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[Crypt]

Just don't think that adding an extra boss-fight against sahalanthropus at the end would make much difference.

It really won't. People are acting like there is so much cut content, but so far this is the only thing that we definitively know was cut. The chapter 3 peace could have just been a rearrangement of title names. And really, what would a 3rd fight with ST-84 have brought to the game? Not much really. Sure it would have been a new area to explore, but it would have just been Africa-esque, and we don't know how big the level would have been.

I'm not sure the game was rushed either. I think it was just badly paced and poorly written, and no amount of extra content is going to make up for an otherwise luke-warm story.

 

[[HP]]

Anyone disappointed there's no interior sneaking missions? There's a couple of interiors here in there, but they're tiny and they look beautiful. I think it'd be a really nice break of pace to have a few interior areas in the game, some corridors and rooms.

 

[Unknown One]

the gameplay is great, but is really repetitive for such a long game. What a shame. Everytime I load this game up it gets more boring tbh.

I find the mechanics a waste. The reason why is the lack of proper boss battles. To me, boss battles in mgs is where you fully utilize the gameplay mechanics in MGS, especially on the hardest difficulty.

 

[Banana Aeon]

The more I think about it, the less I think Liquid needed to be involved at all in this game.

Liquid's presence feels more like cheap fanservice, rather than integral to the plot. All he does is complicate the plot further, and create more questions.

 

[Deckard Chapel]

I feel lied to regarding this game. Both by Konami and by Kojima.

Kojima has said that it's everything he's always wanted to do with Metal Gear - no regrets, etc.

Then why cut content? Why remove some of the outfits? I love the ones that are included - but more would be an improvement! A playable ending that resolves the Eli story arc would be appreciated, since that is really the only plot thread that is left by the abrupt "ending" of the game.

Also the "boss fights" are jaw-droppingly lame. There are only 5 of them and they are forgettable at best. That Konami PR guy claiming they are some of the best in the series was total PR bullshit - even Yong Yea oversold these in his impressions video.

Kojima needs to rally the team and get busy creating DLC to put back all the things that were removed. I would like to know that I bought a complete game and that I didn't waste years of my life getting excited for 95% of an experience.

*sigh*

 

[Love Deterrence]

David Hayter referring to MGSV as "New Coke" is about as good a description I can think of for this game.

 

[brau]

the gameplay is great, but is really repetitive for such a long game. What a shame. Everytime I load this game up it gets more boring tbh.

aye aye. There is nothing to play with... the world doesn't react, or feel like a living breathing environment.

This is a big one for me: I think the main story missions needed a cutscene to gameplay ratio similar to GZ. That would have really helped the story feel more meaty.

Yep. I think GZ had an amazing narrative and presentation. Even in the side ops.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

I find the mechanics a waste. The reason why is the lack of proper boss battles. To me, boss battles in mgs is where you fully utilize the gameplay mechanics in MGS, especially on the hardest difficulty.

When it comes to MGS3 and The End I agree. Shame there isnt something like that in this

 

[Cubed]

I think you need to let go.

Is an extra boss fight or two really going to make any difference? Does how the English strain of vocal-cord parasite virus get destroyed really matter? Its a mcguffin.

I'm really having a hard time figuring out exactly what people think they are missing out on.

If you were expecting a sudden BB heel-turn, you just fell into Kojima's misdirection - the key theme of the MG saga is that there is no absolute enemy, its always relative.

The story as it stands accomplishes what it needs to. Some people just don't like it, and the way its presented and structured in order to support the base-building online metagame.

And that's fine.

Just don't think that adding an extra boss-fight against sahalanthropus at the end would make much difference.

**Ding Ding Ding**

I mean, I still want Mission 51 for gameplay purposes, but really, the game told the story it needed to tell. Did it miss some opportunities to be much better? Sure. However, the story is what it is and basically told the story that it needed to tell. Some people just aren't happy with the execution. I mean, by the end of this game we have big boss basically becoming like the CIA and using a soldier just like he was used in MGS 3, showing his full progression into "big dick," we know the origins of the nanomachines, and we now know how BB survived MG1. Add in the meta "you are Big Boss" stuff and I think the story hit the notes it needed to... it just missed out on some really cool possibilities, like showing G. Fox, showing young sniper Wolf, taking us back to Camp Omega, and remaking MG1 as an epilogue mission.

