male and the creator is male, who presumably, is into females so I can see why he'd go for this style for a female character and have all of the other, well established by MGS V, characters not be objectified –– there's not a market for it.

I agree, but it doesn't mean there can't be commentary worth criticizing. Women have had a far longer history of sexual exploitation, so when people make a fuss you have to see that sometimes it's the small things and small "he should make what he wants, no question" attitudes that might play a small part in why women can't fight the status quo.

And stop me if I'm wrong, but I feel these "He shouldn't be censored" comments are more of a veiled "I LIKE THE TITTIES" comment. x)

If you don't like the game, then don't buy it.

We need a Gaf FAQ for silly responses like this and explain why they're silly.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

The stockings are dumb. Just the pants to her military fatigues with the bikini top would've been better, or have her wearing what was left of her

Spoiler

certainly burned outfit

from early on, that way it could be revealing, yet not completely goofy looking. I fully understand and agree with the notion of how sexualization of a character can undermine them. However, I still wouldn't roll my eyes or feel stupid telling my girlfriend that I'll change Quiet's outfit as soon as I get a decent option if I had the option, or if her default didn't look outright goofy (bloody, silver and gold doesn't work, especially the latter two which were used to kill someone in Goldfinger and wouldn't allow someone to breathe through their skin). Even if the sexualization were justified/tasteful/appropriate, it just doesn't look cool enough.

Would've preferred there be no direct explanation for nudity either. Anything related to her appearance should've involved presenting the player the option to give her a real uniform like any other (kidnapped) soldier you take in.

 

[GeoGonzo]

Probably my new favourite Jimquisition, flawless from the disclaimer at the beginning to the MadMax scandal at the end.

Honestly, fans refusing to see flaws in the games they love are only holding those games back. They often argue "but that doesn't matter because this other thing was fantastic", but ironically it only DOES matter for the same reason! Nobody cares half as much if a bad game is buggy, sexist or dumb. We mind when it happens to GOOD games!

 

[Shaanyboi]

I think the implication he's making though is people calling out against it are doing so with the intent of it being done less and/or not at all, and thus by proxy essentially stating it "should not" be allowed. Are they outright calling for a boycott/removal? No. But the end results would arguably be the same.

Like, why call out something stupid publicly if for no other reason than to attempt to lessen or remove the stupid thing?

I mean Quiet's design is fucking dumb, people can call it stupid/demeaning all they want, but if no one is saying it's not allowed, then really all the complaining amounts to nothing (in relation to MGS5, not the overall general struggle of female representation).

Is there anyone here who thinks that Quiet's design could have, in fact, been justified somehow in a narrative sense? Would it make it better if it was?

People are against it because not only is Quiet one of the few female characters in the game, she's used as a gratuitous sex object, all while wrapped in a narrative that tries to present her with a straight face, as if somehow the design is a result of the story rather than the other way around.

Sure, it's allowed to exist. But it's an utter falacy to think that this is anything other than female objectification for the sake of it. And the idea that Kojima attempts to paint as anything more while Quiet flops around on the ground with the camera leeringly capturing every angle it can of her chest ajd ass is belittling of his audience. In 2015, crass bullshit like this that goes unquestioned is problematic. Something like Bayonetta knowingly playing into the main character's sexual identity, all the while being as silly as possible isn't an issue. Metal Gear unrelentingly objectifying one of its few female characters as a silent sex-object, while also subjecting her to a violent attempted sexual assault? That's a problem.