 

[Zomba13]

If it's okay, I did want to ask a couple of smaller questions for those out there with an answer.
01) Are you able to unlock Hospital Boss as a head option and/or attire?no
02) How do you obtain the finalized Outer Heaven emblem? I just obtained an older variant for Mission 45 on B-rank.You get the Skull and background from S ranking (and maybe doing both tasks?) Mission 46.
03) Am I correct in assuming all supernatural elements pre-MGS2 are the work of parasites, particularly Psycho Mantis and Vulcan Raven?Mantis and Raven are still (so far) legit magic/psychic. MGS3 bosses were parasites.

Answers for what I could answer.

 

[MMarston]

**Ding Ding Ding**

I mean, I still want Mission 51 for gameplay purposes, but really, the game told the story it needed to tell. Did it miss some opportunities to be much better? Sure. However, the story is what it is and basically told the story that it needed to tell. Some people just aren't happy with the execution. I mean, by the end of this game we have big boss basically becoming like the CIA and using a soldier just like he was used in MGS 3, showing how he's speed is full progression into big dick, we know the origins of the nanomachines, and we now know how BB survived MG1. Add in the meta "you are Big Boss" stuff and I think the story hit the notes it needed to... it just missed out on some really cool possibilities, like showing G. Fox, showing young sniper Wolf, taking us back to Camp Omega, and remaking MG1 as an epilogue mission.

When you think about it really, a lot of the stuff we're frustrated about is execution rather than the actual material itself. As someone else mentioned, MGSV is a shell of a good MGS story but without the filling.

 

[brau]

David Hayter referring to MGSV as "New Coke" is about as good a description I can think of for this game.

I don't get it. Is this referring to him being salty to not being in the game?

 

[Deckard Chapel]

When it comes to MGS3 and The End I agree. Shame there isnt something like that in this

The hyping of Quiet being the equivalent to "The End" in this game is like comparing a tricycle to a Lamborghini and saying that they are the same thing.

The more I think about how things turned out with MGSV:TPP, the more disappointed and depressed I get about them.

This game feels rushed - how is that even possible with a game that has been in the planning/development stages since 2008?

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

This game feels rushed - how is that even possible with a game that has been in the planning/development stages since 2008?

Bad time management, apparently Kojima is a super perfectionist and throws out tons of shit and Konami just got fed up.

 

[Cubed]

Also the "boss fights" are jaw-droppingly lame. There are only 5 of them and they are forgettable at best. That Konami PR guy claiming they are some of the best in the series was total PR bullshit - even Yong Yea oversold these in his impressions video.

*sigh*

Opinions. For instance, I would put the two sniper battles and the battle with Sahelanthropus up there as some of the most thrilling boss fights in MGS history, and all three really take advantage of the open world structure of the game.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Also how did Psycho Mantis go from a cipher with no will of his own to an adult man with autonomy who likes showing off his powers

 

[Cubed]

Also how did Psycho Mantis go from a cipher with no will of his own to an adult man with autonomy who likes showing off his powers

Puberty.
Actually, I say that jokingly but it probably is the best explanation. Over time he just learned to channel his power better.

 

[v0yce]

Also, one thing I am curious about.

Ocelot and Miller take sides at the end of MGS5. Miller chooses David and trains him to defeat the Big Bosses, Ocelot chooses Liquid to help him defeat Miller and preserve the age of Big Boss.

Everything up through someone killing Miller (either Ocelot or Liquid) makes sense with that, but then Ocelot double-crossing Liquid to help Solidus take down the patriots doesn't. If he looped Liquid in, I am pretty sure he'd be down with the plan to take down the people that ruined his childhood and created him to be a failed clone of Big Boss.

The more I think about it, the less I think Liquid needed to be involved at all in this game.

I'm not sure I see how Miller eventually turns on Bluff Boss.

 

[fastmower]

a damn good writeup

This would have been a MUCH better game. You should tweet this to Kojima as constructive criticism.

 

[Clear]

It really won't. People are acting like there is so much cut content, but so far this is the only thing that we definitively know was cut. The chapter 3 peace could have just been a rearrangement of title names. And really, what would a 3rd fight with ST-84 have brought to the game? Not much really. Sure it would have been a new area to explore, but it would have just been Africa-esque, and we don't know how big the level would have been.

I'm not sure the game was rushed either. I think it was just badly paced and poorly written, and no amount of extra content is going to make up for an otherwise luke-warm story.

Gotta be honest, this whole thing reminds of the uproar over the changed lighting model in Dark Souls II, where people were acting like it being cut-down somehow ruined the whole experience... I really hated that because it really distorted the conversation into being predominantly about what the game isn't, as opposed to what it is.

Some people are disappointed its not the sort of metal gear game that wanted, Ok. But lets not lose sight of how ridiculously fucking good the gameplay is, how much content there is, and yeah, how strong some of the cut-scenes are - both in terms of dramatic impact and spectacle.

Seeing a thread this negative about a game that is so good is shocking to me.

 

[Alienous]

Also how did Psycho Mantis go from a cipher with no will of his own to an adult man with autonomy who likes showing off his powers

He made friends.

Think of him like Michael Jackson.

 

[aember]

Opinions. For instance, I would put the two sniper battles and the battle with Sahelanthropus up there as some of the most thrilling boss fights in MGS history, and all three really take advantage of the open world structure of the game.

Definitely opinions. For me, both versions of Quiet's fight were pretty boring, winnable with a sniper rifle without even detaching from the cover you start at. Sahelanthropus was pretty underwhelming too, but that might've been because I had the most powerful rocket launcher on my back, so it was really just a "sprint, wait for glowing weakspot, shoot, repeat".

All the previous MGS games I've had to call up the codec and get some tips after failing the fights 5+ times in a row. In MGSV I'm sitting at 180 hours and I don't think I've died in a boss fight even once.

 

[Cubed]

The hyping of Quiet being the equivalent to "The End" in this game is like comparing a tricycle to a Lamborghini and saying that they are the same thing.

This just seems flat out incorrect. What else did she need to be/do to be the equivalent of The End? Be an old, bald man with googly eyes? She was a sniper in an open area. There really isn't anything that different or cool to The End other than his character design and the console time clock gimmick.

 

[Slaythe]

Is that Tom Cruise ?

It's ironic that I actually made my Ahab look like Tom.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I'm not sure I see how Miller eventually turns on Bluff Boss.

Anger at being betrayed is pretty much Miller's one character trait in this game. He only played along with Venom until he felt like he had a plan to take him down.

This plan being...go to the Alaska wilderness and hang out there until David comes to train??

 

[Banana Aeon]

Repost.

Love it.

 

[Soulflarz]

Anyone disappointed there's no interior sneaking missions? There's a couple of interiors here in there, but they're tiny and they look beautiful. I think it'd be a really nice break of pace to have a few interior areas in the game, some corridors and rooms.

Yes. It's why I liked the code talker mansion a bit more than I should have.

 

[Rockk]

Anyways... that is some of the ideas i was discussing and wanted to share. I am prbly full of it. what do you guys think?

TL;DR i just want things to happen.

Pretty terrible ideas tbh. You're making an overly ambitious game even more ambitious. In a world where the story resolved coherently then yeah that stuff would be nice but adding those things wouldn't make people any less upset.

I know I'm one of the few people that was happy with this game. Obviously the story was not resolved and that's disappointing but Chapter 1 was pretty great and the beats that the game wanted to go through would have been great. I see the potential and honestly, that's good enough considering we got a 8-8.5 game.

I'd be curious how much of the 80 million was spent on the creation of the Fox Engine, if any at all. I do wish we could have gotten that glorious Fox Engine Contra or Castlevania.

 

[Cubed]

Definitely opinions. For me, both versions of Quiet's fight were pretty boring, winnable with a sniper rifle without even detaching from the cover you start at. Sahelanthropus was pretty underwhelming too, but that might've been because I had the most powerful rocket launcher on my back, so it was really just a "sprint, wait for glowing weakspot, shoot, repeat".

All the previous MGS games I've had to call up the codec and get some tips after failing the fights 5+ times in a row. In MGSV I'm sitting at 180 hours and I don't think I've died in a boss fight even once.

I guess that's all it is: expectations. See, I really appreciated the fact that I didn't die in the boss fights but I felt like I really had to work my ass off not to die. So I guess it just depends on your load out or whatever, but I liked that I didn't have to stop the game and jump into a Codec, but rather, in real-time, have to sit down and go through my weapons trying to figure out the best way to take out the bosses and then beat all of them with just a tiny bit of life left. I felt like the bosses really utilized the open world and utilized the skill of the player, rather than requiring some obtuse, odd trick you had to use in order to beat them.

 

[AuthenticM]

Repost

Damn. That's pretty good. It certainly has a better structure than what we got. And I like how you manage the plot twist of Venom not being Big Boss.

Now I wish this is what we got.

 

[Zomba13]

Gotta be honest, this whole thing reminds of the uproar over the changed lighting model in Dark Souls II, where people were acting like it being cut-down somehow ruined the whole experience... I really hated that because it really distorted the conversation into being predominantly about what the game isn't, as opposed to what it is.

Some people are disappointed its not the sort of metal gear game that wanted, Ok. But lets not lose sight of how ridiculously fucking good the gameplay is, how much content there is, and yeah, how strong some of the cut-scenes are - both in terms of dramatic impact and spectacle.

Seeing a thread this negative about a game that is so good is shocking to me.

I dunno, with DS2 the lighting change did change the game from what it (appeared) to be to what it was. The trailers implied that you would need to use the torch to see better and there would be the trade off between seeing shit or defending with a shield.

DS2 is still a good game though but the faults it has (excluding the change of lighting and the pointless torch system) are still there even if the lighting was as advertised.

Same with MGSV, it's a good game but even if the shit wasn't cut or spoiled in trailers it would still have terrible bosses and very little story.

 

[ponpo]

This just seems flat out incorrect. What else did she need to be/do to be the equivalent of The End? Be an old, bald man with googly eyes? She was a sniper in an open area. There really isn't anything that different or cool to The End other than his character design and the console time clock gimmick.

While I think The End is maybe the most overrated battle in MGS, it's different and better than Quiet. You can actually sneak up on him and hold him up. Automatically cooler than Quiet.

 

[Dick Justice]

So did Biggu Bossu just use stealth camo on his beard or something?

 

[MMarston]

So did Biggu Bossu just use stealth camo on his beard or something?

His barber must have been from San Andreas.

 

[potatohead]

Really like the posts in here.

I also have major problems with the structure of the gameplay and narrative delivery in Phantom Pain. It just feels unfinished and horrible paced after the Quiet mission........

The best part of the game for me was definitely the early parts in Afghanistan, until the Quiet encounter, that was really well paced and gradually building up the gameplay mechanics for a great boss encounter. But after that?

All the bosses flat out suck...... the gameplay becomes repetitive.... and there's only like a few memorable sneaking missions. Like... what.. the... hell.

Most of the game just involves extracting a bunch of completely no-name characters that have nothing to do with anything, and it's just tedious filler content lol......

As much as the core gameplay mechanics of this game are well done, the horrible pacing and mission structure just completely breaks the feeling of the game.

This game would be so much better if it was structured and paced as well as Peace Walker, which despite being on 100x less powerful hardware, it is the better game IMO.

In some ways I don't even want to think of this as a MGS game. It feels more like the best Ubisoft game ever made than a great MGS game.

I still very much enjoyed the game, the horrible pace and story delivery notwithstanding (though I did like elements of the story), but I'm mainly disappointed that if it was built as well as Peace Walker was this would be one of the best games ever made.

There's so many things I love about the game, like D-Horse, and D-Dog, and the overall gameplay mechanics, and the structure of almost all of the levels in Afghanistan, and the sneaking mission to rescue Code Talker...... as well as the Tank Unit destroying Side Ops which were amazing and gave lots of gameplay options.

But there's just so much wrong with the game as well..... ugh.. Just thinking about the different things..... bullet Sponge bosses THREE times that play pretty much exactly the same? What.. the... hell.... Peace Walker alone had infinitely more fun bosses, even though they were extremely easy, they were interesting and different and fun!

 

[Unknown One]

My favorite boss fight is the Harrier on Extreme-Euro Extreme. You have to utilize cover and invincibility frames. The kick ass music made it even better.

 

[Cubed]

While I think The End is maybe the most overrated battle in MGS, it's different and better than Quiet. You can actually sneak up on him and hold him up. Automatically cooler than Quiet.

You can sneak up on Quiet. I didn't do it but I know of a few other people on here have posted about it. I don't think you can hold her up though, so I will give you that. She also doesn't fall asleep and start snoring if you haven't found her within five minutes.

Still, to be completely serious, I think she's pretty much on equal footing with The End. I definitely like her setting better, and then the setting against the Bikini Babes in the forest is like fighting 4 The Ends in the mist. Love It!

 

[brau]

Repost.

Closure.

Great read. I think the presentation deffo works better with this structure.

IMO. i would've tackled TPP with a lot of nightmares and psychological oppression. Illusions and nightmares coming to life as you battle through the game. Triggers that make you feel the troubles of BB.

The past haunts you, the present wages war on you, and all the potential of connections of the future are there for exploration.

I kinda wish the game took the whole psychological downfall of BB seriously. Instead of not even addressing it.

 

[dc89]

So did Biggu Bossu just use stealth camo on his beard or something?

I really don't see how this is meant to be Snake. I know they couldn't give the game away before it even begun but it doesn't look like Snake to me.

 

[Alienous]

Gotta be honest, this whole thing reminds of the uproar over the changed lighting model in Dark Souls II, where people were acting like it being cut-down somehow ruined the whole experience... I really hated that because it really distorted the conversation into being predominantly about what the game isn't, as opposed to what it is.

Some people are disappointed its not the sort of metal gear game they wanted, Ok. But lets not lose sight of how ridiculously fucking good the gameplay is, how much content there is, and yeah, how strong some of the cut-scenes are - both in terms of dramatic impact and spectacle.

Seeing a thread this negative about a game that is so good is shocking to me.

Well ... yeah.

Reception is expectation and actuality. The gameplay is fantastic, yes, but a lot of people didn't get into Metal Gear Solid because of the gameplay. There's less of an emphasis on the things that made Metal Gear unique (like the heavy narrative), a feeling of broken promises ('Missing Link' yada-yada) and incomplete elements that are easy to be annoyed about (a missing final episode, which has the game end on a whimper rather than a roar).

MGSV is a fantastic game, I don't think you'll see anyone saying otherwise. But the near flawless execution of certain elements makes other elements that are not as well constructed more noticeably so; MGSV is a 40+ hour game that feels unfinished, it's a weird situation. Another reason for the negativity is probably the game ending weakly, and that being the impression of MGSV that people enter the thread with.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I beat Quiet in two hits. It was cool that my dumb idea about supply drops worked but she was ultimately no threat.

Everyone else I knew just ran up and punched her.

The End was a hour-and-a-half long game of cat and mouse over a huge environment with a character that could be tracked by multiple means but none of them particularly easy. They couldn't do that in MGS5 because they can't be sure what you brought with you on the loadout, so Quiet had to be visible by default equipment like the binoculars and then you track her until she moves. Bonus points if you have D-Dog who just goes "Yo she's right there."

It's like The End in the same way that the Vulcan Raven toy in MGS2's tanker was like the Vulcan Raven fight in MGS1.

 

[brau]

Pretty terrible ideas tbh. You're making an overly ambitious game even more ambitious. In a world where the story resolved coherently then yeah that stuff would be nice but adding those things wouldn't make people any less upset.

I know I'm one of the few people that was happy with this game. Obviously the story was not resolved and that's disappointing but Chapter 1 was pretty great and the beats that the game wanted to go through would have been great. I see the potential and honestly, that's good enough considering we got a 8-8.5 game.

I'd be curious how much of the 80 million was spent on the creation of the Fox Engine, if any at all. I do wish we could have gotten that glorious Fox Engine Contra or Castlevania.

Not really. The game can be scaled down by at least 40% already, and not much would be missed as far as space and scope.

All i am talking about is scenarios where the game interacts with you, opposed to you always having to get the game to react.

I am someone that loves the game for what it is. But also know that the game has flaws, and even when some things didn't go resolved, the experience overall didn't quite felt like a MGS game. GZ i felt was a better package in this respect. Even when TPP has the obvious superior gameplay.

The FOX engine helped reduce costs i guess.. at least from what Kojima said. So who knows. All i know is that the scope of the game and the money comes from the ridiculous notion that the game should be in old gen and current gen plus pc. Current gen only game, without worrying about 2 other skus will help significantly. Leaving a lot of budget to tackle things that are important.

 

[potatohead]

My favorite boss fight is the Harrier on Extreme-Euro Extreme. You have to utilize cover and invincibility frames. The kick ass music made it even better.

Amen. I used to be able to fight the Harrier on Extreme and Euro-Extreme easily. I have to re-learn those jedi ways

MGS2 had some of the craziest bosses, and the scale of them were all so different.

From small scale battles like with Vamp or Olga, to huge scale ones against the Harrier or Metal Gear Rays or the shootout in Arsenal Gear.

Looking back at MGS2, MGS3, and Peace Walker.... I can safely say I prefer all of those games over MGSV TPP without question.

MGSV TPP may be the most technically impressive MGS game ever made, by a massive margin. But it's also one of the weakest games in the series IMO.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

The End can fall asleep and you can find him by finding the sound of his snoring with the Directional Microphone and that is cool.

You can also catch his bird and he will fly to him.

You can also just run around with no camo and trigger him shooting at you.

If you get shot and look at where the dart is in your body you can also find him judging from where the shot came from.

The End is amazing.

 

[ponpo]

I beat Quiet in two hits. It was cool that my dumb idea about supply drops worked but she was ultimately no threat.

Everyone else I knew just ran up and punched her.

The End was a hour-and-a-half long game of cat and mouse over a huge environment with a character that could be tracked by multiple means but none of them particularly easy. They couldn't do that in MGS5 because they can't be sure what you brought with you on the loadout, so Quiet had to be visible by default equipment like the binoculars and then you track her until she moves. Bonus points if you have D-Dog who just goes "Yo she's right there."

It's like The End in the same way that the Vulcan Raven toy in MGS2's tanker was like the Vulcan Raven fight in MGS1.

You can CQC Quiet?

 

[Soulflarz]

You can CQC Quiet?

TIL?

Wait. I tried :/

 

[ShockingAlberto]

You can CQC Quiet?

Bionic Punch, not CQC.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Also, one thing I am curious about.

Ocelot and Miller take sides at the end of MGS5. Miller chooses David and trains him to defeat the Big Bosses, Ocelot chooses Liquid to help him defeat Miller and preserve the age of Big Boss.

Everything up through someone killing Miller (either Ocelot or Liquid) makes sense with that, but then Ocelot double-crossing Liquid to help Solidus take down the patriots doesn't. If he looped Liquid in, I am pretty sure he'd be down with the plan to take down the people that ruined his childhood and created him to be a failed clone of Big Boss.

The more I think about it, the less I think Liquid needed to be involved at all in this game.

I think you misunderstood the ending, they weren't talking about the children at the end, they were talking about siding with Big Boss or Punished Snake. Ocelot was always using Liquid.

 

[potatohead]

Not really. The game can be scaled down by at least 40% already, and not much would be missed as far as space and scope.

All i am talking about is scenarios where the game interacts with you, opposed to you always having to get the game to react.

I am someone that loves the game for what it is. But also know that the game has flaws, and even when some things didn't go resolved, the experience overall didn't quite felt like a MGS game. GZ i felt was a better package in this respect. Even when TPP has the obvious superior gameplay.

The FOX engine helped reduce costs i guess.. at least from what Kojima said. So who knows. All i know is that the scope of the game and the money comes from the ridiculous notion that the game should be in old gen and current gen plus pc. Current gen only game, without worrying about 2 other skus will help significantly. Leaving a lot of budget to tackle things that are important.

Very much agree with the idea that the game scope could've been exactly the same in a 50% shorter campaign/story missions.

There were just too many filler content things, and also weaker main missions... like the awful bosses besides Quiet.

 

[Xpike]

people saying that Zero was good all along make me laugh, he's not a one dimensional villian who can be defined as good or evil. Even in the Truth tapes he's still fully willing to go with the AI program, to, in his words "make the world become one".

And my favorite fight is probably Liquid Snake at the top of REX.